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Hi to my Forum Friends,

Last week, watching the news on television, I saw something which really puzzled me. Then, yesterday, listening to my pastor's message, that little "light bulb above my head" lit up -- and I could see clearly the answer.

What did I see that puzzled me? The news station was showing a meeting in Southern California where people were debating Proposition 8, the Same-Sex Marriage ban, which the California Supreme Court recently ruled to uphold. Several people spoke in favor of the ban; then a man who appeared to be in his fifties stood up to speak. He was a conservative, well dressed man -- looking nothing like the characters we see marching in the Gay Pride Parades, or even those hanging around the gay bars in San Francisco and San Diego. The man looked, in all ways, just like any person we might meet on the street. Yet, he is gay. But, what puzzled me was his sincerity when he stood and declared, "God made me this way!"

My immediate reaction was that this man is very sincere; he really does believe that God created him to be gay. How can any rational, intelligent person come to believe something which is so far from the truth?

Then, yesterday, as I was listening to Pastor Omer teach from Proverbs 15 and 16, that small little "light bulb above my head" began to glow -- as I thought to myself, "Everything, good and bad, has a beginning." Think about that. The sin of the world -- began when Eve allowed herself to be deceived by Satan, and Adam, there with her (Genesis 3:6), did nothing to prevent that deceit. That one seed of disobedience birthed all the sin of the world.

Cancer begins with one small cancerous cell. Then, it grows and spreads, until -- if not checked -- it metastasizes all over the body. One corrupted cell -- spreading until it engulfs the entire body.

And, if we are honest with ourselves, we can trace the ills of our American society to one source: How we view the Bible.

Yes, our attitudes toward abortion, homosexuality, same-sex marriage -- even murder, rape, thievery, alcoholism; all the ills of our society can be traced to how we view the Bible.

"Okay, Bill, please explain this ridiculous statement!"

Not a problem. Folks either view the Bible in one of two ways -- and this includes believers, non-believers; even atheist, secularists, agnostics -- everyone. We all believe the Bible exists. Some may not believe that God exists -- but, even they will not question that the Bible does, indeed, exist.

So, what are the two ways to view the Bible? The Liberal, and we can lump all the non-believers, atheists, secularist, agnostics, etc., in with our Liberal Christian Friends when discussing their view of the Bible. To the Liberal, et al, the Bible is a good book, worth reading, but it is not the inspired, inerrant Word of God. It is a book written by men to fit their individual beliefs, cultures, and needs, to guide and teach their society of their day. In the mind of the Liberal, the Bible is a book of myths, metaphors, allegories, symbolism, and fables. It can be used to teach moral values, within the limits of society -- but, should never be viewed as a book of absolutes. Basically, their attitude, when we point out a specific Scriptural passage or verse to show them God's position on sins, is, "Well, that is what the Bible says; but, that is not what God really meant." At this point, I have to ask, "If God did not mean it -- why did He say it?" The word "oops" is not in God's vocabulary.

The Conservative, Evangelical Christian will view the Bible as the Holy Spirit inspired, inerrant Word of God -- His revelation to man of all things we need to know to live in this world -- in Biblical times and in our times today. If the Bible tells us that a specific action is wrong, that it is a sin -- then, you can bet your eternal life on it -- that is how God views that action.

So, why did the conservative looking gentleman in the Prop 8 meeting sincerely declare and believe, "God made me this way!"?

Because many centuries ago, sincere Christians, wanting to reach a point of agreement with others who held different views -- began to compromise their beliefs to fit their friends' belief systems. I just received the latest issue of the magazine "Acts & Facts," published by the Institute For Creation Research. The first article is one written by the late Dr. Henry M. Morris, founder of the Institute For Creation Research and himself a scientist and a Bible-believing Christian. The article is titled "Traveling Down The Road To Compromise" -- and from that article I have taken this excerpt:

Charles Darwin set the pattern. Starting out as a Bible-believing creationist, he first became enamored of Charles Lyell's uniformitarianism and his "progressive creationism." Soon he abandoned the Bible and creationism altogether, moving on into the domain of theistic evolutionism. Eventually he became an agnostic and finally an atheist.

Many others in his day followed this compromise road. Darwin's chief opponents, in fact, were scientists, not the theologians of his day.


