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By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)
By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)
By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)
By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)
By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)


consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)

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Hi David,

I noticed that your list omits Ephesians 2:9.  That is rather like serving only half a loaf of bread.

Ephesians 2:8,  "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

Ephesians 2:9,  "not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

All of what your list suggests is true of a full Christian life.  But, salvation is encapsulated in all of Ephesians 2:8-9 -- "by grace you have been saved through faith" is how one is saved.  This plus nothing else.

Then, God, in this Scripture passage adds that salvation is "not of yourselves" and that it is "not as a result of works."

Why does God add these disclaimers?   He tells us, "so that no one may boast."   In other words, Gods wants us to be fully aware that we cannot save ourselves.   Only He, working through the Holy Spirit can save us, as you point out using John 3:5 in your list -- and I would also include John 3:3.

So, if one cannot work for his/her salvation, if salvation is not of yourself and not of any works you can do -- how does one gain salvation?  He gives us this answer also -- "it is the gift of God" -- to all, who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ --  will believe and receive (John 1:12) His "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

David, all the rest of those verses you quote are the result of our salvation -- NOT the cause of our salvation.   

Once a person has truly become a born-again Christian, once a person has become a Christ Follower -- he/she will have the desire to do all those things shown in the rest of your list -- those things which are the works, i.e., results, of our salvation.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill 

Saved By Grace

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi David,

I noticed that your list omits Ephesians 2:9.  That is rather like serving only half a loaf of bread.

Ephesians 2:8,  "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;"

Ephesians 2:9,  "not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

James 2: 14-24   a man is justified by works and not faith alone.

All of what your list suggests is true of a full Christian life.  But, salvation is encapsulated in all of Ephesians 2:8-9 -- "by grace you have been saved through faith" is how one is saved.  This plus nothing else.      That's not biblical, Bill

Then, God, in this Scripture passage adds that salvation is "not of yourselves" and that it is "not as a result of works."        

 

 Eph 2: 8-10   We are created in Christ Jesus for good works 

 

Why does God add these disclaimers?   He tells us, "so that no one may boast."   In other words, Gods wants us to be fully aware that we cannot save ourselves.   Only He, working through the Holy Spirit can save us, as you point out using John 3:5 in your list -- and I would also include John 3:3.       OK,,John 3: 3 - where 's that going?

So, if one cannot work for his/her salvation, if salvation is not of yourself and not of any works you can do -- how does one gain salvation?  He gives us this answer also -- "it is the gift of God" -- to all, who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ --  will believe and receive (John 1:12) His "free gift" of eternal life in Christ.

There isn't a free ticket to heaven, once saved, always saved isn't biblical

no matter how you twist it.


David, all the rest of those verses you quote are the result of our salvation -- NOT the cause of our salvation.   

 

Well Bill, what was/is the reason for the Bible in the first place?

Did Jesus really need to go through that hanging thing ?
Could God the Father not dispense free tickets?

Once a person has truly become a born-again Christian, once a person has become a Christ Follower -- he/she will have the desire to do all those things shown in the rest of your list -- those things which are the works, i.e., results, of our salvation.

 

Originally Posted by House of David:

Bill,

 

If "once saved always saved" were true......then Jesus wouldn't have gone through the trouble of saying:    "But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!"  Revelation 3:16

==========================================

 

Good point HoD,,,,,and also

 

[3] Have in mind therefore in what manner thou hast received and heard: and observe, and do penance. If then thou shalt not watch, I will come to thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know at what hour I will come to thee. [4] But thou hast a few names in Sardis, which have not defiled their garments: and they shall walk with me in white, because they are worthy. [5] He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.   Rev 3: 3-5

 

Vic,

 

Have you really considered eternal life?  How boring would it become after 1000 billion years?  Would you not beg for death?

 

Do the Hindus have it right?  I think not.  I think I have it right.  Life is for the here and now, and that's it.  Live, my son, live for the day.  Carpe Diem!  Let them say about us that we lived on our own terms and in the light of reason and goodness for goodness' sake when we die.  Let them celebrate our lives, not our deaths to an uncertain and unlikely gruesome eternity anywhere.

 

DF

Does God make idle claims?

Conditions must be met if benefits are to be received. Throughout the New Testament, the word 'if' is used many times in association with salvation. When the conditions God sets by these 'ifs' are not met then an individual can't expect to receive the rewards.

 

John 15:6----If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

So, any one who does not abide in Christ, is severed from the Vine.

Abide: to endure without yielding, to remain stable or fixed in a state.

 

1 Corinthians 15-2: "By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

Paul apparently believed that a person is only saved if they continue to believe in the gospel. If they lose faith in the gospel, presumably they lose their salvation.

Of course, Bill being a conservative theologian will say many verses refer to those who were not really initially saved, but I don't see the word "initially".

 

The first two verses of Hebrews 6:4-6 define precisely an individual who had been saved & was receiving the benefits of salvation. The last verse states clearly that a person is quite capable of falling away from the faith...and if they do so, that it is impossible for their salvation to be renewed.

 

2 Peter 2:20-21 implies that people will be more viciously treated after death by God's wrath than those people who were never saved.

 

Ephesians 5:5-6 appears to be one of several  blanket condemnations in the Bible of people who will be denied access to heaven because of their conduct. There's no exception made for saved persons. "No person" would seem to mean what it says, "no...person". God's wrath would imply permanent residence in Hell.

Since 100% of the human race does wrong or some evil sometime during their life, many scriptures imply that we are all doomed.

I could go on & on but I have to stop somewhere.

 

Originally Posted by House of David:

Bill,

If "once saved always saved" were true......then Jesus wouldn't have gone through the trouble of saying:    "But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!"  Revelation 3:16

___________________________

I rarely agree with you but in this you are right on.

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