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In 1885 Mormons set up a w h o rehouse to trap "Gentiles", i.e. non-Mormons. The purpose of this was to attempt to show discrimination.

"The thought seems to have been that if it should be ascertained that others of the non-Mormon population were found to be guilty of offenses against the law, it would be a sufficient answer to the prosecutions which were being brought by the government [Note: The "persecutions" cited here are the U.S. Government's actions against polygamy]. In this view, certain prominent and influential Mormon citizens of Salt Lake City conceived the idea of opening houses of ill-fame in certain localities of the municipality for the purpose of enticing prominent government officials and others into the commission of offenses, in order that they might be detected and publicity be given to their crimes."

Below is a link to information albout this amateurish Mormon sting operation, from a report by the U.S Attorney's office investigating this situation. Also inluded is some additional information on the subject of the Mormon Church as long-term landlord of various w h o rehouses in Salt Lake City.

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon363.htm
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No answers about your Church yet Beternun?
What you discribe(if it's even true) sounds like a modern day police
sting. I'm also sure if this is even true, it was not Church sanctioned.
At the time you are speaking of there were a lot more than Mormons in
Salt Lake City. You on the other hand havn't explaned Stone Cambell.
What happened all the sudden influenced him to create your church in
the 1800's?
Why don't you beleive in the Old Testament? Why are Babies punished
for Adam and Eves mistakes? Why don't you just stand up to your wife
and just tell her your going to the bar? How does your magical Bible
transfer power to you. Can you feal this power inside when you receive
it? You my brother(I called you that because I know it bothers you.)
You can't have it both ways brother. If you want to play in the sand box,
your going to get sand in your adult diaper. Razzer

Keep Marching for Answers from Beternun,
Skippy Cool
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
quote:
You my brother(I called you that because I know it bothers you.)


I'm no Christian, but I don't think you really get the intended meaning of the term.

________________________________________________

Hey Tick I'm just useing the same tools of debate that Beternun
is useing. I'm trying to entice him into bringing forth his beleifs.
Until I started this method he give out nothing. He still hasn't
given out much but, it's more than I had. A debate or discussion
does not work when it is one sided. I didn't start attacking him.
I started after he proclaimed himself as King. Not on my watch.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Cool
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
No answers about your Church yet Beternun?
What you discribe(if it's even true) sounds like a modern day police
sting. I'm also sure if this is even true, it was not Church sanctioned.
At the time you are speaking of there were a lot more than Mormons in
Salt Lake City. You on the other hand havn't explaned Stone Cambell.
What happened all the sudden influenced him to create your church in
the 1800's?
Why don't you beleive in the Old Testament? Why are Babies punished
for Adam and Eves mistakes? Why don't you just stand up to your wife
and just tell her your going to the bar? How does your magical Bible
transfer power to you. Can you feal this power inside when you receive
it? You my brother(I called you that because I know it bothers you.)
You can't have it both ways brother. If you want to play in the sand box,
your going to get sand in your adult diaper. Razzer

Keep Marching for Answers from Beternun,
Skippy Cool


You have gone over the edge, Skippy. There is no such person as "Stone Cambell" (or Stone Campbell)in the history of the American Restoration Movement.

I have never held that babies are punished for Adam and Eve's sins. If you want to dispute the doctrine of "original sin" and its alleged effect on innocent children, find yourself a Catholic to dispute with.

I have never held that the Old Testament is anything but the inspired Word of God and you can scan all the posts I ever put up on this forum and you will not find anything that even remotely suggests that I hold or ever held that view. What is your source for this accusation? Thin air?

Skippy, when I allege something about Mormon history or beliefs, I post documentation to support what I claim. Where is YOUR evidence that I believe any of those things you have falsely attributed to me. Let's have the EXACT source, too, not some vague reference to some inept web search you claim to have made.

Put up or shut up, Skippy. Put up the documentation, the evidence, the goods, or continue to look like the blithering dupe you have thus far shown yourself to be.

I am not at all surprised that you dispute the Mormon *****house sting. Here is more on that:

"14 June, 1900 - First Presidency and apostles agree to give $3,600 to Brigham Y. Hampton for his prior "detective work" in which he paid prostitute to allow him and nearly thirty LDS "Home Missionaries" and policemen to spy on anti-Mormons engaging in sex acts in Salt Lake City brothels in 1885. Although first counselor denies it at this meeting, in private meetings of First Presidency George Q. Cannon refers to Hampton's brothel work as "services rendered the Church" and "work in behalf of the Church." Hampton has been set apart as a Salt Lake temple worker since 1893, and another coordinator of brothel spying is the temple doorkeeper (1893-1910)."

