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quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
OH MY, there is this culture of anger that seems to infect this type of debating. The smallest error becomes the cause of a reply, that escalates, eventually two good people are enemies.


While I admire your sate for the mastery of all things you’ve accomplished, truly when I say I misread your previous post, I did. No need to try to belittle me as an enemy. I misread your post, plain and simple. Do you want me to wave a white flag? I.Made.A.Mistake. I wasn’t unprepared to debate you. I just think that from your previous post, you insinuate that conservatives, by way of exploitation, are the cause of terrorism.
You say: “When are conservatives going to realize that exploitation has consequences. That exploitation of American workers motivated the Union Movement. Exploitation of American Blacks motivated the Civil Rights Movement. Exploitation of Native land motivated the Indian Wars. Exploitation is the problem, and terrorism is the reaction.”

Seems like this statement depicts conservatives as the sole cause of terrorism. Do you feel conservatives are the root of terrorism?
quote:
Originally posted by just saying:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
OH MY, there is this culture of anger that seems to infect this type of debating. The smallest error becomes the cause of a reply, that escalates, eventually two good people are enemies.


While I admire your sate for the mastery of all things you’ve accomplished, truly when I say I misread your previous post, I did. No need to try to belittle me as an enemy. I misread your post, plain and simple. Do you want me to wave a white flag? I.Made.A.Mistake. I wasn’t unprepared to debate you. I just think that from your previous post, you insinuate that conservatives, by way of exploitation, are the cause of terrorism.
You say: “When are conservatives going to realize that exploitation has consequences. That exploitation of American workers motivated the Union Movement. Exploitation of American Blacks motivated the Civil Rights Movement. Exploitation of Native land motivated the Indian Wars. Exploitation is the problem, and terrorism is the reaction.”

Seems like this statement depicts conservatives as the sole cause of terrorism. Do you feel conservatives are the root of terrorism?


Now we are on topic. Direct answer, NO. Most conservatives are interested in preserving a society that is adequate to provide for their personal well being.

We have a class society, and want an egalatarian society. Most Conservatives want an egalatarian society, and will generally work for it. Most consservatives, at least people who vote conservative are as much victims of exploitation as anyone else. As voters we're all in the same strata, under the great storm clouds that are shaping the world we live in. I did bring up the civil rights movement of the 60's to point to that obvious exploitation of a segment of our society.

That exploitation COST AMERICAN LIVES. People died getting rid of Jim Crow. Most of, if not all of, the dead came from the ranks of the exploited.

I AM SAYING THAT EXPLOITATION CAUSES TERRORISM.

At the moment, two nations are being demonized by the Conservative POWER structure. And it is CONSERVATIVISM IN ITS NEO CONSERVATIVE FORM.

Those two countries are Iran and Venezuela. Iran has a well educated population, a high standard of living, and HUGE oil resources that are being sold on the world market. The Iranian government is collecting royalties on the extraction of the oil, and in some cases OWN AND SELL the oil. The revenue is being used to provide amoung other things, universal education, universal health care, roads, sewers water supplies and hospitals. The money for these services is coming from the buyers of the oil, including you and me. Neo Conservatism wants that to STOP IMMEDIATELY. The same as it is not happening in Mexico, Lybia, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria.

Keep in mind, MOST OF THE HIJACKERS ON 9/11 WERE SAUDI. Nigeria is a hot bed of terrorist actions against AMEICAN OWNED OIL PRODUCERS. Osama Bin Laden is A SAUDI. Venezuela is EXPENDING ITS OIL ROYALTIES ON HOPITALS, SCHOOLS AND LITERACY PROGRAMS. In Fact, Venezuela is trading OIL to Cuba in exchange for Medical Doctors and Dentists that Cuba pays with the money it makes selling gasoline to Cubans.

Venezuela has been the target of REPEATED US efforts to take over the government.

So, what I am arguing is this. Exploitation, unfair labor standards and unfair resource development in particular, is the cause of terrorism. Terrorism is a reaction to the poverty that continues in situations were labor and resources are externally controlled.
quote:
Originally posted by tdreader:
quote:
Originally posted by FatNoMo:
The Pentagon announced TODAY the formation of a new 500-man elite fighting unit called the United States Redneck Special Forces (USRSF). These Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Virginia, West Virginia, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas boys will be dropped off into Iraq and have been given only the following facts about terrorists:

1. The season opened today.
2. There is no limit.
3. They taste just like chicken.
4. They don't like beer, pickups, country music or Jesus.
5. They are directly responsible for the death of Dale Earnhardt.

The Pentagon expects the problem in Iraq to be over within days.


DISCLAIMER: I mean no disrespect to any of our soldiers – I just found this comical.


That trumps any satire I have posted.



T.Y. I wish I could take credit for it but I can't. It was e-mailed to me . . .
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by imho:

The fundamental difference in those that support and don't support the war in Iraq seems to be based on whether it is against terrorists or not.

<SNIP>
Iraq was becoming the next Afghanistan. There were terrorist training camps and the government openly supported financing terrorists and their families.

