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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
they were baptist.

Hi Nagel,

Just curious. Did they identify themselves as Baptists -- or did you just assume them to be Baptists? Were they wearing a hat which said "Baptist"?

The reason I ask is that, normally, when I witness, I never identify myself as being Baptist, only Christian.

If someone asks, I will say I am a Christian. If they insist upon a denomination -- I will tell them that I am a Baptist flavored Christian.

Why do I say it this way? Because I believe we are Christians first, and Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc., second.

My personal Statement of Faith aligns with the Baptist -- so, I tell folks I am a Baptist flavored Christian.

And, I do attend a Baptist church.

So, did they identify themselves -- or did you just assume?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


does it matter?
i said they were baptists.

you asked which flavor. i told.
now you question my answer.


i know because i rememeber the name of the local church they invited me to. the word 'baptist' was in the name of the church.

that was my first clue.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thenagel:
To answer the topic heading directly: "How Should A Christian Witness?"

The first thing Christians need to take into account is whether or not they ae welcome, and not force their evangelism upon people who have no interest in hearing it.


quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,
Christians should never act the way you described. I am not saying that Christians will not do this. For, unfortunately, some do -- just as Fred Phelps and his congregation from Kansas run around with offensive signs -- embarrassing God and all true Christians.
So, if these folks truly were from a Christian church, please allow me to make a belated apology for them. They should not be representing Jesus Christ in that way.
Bill




i didn't notice this the first time ...


apology not accepted.

you are not responsible for anyone's behavior but your own.
no one can apologize for their actions but them.

regardless of whether or not your an obnoxious jerk and a horrible example of christians, you can't take the blame for what those people did, or others like them all across the world.
all YOU can do is make sure you don't repeat their actions, or do something similar.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thenagel:
To answer the topic heading directly: "How Should A Christian Witness?"

The first thing Christians need to take into account is whether or not they ae welcome, and not force their evangelism upon people who have no interest in hearing it.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,
Christians should never act the way you described. I am not saying that Christians will not do this. For, unfortunately, some do -- just as Fred Phelps and his congregation from Kansas run around with offensive signs -- embarrassing God and all true Christians.
So, if these folks truly were from a Christian church, please allow me to make a belated apology for them. They should not be representing Jesus Christ in that way.
Bill

i didn't notice this the first time ... apology not accepted.

you are not responsible for anyone's behavior but your own. no one can apologize for their actions but them.

regardless of whether or not your an obnoxious jerk and a horrible example of christians, you can't take the blame for what those people did, or others like them all across the world.
all YOU can do is make sure you don't repeat their actions, or do something similar.

Hi Nagel,

Actually, a person who is a member of a group where another member is out of line -- can apologize for that group. So, I can say that if a Christian acted the way you describe this couple acting -- on behalf of the Christian community -- I do apologize.

If you will not accept that -- that is your problem.

And, you never told me how you knew they were Baptists. Did they identify themselves as Baptists? Just curious.

If not, then you owe the Baptists an apology for casting aspersions upon this group.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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yes, i did. in the post right about the one you replied to.

i told you they invited me to their church often. in fact the last thing they said to me was ' we'll see you on sunday morning!" as i went through the doors marked "authorized personnel only".

the name of the church the repeated invited me to has the word 'baptist' in it.

i could use the name of the church to make it clear that yes, it was a baptist church, no question possible, but i won't.

the poor actions of one misguided couple should be used as an example for the congregation.

as for the apology..
/whatever.
no one else is responsible for my actions. after my children hit 19, i am responsible for no one else actions.
if you want to accept responsibility for the actions of someone else, you go right ahead, but it won't do you any good.

i was never upset at you because of their actions, so there can't be any forgivness to you. i can't forgive your actions in this matter, because you've done nothing wrong.

it's about personal responsibility.
you didn't do it, no matter how much you'd like to be a 'spokesmen' for all christianity, you're not.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
the name of the church the repeated invited me to has the word 'baptist' in it. i could use the name of the church to make it clear that yes, it was a baptist church, no question possible, but i won't. the poor actions of one misguided couple should be used as an example for the congregation.