Source: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon036.htm
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by bluetick:
quote:
You my brother(I called you that because I know it bothers you.)


I'm no Christian, but I don't think you really get the intended meaning of the term.

________________________________________________

Hey Tick I'm just useing the same tools of debate that Beternun
is useing. I'm trying to entice him into bringing forth his beleifs.
Until I started this method he give out nothing. He still hasn't
given out much but, it's more than I had. A debate or discussion
does not work when it is one sided. I didn't start attacking him.
I started after he proclaimed himself as King. Not on my watch.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Cool



As you know, I don't have a dog in this race, but I will say this. When you come to debate Beternu, you better have your facts. I may not agree with him or his tactics sometimes, but he does come prepaired. He does his research and if he makes a statement he can back it up. If it makes you feel better, I think you truely believe in your church and I commend you for that, but I do question your tactics. They are no different than many other Christians on here but that is the norm I guess.

I enjoy reading the debates and I do like Beters writing style. It took me a while,but he is pretty good. You can't baffle him with bulls&*$t and you can't feed him with false information. He'll catch you every time.

Besides...he's my Daddy. Big Grin
quote:
I enjoy reading the debates and I do like Beters writing style. It took me a while,but he is pretty good. You can't baffle him with bulls&*$t and you can't feed him with false information. He'll catch you every time.

That's why bettern-nun ran in all excited with his thread proclaiming that ex-Mormons were making a movie about Mormons!!! He had no idea that the writers of South Park spoofed all denominations/religions, and that NONE of them had ever been Mormons, and they even took one of the writers to Utah to expose him to Mormons. Yep, nothing but the facts.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
I enjoy reading the debates and I do like Beters writing style. It took me a while,but he is pretty good. You can't baffle him with bulls&*$t and you can't feed him with false information. He'll catch you every time.

That's why bettern-nun ran in all excited with his thread proclaiming that ex-Mormons were making a movie about Mormons!!! He had no idea that the writers of South Park spoofed all denominations/religions, and that NONE of them had ever been Mormons, and they even took one of the writers to Utah to expose him to Mormons. Yep, nothing but the facts.


Jennifer, I never said that the play was written by a Mormon. What I said was exactly this:

"Here is a link to one review of the musical, written by a Mormon (emphasis added by me):"

It is the REVIEW of the musical that was written by a Mormon.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
I enjoy reading the debates and I do like Beters writing style. It took me a while,but he is pretty good. You can't baffle him with bulls&*$t and you can't feed him with false information. He'll catch you every time.

That's why bettern-nun ran in all excited with his thread proclaiming that ex-Mormons were making a movie about Mormons!!! He had no idea that the writers of South Park spoofed all denominations/religions, and that NONE of them had ever been Mormons, and they even took one of the writers to Utah to expose him to Mormons. Yep, nothing but the facts.


Jennifer, I never said that the play was written by a Mormon. What I said was exactly this:

"Here is a link to one review of the musical, written by a Mormon (emphasis added by me):"

It is the REVIEW of the musical that was written by a Mormon.
Sure that's what you meant. Why didn't you answer when I ask you in that thread? Bettern-nun, are you COC?
All this discussion is about the Church that sends the 17 or 18 yr olds out on Bicycles in the Summer time and they have a Name Tag that tells their Name and under it says Elder, they can't be an Elder, here is the qualifications of an Elder.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge;
Titus 1:6 if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly.
Titus 1:7 For the bishop must be blameless, as God’s steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Titus 1:8 but given to hospitality, a lover of good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled;
Titus 1:9 holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers.

so you see them being unmarried and no Children disqualifys them from being Elders. so their Doctrine is not according to the teachings of the Bible.

Other Churches are no better, another Point.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point , he is become guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

nobody keeps the law perfectly and it will be only by the Grace of God if People are saved.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Matt 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

you can hear all kinds of People say "I know that I am saved, I can feel it right here" there is one way that you can know you are saved and this is it.

