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NOTE:  While a part of this post was written in response to Kate Colombo's discussion titled "Muxes" -- when I began to post my writing in my Facebook Notes, I found that I needed to add quite a bit of additional information.  So, since the TD Forums will not allow one to edit a post after ten minutes -- it seemed that I have no alternative but to post the full writing as a new discussion.  I pray that you understand.

 


 

Hi to my Forum Friends,

On the Religion Forum, a Forum Friend, who I believe claims to be atheist, began a new discussion by posting a link to an article titled "The Muxes of Mexico: Inside The Community Where Cross-dressing Has Been Accepted Since The Time Of The Aztecs” and which begins:

"Far from being marginalized or persecuted, the homosexuals of the 'pueblo oaxacaqueno de Juchitan' in southern Mexico, with their striking dress and intricate makeup, are revered and have been since the time of the Aztecs."  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...ted-time-Aztecs.html

 

My Forum Friend comments, "Each family has a Muxes.  Interesting that one says his family made him that way."

First, I must refute your first statement.  Having a homosexual, transgender, cross dresser, etc., in a family is not the norm -- but, is, by far, the exception.  That is especially true in America where homosexuals are less that 2% of the 313.9 million (2012) population of America.

In the Huffington Post article titled "Gay Population In U.S. Estimated At 4 Million, Gary Gates Says"
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...timate_n_846348.html) we read:

SAN FRANCISCO — How many gay men and lesbians are there in the United States? Gary Gates has an idea but acknowledges pinpointing a solid figure remains an elusive task.

Gates is demographer-in-residence at the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy, a think tank based at the University of California, Los Angeles. For the institute's 10th anniversary this week, he took a scholarly stab at answering the question that has been debated, avoided, p****d and proven both insoluble and political since pioneering sex researcher Alfred Kinsey said in the 1940s that 10 percent of the men he surveyed were "predominantly homosexual."

Gates' best estimate, derived from five studies that have asked subjects about their sexual orientation, is that the nation has about 4 million adults who identify as being gay or lesbian, representing 1.7 percent of the 18-and-over population.

 

And, if we look at the total population of America: 313.9 million (2012) -- that 4 million tells us that only 1.27% of all Americans are gay

 

Why is that tiny minority able to change the laws of marriage for all Americans?  One reason is that we have a liberal president who is pro-gay; and we have a liberal Senate which is pro-gay, and we have many pro-gay liberals in the Congress.

Add to that the Liberal Theology churches that deny the Written Word of God, the Bible, which tells us that the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination -- and these Liberal Theology churches declare the homosexual lifestyle to be the new societal norm.  In other words, they throw out God's Word -- and replace it with Society's Word.

Now, back to the Huffington Post article titled "The Muxes of Mexico: Inside The Community Where Cross-dressing Has Been Accepted Since The Time Of The Aztecs” -- it does not go back far enough.

Actually, homosexuality goes back to early Old Testament days, i.e., Sodom and Gomorrah, and was prevalent in New Testament days, especially in Rome.   Many historians attribute Rome's corrupt sexual lifestyle to be a large part of the fall of Rome.

In prehistoric times, when the people we now call Indians (a misnomer attributed to Columbus) migrated from Siberia, across the Bering bridge, into North America (Alaska) -- and then, over thousands of years, migrated down into all of North and South America -- there were homosexuals and bisexuals.  Although all Native America nations, with their varying languages, had different words for the homosexual; a common name and one used by anthropologist is the word "berdache" which basically meant "two spirits."

Those people we now call Native Americans, even from the first to cross the Bering bridge in prehistoric days -- did not understand the homosexuals, and in their superstitions and pantheistic religions believed this "two spirit" person to have special spiritual abilities.  So, the homosexual often became medicine men/women, or some other set apart spiritual function.  All of this was basically because these early Americans knew these people were different -- and, in their simple, superstitious religions -- gave them special treatment.

In our more advanced society and culture today -- we know it is not a "two spirit" thing -- but, a psychological disorder brought on by family environments and societal pressures.

