Homes may be torn down to build new hospital

It's a six square block area. Several local sources have reported on it this past week. Apparently, it's picked up steam since the letters were received.

Brandon Block

Here's an aerial view of the property:

Brandon

Oh, thanks.  I had a busy week and must have missed any mention of it.  Can they not find a vacant lot that size in the area?  My relatives bought and finished hanging the sheetrock in their house there in 1940.  Our family has lived there ever since, and do not want to sell. I know that some of the homes here are privately owned, and have been in the same family for years.  I think it a shame that they may be uprooted on the whim of a major corporation when there is suitable property available elsewhere.

That's one reason it's so hard to believe. Many property owners will not give up their land quietly and easily. At last four other properties have been discussed.

Five Properties

I know she will not give hers up easily, or quietly.  I guess we just need to attend the meeting and see what to do from there.  It will be a shame if they all have to hire lawyers to try to protect their property.  I guess they realize that some of them would have a hard time doing that.

The answer is of course YES, they find a vacant lot in the area., the TVA Res rignt South of Stoplight bridge, but the Florence people whine like a little cat about putting it in Colbert Co. They feel compelled for some reason to locate a major hospital in what will be a difficult place to get to from almost anywhere, but they will at least have the satisfaction of making people who go there endure and endless array of stop lights.

seeweed,

The people of Colbert county made it pretty plain they did not want the hospital there, and this was before the "florence people" were accused of whining.  you need to get your facts straight.  The current owners are determined to find a place to build a facility that has access to major roads, can accomodate growth, and is not far from the city center.  Stipulations made by the board in the initial sale, following the refusal of cooperation from across the river, were that the hospital be built in Lauderdale county.  Thus far the county is seeing some major tax revenue from the hospital venture, and that should be a sign to the powers that be to continue to support the endeavor.  I don't think anyone is going to be forced to sale their homes, but in reality it may be a great opportunity for someone who is looking to sale or relocate.  IMO opinion that site is ideal, as it is a great location, but then again so would placement on 72 east right on the boundary of Florence.  Too bad there is already opposition and disdain for one of the proposed locations. My guess is just the rumor has caused real estate prices in that neighborhood to increase dramatically.

 I knew I should have bought my uncles house in that decrepit neighborhood when I had the chance!!!

I think that location would be fantastic for a hospital. Very close to some major roadways with good access from all directions. Plus it might look kinda nice up on the hill like that as the first thing you see when crossing the bridge.

Maybe I am wrong, but I have never heard of anyone in Colbert Co opposing it , except for the people who run Keller. I believe there may be some issues if it were put on the Res, like dead Cubans in one area, and hazardous materials in some others, but I live in Colbert Co, and I personally don't have a problem with it. 

A few days ago, I got a call from a survey co in Chatt asking my opinion about the hospital , which one I go to, and all that kind of stuff. I personally don't have anything against Keller, but have never used it, nor has my family. My mom who just a few weeks ago died, used ECM because that was where her heart doctor practiced. I was born in ECM. When I had my gall bladder removed, it was ECM in Muscle Shoals I choose because the rooms are so nice, it jujst happens that I have always used ECM . 

At any rate, the surveyor asked me for a suggestion, and here's what I told her - but I don't look for it to happen.

Both the hospitals in the area are plagued with people using the ER as a free clinic, and Jennifer notwithstanding, I have found when I took my mom in to another hospital, that the wait time was very long because so many people were being treated there for minor medical problems. The reason: free medical care. SO ! I told the woman on the phone that the hospital should actually have a free clilnic to serve these people, NOT the ER. (got the idea from watching "House" ) , but I believe it would benefit everyone if that were the case. 

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that idea --

Before I believe these rumors, I would need to see one of these letters.

My family member read the letter to me over the phone yesterday.  I didn't actually see it, but I certainly believe her.

A former associate of my husband (he still works at Keller) has told us he's going to the meeting. I have not seen the letter myself, but there's a snippet of it here.

http://shoalandaspeaks.blogspo...e-to-invite-you.html

Both the hospitals in the area are plagued with people using the ER as a free clinic, and Jennifer notwithstanding,

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Not sure what that little comment is about, but if it's about a long ago post in which I stated that hospital personnel had no business discussing other patients business with you, I stand by the post. I don't see how it's revelant to your discussion here, but please, carry on.

Who was it from?

She is at work now, so I can't call her to verify, but I believe she said it was from RegionalCare.

Shouldn't everybody just settle down and go to the meeting before deciding the "corporate giant" is out to cheat good old folks out of their property?  Maybe it will be a deal that is good for most if not all.  Is the cup always half empty?  And the "corporate giant" saved the good old boy's hospital from sure bankruptcy thanks to the poor investment decisions made in the past, namely paying 3 times the market value for three additional hospitals.  Medicare reimbursement was a smoke screen, at least in my humble opinion.