Hi Nagel,

Not true. As you pointed out so often, no one is responsible for your actions, and that, when you kids reach 19, you are no longer responsible for their actions -- then, how can you make the congregation responsible for the actions of this one couple?

You seem to want it both ways. You want to stand alone and not be responsible for anyone but yourself. But, you want the entire Baptist community to be responsible for the actions of one misguided couple. If you want to see if all of this congregation is like that -- visit the church, meet the other people in the congregation. You may find the others to be very nice people. It's worth a try.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
the name of the church the repeated invited me to has the word 'baptist' in it. i could use the name of the church to make it clear that yes, it was a baptist church, no question possible, but i won't. the poor actions of one misguided couple should be used as an example for the congregation.

Hi Nagel,

Not true. As you pointed out so often, no one is responsible for your actions, and that, when you kids reach 19, you are no longer responsible for their actions -- then, how can you make the congregation responsible for the actions of this one couple?

You seem to want it both ways. You want to stand alone and not be responsible for anyone but yourself. But, you want the entire Baptist community to be responsible for the actions of one misguided couple. If you want to see if all of this congregation is like that -- visit the church, meet the other people in the congregation. You may find the others to be very nice people. It's worth a try.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


good GOD man, i've done every thing i can to avoid exactly that.

you are the one who kept saying' yeah, but how do you KNOW they are christian? yeah, well, how do you KNOW they were baptist?

all i said was 'people claiming to be christian'.
i didn't even suggest that they WERE christian, just that they claimed to be.

in fact, i used them as examples of how to NOT be christian, which is what started this whole thing to begin with.

i haven't said the name of the church, and won't, for that exact reason. i'm fully aware that these people are probably not typical of that churchs membership, and so i didn't want to make the whole church look bad because of two idiots.

we wouldn't even be discussing the fact that are baptist if you hadn't pressed for details, suggesting i was just making info up and inserting my own assumptions into the situation.

of course, i did realize this is where it would end up. you've become pretty generic and predictable

either i answer your questions and provide the details of how i knew, and then have you make the claims you just did.. that i am trying to hold them responsibilities i refuse....
or if i hadn't answered the questions, then you would have implied i was just making it all up and didn't have any proof of their denomination, or even that they were christians.

it's one of the reasons you are on ignore.
you can't accept the truth when it's something you dislike, so you spin things until it's some one elses fault and no longer recognizable as the truth any more.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by The Raven:
Bill,

What do you think about Heaven's Gate and Hell's Flame's. I personally don't think this scare tactic is a good/proper way to bring souls to Christ.

Hi Raven,

I am not familiar with this. Please tell me more. Is this a church, a ministry, a book, a teaching? I have not heard of it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill



Bill- sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Heavens Gate and Hell's Flame are a ministry play production that shows what happens to peoples souls in different forms of death. Going to hell scaring tactic is used a lot. I ask you to google it to find out more.
To me it is a scare tactic in getting people, esp the young into church. Frighting people into the church seems to me wrong, but what do you think?
quote:
Originally posted by The Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by The Raven:
Bill, What do you think about Heaven's Gate and Hell's Flame's. I personally don't think this scare tactic is a good/proper way to bring souls to Christ.

Hi Raven, I am not familiar with this. Please tell me more. Is this a church, a ministry, a book, a teaching? I have not heard of it. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

Bill- sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Heavens Gate and Hell's Flame are a ministry play production that shows what happens to peoples souls in different forms of death. Going to hell scaring tactic is used a lot. I ask you to google it to find out more.

To me it is a scare tactic in getting people, esp the young into church. Frightening people into the church seems to me wrong, but what do you think?

Hi Raven,

I did google this ministry and while on the surface it looks like a good ministry; I would not recommend them until I see their Statement of Faith -- which is not shown on their web site. I just sent the following e-mail to them:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A friend recently asked me about your ministry and I googled your web site. Over the years, I have practiced and taught that when one finds a new ministry or a new ministry's web site -- the first question asked of that ministry should be, "What is your Statement of Faith, i.e., what do you believe and teach?" In searching your web site, even though what you offer looks interesting -- I could not find your Statement of Beliefs.

