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I have been ask several times in this forum by Bill Gray, "If you don't believe in god, then why are you in a religion forum?" I would like to tell you all the answer to that, but first I have to give the back story. I'm sorry if I end up with a long post but this might take a minute. Smiler

Ok first I was a believer. I was born and raised in a very conservative COC household. My grandfather was an elder at the church we attended. My uncle was a deacon. Everyone in my family attended church. After church on Sundays we would go to my grandmothers house and have a big Sunday dinner as a family. When I say all I mean ALL. My family is huge. Sunday dinner was 25 people all aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents. I loved this time. I loved god! I felt secure in my family and in my life. Well sorta. I had the nights as a child when I prayed myself to sleep begging god not to send me to hell to burn forever cause I just couldn't seem to help doing something wrong almost everyday. Things that kids do, such as fight with my siblings, or disobeying my parents. I knew these things were a sin in gods eyes and I feared that I would fall asleep without getting forgivness for what I had done and then die in my sleep and suffer ****ation for eternity. It was pretty heavy for a 7 year old.

As I grew into a teenager I took part in the youth programs and went door to door many summers inviting people to meetings, VBS or the occasional singing. I loved god and the church. I worried constantly about the people I knew who were not living the christian life. I was so afraid for them. I prayed many many times a day. For everything from "please help me be a better person" to "help me pass this math test" I believed it did something. I felt it in my heart, I felt comfort when I prayed. By this time in my life I felt like I knew god. I knew what he wanted from me and I knew that if I lived my life like he instructed and as his example in jesus I would someday go to heaven and be with him. I was for the most part happy. Sure I had questions but I also felt like the questions I had would be made clear to me as I grew and all would be ok.

As I grew older and become an adult. I also started reading more and more of the bible. As a child I had read the bible, well I had read passages and certain scripture that pertained to that weeks bible study, but mostly I just listened to the preacher, and my family for guidance. What I discovered was that instead of answering the questions I had it only raised more questions. I decided I needed to join a weekly bible study class held at our church every Wednesday before services began. This was meant to be a way for christians to help each other get a better understanding of gods word. For me...it just made me have more questions. Questions no one seemed to want to answer or could answer. What about the dinosaurs? What about fossils that were being found dating back farther than the bible tells us the earth is old? Why would god condemn his children to eternal suffering for doing things that he surly knew we would do. He made us after all and he knows all things , right? I kept reading and studying. My heart was open and full of love for god. I truly wanted to be closer to him.

I got married. I was happy with my life and wanted to be a mother as soon as possible. Some people want to be a fireman when they grow up, others a policeman, a doctor, a lawyer, I wanted nothing more than to be a mother. To me that had to be one of the greatest and best jobs in the world. I was still struggling with understanding what I knew to be fact and what the bible was telling me about the world around me, but I never lost faith that if I just kept praying and believing in god that I would soon understand. I started researching the origins of christianity and the bible. I wanted to know all I could about it. I wanted to see if maybe somethings had been "lost in translation" so to speak and that was where the answers were. However this had the opposite effect. The more I dug for answers the more I realized that what I had always believed was not exactly true. I found that bronze age MEN had written the bible and that they had left some books out over the years and that many kings and rulers had adjusted it to fit their own agendas. This did not make me stop believing in god. This did not make me question his love for me or my love for him. I knew that god was with me and he was going to help me find his true word. All I had to do was keep praying and believing and looking for what surly he had provided me to help me understand. Then the greatest moment of my life arrived, a beautiful baby boy!