If they are willing to pay a bit of a premium I'd bet 99% of people would take the money and run.

I bet you are right.  Anybody know the time of the meeting and the place?

Just what I posted. I'm sure they'll direct you to the right room. It is a big building I understand. If my husband's friend does go, I'll try to post what he's told.

Sorry that didn't say. Our bud says 7:00 p.m.

seeweed,

I know that a "free clinic" is a great idea on paper, but it never really works like they show on TV, at least the models I have seen. There are plenty of doctors who donate time and resources to free care.  Some as much as hundreds of thousands of dollars. The biggest complaints I hear from the major specialists is that the liability plays a big part in the time they are willing to donate. Nobody wants to face the elephant in the room, but medical liability scares the bejesus out of most practioners. And honestly, if the truth be known, historically if you look across the stats the ones without insurance or with Medicaid are much more likely to litigate or file complaints. With or without merit, the complaints are costly to defend and in the current environment where a physician can lose his ability to practice, bill or governemntal payors, or can even be sentenced to jail time, most find it difficult to justify the time to dedicate to the clinic.  I know many who travel to Central America, spending their vacation time working in free clinics down there but who are afraid to do the same here because of this very fact.  It is a sad reality that in the current state of the US, no good deed goes unpunished.

Now I said that to say this, IF the hospital was to open a "doc in the box" type of clinic where they used their "hospitalist" type of employees to see non-emergent patients at a reduced fee, that might be a better alternative.  Rather than losing money in the ER where care is expensive just by the nature of the care provided it could be cheaper to treat the patient there than have them tying up the ER.  But, as I have said before, cases are supposed to be triaged in the ER.  Emergent cases first, so if you come in with a cut finger, and someone comes in with an am****ted arm, or a chainsaw accident, you may wait longer while those people are cared for. The ER is not a first come-first serve business.

Sister

Is the "former associate of your husbad" someone who actually has property in that area or is he just someone who plans to go to the meeting to find out the plans for the area?  I have heard one reason they tried to keep this entire endeavor under wraps was to prevent the exact type of thing which is going on here now.  There is already a "burn the witch" attitude displayed by those who will do anything in their power to prevent the construction of this hospital.  If the other hospitals in the area as all such wonder examples of healthcare, I am not sure why there is such a fear of ECM building a new facility.

Tey, thanks - things I had not thought of.

Our friend works at Keller. He lives in Colbert County. I get the impression he thinks Keller can do no wrong. It didn't surprise me that he was going, but I did assume the meeting was open to the public.

The way the housing market is right now, it's a buyers' market and a lot of real estate is just SITTING on the market for long periods of time.  If the hospital gets built in east Florence, then hopefully some will use that as an opportunity to sell their property for a good chunk.  The way things are now, a lot of these homes just won't sell for what they're 'worth' or even appraise for.  It's like that everywhere.  I'm not necessarily suggesting that most would want to "get out" of the neighborhood, but why not use it as an excuse to upgrade?

I know it is touted as "public meeting" but it was my understanding that it was a presentation to the local property owners and people of the church.  My guess is that if they make any offers on anything it will be above the market value and conditional on several things including everyone agreeing to sell.  They likely have more than one site in mind as well, but everyone I have talked to likes this site the best since it represents an ideal location with easy access from north and south.

Wish they were interested in building in my neighborhood, in this market I would take above market value in a heartbeat.

I do not believe that the hospital has a right to obtain property under the principle of "eminent domain."  States and cities have such rights, and the issue of just how far they can go was expanded in a controversial 2005 opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court, in which the court held that a city could take private property on behalf of a private entity.   Read about it here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K...._City_of_New_London

Some states, including Alabama, promptly moved to revise their laws on eminent domain "(takings" law) to prohibit units of government from such takings.  Alabama law is found at  http://law.justia.com/codes/al...6/16994/18-1b-2.html  ,

Which includes the following: 

"Neither the State of Alabama, nor any of its departments, divisions, agencies, commissions, corporations, boards, authorities, or other entities, nor any agency, corporation, district, board, or other entity organized by or under the control of any municipality or county in the state and vested by law to any extent whatsoever with the power of eminent domain may condemn property for the purpose of nongovernmental retail, office, commercial, residential, or industrial development or use; provided, however, the foregoing provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the exercise of the powers of eminent domain by any county, municipality, housing authority, or other public entity based upon a finding of blight in an area covered by any redevelopment plan or urban renewal plan pursuant to Chapters 2 and 3 of Title 24, or to the exercise of eminent domain by or for the benefit of public utilities or other entities engaged in the generation, transmission, or distribution of telephone, gas, electricity, water, sewer, or other utility products or services. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted to prohibit the state or a municipal or county governing body from exercising the power of eminent domain for the purpose of constructing, maintaining, or operating streets and roadways, government buildings, or park and recreation facilities."