<SNIP>
When are liberals going to realize that terrorists hate us and will hate us regardless of if we fight back or not?


Right as Rain imho terrorists, retalliating for exploitation, are not goint to stop as long as the exploitation continues.



Another EdEKit misquote and twisting words:

You are WRONG!
God help you if you believe that terrorists are only lashing out at us because of our actions against them.

Did you support conservatives stand on the Cold War? Were you afraid we might make everyone mad enough to push the button on a nuke attack?

There is responsibility that comes with being a SUPER POWER, and it doesn't include being liberal, cut and run, quitters.
quote:
Originally posted by imho:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by imho:

The fundamental difference in those that support and don't support the war in Iraq seems to be based on whether it is against terrorists or not.

<SNIP>
Iraq was becoming the next Afghanistan. There were terrorist training camps and the government openly supported financing terrorists and their families.

<SNIP>
When are liberals going to realize that terrorists hate us and will hate us regardless of if we fight back or not?


Right as Rain imho terrorists, retalliating for exploitation, are not going to stop as long as the exploitation continues.



Another EdEKit misquote and twisting words:

You are WRONG!
God help you if you believe that terrorists are only lashing out at us because of our actions against them.

Did you support conservatives stand on the Cold War? Were you afraid we might make everyone mad enough to push the button on a nuke attack?

There is responsibility that comes with being a SUPER POWER, and it doesn't include being liberal, cut and run, quitters.
I would sure like to have your insight into this terrorism. First off, there is the issue of Israel, the issue of American Troops in the Muslim Holy land and around Mecca, (that's in Saudi Arabia) and the American interference in the governments in the region, and American Corporate recalcitrance, and the poverty that accompanies the exploitation of resources without regard to the people who live where the resources are, there is the issue of Cowboys and Arabs.

Then, there is the fact that we had a couple of centuries with the Muslims leaving us alone, and then helping us defeat a common enemy, and our helping the Taliban in their war against Soviet Occupation. That war draind the Soviets so thouroughly that they collapsed, and still face terrorism from Cheneya.

I was in the army when the Berlin Wall was Built, in Gernamy the day the Soviets CLOSED THE DOOR. I was in Virginia when the Cuban Missile Crisis came and went. I was in shock troops in both cases. In August of 61, I stood 50 yard from the border with Checoslovakia, with an M 1 and 16 rounds of ammunition while Soviet tanks patrolled on their side of the line. I awaited orders to move out for Cuba during the missile crisis. YOU BETTER BELIEVE I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT NUKES. My primary assignment in Germany was in a TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS PLATOON.

There is a responsibility in being a Super Power. It is restraint in the face of provocation.
quote:
Originally posted by e:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
TERRORISM CANNOT BE FOUGHT BY AN ARMY. AGAIN, TERRORISM CANNOT BE FOUGHT BY AN ARMY. REPEAT AFTER ME, "TERRORISM CANNOT BE FOUGHT BY AN ARMY."


EdEKit,

I think it's a shame that the Army can't fight an abstract entity. If it could, I'd vote "YES!" for a war to defeat ignorance.


I have been thinking about the "war on ignorance" for a while, and you have a great slogan there. My complaint with th emedia is not the slant to the right it has, but its willingness to treat us like mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us Horse Biscuits.

We could have a public school system and teach history and basic economics, and perhaps a litte ethics too. We could include the values of Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living, and possibily a little support for doing as Mom and Dad Tell you.

We could put Reading into the curriculum and Mathmatics, with a dose of Civics and Constitution, along with classes on cultural sensitivity, and maybe even a little time on science and the Arts.

But, the Religious right would insist on the ten Commandments, and Creation Science, and ABSTAINANCE. and God only knows what else, and pretty soon there would not be time to teach anything because the students would be arguing that the liberals were controlling the classroom and forcing kids to learn the truth.
We could have a public school system and teach history and basic economics, and perhaps a litte ethics too. We could include the values of Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living, and possibily a little support for doing as Mom and Dad Tell you.

We could put Reading into the curriculum and Mathmatics, with a dose of Civics and Constitution, along with classes on cultural sensitivity, and maybe even a little time on science and the Arts.

But, the Religious right would insist on the ten Commandments, and Creation Science, and ABSTAINANCE. and God only knows what else, and pretty soon there would not be time to teach anything because the students would be arguing that the liberals were controlling the classroom and forcing kids to learn the truth.
------------------------------------------------

Where do you think that little bit of "ethics" you are talking about came from? Same thing for Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living and children obeying your parents?
They did not come from some group of people who said "This is the way we should live." They came from a Supreme Creator who literally communicated to man (who was NOT living this way)that this is the way we are to live.

But, now I've been labeled as part of the Religious Right...and who am I to force someone to learn the truth...
quote:
Originally posted by CWC:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
We could have a public school system and teach history and basic economics, and perhaps a litte ethics too. We could include the values of Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living, and possibily a little support for doing as Mom and Dad Tell you.