When people tell you "just wait till you have a child of your own." they are not kidding. You just can't describe to anyone who has not had children yet the overwhelming feeling of love and protectiveness you have for this child. I held him in my arms that night in the hospital and knew in an instant I would die for him, I would kill for him, I would sacrifice everything I had to give him a safe and secure life. I then prayed to god thanking him for a healthy baby, and thats when a light went off in my head. It was as if suddenly I did understand more in that one instant. I had been taught my whole life that god created us and we were his children, he loved us like a parent loves his child. So how could he condemn us to suffer eternity if we disobeyed him? I knew looking down at that sweet baby that nothing, I mean NOTHING that he ever did would ever change my love for him. If he grew up to be the worst serial killer the world had ever seen I would be the only person that would still go visit him in prison and beg with all I had to not put him to death. But the bible told me that I was god's child and he loved me as such, yet if I did something like had sex outside or marriage, or stole something, or became a drunkard, and did not have true remorse for it he would send me straight to hell. He would say "I know you not" Suddenly, I had the very real feeling that if this part of the bible was wrong then what about the rest. Because I now knew what it felt like to be a parent and love a child and there was no way god could have so easily let his son die on the cross or could punishes so severely for human mistakes and sins. Could he?

Something was terribly wrong, so I prayed even harder. I begged him to help me understand the feelings I was having. Help me see what he wanted me to do. I came to a point where I believed that maybe the problem was that I was not a part of the right religious group. Maybe the answers lay with the baptist or the Methodist. So I started attending a Baptist church. I once again joined a study group. At the same time I was getting more and more interested in science. I had always been drawn to it in school but as I got older I wanted to know more and more about the world around me. Maybe it was because I had become a mother and I wanted to have answers ready when my son ask the age old question " Mommy why is the sky blue" but I started reading science books and articles. Everything that I could get my hands on. This is when it really all started to tear apart. I started to understand how and why certain things happen to our earth, such as earthquakes and erupting volcanoes. I started to realize that primitive bronze age (and even farther back than that) men didn't have the knowledge I had on how or why these things happen. They could only attribute these things to punishment from god. I understood that. Made sense to me. Because I was really understanding how we as humans thirst for knowledge of how the world works around us. We really don't like the unknown. We are obsessed with finding the answers to all the why's and how's. This insight still did not shake my belief in god. It did however start to completely tear down my complete belief in the bible. I no longer thought of it as the word of god. It was man made, man translated and added to and taken away from so many times it could no longer be considered a reliable source for what god really wanted us to know. I felt like there had to be answers to my questions and maybe just maybe god had given me science to understand him better. So I stopped going to church. I just felt that it was just a bunch of people unwilling to look farther than a book that so obviously had been written and corrupted by men that it had become unbelievable.

I say all this for a reason. I want you all to know that I did not stop believing in the bible easily. I did not give up on god with out a fight. I wanted it all to be true. I didn't want to accept that my whole life could have been based on a myth, a fable, something primitive man came up with in the absence of true science. I had at this point started to believe in what I called "My god". My god was real. He had been there for me. He comforted me. He would never want me to suffer for him. He was understanding of the person I was and would not condemn me so easily. My god was great. My god was not the god of the bible however. That god was cruel, egotistical, and vain. That god only wanted admiration and blind faith without understanding. I could not believe in that god any longer. I had my god and I could be happy with that.