Once we step away from "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1) -- we open the door for a world of compromise. And, we end up with a society of people like the gentleman who sincerely believes, "God made me this way!"

Can we blame this man? No. We can blame the Christians who have allowed the Bible to be down-sized to being just a good book; we can blame the American Psychiatric Association who wants everything to fit into a Freudian mold instead of a God mold; we can blame a society which has a extreme "I" problem, i.e., I want this; I want that; I want the freedom to do what "I" want to do, etc., on and on, ad infinitum.

And, we can blame those who benefit financially from propagating this Liberal view of the Bible and God. Who benefits financially? Well, for one, I don't believe you will find many abortionists living in run down neighborhoods or driving old clunker cars. I believe we can all agree that the popular atheist writers -- Dawkins, Hitchens, et al -- laugh all the way to their banks where they deposit their millions taken from the pockets of their devout followers. And, have you ever wondered why we, so frequently, see these devout men of the atheist religion participating in debates and on talk shows? These debates and talk shows are golden calves, cash cows, for them. Every time one of them is seen in a debate or on a talk show -- their cash registers start ringing.

Who suffers? The people like this gentleman who sincerely declared, "God made me this way!" Society, Liberals, all the anti-God crowd -- all have so convinced this man that "God made him this way!" -- that he is not open to change, to healing, to a cure for his societal illness. Yes, they have firmly convinced him that their way is the right way -- and, one day, they will have to stand before Jesus Christ and explain to Him why they led this man, and billions like him, down the path to destruction.

In Matthew 25:31-46, we read about the Sheep and Goat Judgment which will occur at the end of the Tribulation and before the beginning of the Millennial Reign of Christ on earth. Here, Jesus explains to His disciples how, at that time, He will judge who will go into the Millennial Kingdom with Him -- and who will go into eternal punishment. Those who have convinced this man to believe "God made me this way!" -- will have a hard time explaining their motives to Jesus Christ. And, if these folks have died before the Rapture, Tribulation, Sheep and Goat Judgment, and Millennial Kingdom -- they will still have their audience with Jesus Christ at His Great White Throne Judgment; when all non-believers will stand before Jesus Christ and try to explain their non-belief -- before going to their eternal life with Satan.

My Friends, now is a good time to start taking God's Written Revelation to man -- the Bible -- seriously. God wrote what He meant -- and He meant what He wrote. And, the sooner we all believe and acknowledge this -- the more folks we can lead into eternal security with Him rather than toward eternal destruction without Him. Think about it.

Then, commit yourself to sharing the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, the true Gospel of Salvation -- with all your Friends, Relatives, Associates, and Neighbors -- all your FRANs. Wouldn't you rather have the eternal satisfaction of knowing you may have helped one FRAN to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- rather than the eternal pain of knowing you may have helped lead one FRAN into eternal destruction by what you tell him/her about God's Word, the Bible? Think about it.

How Do YOU View The Bible?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
I believe we can all agree that the popular atheist writers -- Dawkins, Hitchens, et al -- laugh all the way to their banks where they deposit their millions taken from the pockets of their devout followers. And, have you ever wondered why we, so frequently, see these devout men of the atheist religion participating in debates and on talk shows? These debates and talk shows are golden calves, cash cows, for them. Every time one of them is seen in a debate or on a talk show -- their cash registers start ringing.
Bill


All I know is that when confronted with evidence any logical person would see the light and can change their views. However, a religious zealot will always keep his faith no matter how solid the evidence is disproving it.

And as far as them coming on talk shows or participating in debates, it's not just a chance for them to pocket a paycheck, put also a chance for them to hopefully enlighten others with their logic. So basically you're saying these guys shouldn't get paid to spread their ideas? How many churches pay their pastors? I'm sure it's a few. What's the difference in them getting paid to spread their ideas, and a pastor getting paid to do the same?

Cash cows? You probably need to open your eyes and take a look at the beautiful cathedrals and churches around the country. I don't think the majority of them were built free of charge. Sad to think that millions of dollars have been dumped into building these places, when that money could have gone to other noble causes.
Sorry Bill, the verdict is still out on the genetic and environmental aspects of homosexuality. Several studies have shown that children as young as 5 know if they are attracted to the same sex. To say they 'choose' to be is a bit ludicrous.

More research needs to be done.