We could put Reading into the curriculum and Mathmatics, with a dose of Civics and Constitution, along with classes on cultural sensitivity, and maybe even a little time on science and the Arts.

But, the Religious right would insist on the ten Commandments, and Creation Science, and ABSTAINANCE. and God only knows what else, and pretty soon there would not be time to teach anything because the students would be arguing that the liberals were controlling the classroom and forcing kids to learn the truth.



Where do you think that little bit of "ethics" you are talking about came from? Same thing for Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living and children obeying your parents?
They did not come from some group of people who said "This is the way we should live." They came from a Supreme Creator who literally communicated to man (who was NOT living this way)that this is the way we are to live.

But, now I've been labeled as part of the Religious Right...and who am I to force someone to learn the truth...


Great post. It is a shame that to speak of anything Biblical makes us the "religious right."

But I don't mind... I am RELIGIOUS, and I AM RIGHT (as are you CWC).

So EdEKit, since you have gone off topic, what is the difference in forcing people to be taught the THEORY of Evolution or be taught SEX Education and forcing people to be taught the Bible, the creation story, and abstinence?

And what in the world is wrong with teaching abstinence? If abstinence is wrong then what exactly is right?
quote:
Originally posted by imho:
quote:
Originally posted by CWC:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
We could have a public school system and teach history and basic economics, and perhaps a litte ethics too. We could include the values of Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living, and possibily a little support for doing as Mom and Dad Tell you.

We could put Reading into the curriculum and Mathmatics, with a dose of Civics and Constitution, along with classes on cultural sensitivity, and maybe even a little time on science and the Arts.

But, the Religious right would insist on the ten Commandments, and Creation Science, and ABSTAINANCE. and God only knows what else, and pretty soon there would not be time to teach anything because the students would be arguing that the liberals were controlling the classroom and forcing kids to learn the truth.



Where do you think that little bit of "ethics" you are talking about came from? Same thing for Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living and children obeying your parents?
They did not come from some group of people who said "This is the way we should live." They came from a Supreme Creator who literally communicated to man (who was NOT living this way)that this is the way we are to live.

But, now I've been labeled as part of the Religious Right...and who am I to force someone to learn the truth...


Great post. It is a shame that to speak of anything Biblical makes us the "religious right."

But I don't mind... I am RELIGIOUS, and I AM RIGHT (as are you CWC).

So EdEKit, since you have gone off topic, what is the difference in forcing people to be taught the THEORY of Evolution or be taught SEX Education and forcing people to be taught the Bible, the creation story, and abstinence?

And what in the world is wrong with teaching abstinence? If abstinence is wrong then what exactly is right?


You are right, The topic is how to End the War.

THE FACT IS THE WAR IS IMMORAL, UNETHICAL, ILLEGAL, AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND IF YOU HAD STUDIED A LITTLE ETHICS, CIVICS, CONSTITUTION AND SUCH YOU WOULD KNOW THAT, AND BE TRYING HARD TO END THE WAR.

Now, I will SAY THIS AGAIN, AS I HAVE SAID IT BERORE IN THIS FORUM.

Ethics and Morality are NOT BASED ON THE BIBLE. The Bible is based on Ethics and Morality. Ethics and Morality are virtually universal in all cultures, including the cultures that have multiple gods, worship their ancestors, find the study of peace and love to be the path to true happiness, and HAVE A PURELY SCIENTIFIC BASIS.

What is wrong with teaching "Creation Science" alongside "Evolutionary Theory" is the fact that cultural Ethics and Morality ALSO EVOLVED, And are still evolving even within the Practice of the Christian Religion.
quote:
Originally posted by imho:
quote:
Originally posted by CWC:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
We could have a public school system and teach history and basic economics, and perhaps a litte ethics too. We could include the values of Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living, and possibily a little support for doing as Mom and Dad Tell you.

We could put Reading into the curriculum and Mathmatics, with a dose of Civics and Constitution, along with classes on cultural sensitivity, and maybe even a little time on science and the Arts.

But, the Religious right would insist on the ten Commandments, and Creation Science, and ABSTAINANCE. and God only knows what else, and pretty soon there would not be time to teach anything because the students would be arguing that the liberals were controlling the classroom and forcing kids to learn the truth.



Where do you think that little bit of "ethics" you are talking about came from? Same thing for Honesty, Integrity, wholesome living and children obeying your parents?
They did not come from some group of people who said "This is the way we should live." They came from a Supreme Creator who literally communicated to man (who was NOT living this way)that this is the way we are to live.

But, now I've been labeled as part of the Religious Right...and who am I to force someone to learn the truth...


Great post. It is a shame that to speak of anything Biblical makes us the "religious right."

But I don't mind... I am RELIGIOUS, and I AM RIGHT (as are you CWC).

So EdEKit, since you have gone off topic, what is the difference in forcing people to be taught the THEORY of Evolution or be taught SEX Education and forcing people to be taught the Bible, the creation story, and abstinence?

And what in the world is wrong with teaching abstinence? If abstinence is wrong then what exactly is right?



Does GOD like war?

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