Then came the internet. I have an insatiable appetite for knowledge. The internet was like having a library in my house. I read and read. On every subject that interested me. I would start thinking about near death experiences and that would lead to weeks or months of digging all over the internet for studies and information about the subject. Had some people died and seen the other side? However I soon began to understand that the brain is a very powerful thing. The lack of oxygen to the brain can produce very real out of body feelings and hallucinations. There have been Dr. that have even developed ways of reproducing these encounters with god in laboratory studies. So I started to question all the so called experiences people have had where they said god spoke to them, or they truly felt his presence. Maybe the brain had just produced these feeling to help that person cope with whatever they couldn't understand or maybe it was just a neuron gone a little haywire. As I said the brain is very powerful. Then I started really studying evolution. I wanted to know everything I could about how we became the humans we are today. I knew there were other human like beings here on earth at one time that no longer existed. Where did they go? Why did they die out? Still through all of this I tried to hold on to my god. Surly he created even these beings. Over time it became harder and harder to reconcile my belief in a god in the face of all that science can prove. It was very very hard for me to face. I remember being afraid to even entertain the idea that there was no god. I felt that if I even let myself think about the possibility that I would be somehow going to a place of no return. I wasn't ready for that. I needed my god. I needed to have that peace that someone was looking out for me and my children. I needed to feel that when things got really tough I could pray to my god and he would give me peace and I could believe that he would help me. I also felt alone. All alone in my beliefs. As I said in the beginning I come from a very christian family. No one in my family thought as I did. They all still attended church every week. They were already concerned that I did not attend church anymore. However as long as I still believed in god then they could accept that. What if they knew I was losing that faith too? How could I live in a society such as the one here in the south and not be ostracized for not believing in god? I truly was afraid to admit that I doubted the existence of god. It was already so difficult when people would ask "what church do you attend?" and when I answered none, the look of disapproval and concern for my soul would always follow. I was working in sales by this time and most of my customers were christian. A good many of them would invite me to attend their church. How could I honestly tell them that I no longer believed as they did and not lose money on a sale. I had tried it and had seen how fast they ran from me as if I was satan and I wanted to eat their children. I started to realize that I live in a society that was not very welcoming to me. It is hard to be a non believer in the south. It is not easy to let go of something you have believed all your life. I truly felt alone but more and more sure that I was not the one that was living blindly. I began to seek out others like me. Others who had made this journey. This forum has not be the only place I have looked but it has been a very informative place and has helped me connect with other like minded people in my community. I accidentally found it really. I came here to comment on a local school topic. As I was looking through the other forum topics I saw a post by Deep Fat, who used to post on here quite regularly. H was not afraid to say that he did not believe. He was far beyond me with his understanding of the science behind our existence and I loved the idea that I could learn from him. He made me look deeper. Then there were others similar to myself, and I didn't feel so alone in this town.

So after all this...(I am sorry for the length) that is the reason I keep coming back. I know that there are others like me. There are those that are fighting their own logic to try and make god fit in there somehow. There are those maybe past that and are trying to find others that have abandoned their belief in god, but feel alone in that choice. I'm not here to try and "preach" my belief to anyone. I am here for support. I am here to let them know they are not alone. For those that are here that believe in religion and god still I have no agenda of trying to turn you away from it. That is your journey and your life. I really don't want to try and persuade you to see things my way. I feel that it is something you have to do on your own. No one could have convinced me that my faith was not real and that there was no god. I had to figure that out on my own. I had to find the answers I was looking for for myself. Maybe you are satisfied in what you believe and are not searching for more. If so then I am truly happy for you. Some people find much comfort in religion. Some of us only find unanswered questions.

There is much more that finally led to my non-belief in a god....however I feel that I am probably boring all of you to tears with my journey through religion. My whole point in this post was to share with those that are like me that you are not alone. Its time we stop living a lie and start saying what we believe. We have every right to our own ideas and beliefs. Living in the south makes it really hard to be a non-religious person, but there are strength in numbers so the more of us that can connect and support each other the better we can make life here where we are a minority livable.

Thank you for you patience and time. If you have read my whole post I truly appreciate it. Smiler

Life is short, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, and never regret anything that made you SMILE!

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Jan, bless your little pea picking heart. Smiler You are a very confused person. Confused
Many people are confused now. Wink

Why People Are So Confused About God

by David J. Stewart


Never in American history have people been any more confused about God and the Bible than they are today. Having been a born again believer for over 25 years, I don't have a problem recognizing the devil at work. The devil is a master counterfeiter, a fraudster. Satan is so deceitful that he even presents himself to mankind as an "angel of light" (2nd Corinthians 11:14). This is a very interesting statement..."an angel of light". An "angel" is a spirit. Satan is a spirit, and he appears as a spirit of light (or spirit of God and truth). If you understand this Biblical teaching, then it won't be very difficult to see the devil in his sheep's clothing. We see Satan's spirit at work in the children of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2).

