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I 20 Billboard

T tigrtrekHall of Famer
Link

I don't agree with the group who put this up but its a shame people would respond with threats and obscene calls. Heck how good can freedom of speech
be when you're not offended every now and then? Of course I would also say this to people who have a fit every time a student mentions Jesus in a graduation speech.
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NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
I agree with you.

The billboard doesn't reflect my views, but I don't find it offensive. They have the right to express their views just as others have the right to respond. That's what freedom of expression is all about and it applies to everyone.

On a side note, the manager of Lamar had every right to decline the ad, it wasn't censorship. Censorship only happens when the government limits or restricts speech, not private individuals.
R ryokurin 2Hall of Famer
I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but here it goes...

Since when has it been to not believe something exist means you must also hate it? and when did criticism come to equal hate?

The billboard is saying like the song. What if people helped, cared and loved one another because its the right thing to do. Not because of some after death reward, or the fear of retaliation for not doing so.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Hoobs, This is not a Left-Right issue, it's a rational/irrational issue.

The Atheists are coming. Reason rears its ugly head in Alabama! DF

Hi Deep,

Yes, the atheists have been coming since the days of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel -- yet, all these thousands of years later; God is still in control.

Kind of make one think: no matter how loud the non-believer yells and screams -- God is still in control.

And, He ever will be. Praise the Lord!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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D DeepFatOld Faithful
L,

I love how you speak for me.

Religious billboards are not hate speech. They might be silly speech, but their intent is seldom hateful. We won't talk about the Westboro Baptist Church here.

The churches are simply advertising. Advertising works. They have bills to pay!

If the religious people of Talledega can't handle such an innocuous challenge as "Imagine No Religion", their faith must be very weak indeed.


DF
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
If my church erected a billboard that read "Imagine a world with no atheism" I'm sure every liberal news outlet in America would attack us as being "haters".

Need proof? Here you go:

Remember Miss Prejean and how she was treated by the media for speaking her mind?

Here is a fragment from an interview with Megan Fox of the movie Transformers 2:

what would she (Megan's character in the movie) say to keep Megatron from destroying the world? "I'd barter with him and say instead of destroying the entire planet, can you just take out all the white trash, hillbilly, anti-gay, super bible beating people in middle America?"

link

I had to dig to even find this on the internet. Nary a word was spoken by the media outlets who attacked Miss Prejean.

Yes, I stand by my original post. The freethinkers are definitely "haters" if judged by the standards of their own kind.
R ryokurin 2Hall of Famer
I think you probably didn't do a good enough search. I just did a quick search and saw it 378 million times.

Anyhow, I'm going to ask a question. And it is just a question, not a defense for her. Do you think that the Westboro Baptist Church or Fred Phelps speaks for you? Or for that matter if they represent all of Christianity? Don't think that she wasn't referring to him?
LMMLMMOld Faithful
To butt in so to speak.
Westboro is a cult of glazed eyed insane morons who are not doing Christian works.

All factions of society have their idiots. It is not a reflection on the whole group.

Now for you ryo,
If I should not judge all free thinkers by one person, why do Atheists judge all Christians by one person?
AKA, the religious moron thread?
R ryokurin 2Hall of Famer
Yet a lot of people who may be on the fence on becoming a Christian may see that and get turned off. On the other hand, who exactly are we to say what is or isn't Christian? After all, they did get their opinion from the Bible

As for the moron's thread, other than possibly Cookey no one judged all of Christianity due to the couple of examples there. Every religion and every side has its looneys and questionable opinions that don't represent their works as a whole. Heck, some of the ones mentioned in the thread, Buddhism and Muslim have a lot in common with Christianity (although Buddhism is more of a way of life than religion but that's a different story)

All I'm saying is that every side has a right to voice their opinion, and on one is persecuting anyone, unless someone is doing extremes like burning people at the stake or holocaust like measures today.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
Hoobs,

Your "proof" does not follow your premise.

Ms. Prejean was asked an inappropriate question, but it had nothing to do with religion.

Megan Fox, whose every utterance should not be reason for anyone's concern, is not the national spokesbabe for freethinkers. It is to the credit of the media that her every opinion is not newsworthy. For the record, the tattooed Tennessean is Catholic Link .

When you make a bigoted statement like "all freethinkers are haters" it says much. About you.