If you wish to condemn homosexuality based on Sodom and Gomorrah, feel free.
It never ceases to amaze me are people who know EVERYTHING there is to know about lives that are NOT their own. Bill, you are trying to force people into your own little box based on your personal view of THEIR lives through a totally religious view. That never works and there is something inherently hostile to your effort. We do not live in a theocracy, and your strongly held religious view is not and should not direct public policy and the rights of the individual to pursue happiness. Freedom is not, and should not be parceled out according to our view of an individuals spiritual life, relationship with God, or any other religious qualification. In my church we accept ALL people without regard to where they are on a particular political or social issue. We study, worship, take communion, work, and learn side by side with anyone who wishes to be there. Sometimes they are just like me, other times they are totally different on any number of ideals, ideology, and belief. That works for me and for many Christians, and is not subject to your agreement or approval.
Hi all,

Well, it is obvious how those who have posted so far view the Bible -- from the Liberal Left side of the street.

You can argue with me all you like; you can call me crazy if you like -- but, the views I post are not my views; but are views which come from the Bible. No, not the Liberal's Bible which who tell us that, "Yes, the Bible says that; but, that is not what God meant."

I read the Bible to see what God meant; you read the Bible, if you do, to determine what you want the Bible to mean. There is a world of difference. I will just stand on God's meaning and you can stand with the world. And, one day, we will let Jesus Christ tell us what God meant when He authored the Bible.

But, be careful that you are not suffering from "I" problems. It is easy to do: I want; I think; I don't like to believe God meant that; etc.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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"You can argue with me all you like; you can call me crazy if you like -- but, the views I post are not my views; but are views which come from the Bible."

Yes, the views are yours based on your personal religious convictions. Not everyone accepts that view or shares your convictions. I would not necessarily call you "crazy" for your beliefs, nor would I refer to you as wrong. I think we would all appreciate it if you would extend us the same consideration and allow us the same latitude without judging us on how and why we came to our totally different conclusions.
Last edited by meanasasnake
Bill,
When the Bible contradicts itself, which verse are we to follow?

Here are some examples:

Who was Zerubbabel's father?

1 Chronicles 3:19
And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel, and Shimei.

OR

Ezra 3:2, Nehemiah 12:1
Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel.

Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?


Matthew 27:55
And many women were there beholding afar off.

Mark 15:40
There were also women looking on afar off.

OR


John 19:25
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

What did the soldiers give Jesus to drink?

Vinegar and gall
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall. -- Matthew 27:34

OR

Wine and myrrh
They gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh. -- Mark 15:23

OR

Vinegar
And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar. -- Luke 23:36

OR

Vinegar and hyssop
Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. -- John 19:29


The Bible was inspired by God, and written by men. It has been translated and twisted by men ever since Moses got down from Mount Sinai with those tablets. God gave us intelligence, mercy, and compassion to know His Word even when others use it for their legalistic and judgmental means. You remind me of the Pharisees in Matthew 15.
Hi all,

Yes, I can confirm that ALL LIBERALS have parted way with Bill Gray -- for I will always view the Bible as the Author intended: "ALL SCRIPTURE is INSPIRED by God. . ." (2 Timothy 3:16).

It does not say, "All Scripture which fits your desires and cultural needs is inspired by God." -- but, ALL SCRIPTURE.

So, you can pick and choose all you like -- but, one day the Author will ask you, personally, why you rejected His Word. What will you tell Him? That it did not fit the lifestyle you liked; so you just ignored Him. I don't think that will fly.

If your child had diabetes -- and came to you demanding that you give him/her candy -- would you do it? What if he/she tells you, "But, it is my right! I have a right to eat candy if I like! God created me to eat chocolate; so, give it to me!" What would you do?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
If your child had diabetes -- and came to you demanding that you give him/her candy -- would you do it? What if he/she tells you, "But, it is my right! I have a right to eat candy if I like! God created me to eat chocolate; so, give it to me!" What would you do?

ALL SCRIPTURE is INSPIRED by God

I have a child with diabetes, Bill. I also vote conservative. As for my conversation with God, I can answer honestly why I feel the way I do and I know He will know the corruption His word has had done to it by man.. I am not afraid, Bill.

Scripture 'inspired' by God, not 'written' by God.

I am inspired to write a thesis on diabetes, it does not mean I am using any actual facts.
"It does not say, "All Scripture which fits your desires and cultural needs is inspired by God." -- but, ALL SCRIPTURE.