So many people are confused about God these days because very few people recognize the Bible as God's inspired Word. Honestly, most people are too lazy and apathetic about spiritual matters to take the time to find out what's really going on. So many people's brains are saturated with bumper-sticker-theology these days. You know...all those cute little saying like "The next time you think you're perfect, try walking on water." Sadly, 99% of people don't study their Bible and over time pick up on all these shallow sayings, which are no substitute for a proper diet of Biblical truth. Americans are deficient of spiritual nutrition to the same inversely proportional degree that they are obese on junk food. The average American stuffs their face with junk food while simultaneously starving their soul of the critically needed Word of God. If you don't believe that the Bible is God's Word, then you are well nigh hopeless.

The reason why people are so confused about God is because they are listening to everyone accept the Word of God!


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com...nfused_about_god.htm
Well i typed out a nice, kinda long post, but for some reason it didnt post, so now im just gonaa say Jan, I will pray you come back to your child like faith before its to late and just tell you what i tell others who dont believe in God as the one and true God, even if you dont believe in Him, He believes in you, and for all of us "Believers" on the day of judgement, and there will be one, if we are wrong, we have lost nothing, but if you are wrong, you have lost Everything, God Bless you.
quote:
Originally posted by HadEnough:
The reason why people are so confused about God is because they are listening to everyone except the Word of God!


I can agree with that statement. The only way to understand the Bible is to read it yourself. The opinions of a man or woman are their opinion, not your own. You can't base your belief on what someone else thinks. You have to find out for yourself what you believe. Then your foundation is solid and the opinions of others can't shake it.
Jank,

Yours is a beautiful story of courage and honesty. Thanks for posting it.

Like you, I grew up in a religious household, going to Sunday School or church every Sunday. I also had to stop pretending to believe what any functioning mind must eventually conclude is a false and corrupting idea. It's not easy to overcome, is it? Important things seldom come easy.

Yes, it's hard to be honest about religious skepticism in the South, but our fellow nonbelievers need to know that they are not alone, and that our outlook deserves respect in our communities.

Posts like yours make a positive impact. Congratulations!
quote:
...and for all of us "Believers" on the day of judgement, and there will be one, if we are wrong, we have lost nothing, but if you are wrong, you have lost Everything...


You simply are not taking into account the thousands of other religions and gods. You are taking your Christian gamble for granted, perhaps to your own eternal peril. You too may well loose "Everything" by siding, perhaps for lack of exposure, with the wrong deity.
quote:
so now im just gonaa say Jan, I will pray you come back to your child like faith


Angel,

Jank is no longer a child. She has grown up. She will not be back, I imagine.

Do you know how hard it is to abandon a "father"? Even one who you know is not there?

Jank deserves a lot of credit for having the courage to follow her intellectual convictions. It's a little harder than simply following the bread crumbs. There's all that childhood indoctrination to overcome. As adults, we understand that we were indoctrinated, not only with religion, but patriotism, civic spirit, etc. Still, it's difficult to stand outside our prejudices and enforced biases. It takes intelligence and courage, not to mention imagination.

U7
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Originally posted by Woodsman:
quote:
The reason why people are so confused about God is because they are listening to everyone accept the Word of God!


I'm not usually one to point out grammar errors, but there is a certain bit of irony in this one, don't cha think?


Woody!

Man, you're fast. You beat me to this one! LOL!


Oh no, its the Grammar Police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_wLVCLPx0M

Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
quote:
. Some people find much comfort in religion. Some of us only find unanswered questions.


Jan, I really think it took a lot of courage to post everything so honestly as you did. I'm not going to say "Come back" to God, or anything like that- you know that He would welcome you back at any time. That's all I have to say about that.
BUT i will tell you one thing, that struck me from your post: I believe you can have BOTH comfort and confusion in religion in general. Faith is a mystery. We are not meant to understand it all. I, personally, am confused on a daily basis. It can be frustrating and seem self defeating at times, trying to understand.
I hope you find your path, and I wish you well.
Thanks for sharing..VP
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I have been ask several times in this forum by Bill Gray, "If you don't believe in god, then why are you in a religion forum?" I would like to tell you all the answer to that, but first I have to give the back story. I'm sorry if I end up with a long post but this might take a minute. Smiler