DF
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
From Mr. Hooberblob: Yes, I stand by my original post. The freethinkers are definitely "haters" if judged by the standards of their own kind.

Some standards to judge by:

Responding to the murder of Dr. George Tiller, Randall Terry said, “George Tiller was a mass murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God.“

Pastor Wiley Drake said, “I am glad George Tiller is dead. He was a brutal, murdering monster who was far greater in his atrocities than Adolph Hitler.“ Pastor Drake told talk show host Alan Colmes that he prayed God would get rid of Tiller in some way. Drake then announced that he was praying daily for the death of President Obama.

An anti-semite walked into the Holocaust Memorial Museum firing a weapon. He blamed Jews for electing Obama and declared that Jews were not “God’s Chosen.”
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Is this really so scary?

DF


It could have some serious repercussions. What would happen to all the law inforcement and military personnel whose jobs would become obsolete?

There could be a population explosion without the various religions hating and killing each other.

Actually, overpopulation wouldn't be a problem. Reason would prevail. Birth control and abortion would not fall victim to religious taboos.

What a great idea. No religion!
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
My point was obviously lost on David as his response does not address the double standard his side practices. They allow what Megan Fox says to go unnoticed in the press. I have heard nothing in the news on her statement, much less any reprecusions.

Let's turn the tables: what if she had said, "they can have the aids spreading, child molesters, super gay, middle Californians."

How long do you suppose she would be working in California, much less any place else? How many death threats would she be recieving every hour?

With David's group it's you agree with me or we will hate and attack you.

I can easily imagine a world without God....Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Communist China and so on and so on. It would be a world where anyone who disagrees with the people in power would be put to death with no after thought. It would be a world where people would do the most vile things to others simply because there are no consequences to their actions. David vision is one where everybody is a scientist or acedemic whose sole purpose in life is to gain knowledge. Unfortuntely for him, the knuckle draggers and power greedy far outnumber the nosepickers and my vision of a world without God is much more realistic.
Last edited by Mr. Hooberbloob
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by ryokurin:
I think you probably didn't do a good enough search. I just did a quick search and saw it 378 million times.

Anyhow, I'm going to ask a question. And it is just a question, not a defense for her. Do you think that the Westboro Baptist Church or Fred Phelps speaks for you? Or for that matter if they represent all of Christianity? Don't think that she wasn't referring to him?


You obviously are as obtuse as David.

Yes, you can google Megan Fox's name and get 378 million hits. Tell me exactly how many times in those hits you get the quote I posted.
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by ryokurin:
I think you probably didn't do a good enough search. I just did a quick search and saw it 378 million times.

Anyhow, I'm going to ask a question. And it is just a question, not a defense for her. Do you think that the Westboro Baptist Church or Fred Phelps speaks for you? Or for that matter if they represent all of Christianity? Don't think that she wasn't referring to him?


I'll ask you a question. How much bad press has Fred Phelps received compared to Megan Fox. Personally, I see them both as haters. Yet, because Phelps professes to be "religious", the liberal media locks onto him but ignores Megan Fox's statements. Both should be exposed as haters, don't you think?
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:

I can easily imagine a world without God....Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Communist China and so on and so on. It would be a world where anyone who disagrees with the people in power would be put to death with no after thought. It would be a world where people would do the most vile things to others simply because there are no consequences to their actions.


And yet another parroter of evengelical cliches: "hate;" Nazi Germany and the communist regimes prove religion is good; without belief in God there are no consequences to one's actions.

Concerning the roll of atheism in totalitarian regimes, Nazi Germany was anything but atheistic. Only 1.5 percent of the population was atheists in 1939. Hitler was baptized a Catholic, attended a monastery school, and was an alter boy. The Catholic Church did not excommunicate Hitler. He professed belief in God throughout Mein Kampf; and soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). Pope Pius XI supported Hitler in his bid for the German presidency. Hitler on July 20, 1933 signed a concordat with Pope Pius XI giving special favors to the Catholic Church.

In a defiant show of contempt for atheists and freethinkers, Hitler closed "Freethinkers Hall" in the spring of 1933 giving the building to a bureau advising the public on church matters.

Stalin was not without religious indoctrination. At eight years, he entered the Gori Church School. He then attended the Seminary of Tiflis. His mother wanted him to be a priest. Stalin was a member of the "communist" faith where a mindless obedience to a "higher power" is required. Atheism had nothing to do with his butchery.