My Forum Friend tells us of the article, "Interesting that one says his family made him that way."

And, that agrees with what I just wrote.

We are not to hate the homosexual, we are not to ostracize the homosexual -- but, we are not to do as the early Indian tribes did in their pantheistic superstitions and religions -- and make special laws just for homosexuals.

That is discrimination against the heterosexuals of our nation who still live a normal lifestyle -- to set aside those who have chosen an aberrant lifestyle and make special laws just for them.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

1 - Bible_Open-FAMILY-GROW

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

NOTE:  While a part of this post was written in response to Kate Colombo's discussion titled "Muxes" -- when I began to post my writing in my Facebook Notes, I found that I needed to add quite a bit of additional information. 

 

There is a difference between bigoted hatred, and "information", but go ahead with your #1 diatribe.  Most of it is just more of the same. 

 

 

And, if we look at the total population of America: 313.9 million (2012) -- that 4 million tells us that only 1.27% of all Americans are gay

 

Why is that tiny minority able to change the laws of marriage for all Americans? 

 

They've only managed in some states to get the laws changed regarding themselves.  They haven't stopped the rest of us from getting married.  Nothing about the laws have affected my marriage or your marriage, Johhny.  None of of the new laws has affected the rest of us in any way.

 

In our more advanced culture today -- we know it is not a "two spirit" thing -- but, a psychological disorder brought on by family environments and societal pressures.

 

I don't know what you are reading that says this, but it isn't by any reputable person in the fields of biology, medicine, biochemistry, neuroscience, psychiatry, psychology, or fetal development.  The "psychological disorder" theory has been abandoned by all except for the Liars for Jesus.

Add to that the Liberal Theology churches that deny the Written Word of God, the Bible, which tells us that the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination -- and these Liberal Theology churches declare the homosexual lifestyle to be the new societal norm.  In other words, they throw out God's Word -- and replace it with Society's Word.

 

No one claims it is the social norm.  Just that for those who are homosexual it is normal for them.  Just like it is normal to be attracted to dark skinned women for some.  You're arguments are the same as those used by bigots who oppose interracial marriage.  You should be ashamed of yourself, Bill.


Those people we now call Native Americans, even from the first to cross the Bering bridge in prehistoric days ....

 

This is a complete fail in historical interpretation.  As usual.  Let's start with the idea that Native Americans crossed in prehistoric days - they did in fact do so.  But the problem here is that you claim the Bible is a history from the first day, some six thousand years ago.  That would mean there are no prehistoric times. 

In our more advanced culture today -- we know it is not a "two spirit" thing -- but, a psychological disorder brought on by family environments and societal pressures.

 

I know that you know that you are lying, here.  Why don't you repeat this nonsense a few more times in the hope that it will be true? 

That is discrimination against the heterosexuals of our nation who still live a normal lifestyle -- to set aside those who have chosen an aberrant lifestyle and make special laws just for them.

 

Balderdash and poppycock.  Were this true, you would have yet to be married.

 

 

Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "No one claims it is the social norm.  Just that for those who are homosexual it is normal for them.  Just like it is normal to be attracted to dark skinned women for some.  You're arguments are the same as those used by bigots who oppose interracial marriage.  You should be ashamed of yourself, Bill."

 

Using your logic, being an alcoholic is normal for the alcoholic.  And, being a rapist is normal for th rapist.  And being drug addict is normal for the drug addict.

 

Wow, my Friend, you do live in an odd world.

 

Bless your "normal" little heart!

 

Bill

Better Friends - Daffy Duck

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "No one claims it is the social norm.  Just that for those who are homosexual it is normal for them.  Just like it is normal to be attracted to dark skinned women for some.  You're arguments are the same as those used by bigots who oppose interracial marriage.  You should be ashamed of yourself, Bill."

 

Using your logic, being an alcoholic is normal for the alcoholic.  And, being a rapist is normal for th rapist.  And being drug addict is normal for the drug addict.