So, you can pick and choose all you like -- but, one day the Author will ask you, personally, why you rejected His Word. What will you tell Him? That it did not fit the lifestyle you liked; so you just ignored Him. I don't think that will fly."

Bill,

Your little theocratic hissy fit is not persuasive. Even within the "Evangelical community" there is a divergent view on this subject. Since not all of us are Fundamentalists, "Biblians",Evangelicals we are allowed to possess different views as well. You say you "don't think that will fly". Well, I am not sure God will be very pleased that you perhaps treated people badly by placing rules and adherence to one view above all else. Of the seven deadly sins, I am always fascinated that the Evangelicals fascinate themselves with "lust" rather than the other SIX. Lust is far more interesting, probably because it is the one which diminishes most with age. Greed, laziness, gluttony, etc. can continue to well into old age and go with us into death.



Link

"For me, much of the blame, from a sociological view, is the evangelical captivity (or of SOME or maybe even MOST evangelicals) to the supremacy of TEXT over COMMUNITY; TEXTUAL AUTHORITY OVER (and often to the exclusion of) ecclesia (here, ecclesia being the living with Scripture as a people called to be a model of life as God calls forth)."

Olsen:

…[the most] provocative [point] was Moreland’s argument about why evangelicals became over-committed to the Bible. Rather than developing a robust epistemology in response to secularism, he said, evangelicals reacted and retreated. Now evangelical theologians aren’t allowed to come to any new conclusions about the truths in Scripture, and they’re not allowed to find truths outside of Scripture. As a result, he said, they’re engaged in “private language games and increasingly detailed minutia” and “we’re not seeing work on broad cultural themes.”

"I am first and foremost a Christian. I worship, follow, and seek to imitate Christ. I am not a Biblian. I do not worship the Bible, even though it is a reliable and authoritative witness to the person of Jesus Christ, the living Word of God. It is not a question of choosing one over and against the other, but a question of priority, emphasis, and ultimate allegiance."
Last edited by meanasasnake
Hi Mean,

Yes, you will be able to gather many supporters for your Liberal view; but, does that make it correct? You want to rewrite or interpret the Bible to fit your likes and dislikes; go for it. No one doing this will answer to Bill Gray. However, we all will have to answer to Jesus Christ. And, I am sure He will have something to say when you tell Him, "Well, yes, You said that. But that is not really what You meant!"

As far as the J.P. Moreland's lapse of memory when he wandered off into Liberal Land -- well, I said he was wrong then and I say it now.

As a matter of fact, a pastor Friend of mine had Moreland as a professor when he attended seminary at Biola University. He thinks very highly of Moreland -- yet, he could not give me a reason for Moreland's lapse.

So, Mean, you do as your heart guides you and I will do as the Bible guides me. And, let's just remain Friends who agree to disagree.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
It could be that Moreland is not the one with bad judgment.

Yes, I will continue to rely on Scripture, Reason AND Tradition. It has worked for Christians for thousands of years. A scant century of Evangelical/Fundie faux-orthodoxy does not change that fact.

Hi Mean,

In the Bible, I can find where God tells us, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ." But, for the life of me -- I just cannot find the Scripture passage or verse which tells me that, "All reason and tradition is inspired by God."

Help me out with this. What Scripture verse did you say tells us this?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, when i first found these forums my very first post was in defense of one of your posts. I felt that in that particular post you were (mainly) in the right. After a year or so of reading posts on here and contributing from time to time, I have found that you are not only wrong the majority of the time, but you also avoid and ignore direct questions.
I have asked you two questions in which I am interested in your response. I will ask them again here and perhaps you can clarify your position.
1) bill,you say that the so called christians of today (Which in my eyes is very debatable)dont attack science. Yet, there is a constant onslaught against the theory of evolution, because it doesn't agree with your skewed view. Yes, evolution is a theory, but look at the computer in front of you. What does that computer need to work? Electricity. Electricity itself is a theory, but a theory with practical applications used every day. Evolution is also a theory with practical applications used everyday in the fields of science and medicine. If you believe in the principles of electricity, you should also believe in the principals of evolution.
and no im not an atheist, i am a very firm believer in god, i just dont believe he is a magician, just like everything in this world is done by process so to did god create the world and man by process.
2)Bill,
you still haven't explained how mass murder of innocent people is justified?
(this particularly interests me since you are against the abortion of prehuman fetuses)
Hi TCF.