The violence of the 20th century was hardly a result of atheistic reason. It was a product of blind adherence to dogma--Nazism and Stalinism. When unquestioned dogma of any nature replaces reason, violence is the result. In America today of the twenty-two states with the highest murder rates, seventeen are Christian conservative "red" states.

"It would be a world where people would do the most vile things to others simply because there are no consequences to their actions."
In the Christian world people are motivated by the desire to gain a reward (Heaven) or avoid punishment (Hell). In the world of reason, rational individuals, e.g., atheists, humanists, act ethically because it is the right way to act. There goal is not a future reward, but the satisfaction of improving themselves and society in general. Their guiding light is the most secular of all codes of conduct-the Golden Rule.

I repeat, "Without religion we would have less violence."
LMMLMMOld Faithful
Without fanatics, we would have less violence.

Fanatic:

1. enthusiast, zealot, bigot, hothead, militant. Fanatic, zealot, militant, devotee refer to persons showing more than ordinary support for, adherence to, or interest in a cause, point of view, or activity. Fanatic and zealot both suggest excessive or overweening devotion to a cause or belief. Fanatic further implies unbalanced or obsessive behavior: a wild-eyed fanatic. Zealot, only slightly less unfavorable in implication than fanatic, implies single-minded partisanship: a tireless zealot for tax reform. Militant stresses vigorous, aggressive support for or opposition to a plan or ideal and suggests a combative stance. Devotee is a milder term than any of the foregoing, suggesting enthusiasm but not to the exclusion of other interests or possible points of view: a jazz devotee.
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:

I can easily imagine a world without God....Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Communist China and so on and so on. It would be a world where anyone who disagrees with the people in power would be put to death with no after thought. It would be a world where people would do the most vile things to others simply because there are no consequences to their actions.


And yet another parroter of evengelical cliches: "hate;" Nazi Germany and the communist regimes prove religion is good; without belief in God there are no consequences to one's actions.

Concerning the roll of atheism in totalitarian regimes, Nazi Germany was anything but atheistic. Only 1.5 percent of the population was atheists in 1939. Hitler was baptized a Catholic, attended a monastery school, and was an alter boy. The Catholic Church did not excommunicate Hitler. He professed belief in God throughout Mein Kampf; and soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). Pope Pius XI supported Hitler in his bid for the German presidency. Hitler on July 20, 1933 signed a concordat with Pope Pius XI giving special favors to the Catholic Church.

In a defiant show of contempt for atheists and freethinkers, Hitler closed "Freethinkers Hall" in the spring of 1933 giving the building to a bureau advising the public on church matters.

Stalin was not without religious indoctrination. At eight years, he entered the Gori Church School. He then attended the Seminary of Tiflis. His mother wanted him to be a priest. Stalin was a member of the "communist" faith where a mindless obedience to a "higher power" is required. Atheism had nothing to do with his butchery.

The violence of the 20th century was hardly a result of atheistic reason. It was a product of blind adherence to dogma--Nazism and Stalinism. When unquestioned dogma of any nature replaces reason, violence is the result. In America today of the twenty-two states with the highest murder rates, seventeen are Christian conservative "red" states.

"It would be a world where people would do the most vile things to others simply because there are no consequences to their actions."
In the Christian world people are motivated by the desire to gain a reward (Heaven) or avoid punishment (Hell). In the world of reason, rational individuals, e.g., atheists, humanists, act ethically because it is the right way to act. There goal is not a future reward, but the satisfaction of improving themselves and society in general. Their guiding light is the most secular of all codes of conduct-the Golden Rule.

I repeat, "Without religion we would have less violence."


David, you should start all your sentences with "squawk, polly want a cracker".

Only a die hard atheist would try to turn Stalin and Hitler into choir boys. David, you are a walking, talking cliche.

Yes, I'm sure Stalin and Hitler went to church every Sunday and prayed for all their sins to be forgiven on a daily basis. I bet they even taught Sunday School. Note sarcasm.

No, I'm not buying it for one minute, David. Nazi Germany is a prime example of how our society would be without God to be replaced with only science and human reasoning. I don't know of any other country who valued logic and human reason any more than Nazi Germany at that time.