 

______________________

To some extent that is correct.  Rapists are sociopaths.  Drug addicts and alcoholics generally have a genetic disposition to addiction. They are still allowed to marry others of their choice, unless they happen to be gay. 

 

I know where you are going with this, but rape involves non-consensual actions and isn't to be tolerated by society. If a rapist somehow doesn't act out his predilections, he is allowed to carry on with his life.

 

There are laws against behavior by addicts where their actions while under the influence harm other people, such as DUI and physical abuse of others.  There are programs to help those people control their behavior.  You will notice that those programs recognize once an addict, always an addict, no matter how long one has been on the wagon.

 

As to homosexuals, just like any other people with unusual sexual preferences, they harm no one as long as their partners are consenting. 

 

When it comes to opposing gay marriage, your toolbox is empty.  Please don't quote Leviticus to me while you still eat bacon, and Paul's only authority is Leviticus.  Jesus incarnate is silent on the issue.  So should you be.

 

Hi Kate,

 

Although I thought that you had told me earlier that you are atheist, I was not sure. That is why I wrote, "who I believe claims to be atheist,"   I apologize for getting your position wrong.  Where do you stand on God and Christianity?

 

And, it did appear to me that the comment, "Each family has a Muxes.  Interesting that one says his family made him that way" -- was yours.  If not, I apologize for indicating that.  However, my response to this statement, regardless who wrote it, still stands.

 

Thank you for the corrections.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT-1_Outline

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Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "As to homosexuals, just like any other people with unusual sexual preferences, they harm no one as long as their partners are consenting."

 

That would be good -- if it were true.  Unfortunately, as I have shown in many posts -- the gay activists are not satisfied to just be allowed to live their gay lifestyle.  They are determined to go after the children -- and that is why they are active in promoting gay programs and curriculums starting in Kindergarten, and now even PreSchool -- seeking to win those vulnerable young minds to the homosexual persuasion.

 

The small minority of gays in America, less than 2%, want to change the laws of the majority to accommodate their small, aberrant minority.

 

As long as they stay in their own bedrooms, let them do as they like.  But, when the invade the classrooms, when they invade the laws of our nation in their attempt to make our laws adapt to their aberrant lifestyle -- then, they most certainly are doing harm

 

They are harming families in their attempts to destroy marriage; they are harming our young children by attempting to infect their young minds; they are insulting me by their overt disgraceful public displays of their homosexuality.

 

Personally, whether a couple is heterosexuals or homosexuals -- personal displays of a sexual nature belong in their bedroom -- not on the public streets.  And, not in public parades.

 

Yes, the gay community is doing harm to America.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Gay-Teacher-1e

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Crusty, my Friend,

 

You keep making loud claims like this -- but all you give us is YOUR word.  I would say that YOUR word and $2 will get me a cup of coffee.

 

If you do have a report to prove what you have said --  which was NOT written by an atheist -- please show us.  Otherwise, all you are doing is passing gas.

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

EVER GET THE FEELING THAT

AN ADMIRER IS FOLLOWING YOU?

LIKE SOMEONE HUNG UP ON NUMBERS?

Dogs-Sniffing-2

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Why don't we just ask your friends at Christian International who committed years of fraudulent and harmful activity against gays.

 

Link

 

Here is my proof, Bill.  Ask anyone who isn't bisexual such as yourself when they chose their sexuality, and they will say they didn't.

 

If God and his FRANS at Christian International can't convert gays, I doubt the gay community will be more successful. 

 

But, I will post a link to just one of the thousands of reputable articles that I Googled (Google is your friend, Bill).  Link

 

Some excerpts from the article: 

 

"Being straight, gay, or bisexual is not something that a person can choose or choose to change. In fact, people don't choose their sexual orientation any more than they choose their height or eye color."

 

"Despite myths and misconceptions, there is no evidence that being gay is caused by early childhood experiences, parenting styles, or the way someone is raised."

 

Now, where is your proof that heterosexuals are actually being converted to homosexuality? 