Thank you for you patience and time. If you have read my whole post I truly appreciate it. Smiler


Unlike most of bill's posts, i read all of this one.
and was stuck how very very close our stories are, allowing for a difference in genders.

somehow tho, we ended up in different places for different reactions to pretty much the same things.

i'm not going to spout any of the ' will pray for you to see the light' and such stuff.

every thing happens for a reason, whether we understand it or not.

so, all i'll say is /CHEERS. Good for you.
it's good when people use the brains they were given.
you didn't just accept what you were told, little by little you made your own decisions and found your own truth.
so did i, i just found a different truth, and part of it stems from landing on the idea that the bible wasn't the word of god, but of man.
that made a lot of things easier for me.. answers fell into place, things that seemed to conflict horribly were now harmonious.

yadda yadda yadda.

let's just leave it as - Most excellent post, thank you for sharing Smiler
Sorry, Jank...I just now found time to read your post. Thank you for sharing your story. I was not bored at all. Smiler

No offense to anyone who believes as CoC believe, but I don't agree with them. I tried to prove they were right through God's Word and could not do so.

Jesus came to set me free. After receiving the gift of salvation, there is no freedom if we live in fear that he'll take back the gift if we fail. Our failure IS a given. His coming was in vain if failure equals hell. I find no proof of such an interpretation in God's Word.

He did much and asks very little, that we believe. If we allow him to be Lord of our lives, we are the ones who benefit from that relationship. His teachings and warnings are there to keep us from getting in a mell of a hess & give us the best life that we can have...to free us, not bind us.

Men from the time of Christ have added things that bind because they can't accept the freedom he intended. Jesus chastised leaders in his time for doing the very same thing. It continues today.

I respect and understand you've made your decision, but I would ask you to consider first disregarding anything you've been taught by men/women, who are fallible and seeking God, who is infallible, as well as God's Word anew before turning away forever.

(((hugs))) to you & thank you for sharing your story. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
What's the difference?


Massive difference, sir.
the bible is a book that is supposedly inspired by God, yet written by men.
faith is a belief in an entity of some variety that is the initial source of everythign in existance.
religion is something that other people claim to have and claim that yours is the wrong one so they wage war on you. then they use their religion to make sure they keep their people in line and afraid and uneducated, etc etc.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I have been ask several times in this forum by Bill Gray, "If you don't believe in god, then why are you in a religion forum?" I would like to tell you all the answer to that, but first I have to give the back story. I'm sorry if I end up with a long post but this might take a minute. Smiler

Thank you for you patience and time. If you have read my whole post I truly appreciate it. Smiler


Unlike most of bill's posts, i read all of this one.
and was stuck how very very close our stories are, allowing for a difference in genders.

somehow tho, we ended up in different places for different reactions to pretty much the same things.

i'm not going to spout any of the ' will pray for you to see the light' and such stuff.

every thing happens for a reason, whether we understand it or not.

so, all i'll say is /CHEERS. Good for you.
it's good when people use the brains they were given.
you didn't just accept what you were told, little by little you made your own decisions and found your own truth.
so did i, i just found a different truth, and part of it stems from landing on the idea that the bible wasn't the word of god, but of man.
that made a lot of things easier for me.. answers fell into place, things that seemed to conflict horribly were now harmonious.

yadda yadda yadda.

let's just leave it as - Most excellent post, thank you for sharing Smiler


Nagel I appreciate your kind words. I have found you to be so much like your name on here, the center. Smiler I like that about you. You seem to have a good balance and I wish you good luck and happiness. I sincerely did not want to give up on the god idea. It was extremely hard for me, but I just could not believe in the concept of a god that created and still conducted the lives of humans on earth anymore.

Not to sound condescending but I think there are those that need the security of god. Thats alright. I have my own "security blankets" that I cling to. I do wish that more people had your attitude about god. It would make life a lot easier for the rest of us. You know what you believe and are comfortable with it, and see no need to push it on to others.
quote:
Originally posted by angelfrog1965:
Well i typed out a nice, kinda long post, but for some reason it didnt post, so now im just gonaa say Jan, I will pray you come back to your child like faith before its to late and just tell you what i tell others who dont believe in God as the one and true God, even if you dont believe in Him, He believes in you, and for all of us "Believers" on the day of judgement, and there will be one, if we are wrong, we have lost nothing, but if you are wrong, you have lost Everything, God Bless you.