I did find your Mission Statement which told me that you are a "non denominational Christian evangelical organization." However, I have encountered even cult churches and ministries which say the same.

Being a conservative Christian believer I am concerned -- for your web site does not tell me who you are, nor what you believe and teach.

I will really appreciate it if you will send me information regarding your Statement of Faith. I want to respond to my friend's questions and be able to give my blessings on your ministry. However, without knowing this very important information -- I cannot recommend your ministry to anyone.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Raven, I do agree with their concept -- that of warning people that we all, individually, must make a decision to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Jesus Christ. And, that our eternal destiny depends upon which choice we, as an individual, make. Hell is real. It is not a myth and it is not a "scare tactic."

God in His perfect love, balanced by His perfect justice -- has given all people the gift of free will. Why has He done this? He wants us to love and obey Him because we love Him. If He did not give us the "free will" to choose to love and follow Him; we would just be robots -- doing only what we are programmed to do.

Would you want your spouse to marry you against his/her will? No, you want to know that your spouse married you because he/she loves you so much that life without you is unimaginable. God has those same desires; that we love Him so much that life without Him would be unthinkable.

On a balanced scale -- when one side is eternal life with God; the other side has to be eternal life without God. And, life without God means eternal life in hell. Yet, we each get to choose our own eternal home -- heaven or hell. And, that is the basic story which this ministry appears to be teaching. I will know more when they respond with their Statement of Faith.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by The Raven:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by The Raven:
Bill, What do you think about Heaven's Gate and Hell's Flame's. I personally don't think this scare tactic is a good/proper way to bring souls to Christ.

Hi Raven, I am not familiar with this. Please tell me more. Is this a church, a ministry, a book, a teaching? I have not heard of it. God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

Bill- sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Heavens Gate and Hell's Flame are a ministry play production that shows what happens to peoples souls in different forms of death. Going to hell scaring tactic is used a lot. I ask you to google it to find out more.

To me it is a scare tactic in getting people, esp the young into church. Frightening people into the church seems to me wrong, but what do you think?

Hi Raven,

I did google this ministry and while on the surface it looks like a good ministry; I would not recommend them until I see their Statement of Faith -- which is not shown on their web site. I just sent the following e-mail to them:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A friend recently asked me about your ministry and I googled your web site. Over the years, I have practiced and taught that when one finds a new ministry or a new ministry's web site -- the first question asked of that ministry should be, "What is your Statement of Faith, i.e., what do you believe and teach?" In searching your web site, even though what you offer looks interesting -- I could not find your Statement of Beliefs.

I did find your Mission Statement which told me that you are a "non denominational Christian evangelical organization." However, I have encountered even cult churches and ministries which say the same.

Being a conservative Christian believer I am concerned -- for your web site does not tell me who you are, nor what you believe and teach.

I will really appreciate it if you will send me information regarding your Statement of Faith. I want to respond to my friend's questions and be able to give my blessings on your ministry. However, without knowing this very important information -- I cannot recommend your ministry to anyone.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Raven, I do agree with their concept -- that of warning people that we all, individually, must make a decision to follow Jesus Christ or to deny Jesus Christ. And, that our eternal destiny depends upon which choice we, as an individual, make. Hell is real. It is not a myth and it is not a "scare tactic."

God in His perfect love, balanced by His perfect justice -- has given all people the gift of free will. Why has He done this? He wants us to love and obey Him because we love Him. If He did not give us the "free will" to choose to love and follow Him; we would just be robots -- doing only what we are programmed to do.

Would you want your spouse to marry you against his/her will? No, you want to know that your spouse married you because he/she loves you so much that life without you is unimaginable. God has those same desires; that we love Him so much that life without Him would be unthinkable.