 

Oh, and just for the record, in Florence, AL my word is actually worth something.

 

Hi Crusty,

 

WOW!   You found a few LIBERAL sites which claim folks are born gay!  Surprise!  Surprise!  Surprise!

 

However, the Bible (you know, that book from God) tells us a different view.   Even though I know YOU will always follow the crowd, especially the LIBERAL crowd -- personally, I believe I will follow what God has told us.

 

Joshua 24:15, “If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: . . . but as for me and my house, we will serve (and believe)the LORD.”

 

Crusty, my Friend, I realize that this Scripture verse means nothing to you, being a liberal non-believer -- but, for me, it IS the Gospel Truth!

 

You tell me, "Oh, and just for the record, in Florence, AL my word is actually worth something."

 

Really?  What are you -- a member of the School Board?  Running for some other office?  Or just believe that because you live in Florence -- people believe your convoluted view of the Christian faith?

 

Sorry, my Friend, but all you are doing is sniffing around, looking for something, anything, to support your misguided lack of faith -- and arguing with anyone who does share the Truth with you.

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Dogs-Sniffing-2

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I found thousands of scientific websites that support my claim.  What have you shown to support that anyone can be converted?  I'm curious, where in the Bible are heterosexuals converted to homosexuality, or vice versa?

 

I guess you still believe that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it, that disease is caused by vapors, that stars are candles in heaven, that compasses are magical, that dinosaurs walked with men....  of course you do. 

 

The only people shouting your nonsense are the brain-washed fundamentalists.  The heresy you commit won't serve you well when you get to Hell.

 

 

Hi Crusty,

 

You tell me, "Oh, and just for the record, in Florence, AL my word is actually worth something."

 

Really?  What are you -- a member of the School Board?  Running for some other office?  Or just believe that because you live in Florence -- people believe your convoluted view of the Christian faith?

 

Sorry, my Friend, but all you are doing is sniffing around, looking for something, anything, to support your misguided lack of faith -- and arguing with anyone who does share the Truth with you.

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Dogs-Sniffing-2

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I found thousands of scientific websites that support my claim.  What have you shown to support that anyone can be converted?  I'm curious, where in the Bible are heterosexuals converted to homosexuality, or vice versa?

 

I guess you still believe that the earth is the center of the universe and everything revolves around it, that disease is caused by vapors, that stars are candles in heaven, that compasses are magical, that dinosaurs walked with men....  of course you do. 

 

The only people shouting your nonsense are the brain-washed fundamentalists.  The heresy you commit won't serve you well when you get to Hell.

 

More questions, Bill won't answer.

Hi all,

 

Attempting to dialogue with some folks is like shouting into an empty cave -- all we get back are echos, long dead echos.   But, what can I say?  Some folks just do not have the ability to carry a civil, intelligent discussion.  And, in Christian love we must be patient with them.

 

Bless his heart!

 

Bill

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This is just you doing the Fundy Two Step, dodging legitimate questions, and blowing smoke. 

 

I have found thousands of reputable legitimate websites to support my position (of which I gave you three), you have offered nothing. 

 

Give us one reputable scientific site that says sexual preference is a matter of choice.  Show me in the Bible one person that ever had their sexual preferences changed.  Why didn't Jesus heal the homosexuals?

 

For you to carry on an intelligent discussion you will either have to be de-programmed, or have your IQ raised about 90 points. 

 

Oh, and to answer your asinine question, no I'm not running for anything.  My word is worth dollars and cents.  What can you get with yours?

 

Run away Bill.  You've been handed your ass once again.

Hi Crusty,

Here's one more source which shows that homosexual behavior can be changed.  Obviously since it can be changed, that person was not born "gay" as you would wish to believe.


‘Gay’ Lawmaker to Christians: ‘We’ll Take Your Children’

http://conservativebase.com/71...-take-your-children/

Aug 29 2013, in Commentary, by Matt Barber

Moreover, the Archives of Sexual Behavior – no bastion of conservatism – determined in a 2001 study that nearly half of all gay-identified men were molested by a homosexual pedophile: 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender” noted the study.

