Sounds like the company is qualified to handle elections if they are the"industry leaders"-"global leaders" that you quote. " Libs/socialist" rigging elections ? Perhaps you need to review American history.

History show Chi-Town and Crook county as masters of vote rigging and voter fraud.  He may have been born in Hawaii, but he's Chi-Town material now.

Bring 'em on! They couldn't possibly be as bad as the fumbling fools who tabulated Presidential voting results in 2000 in the Florida election.

Maybe they could farm out some of the work to the folks in nation of Chad; they, of all people, should be able to handle "hanging chads".

The hanging chad butterfly ballots were designed by Democrats -- idiots, probably.

Actually, they weren't.

"Prior to the election, unusually substandard paper ballots, including misaligned chads, were manufactured by employees of the Sequoia Pacific company, out of normal specifications and failing quality testing, prior to shipping to Palm Beach County."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...ion_in_Florida,_2000

Sequoia Pacific Systems Corp in San Leandro, CA Brian Lierman is listed as the President.

Lierman is a Democrat.  Democrats running the precinct -- cheap.  Democrats using the ballots -- incompetent!

funny... i find 1000 websites that tell about the compay i posted, making the ballots...

i find ONE article, on wiki... that supports you... and the top that article includes this statement......

• Its factual accuracy is disputed.

republicans... they don't mind telling a lie, if it suits their needs!

Sequoia was the ballot supplier for the two democrat precincts that had trouble with the hanging chads. Not a major problem in the rest of the state.  Deduction points towards the ballots as the main problem.  Add, incompetent voters (Democratic).

Democrats have long forgotten, if they ever learned, the use of logic and deductive reasoning. 

once again... stooping to insults... to cover for a poor argument!

How did republicans "make a mess" out of them? Apparently they knew how to use them to vote.

or change a vote... however you chose to word it, is fine with me.

How was the vote changed? 

Desperation mode, the NYT paid for a hand count which show Bush won.  Liberals still in feluccas sailing up Denial.

if you don't think something is wrong with "throwing out" people's votes...

there's nothing i can say to help you!

i bet ... if something happened to your voting place, and your vote wasn't counted,

you'd both be coming apart at the seams!

Ah but yoda, things do happen to our voting places. How about the guy here that they wouldn't let vote because they said he had already voted? I wonder what happened to him and if anyone bothered to look into that. How about people being allowed to list a park bench as their residence and voting? Want to talk about all the voter fraud that goes on? You better have a few days, weeks, years. Voter intimidation? We could discuss that too. How about the news calling the race for gore and all the people that went home when they heard that and didn't even vote? Was that just an oopsie?

what about the people who were asked for TWO forms of picture id... what about the votes that were not counted because the polling place was closed because of the weather?

since when does someone get to say "no, your vote isn't worth counting"?

shouldn't we all be upset over these grievances? i thought every vote was supposed to count?

since when did it become "only convenient votes count"?

twice in my lifetime... i've seen a presidential candidate get more votes than his opponent, and lose the election.

I'd say you made my point yoda.  And don't forget, both dems and republicans work the polling places.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

i'm not really trying to prove your point... as much as i'm trying to just make a point...

why are people everywhere not outraged by the "tossing out" of votes!

it's pretty obvious the "thrown out votes" could change the outcome of an election!

if they have to be hand counted, so be it! i want every vote counted! so everyone has an equal say in our government... seems like that's written down somewhere, in some official document!

Yoda's post

"If you don't think something is wrong with "throwing out" people's votes...

there's nothing i can say to help you!

i bet ... if something happened to your voting place, and your vote wasn't counted,

you'd both be coming apart at the seams!"

Most of the votes weren't counted either because of voter incompetence, or the two local precinct's (Democrat controlled) incompetence.  Either way, stupid people (mostly Democrats) were kept from voting.  Rather a Darwinian turn of events. 

Anyone who thinks paper ballots and hand counting will end voter fraud are either completely ignorant of history, or are guilty of demagoguery.  Chi-Town and Crook county did some of their best ballot stuffing in those days, same for the Tamany Hall machine Democrats in NYC. The Democrats of the old south did much the same.  As did the GOP during the reconstruciton era. Paper ballots give people more access to the ballots over a longer period of time. 

---------------------------------

People are outraged. What good does it do? I was "outraged" at the things I saw. No one cared, including the dems working the polling places, so where does it go from there? There's plenty to be outraged about with our voting system but no one has made an honest effort to change it, and most likely won't. 

