Hi to all my Forum Friends,
In the discussion "Ask a Catholic...." begun by our Forum Friend, David -- he, David, wrote about the Roman Catholic censure called Excommunication, i.e., removal from the church community.
Let me begin by stating that what I am writing is not, in any way, intended to be derogatory toward my Roman Catholic Friends; but, is my opinion concerning their tradition of placing the Roman Catholic church and its leaders in a position, or in an apparent position, of higher authority than God's Written Word, the Bible.
And, I will state that I believe the ultimate goal, both for the Roman Catholic church and for the Bible-centered Protestant churches, is to bring about reconciliation between the person who has strayed -- and God.
In an earlier post David tells Jan, "There are two types of excommunication: (1) Formal: imposed publicly upon a person by legitimate authority; and (2) Informal; imposed by the laws of the Church automatically once the law has been violated."
Then, David continues explaining the Roman Catholic church's "Grounds for Excommunication."
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1. Apostasy from the faith.
2. Heresy
3. Schism
4. The deliberate desecration of the Blessed Sacrament, throwing away the Host or Precious Blood, or the stealing of the Blessed Sacrament to be used in a sacrilegious manner.
5. One who uses physical force against the Roman Pontiff or Bishop.
6. A priest who attempts to absolve his accomplice in a sin against the 6th Commandment.
7. Anyone who is not validly ordained attempting to celebrate Mass.
8. Any priest or layman who hears a sacramental confession but has not been given the faculty to give valid absolution by the local ordinary.
9. A bishop who consecrates someone a bishop and the person who receives the consecration from a bishop without a direct mandate from the Pope.
10. A validly ordained priest who violates the seal of sacramental confession.
11. One who falsely accuses a confessor before an ecclesiastical superior.
12. A cleric who attempts to get married.
13. A person who has taken perpetual vows and attempts marriage.
14. A person who procures a successful abortion.
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Not sure if anyone else noticed; but, I see a huge RED FLAG! Except for a brief mention of the Sixth Commandment, "Thou shall not kill" (in 6 and 14 above) -- this whole list of "offenses" relate ONLY to a person's relationship with the Roman Catholic church, the Pope, the bishops, the mass, and their church traditions and rituals.
No mention of God, Jesus Christ, the Bible, etc. All the reasons given for being removed from the Roman Catholic church is based upon and around that church and it's human leaders -- NOT God and/or our relationship to God.
What offenses does the Bible list as reasons for expulsion from the fellowship? In 1 Corinthians 5:11, Paul begins with incest and sexual immorality, being an immoral person, covetousness, idolatry, and being a reviler, drunkard, or swindler. In 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Paul warns against the person who leads an unruly life, a life which does not conform to Christian teachings.
And, in 2 Thessalonians 10:20-21, Paul warns against joining in pagan worship and partaking of pagan pleasures. There are others, but, you will notice that these are ALL sins against God; not against earthly church organizations or earthly church leaders.
The Bible tells us, in Matthew 18:15-17, that if a brother/sister in Christ sins -- we are to go to that person and reprove him in person. If he refuses to listen, take several elders with you to reprove him. If this fails, bring him before the congregation. If he still refuses to change, have no fellowship with him. Is that the end?
No. In 1 Corinthians 5:5 we read, "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Whoa! That sounds pretty harsh! Just what did the apostle Paul mean in this Scripture verse?
Pastor David Guzik, Director of Calvary Chapel Bible College, Germany, explains 1 Corinthians 5:5 in his commentary: http://www.blueletterbible.org...rinthians&ar=1Cr_5_5
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Confronting Immorality in the Church
(c.) How could they deliver such a one to Satan? By putting him outside the church, into the world, which is the devil’s “domain.” The punishment is a removal of spiritual protection and social comfort, not an infliction of evil. (i.) God often protects us from the attacks of Satan, even when we never knew about the attacks (Job 1:10, Luke 22:31-32).
(e.) That his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus: The goal of the discipline is clear: the salvation, not the destruction, of his spirit. Though this man’s conduct was clearly sinful, and needed severe correction, Paul does not write him off as forever lost – the effective use of church discipline may yet see him to salvation (restoration).
(i.) All discipline in the church is to be carried out in this attitude of restoration, not condemnation. As Paul also wrote, And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thessalonians 3:14-15).
(ii.) “Church discipline is not a group of ‘pious policemen’ out to catch a criminal. Rather, it is a group of brokenhearted brothers and sisters seeking to restore an erring member of the family.” (Warren Wiersbe)
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So, David, and all of our Forum Friends -- we always place GOD FIRST, not ANY church organization or church leaders. All sin is against God, not the church organization nor its leaders.
We find, in Romans 11:36, "For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen."
And, in 1 Timothy 1:17, "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."
Revelation 5:12-13, "'Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.' And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, 'To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.''"
It is God to whom we give honor and glory -- NOT any church, NOT any church leaders. We give respect to our church organization and to our church leaders -- but, all honor and glory and spiritual recognition goes only for and to our Lord God.
When a brother/sister sins against God, we do what we can to bring that brother/sister back into step with GOD, not the church. And, we do not "excommunicate" or "ban" them forever. Instead, we do what is necessary, sometimes even denying them fellowship as the apostle Paul wrote, in order that we may bring them into spiritual communion with God once again.
I pray this clears up any misunderstandings relating to our relationship to our church and church leaders -- and our relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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