For instance, both New Jersey Democrats and Christie cited the American Psychological Association, or APA, as justification for this gross infringement on the right of self-determination.

 

Although, no doubt, the highly liberal APA supports this and similar Sandusky Laws for political reasons, the group’s own task force on change therapy – led entirely by members who themselves are “gay”-identified or known political activists – has had to admit, nonetheless, that homosexuality itself “refers to feelings and self-concept.”

The task force confessed that such therapy has shown “varying degrees of satisfaction and varying perceptions of success.”  It acknowledged within its own skewed, very limited “study” that some people had “altered their sexual orientation. … [P]articipants had multiple endpoints, including LGB identity, ex-gay identity, no sexual orientation identity, and a unique self-identity. … Individuals report a range of effects from their efforts to change their sexual orientation, including both benefits and harm.”

Reports of “both benefits and harm”?  Exactly what might be expected from any form of therapy.

 

Note:  Matt Barber is an attorney concentrating in constitutional law.  He serves as Vice President of Liberty Counsel Action.

 

There you have it, my Friend, the experts acknowledge that homosexuality is a matter of "feelings and self-concept" -- and not from being born with a "gay gene."

But, of course, you cannot accept that conclusion -- for then you could not blame God.  Whatever!

Or, as the Valley Girls would say, "Well, duh!"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 

Paula Ettlebrick On The Gay Agenda

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Ah, Bill, another failure on your part.  The 2001 study that is the basis of your claim was conducted by one Dr. Robert Spitzer. 

 

Here is his retraction and apology:

 

Link

 

"I believe I owe the gay community an apology for my study making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy. I also apologize to any gay person who wasted time and energy undergoing some form of reparative therapy because they believed that I had proven that reparative therapy works with some “highly motivated” individuals."

 

The studies that the fundamentalist nut-jobs such as yourself will pull up have all been repudiated as was the one you quoted here.   You need to get current. 

 

As for Matt Barber, he is an attorney, and not a biologist, neurologist, or in any way associated with science. 

 

There you have it, my Friend, the experts acknowledge that homosexuality is biological in nature.

But, of course, you cannot accept that conclusion because it would collapse the house of cards you have as a belief system. 

 

I don't blame God for anything.  It is you that does that.

 

Bless your delusional little heart.

quote: Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Ah, Bill, another failure on your part.  The 2001 study that is the basis of your claim was conducted by one Dr. Robert Spitzer

Hi Crusty,

 

My Friend, I have long known you have a reading comprehension problem.  But, when you say I quoted Dr. Robert Spitzer -- you might want to look again:

 

‘Gay’ Lawmaker to Christians: ‘We’ll Take Your Children’

http://conservativebase.com/71...-take-your-children/

Aug 29 2013, in Commentary, by Matt Barber

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 YET, CRUSTY WOULD ARGUE WITH HER,

A DEVOUT LESBIAN ACTIVIST!

WELL, DUH!

Camille Paglia - Lesbian Activist - No One Is Born Gay

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

Here's one more source which shows that homosexual behavior can be changed.  Obviously since it can be changed, that person was not born "gay" as you would wish to believe.


‘Gay’ Lawmaker to Christians: ‘We’ll Take Your Children’

http://conservativebase.com/71...-take-your-children/

Aug 29 2013, in Commentary, by Matt Barber

Moreover, the Archives of Sexual Behavior – no bastion of conservatism – determined in a 2001 study that nearly half of all gay-identified men were molested by a homosexual pedophile: “46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender” noted the study.

For instance, both New Jersey Democrats and Christie cited the American Psychological Association, or APA, as justification for this gross infringement on the right of self-determination.

 

Although, no doubt, the highly liberal APA supports this and similar Sandusky Laws for political reasons, the group’s own task force on change therapy – led entirely by members who themselves are “gay”-identified or known political activists – has had to admit, nonetheless, that homosexuality itself “refers to feelings and self-concept.”