You tell me, "Bill, when i first found these forums my very first post was in defense of one of your posts. I felt that in that particular post you were (mainly) in the right. After a year or so of reading posts on here and contributing from time to time, I have found that you are not only wrong the majority of the time, but you also avoid and ignore direct questions. I have asked you two questions in which I am interested in your response. I will ask them again here and perhaps you can clarify your position."

Well, TCF, my Friend, the main reason I have not responded to your posts before is they are always just generalities, i.e., "Why does it rain every summer?" or "The Germans killed millions of people; therefore all Germans are bad people!" When anyone, including my wife, begins a sentence with "They said so and so" -- I always ask, "Who are they?" It is a waste of time to respond to comments and questions which speak only in generalities. If you have a real question; you should be able to ask it in specific terms. If not, you are just ranting and raving.

Then, you say, "(1) bill, you say that the so called christians of today (Which in my eyes is very debatable) dont attack science. Yet, there is a constant onslaught against the theory of evolution, because it doesn't agree with your skewed view. Yes, evolution is a theory, but look at the computer in front of you. What does that computer need to work? Electricity. Electricity itself is a theory, but a theory with practical applications used every day. Evolution is also a theory with practical applications used everyday in the fields of science and medicine. If you believe in the principles of electricity, you should also believe in the principals of evolution.

First of all, we do not disagree with evolution -- only macro evolution, i.e., Darwinian Evolution.

Second, if you believe that electricity is only a theory -- wet your hands and then grab a bare wire plugged into your 115 vac outlet.

And, you add, "and no im not an atheist, i am a very firm believer in god, i just dont believe he is a magician, just like everything in this world is done by process so to did god create the world and man by process."

Gee, a "firm believer" who does not believe that God can create; a firm believer who does not believe that God can heal; a firm believer who does not believe God. This makes me wonder what a non-believer, or one who is not so firm, believes.

And, finally, you rant and rave, "(2) Bill, you still haven't explained how mass murder of innocent people is justified? (this particularly interests me since you are against the abortion of prehuman fetuses)"

Once again, you are ranting in generalities. If you want to discuss specific events in the Bible; pick an event, give my your interpretation of that event -- and I will give you mine.

Regarding unborn babies -- what makes you think they are prehuman? What is prehuman? Is it an ape, a turtle, a monkey, an alien? If that child is prehuman; please tell me what form of evolution it is in its mother's womb. Then, please explain to all women who have been pregnant and carried their babies full term -- that what they had in their womb was not human; but, some prehuman animal or alien.

TCF, I will be happy to discuss specifics with you -- but, I will not waste my time on generalities and ranting.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally posted by Cookey:
Evil, self centered, judgemental, bloviating moron. Bloviator, you inspire hatred more than any person I've ever had the displeasure of getting to know.

Hi Skeptik,

One of the things most often missing in our world is consistency. Yet, you do inspire me; for you are always consistent -- anyone who disagree with your atheist religion is self-centered, judgmental, and a moron. Skeptik, you give me hope -- for if an atheist can be this consistent; there is hope for the real world.

By the way, one other consistency you maintain -- the third grade level "You're stupid!" -- "You're a moron!" -- and on and on, ad infinitum.

You definitely are a great role model for all third grade, school yard bullies.

But, even with your limitations; God still loves you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
One of the things most often missing in our world is consistency. Yet, you do inspire me; for you are always consistent -- anyone who disagree with your atheist religion is self-centered, judgmental, and a moron.


No really Bloviator, it's just you.

. . . On second thought, Fred Phelps might come close to eliciting the level of revulsion I feel for you.
Hi Bill,
I really like the way that instead of answering my questions you accuse me of ranting and raving. You say that my questions were just generalities that would be a waste of time to respond to. To me it seems like you avoid the really hard questions.

Now, going point by point through your post:

First you said, First of all, we do not disagree with evolution -- only macro evolution, i.e., Darwinian Evolution.

So, that means you do believe in evolution? You just dont agree with the man who developed the theory.

Then you say, Second, if you believe that electricity is only a theory -- wet your hands and then grab a bare wire plugged into your 115 vac outlet.