A country isn't great because of it's wealth, knowledge, or even power. It's great because of it's rightousness.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
"A country isn't great because of it's wealth, knowledge, or even power. It's great because of it's rightousness." Not true if by rrightousness you mean religousness.


According to various surveys between 86 to 95 percent of Americans claim to believe in God, compared to 61 percent of the British; nearly 80 percent of Americans claim to believe in heaven, compared to 50 percent of the British; 84 percent of Americans believe that Jesus is God or the son of God, compared to 46 percent of the British. How have the British fared with less religion? The Bureau of Justice Statistics released a detailed comparison of crime rates in the U.S. and England. The rate of murder, rape and robbery were significantly higher in this country than in the U.K. The U.S. murder rate was six time as high as England's.

The United Nations ranks Norway and Sweden as having the highest standards of living in the world. The percentage of adults surveyed who claim they attend church one or more times per week is United States, 44; Norway, 5; Sweden, 4. The percentage of atheists in Sweden is 46-85; Denmark, 43-80; Norway, 31-72. Yet they are blessed with extremely low crime rates. In 2004, the number of homicides per 100,000 of population was United States, 5.5; Sweden, 2.39; Denmark, 0.78; Norway, 0.78. Norway and Sweden were rated the world's least corrupt nations.

Japan, whose population is about 1 percent Christian, has a homicide rate of 0.5 per 100,000 while the the homicide rate for the overwhelmingly Christian United States is eleven times Japan’s rate. Does Christian dogma deter intolerance, hate and violence or contribute to it?

"How about China?" While "Godless" China is less than perfect; so is the God-fearing, genocidal Balkans. The fact remains that a secular society can be, and often tends to be, less violent and more ethical than a God-fearing society. China has made gigantic leaps forward, both economically and socially, in recent years. As for individuals, there are good and bad believers as there are good and bad non-believers.

With 67 percent of Alabamians labeling themselves "born again" (double the national average), the state ranks well above the national average in crime rate and divorce rate--rivaled only by other Bible belt states.

Where lies the world’s evil? It often lurks in the bastions of religious fervor, including: Islamic terrorists organizations; Northern Ireland where God-fearing Christians kill each other; ecclesiastical dens of pedophilia; the Bible belt where intolerance fosters hatred with vitriolic attacks on various “undesirable” groups.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
We also know that what we do as children may not follow us into adulthood.

Darwin was very religious as a child before becoming disillusioned with God.

Hitler had a twisted view of religion as did Stalin.

Vlad The Impaler was a member of The Order of the Dragon.

The Order of the Dragon was a monarchical chivalric order for selected nobility, created in Hungary in the late Middle Ages.[1] Founded in 1408 by Sigismund, King of Hungary (r. 1397-1437) and later Holy Roman Emperor (r. 1433-1437), the Order primarily flourished in Germany and Italy. According to a surviving copy of its statute, the Order required its initiates to defend the Cross and fight the enemies of Christianity.[2]
R ryokurin 2Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
quote:
Originally posted by ryokurin:
I think you probably didn't do a good enough search. I just did a quick search and saw it 378 million times.

Anyhow, I'm going to ask a question. And it is just a question, not a defense for her. Do you think that the Westboro Baptist Church or Fred Phelps speaks for you? Or for that matter if they represent all of Christianity? Don't think that she wasn't referring to him?


I'll ask you a question. How much bad press has Fred Phelps received compared to Megan Fox. Personally, I see them both as haters. Yet, because Phelps professes to be "religious", the liberal media locks onto him but ignores Megan Fox's statements. Both should be exposed as haters, don't you think?


Whats with your obsession with Megan Fox, who is only relevant because of one movie last year? She even personally admits that she isn't a very good actress.

Anyhow, here's your first post. Link (379,000,000 mentions)

Here's your second: You know, the main reason no one has reacted to her like you want is because for one, it was done in a magazine that most American's haven't heard of nor get, nor did she make the comment live in front of 3.5 million people.

The only people who pay attention to Megan Fox are boys under the age of 18. If it wasn't for Transformers she still would be a background TV actress that no one would know. She even admits that she isn't that great of an actress. And it's not the first time she's Said something off the wall. All within frequency of the upcoming release of a new film...