On a balanced scale -- when one side is eternal life with God; the other side has to be eternal life without God. And, life without God means eternal life in hell. Yet, we each get to choose our own eternal home -- heaven or hell. And, that is the basic story which this ministry appears to be teaching. I will know more when they respond with their Statement of Faith.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
Thanks Bill. I appreciate your looking into it.
I really wish I was not so busy so that I could give a more thorough reply to this one!

There is not just one way for a Christian to witness, it is a team effort and everyone has their parts and the way one person should witness may not be the same way another person should. Of course we have the Billy Graham’s of the world who make a major impact and bring millions of people to Christ; I guess these would be the quarterbacks or something like that because they make the big plays. You also have the folks that might only assist bringing one or two people to Christ during their whole lives but those one or two that they helped with are ones who would not have come any other way, perhaps they are the water boys or something like that and of course you have all sorts of positions in between and they are all important. Some spots might be aggressive, some very low key. Some get out in person while maybe others write in a forum. Some might be foreign missionaries while others might stay at home. Some are fire and brimstone while others might only concentrate on the good news. Again, all of these spots are important to God. On this team you are never stuck in one position but there are a few things that should stay constant between all of the types of witnesses for God and a few of those are that they would never deny God, that they pursue learning more about God, that they live a respectable lifestyle, and will always witness by example and strive to live a Christian lifestyle. Another thing that people who witness for God should have in common is to be humble and to make it plain to everyone that we know we are only human and have plenty of imperfections and are just regular people like everyone else except for that part where we are forgiven Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:

I really wish I was not so busy so that I could give a more thorough reply to this one!

There is not just one way for a Christian to witness, it is a team effort and everyone has their part and the way one person should witness may not be the same way another person should. Of course we have the Billy Graham’s of the world who make a major impact and bring millions of people to Christ; I guess these would be the quarterbacks or something like that because they make the big plays.

You also have the folks that might only assist bringing one or two people to Christ during their whole lives but those one or two that they helped with are ones who would not have come any other way, perhaps they are the water boys or something like that and of course you have all sorts of positions in between and they are all important.

Some spots might be aggressive, some very low key. Some get out in person while maybe others write in a forum. Some might be foreign missionaries while others might stay at home. Some are fire and brimstone while others might only concentrate on the good news. Again, all of these spots are important to God.

On this team you are never stuck in one position but there are a few things that should stay constant between all of the types of witnesses for God and a few of those are that they would never deny God, that they pursue learning more about God, that they live a respectable lifestyle, and will always witness by example and strive to live a Christian lifestyle.

Another thing that people who witness for God should have in common is to be humble and to make it plain to everyone that we know we are only human and have plenty of imperfections and are just regular people like everyone else except for that part where we are forgiven

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quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
I really wish I was not so busy so that I could give a more thorough reply to this one!

There is not just one way for a Christian to witness, it is a team effort and everyone has their parts and the way one person should witness may not be the same way another person should. Of course we have the Billy Graham’s of the world who make a major impact and bring millions of people to Christ; I guess these would be the quarterbacks or something like that because they make the big plays. You also have the folks that might only assist bringing one or two people to Christ during their whole lives but those one or two that they helped with are ones who would not have come any other way, perhaps they are the water boys or something like that and of course you have all sorts of positions in between and they are all important. Some spots might be aggressive, some very low key. Some get out in person while maybe others write in a forum. Some might be foreign missionaries while others might stay at home. Some are fire and brimstone while others might only concentrate on the good news. Again, all of these spots are important to God. On this team you are never stuck in one position but there are a few things that should stay constant between all of the types of witnesses for God and a few of those are that they would never deny God, that they pursue learning more about God, that they live a respectable lifestyle, and will always witness by example and strive to live a Christian lifestyle. Another thing that people who witness for God should have in common is to be humble and to make it plain to everyone that we know we are only human and have plenty of imperfections and are just regular people like everyone else except for that part where we are forgiven Smiler
BFred07- that was an excellent analogy and I couldn't agree with you more! As Bill put it.........AMEN!!!!

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