The task force confessed that such therapy has shown “varying degrees of satisfaction and varying perceptions of success.”  It acknowledged within its own skewed, very limited “study” that some people had “altered their sexual orientation. … [P]articipants had multiple endpoints, including LGB identity, ex-gay identity, no sexual orientation identity, and a unique self-identity. … Individuals report a range of effects from their efforts to change their sexual orientation, including both benefits and harm.”

Reports of “both benefits and harm”?  Exactly what might be expected from any form of therapy.

 

Note:  Matt Barber is an attorney concentrating in constitutional law.  He serves as Vice President of Liberty Counsel Action.

 

There you have it, my Friend, the experts acknowledge that homosexuality is a matter of "feelings and self-concept" -- and not from being born with a "gay gene."

But, of course, you cannot accept that conclusion -- for then you could not blame God.  Whatever!

Or, as the Valley Girls would say, "Well, duh!"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

 

Paula Ettlebrick On The Gay Agenda

Simon Levay - No Gay Gene

No wonder you get blasted here...regularly.

 

You are one warped ****.

 

Spreading your hate...standing on your "Better than Thou" soap box.

 

Obviously...you have no life. Other than...trying to reap sorrow on others. Pitiful wretch as you are.

How about that "God is Love" sheet?

YOU, Sir...show NO Love...

other than your Narcissistic  Love...of "Thin own Self"

Pathetic...

Get a Life...Looser!

Preach On!

 

Have a "Blessed Day"?...Nope...

"May Thee get hit by a Bus"....

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote: Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

Ah, Bill, another failure on your part.  The 2001 study that is the basis of your claim was conducted by one Dr. Robert Spitzer

Hi Crusty,

 

My Friend, I have long known you have a reading comprehension problem.  But, when you say I quoted Dr. Robert Spitzer -- you might want to look again:

 

‘Gay’ Lawmaker to Christians: ‘We’ll Take Your Children’

http://conservativebase.com/71...-take-your-children/

Aug 29 2013, in Commentary, by Matt Barber

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

_______________

You are correct, Bill.  My second posting refutes that particular article.  My first repudiates the whole sexual preference conversion argument. 

 

Pay attention.

 

As for Camille Paglia, she is no scientist.  She's a radical feminist who will say anything to bring attention to herself.  A liberal Anne Coulter, if you will.  You have a strange bedfellow from someone who claims that "God is man's greatest idea." 

 

 

Last edited by CrustyMac
quote:   Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
No wonder you get blasted here...regularly.  You are one warped ****.   Spreading your hate...standing on your "Better than Thou" soap box.

 

Obviously...you have no life.  Other than...trying to reap sorrow on others.  Pitiful wretch as you are.  How about that "God is Love" sheet?   YOU, Sir...show NO Love...  other than your Narcissistic  Love...of "Thin own Self"  Pathetic...  Get a Life...Looser!   Preach On!

 

Have a "Blessed Day"?...   Nope...  "May Thee get hit by a Bus".... 

Hi Roland,

 

You say, "How about that "God is Love" sheet?   YOU, Sir...show NO Love..." 

 

My Friend, I must remind you that true "love" is not always giving a tantrum throwing child candy to shut him up.  There is such a thing as "tough love" which tells that child, "I love you enough to NOT give you candy!"

 

And, that is the kind of love God has for all of us.   "For God so loved the world (that is you, me, and all of His created people), that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"  (John 3:16).

 

Would YOU give your son to save another?  Yet, that is what God has done; He sent His Son to die in the place of you and me -- so that we might be able to choose to have eternal life, instead of eternal death.  That, my Friend, is LOVE!

 

Roland, this tirade you have posted very much reminds of a child throwing a tantrum -- because those darn Christians will not validate, authenticate, endorse, encourage, and reinforce YOUR chosen life of denying God. 

 

Sorry, my Friend, but we Christians love you too much to help you choose eternal destruction.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 Peter 3-15 - Walk In The Park

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