1John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1John 2:5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
All this discussion is about the Church that sends the 17 or 18 yr olds out on Bicycles in the Summer time and they have a Name Tag that tells their Name and under it says Elder, they can't be an Elder, here is the qualifications of an Elder.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge;
Titus 1:6 if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly.
Titus 1:7 For the bishop must be blameless, as God’s steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Titus 1:8 but given to hospitality, a lover of good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled;
Titus 1:9 holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers.

so you see them being unmarried and no Children disqualifys them from being Elders. so their Doctrine is not according to the teachings of the Bible.

Other Churches are no better, another Point.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point , he is become guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

nobody keeps the law perfectly and it will be only by the Grace of God if People are saved.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Matt 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

you can hear all kinds of People say "I know that I am saved, I can feel it right here" there is one way that you can know you are saved and this is it.

1John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1John 2:5 but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:

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WINDSONG, that is not a REPLY to prince albert. When you reply, you are supposed to do more than merely copy the incoming message while adding nothing except some kind of two-line cultic mantra of the kind that asserts claims that have been repeatedly disproven on this very forum.

You are looking mighty weak and pitiful today.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
WINDSONG, that is not a REPLY to prince albert. When you reply, you are supposed to do more than merely copy the incoming message while adding nothing except some kind of two-line cultic mantra of the kind that asserts claims that have been repeatedly disproven on this very forum.

You are looking mighty weak and pitiful today.
Thank you Bet!

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quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

You have gone over the edge, Skippy. There is no such person as "Stone Cambell" (or Stone Campbell)in the history of the American Restoration Movement.

I have never held that babies are punished for Adam and Eve's sins. If you want to dispute the doctrine of "original sin" and its alleged effect on innocent children, find yourself a Catholic to dispute with.

I have never held that the Old Testament is anything but the inspired Word of God and you can scan all the posts I ever put up on this forum and you will not find anything that even remotely suggests that I hold or ever held that view. What is your source for this accusation? Thin air?

Skippy, when I allege something about Mormon history or beliefs, I post documentation to support what I claim. Where is YOUR evidence that I believe any of those things you have falsely attributed to me. Let's have the EXACT source, too, not some vague reference to some inept web search you claim to have made.

Put up or shut up, Skippy. Put up the documentation, the evidence, the goods, or continue to look like the blithering dupe you have thus far shown yourself to be.

I am not at all surprised that you dispute the Mormon *****house sting. Here is more on that:

"14 June, 1900 - First Presidency and apostles agree to give $3,600 to Brigham Y. Hampton for his prior "detective work" in which he paid prostitute to allow him and nearly thirty LDS "Home Missionaries" and policemen to spy on anti-Mormons engaging in sex acts in Salt Lake City brothels in 1885. Although first counselor denies it at this meeting, in private meetings of First Presidency George Q. Cannon refers to Hampton's brothel work as "services rendered the Church" and "work in behalf of the Church." Hampton has been set apart as a Salt Lake temple worker since 1893, and another coordinator of brothel spying is the temple doorkeeper (1893-1910)."

Source: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon036.htm

_______________________________________________

Beternu,
your useing the exact web site that I debunked in your post
Interesting Facts in Mormon History.
Again the source of this is an ex-Mormon who was a proffesor at Brigham Young
University who was ex-communicated from the church, Dennis Micheal Quinn. He
wrote a book that has not shown any references as to the origin of material.
He's bitter about ex-communication but still believes the fundamentals of the
church is true.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

You have gone over the edge, Skippy. There is no such person as "Stone Cambell" (or Stone Campbell)in the history of the American Restoration Movement.

I have never held that babies are punished for Adam and Eve's sins. If you want to dispute the doctrine of "original sin" and its alleged effect on innocent children, find yourself a Catholic to dispute with.

I have never held that the Old Testament is anything but the inspired Word of God and you can scan all the posts I ever put up on this forum and you will not find anything that even remotely suggests that I hold or ever held that view. What is your source for this accusation? Thin air?

Skippy, when I allege something about Mormon history or beliefs, I post documentation to support what I claim. Where is YOUR evidence that I believe any of those things you have falsely attributed to me. Let's have the EXACT source, too, not some vague reference to some inept web search you claim to have made.

Put up or shut up, Skippy. Put up the documentation, the evidence, the goods, or continue to look like the blithering dupe you have thus far shown yourself to be.