Chapters 2 and 3 are found here:

http://law.justia.com/codes/al...Chapter2/24-2-2.html

http://law.justia.com/codes/al...Chapter2/24-2-3.html

Check these out for yourselves, but as I read the relevant portions, it seems that State law is authorizing local governments to exercise eminent domain in behalf of private parties in only a limited way, namely in the case of blighted areas where decrepit residential properties are proposed to be removed prior to improvement of the affected area through construction of new and better housing.  Hospitals or other uses do not seem to be accommodated here.  Of course, the longstanding prerogatives of government to use eminent domain for public utility uses continues.

I suspect that the reason for calling this meeting lies in part with the understanding by RegionalCare   that if they want to property described above, they will have to persuade the owners to sell rather than attempting to obtain it by eminent domain.

Observations:

1.  East Florence--too many greedy people to deal with.  It'd drag on for years unless every property owner got enough $ to move on the lake in Indian Springs.  ECM doesn't have time for a bunch of attorneys to get involved--or the financial resources.

2.  The center of Florence has long moved to Cox Creek Blvd.  The farm behind Martins has the room for the hospital and doctors' buildings, a central location, and one owner to deal with.

3.  For some unknown reason, RegionalCare is hung up on having a river view, but there is little precious land that fits their needs.

4.  East Florence was not the "in place" to live when my mother was going to Maude Lindsey's kindergarden in 1921.  It's the part of town that the Depression never left.  If offered good $ for land/homes, take the $ and run as fast as you can.

All it will take is for one or two East Florence property owners to hold out for an absurdly high price for their property. That could stagnate matters for longer than RegionalCare would put up with.

Think of the two-lane bottleneck on Wilson Dam Road and how long it took to reach agreement with adjacent landowners there.  And the state did have eminent domain authority in that situation.

Of course this could be avoided if other property owners, eager to sell, took it upon themselves to "persuade" the greedy holdouts to compromise with "an offer they couldn't refuse."

I expect that if the other property owners took it upon themselves to "persuade" the greedy holdouts to compromise with "an offer they couldn't refuse" they might get more than they bargained for.  Unless, of course, by "persuade" you mean them offering to share part of their own proceeds from the sale of their property. 

Depends on where the one or two holdouts are located.  The hospital could go ahead and build their building and the parking lot and let those two houses sit there.  How much do you think it would cost them to buy once the holdouts were surrounded by hospital and parking? 

This location doesn't make sense to me.  Seems too small and too difficult to acquire.  There is plenty of room out Cox Creek Pkwy.

I agree that there is plenty of room on Cox Creek.  But I also see their line of thinking, location is everything!  The purposed site is roughly in the center (or very close) to the shoals area, close to all of florence residents and close to muscle shoals/sheffield residents as well (or closer than it would out on cox creek).  To put it out on Cox Creek would potentially make people not as likely to go there.  Also on Cox Creek there is only one major roadway (depending where they put it on there, Im assuming they put it on cox creek itself, not at an intersection) whereas at the veterans spot, there is veterans drive for the east/west, the new bridge/helton (which is to be expanded soon) for the north/south and huntsville rd and florence blvd not far away either.

Dangle the promise of jobs and tax revenue and the City of Florence will make sure they can build anywhere they want. It doesn't matter what the residents have to say.  Remember Wal Mart?

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Actually, as I have been told, while there are six square blocks in question, RC will need to get only the two large block parcels in order to have the basic property.

What RegionalCare Wants

Without knowing all the specifics, it's hard to say if this is a good idea for Regional Care or not. The property owners may or may not be willing to sell - who knows? Perhaps they have more information than we do at this point. But I feel like this is an excellent location for a new hospital. Cox Creek, while the center of retail in Florence, is not where they should be looking. A smart city will look to guide development towards depressed areas and try to revitalize those that are in need. We can debate whether or not Florence qualifies as a "smart" city, but it's true that plans have been around for years to try to push for redevelopment in East Florence.

Helton Drive/Patton Island Bridge corridor is poised to become the "main street of the Shoals" in the decades to come. The location we are discussing is basically the geographic center of the Shoals urbanized area. So, not only do I think it's a good location as far as accessibility is concerned, but also both geographically and even aesthetically. Florence needs something to spruce up that "gateway". What better than a sparkling, modern new medical center on a hill? Plus I do expect it would have positive effects on property values in the surrounding neighborhoods and spark some possible additional commercial development in the area. 

It seems to me that land that an owner is willing to sell is better than land an owner isn't willing to sell every time.  I'll bet I could find somewhere for them to put their hospital.

There really is not many houses in the area desired. I think it is a good location.

Originally Posted by: seaweed

My mom who just a few weeks ago died

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I'm sorry your Mom died.

Meeting will be soon and then everybody will know what the offer is and can judge for themselves.