My very first high school class was electrical theory. In science there are theories and laws. Examples in electrical are AC theory and DC theory. There are also laws, examples are ohms law and kirchhoffs law.
In evolution there is, of course, Darwins theory and the theory of uniformitarianism. There are also laws, such as Mendels law and Hardy- Weinberg law.

Next you say, Gee, a "firm believer" who does not believe that God can create; a firm believer who does not believe that God can heal; a firm believer who does not believe God. This makes me wonder what a non-believer, or one who is not so firm, believes.

I do believe that God can create and heal, I just dont believe he is a magician sitting in heaven casting spells. I believe he does things by process, just like rain is a process, or birth is a process. Rain isn't magic, it takes evaporation and condensation for even the smallest shower. Birth, as magical as it seems, is a process. No children ever magically appear in their mothers arms.

On the next sentence I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you never looked at the post you started on Joshua 3 & 4.
You say, And, finally, you rant and rave, "(2) Bill, you still haven't explained how mass murder of innocent people is justified? (this particularly interests me since you are against the abortion of prehuman fetuses)"

On this question I ask you to refer to your post:
Link

As far as your question......
Regarding unborn babies -- what makes you think they are prehuman? What is prehuman? Is it an ape, a turtle, a monkey, an alien? If that child is prehuman; please tell me what form of evolution it is in its mother's womb. Then, please explain to all women who have been pregnant and carried their babies full term -- that what they had in their womb was not human; but, some prehuman animal or alien.

..... I feel as though you should answer my questions first.

Have a nice day Bill.
Personally speaking, I view the Bible with my eyes through my glasses lenses.

How I read and then interpret it is another matter, however.

I generally concentrate on the Gospels, then Acts, and then quite reluctantly upon the Pauline and Petrine letters, and most definitely try to avoid eschatology at all costs, so that means that Revelations is taken with a heaping peck of salt, the same goes for most of the Five Books of Moses and and the Davidic exploits and other tiresome begat and waged war stuff. I frankly have no use for Joshua or Leviticus or Numbers at all, as I sicken at the tribalism and silliness in that section of the Torah, being a Christian and having a brain that works.
quote:
Originally posted by Neal Hughes: I generally concentrate on the Gospels, then Acts, and then quite reluctantly upon the Pauline and Petrine letters, and most definitely try to avoid eschatology at all costs, so that means that Revelations is taken with a heaping peck of salt, the same goes for most of the Five Books of Moses and and the Davidic exploits and other tiresome begat and waged war stuff. I frankly have no use for Joshua or Leviticus or Numbers at all, as I sicken at the tribalism and silliness in that section of the Torah, being a Christian and having a brain that works.

Hi Neal,

It must be exciting to be so intelligent that you can choose which part of God's Word you will accept --and which part you will reject. But, how do you explain 2 Timothy 3:16, "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God. . ."? Well, I guess, since you are more intelligent than all the Scripture writers and God who inspired them -- you can reject whomever you choose. And, you do say that you reject the writings of Peter and Paul -- so, we can just erase all those epistles.

I guess that, when you stand before Jesus Christ, you can just tell Him, "Look, Jesus, don't You know who I am? I am Neal Hughes! The Neal Hughes who rejects 75% of Your Bible. You should have asked me before You had those guys waste their time writing those books. After all, I have my Prayer Book."

Yes, sir, I am sure that is going to really impress Jesus Christ. Neal, you just remind Jesus that He should have had Paul write, "All Neal's Prayer Book is inspired by God" -- not, "All Scripture is inspired by God." Remember, Neal, you must set Him straight. After all, who does He think He is -- God?

Good luck, my Friend.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
One of the things most often missing in our world is consistency. Yet, you do inspire me; for you are always consistent -- anyone who disagree with your atheist religion is self-centered, judgmental, and a moron.


I'm confused. I had no idea "atheism" was a "religion". I thought it fell more in the "worldview" realm. Is this more of a "I swear to God I'm an atheist" thing?