I have to say that I am glad that I no longer have that "child like faith". I know you say this because you are truly concerned for me and I appreciate that. However it sorta like this. When I was a child I believed in Santa Claus. I grew older and realized he was a myth. As a grown up I now take a couple of childrens names off the salvation army angel tree every year and buy them christmas presents. I know that santa is not going to do this for them because he is not real. If I still believed in him I would assume he would take care of ALL the kids. In that same fashion I no longer believe that there is a god that is going to help the less fortunate or heal the sick. So I do what I can as a volunteer or I donate money to research for medical cures. I don't waste time praying to god for help on any situation anymore, now I just get to work and find the answers to problems myself.

As I said in my original post I spent a good portion of my life believing with all my heart and did not let go of that belief easily. However it just became too hard to believe in what I now believe to be a myth just like santa claus.
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Jank,

Yours is a beautiful story of courage and honesty. Thanks for posting it.

Like you, I grew up in a religious household, going to Sunday School or church every Sunday. I also had to stop pretending to believe what any functioning mind must eventually conclude is a false and corrupting idea. It's not easy to overcome, is it? Important things seldom come easy.

Yes, it's hard to be honest about religious skepticism in the South, but our fellow nonbelievers need to know that they are not alone, and that our outlook deserves respect in our communities.

Posts like yours make a positive impact. Congratulations!


Thank you so much BJBG. Your right it is very hard to overcome what really amounted to brainwashing. I know that my family would not agree with that, but then again they don't agree with alot of things I think now. Smiler I do feel that it was not a purposeful thing on anyones part because they themselves are brainwashed. I feel such freedom and happiness now. Its like waking up from a coma almost. Life has went on around me and I was not really taking part in it. Now I see things completely different. I feel like life is more precious than ever before. We have a short time here to make our mark so to speak and I am not wasting anymore of it on superstition and fear. Thank you again for your support. It really means a lot to me. Smiler
Joy and VP I really hate to lump you two together like this but I am starting to fill this forum up with my responses and I thought instead of 2 more I would just address you guys as one. Smiler

As I said in my original post I was a full on believer for most of my life. I know that your concern for my soul is real and coming from a good place. I appreciate that, but please don't worry about me. To say that its not needed or silly would be very wrong of me. However it makes me feel like you think something is missing in my life that I have not discovered or just haven't accepted. I can promise you that I have given god a very fair chance.

I can't go backwards in my beliefs. I can't ignore the evidence all around me that is contrary to what I believed in my past life. Its like finding out that the earth is round after believing it was flat. You can't just decide to ignore that fact and keep on believing that if you walk to the edge you might fall off.

Once again I do appreciate your thoughts and concern, because I have been where you are and I know that it is sincere. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
so, all i'll say is /CHEERS. Good for you.
it's good when people use the brains they were given. you didn't just accept what you were told, little by little you made your own decisions and found your own truth.

so did i, i just found a different truth, and part of it stems from landing on the idea that the bible wasn't the word of god, but of man.
that made a lot of things easier for me.. answers fell into place, things that seemed to conflict horribly were now harmonious.

Hi Nagel,

You cheer for Jan because she turned from God and found "her" truth.

Then, you say you found "your" truth.

I am curious. What "truth" have you found that causes you to cheer because someone has turned away from God?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Sounds like you're confused now, rram. If you believe in a Creator God, that's a religious idea.

At least you're not one of those Christians who say "I don't have a religion. I have a personal relationship". They do themselves a disservice by trying to make their religion more palatable by calling it irreligion. It would work, too, if only it were true.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
What's the difference?