There should definitely be a voter ID law, backed with conditional ballots that voters may fill out if their ID isn't up to snuff.  Their ballots can be counted when ID is proven.  I rather like the system we used in Madison during the primaries. I marked a paper ballot, then fed it into a reader, which recorded my vote, then placed my ballot in a locked container.  That way, there's hardcopy backup for the recorded vote. 

Originally Posted by interventor1212:Most of the votes weren't counted either because of voter incompetence, or the two local precinct's (Democrat controlled) incompetence.  Either way, stupid people (mostly Democrats) were kept from voting.  Rather a Darwinian turn of events.

you can't make a post without downing someone... can you?!?!?!?!?

and get this through your head... we don't care how you did it back then... things are different now. technology has advanced. we can hand count votes, and keep an eye on the counters, at the same time. get over your old way of thinking. with new technology, old ideas, can come to life again, and work! please, try to understand. your constant negative "well, it didn't work back when moses tried it" comments get old, to everyone!

I gave the only two alternatives for persons that think paper ballots are a definitive answer to ballot fixing and ballot box stuffing. Ignorance of the history of voter fraud is not a disgrace.  All are ignorant of something.  I'm still trying to understand how chaos theory and string theory may coexist. Demagoguery is not an honorable excuse.

I work with some of the most advance technology available. Part of my job is ensuring materiel arrives without being pilfered -- arms are most attractive to the wrong people.  Industrial espionage is another nasty business I must guard against.  In Paris, the French BD was one of my worst fears, constantly hoping to gain access to load techniques and prices.  

I've kept up with the most advanced techniques in my field.  One thing I do know is the more access to a thing by people, the more chance for bad things to happen.  Paper ballots and hand counting are rife for internal control breakdowns.

holy batspit!

you're an expert in every field. all we have to do is ask  you. you've already done it, seen it, been there, and got the tee shirt! right here, on our very forum. the greatest person since jesus! why are you wasting your time on our stupid little forum... you should be running your own country by now. i mean dang,  you've already got all the weapons, all the money, all the connections... you're just wasting time here... go conquer the world. you already have everyone beat! just get to it!

interventer gotcha', Yoda. LOL

Yoda, bereft of any rational retort, resorts to sputterring invective.  How is that a gotcha?  I must assume your standards for such are low. 

Yoda's post:

"holy batspit!

you're an expert in every field. all we have to do is ask  you. you've already done it, seen it, been there, and got the tee shirt! right here, on our very forum. the greatest person since jesus! why are you wasting your time on our stupid little forum... you should be running your own country by now. i mean dang,  you've already got all the weapons, all the money, all the connections... you're just wasting time here... go conquer the world. you already have everyone beat! just get to it!"

Poor Yoda, is that all you got!  Never claimed to be an expert on everything, just a man with education and experience.  I have no lust for power. As a member of the NRA for 50 years, I do maintain a small collection, but was never interested in collecting arms in a major way -- moving often means special care in transporting them, plus being orverseas, means careful storage.

As to money, I'm comfortable, not a millionaire.  Now, go tame your green-eyed monster.

Interventor says: "I work with some of the most advance technology available. Part of my job is ensuring materiel arrives without being pilfered -- arms are most attractive to the wrong people.  Industrial espionage is another nasty business I must guard against.  In Paris, the French BD was one of my worst fears, constantly hoping to gain access to load techniques and prices.  

I've kept up with the most advanced techniques in my field.  One thing I do know is the more access to a thing by people, the more chance for bad things to happen.  Paper ballots and hand counting are rife for internal control breakdowns."

_________________________________________________________________

There we have it folks! Proof that no matter what a person does in life, he can STILL go through it without a clue!

Provide the clue, then.

 Earlier, I referenced a method used in Madison county -- marking a paper ballot, placing it in a scanner to tally the vote, then into a locked container.  About the best method I've seen.  Allows a quick tally and provides for a backup hardcopy, if the vote is questioned.

As I stated, dealt with security as an adjunct part of my career.  Every time a thing is exposed to more contact with people, than absolutely necessary, there is greater chance of fraud, theft, or espionage.  Marking paper ballots, placing them in a locked box, then transporting the boxes to be counted, and finally emptying the boxes and starting a long manual count by numerous people isn't the most secure way to do it. 

Prove me wrong.