I expect we could take a vote about who comes off the most hateful and moronic. Early poll results favor the west coast entry.
Now were I into a sadistic capricious tribal God, then I most likely would savor Exodus, Genesis, and Leviticus and Joshua as much as does Bill, and had I an inkling of what Revelation means theologically in the big picture, then I might enjoy reading Revelation. However I do not and therefore I do not.
Odd that Billy so hates the CofE and especially the AB of C so much and our prayer book so much, as all our clergy can read Greek if not Greek, Latin, and Hebrew and Aramaic and usually German. I reckon that doesn't count much in the I am saved forever by a magic prayer camp.
You do know that all that magical stuff was pretty much abandoned a long time ago, there was a little movement called the Enlightenment that rejected witchcraft, a literal reading of the Bible as a reliable history and a science primer. It kinda stuck and republics were reestablished on its tenets, or at least royal god-given (alleged) power renounced after a few heads were severed. The world will not be going back to superstition and alleged magic powers and I can guarantee you that! It is like the atomic genie out of the bottle.

p.s. The Tribulapture is a modern urban myth that a few simonizers parlay into a fortune paid for by suckers. The Pope had Terzel and TBN has Benny Hinn, the Crouches and Parsley and Hagee. They all claim to be "bible believing" Xians, yet I have yet to see them give one sermon on Xity as taught by the Apostles and Our Lord, but they have a lot of CDs and DVDs to be sold for the deliverance of the worried souls consolation as they will know better when to ensure to wear clean underwear for flying off from Satan's realm to descend or is that ascend? Is he in a pit or not? One does get so confused . . . Does the pit come later and then he gets loose? It makes my brain hurt. Maybe I should study those Jack Chick tracts with charts a little more closely.

Bill asks for opinion and gets mine, and then he doesn't like it. That is what you get for asking.
Hi Neal,

One day, when you stand before Jesus Christ -- and you will. And, keep in mind that it will be you standing before Jesus Christ; not Him standing before you.

So, at that time, Neal, you just remind Jesus how wrong He is and that He should have had Paul write, "All Neal's Prayer Book is inspired by God" -- not, "All Scripture is inspired by God." Remember, Neal, you must set Him straight. After all, who does He think He is -- God?

Oh, by the way, Neal -- the term is Holy Bible -- not Holy Prayer Book. Just thought I would mention that.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Zombie 9tails:
That is like me saying that the flying spaghetti monster made me white.


Just how the hell do YOU know, heathen?

His Noodliness can and certainly make you black, gay, or perhaps even a nice Greek noodle salad if He wants with nothing but a plop of His noodly appendage!

I ask you to refrain from speaking of His name in a derogatory manner again. Your whole sexuality is at stake, man!
Mr. Gray replies in an ambling way: "Yes, sir, I am sure that is going to really impress Jesus Christ. Neal, you just remind Jesus that He should have had Paul write, "All Neal's Prayer Book is inspired by God" -- not, "All Scripture is inspired by God." Remember, Neal, you must set Him straight. After all, who does He think He is -- God?"

What the tribulation ever, old odd man. You had been taking your psychotropics and then quit recently, did you not? You were actually making sense for a while a week or so ago.

Unfortunately, when asked for an opinion I usually give mine, and isn't that what is requirred for dialogue? Di a logue -- from the Greek, meaning di (two) and logue, from the nominative noun logos, meaning speach, word, learning, etc. You instead insinst upon a boring haranguing monologue about your certainty of certain metaphyical things and continue to snipe at anyone who holds differing viewpoints, so much for dia and UP the MONO!

You want a monologue, then start a new thread ranting and it will be as ridiculed and ignored as most of yours are lately. I tire, I must soon depart for Sodom on the Chattahoochie for a society wedding and shopping at Lenox and Atlantic Station and copious spending sprees at Trader Joe's and on sushi and Indian food.

Adieu, mon ami, Dominum vobiscum.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
In the Bible, I can find where God tells us, "All Scripture is inspired by God. . ."
I have a fabulous purse that I bought from a really nice Asian woman on Canal Street in New York City. The purse is inspired by Prada. It has the look, feel, and even the emblems of a real Prada bag. Is it Prada? No, far from it. I think that some of the Bible has suffered from the fate of inspiration.
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by Zombie 9tails:
That is like me saying that the flying spaghetti monster made me white.


Just how the hell do YOU know, heathen?

His Noodliness can and certainly make you black, gay, or perhaps even a nice Greek noodle salad if He wants with nothing but a plop of His noodly appendage!

I ask you to refrain from speaking of His name in a derogatory manner again. Your whole sexuality is at stake, man!


If the FSM makes you black, is it in olive form?

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