Massive difference, sir.
the bible is a book that is supposedly inspired by God, yet written by men.
faith is a belief in an entity of some variety that is the initial source of everythign in existance.
religion is something that other people claim to have and claim that yours is the wrong one so they wage war on you. then they use their religion to make sure they keep their people in line and afraid and uneducated, etc etc.


At the risk of mimicking Bill Gray, I'll start another thread to discuss this. I don't want to hijack this thread. This thread is too important and should stand on its merits.
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
I dunno about you Nagel, but I'll cheer for ANYbody who thinks for themselves down here in zombieland. Whether they have religion or not.


and THAT, Bill, is your answer.

i applaud that she thinks for her self and stopped taking other people ideas as her own.

i applaud and cheer her on that she flexed the grey matter she was given. especially i applaud her for having the stones to stand up here in the crotch of the bible belt and say that she doesn't believe, knowing the scorn, ridicule and the oh hunny, i'll pray for you's she'd be hounded with because of it.

and what's more, she didn't do it aggressivly, argumentitivly, or in any way that indicated she thought she was superior because of her beliefs.

which is something we can't say about you.

heh.... I Cheer her because she is using the greatest gifts God (or a strange, unique combination of events brought on by physics in a way that we don't quite understand yet) gave us - free will and an mind to think with, and how she uses it doesn't matter.
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
What's the difference?


Massive difference, sir.
the bible is a book that is supposedly inspired by God, yet written by men.
faith is a belief in an entity of some variety that is the initial source of everythign in existance.
religion is something that other people claim to have and claim that yours is the wrong one so they wage war on you. then they use their religion to make sure they keep their people in line and afraid and uneducated, etc etc.


At the risk of mimicking Bill Gray, I'll start another thread to discuss this. I don't want to hijack this thread. This thread is too important and should stand on its merits.


Agreed Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by HadEnough:
Jan, bless your little pea picking heart. Smiler You are a very confused person. Confused
Many people are confused now. Wink

Why People Are So Confused About God

by David J. Stewart


Never in American history have people been any more confused about God and the Bible than they are today. Having been a born again believer for over 25 years, I don't have a problem recognizing the devil at work. The devil is a master counterfeiter, a fraudster. Satan is so deceitful that he even presents himself to mankind as an "angel of light" (2nd Corinthians 11:14). This is a very interesting statement..."an angel of light". An "angel" is a spirit. Satan is a spirit, and he appears as a spirit of light (or spirit of God and truth). If you understand this Biblical teaching, then it won't be very difficult to see the devil in his sheep's clothing. We see Satan's spirit at work in the children of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2).

So many people are confused about God these days because very few people recognize the Bible as God's inspired Word. Honestly, most people are too lazy and apathetic about spiritual matters to take the time to find out what's really going on. So many people's brains are saturated with bumper-sticker-theology these days. You know...all those cute little saying like "The next time you think you're perfect, try walking on water." Sadly, 99% of people don't study their Bible and over time pick up on all these shallow sayings, which are no substitute for a proper diet of Biblical truth. Americans are deficient of spiritual nutrition to the same inversely proportional degree that they are obese on junk food. The average American stuffs their face with junk food while simultaneously starving their soul of the critically needed Word of God. If you don't believe that the Bible is God's Word, then you are well nigh hopeless.

The reason why people are so confused about God is because they are listening to everyone accept the Word of God!


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com...nfused_about_god.htm


What an idiot. Jank isn't confused at all. Seems quite sure of her position. Everything in her post disputes everything in yours.
quote:
However it makes me feel like you think something is missing in my life that I have not discovered or just haven't accepted


Jan,
I think you are in control of your own life. I am not going to ininuate that anything is missing in your life- you are your own person.
what I said was:
"I hope you find your path, and I wish you well".

And I mean whatever path that may be! Smiler
VP
Hey Jank

I too have been a member of the Church Of Christ for 62 years, I am not going to try to Preach to you, seems you have decided your course mid a lot of Athiest cheering, I am 76 yrs old and I know my time is near and I take it as it comes, but I am glad I have my lord to lean on, when you grow old and can see the end then you too will do a lot more thinking.

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