I am not at all surprised that you dispute the Mormon *****house sting. Here is more on that:

"14 June, 1900 - First Presidency and apostles agree to give $3,600 to Brigham Y. Hampton for his prior "detective work" in which he paid prostitute to allow him and nearly thirty LDS "Home Missionaries" and policemen to spy on anti-Mormons engaging in sex acts in Salt Lake City brothels in 1885. Although first counselor denies it at this meeting, in private meetings of First Presidency George Q. Cannon refers to Hampton's brothel work as "services rendered the Church" and "work in behalf of the Church." Hampton has been set apart as a Salt Lake temple worker since 1893, and another coordinator of brothel spying is the temple doorkeeper (1893-1910)."

Source: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon036.htm

_______________________________________________

Beternu,
your useing the exact web site that I debunked in your post
Interesting Facts in Mormon History.
Again the source of this is an ex-Mormon who was a proffesor at Brigham Young
University who was ex-communicated from the church, Dennis Micheal Quinn. He
wrote a book that has not shown any references as to the origin of material.
He's bitter about ex-communication but still believes the fundamentals of the
church is true.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Smiler


Hey, Windy One, an ex-Mormon often is a very good source of what goes on in that cult. He has been there; he has experienced it first hand. I have not examined Quinn's book as to "references." But when I have posted information to you concerning Mormonism, I have posted plenty of documentation, including much from official Mormon sources. You just choose to ignore that kind of information or dismiss it with some irrelevant and irrational "rationale". The truth is readily available from bothe Mormon and non-Mormon sources, and it clearly shows what kind of heretical and weird doctrines and practices have been invented by creative Mormons over the years. Wild and crazy stuff!
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

You have gone over the edge, Skippy. There is no such person as "Stone Cambell" (or Stone Campbell)in the history of the American Restoration Movement.

I have never held that babies are punished for Adam and Eve's sins. If you want to dispute the doctrine of "original sin" and its alleged effect on innocent children, find yourself a Catholic to dispute with.

I have never held that the Old Testament is anything but the inspired Word of God and you can scan all the posts I ever put up on this forum and you will not find anything that even remotely suggests that I hold or ever held that view. What is your source for this accusation? Thin air?

Skippy, when I allege something about Mormon history or beliefs, I post documentation to support what I claim. Where is YOUR evidence that I believe any of those things you have falsely attributed to me. Let's have the EXACT source, too, not some vague reference to some inept web search you claim to have made.

Put up or shut up, Skippy. Put up the documentation, the evidence, the goods, or continue to look like the blithering dupe you have thus far shown yourself to be.

I am not at all surprised that you dispute the Mormon *****house sting. Here is more on that:

"14 June, 1900 - First Presidency and apostles agree to give $3,600 to Brigham Y. Hampton for his prior "detective work" in which he paid prostitute to allow him and nearly thirty LDS "Home Missionaries" and policemen to spy on anti-Mormons engaging in sex acts in Salt Lake City brothels in 1885. Although first counselor denies it at this meeting, in private meetings of First Presidency George Q. Cannon refers to Hampton's brothel work as "services rendered the Church" and "work in behalf of the Church." Hampton has been set apart as a Salt Lake temple worker since 1893, and another coordinator of brothel spying is the temple doorkeeper (1893-1910)."

Source: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon036.htm

_______________________________________________

Beternu,
your useing the exact web site that I debunked in your post
Interesting Facts in Mormon History.
Again the source of this is an ex-Mormon who was a proffesor at Brigham Young
University who was ex-communicated from the church, Dennis Micheal Quinn. He
wrote a book that has not shown any references as to the origin of material.
He's bitter about ex-communication but still believes the fundamentals of the
church is true.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Smiler


Hey, Windy One, an ex-Mormon often is a very good source of what goes on in that cult. He has been there; he has experienced it first hand. I have not examined Quinn's book as to "references." But when I have posted information to you concerning Mormonism, I have posted plenty of documentation, including much from official Mormon sources. You just choose to ignore that kind of information or dismiss it with some irrelevant and irrational "rationale". The truth is readily available from bothe Mormon and non-Mormon sources, and it clearly shows what kind of heretical and weird doctrines and practices have been invented by creative Mormons over the years. Wild and crazy stuff!

______________________________________________

Hey Beternobody,

to start with this is not Windsong. This one you should have checked your
facts on. In posting something without checking your source a little more
careful is proof you need to not be taken seriously. You fall short again.

Keep Marching,
Skippy Cool

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