As for Phelps, he's actually is being ignored. did you know that he protested the Michael Jackson funeral? or that he added Jews to his hate list. And he's still protesting military funerals. But other than the occasional news article on page 7 he's been ignored. fficial&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">Link (164,000 mentions)

I only brought him up to show that every side has its extreme fringe. Most people know that Phelps and his family is crazy and does not represent Christianity. The same can be said that Richard Dawkins or Bill Maher are not representatives of all Atheists, or suicide bombers represent all of Islam, and so forth.

Could she have been talking about Phelps, Maybe? but she likely was saying it to get press, as usual. And Carrie Prejean's spotlight would have ended months ago if she didn't keep complaining about it. In fact, it may would have went in her favor if she left it alone as now Perez Hilton is taking flack for egging on Will.I.Am's body guard to punch him out by constantly throwing gay slurs at them at a party. he's known to baiting people to get a story and she completely fell for it, and never caught on to what was happening.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
L,

You demonstrate my point perfectly.

Who better than a Christian, steeped in the German idea that the Jews wear the guilt and blood of Jesus to enact The Final Solution?

As for Darwin, he, like so many of us, simply became too cool for the room.

DF


So I'm on the same level as Hitler to you because of my beliefs? Since you generalized Christians in that way, I'm guessing you lumped Joy as well as every single other Christian in that crack.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by 8I:
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Hoobs,

This is not a Left-Right issue, it's a rational/irrational issue.

The Atheists are coming. Reason rears its ugly head in Alabama!


DF



Have you, or anyone else viewed this video?

Link


He conveniently forgot to mention that the Civil Rights movement was born in Bible Belt churches, led by reverends and pastors, and succeeded because they stuck to a core Christian principle, "love thy enemy".

He's trying to assign blame for tobacco deaths to Christianity? If atheism prides itself on being more logical and rational than everyone else, this guy isn't your best spokesman.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
L,

You demonstrate my point perfectly.

Who better than a Christian, steeped in the German idea that the Jews wear the guilt and blood of Jesus to enact The Final Solution?

As for Darwin, he, like so many of us, simply became too cool for the room.

DF

You missed it all together, DF, that was NOT the point.

I would say it goes beyond cool, more like 'cold'.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
quote:
The only people who pay attention to Megan Fox are boys under the age of 18. If it wasn't for Transformers she still would be a background TV actress that no one would know. She even admits that she isn't that great of an actress. And it's not the first time she's Said something off the wall. All within frequency of the upcoming release of a new film...


Uh, no. I guess I'm a dirty old man.

quote:
now Perez Hilton is taking flack for egging on Will.I.Am's body guard to punch him out by constantly throwing gay slurs at them at a party


How cool! Is there a you-tube video?

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with a billboard on I20, but between Megan Fox and Fred Phelps, this thread rocks.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
Not true,logical, the Atheists consider them 'hate speech' and contributing to the ignorance of the masses.

Tit for tat.


And your point is?

Y'all remember that stupid sign on the way to the beach that said, "Go to chrch or the devil will GET you!"

'Nuff said.

(edit: embarrasing spelling mistakes)
Last edited by Cookey
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Cookey:
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
Not true,logical, the Atheists consider them 'hate speech' and contributing to the ignorance of the masses.

Tit for tat.


and yur point is?

Y'all remember that stupid sign on the way to the beach that said, "go to chrch or the devil will GET you!"

'Nuffield said.


I think I remember seeing that sign on I-65, I think it was just south of Montgomery, may be wrong. Wish I had a picture of it.
Mr. HooberbloobMr. HooberbloobOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
"A country isn't great because of it's wealth, knowledge, or even power. It's great because of it's rightousness." Not true if by rrightousness you mean religousness.


According to various surveys between 86 to 95 percent of Americans claim to believe in God, compared to 61 percent of the British; nearly 80 percent of Americans claim to believe in heaven, compared to 50 percent of the British; 84 percent of Americans believe that Jesus is God or the son of God, compared to 46 percent of the British. How have the British fared with less religion? The Bureau of Justice Statistics released a detailed comparison of crime rates in the U.S. and England. The rate of murder, rape and robbery were significantly higher in this country than in the U.K. The U.S. murder rate was six time as high as England's.

The United Nations ranks Norway and Sweden as having the highest standards of living in the world. The percentage of adults surveyed who claim they attend church one or more times per week is United States, 44; Norway, 5; Sweden, 4. The percentage of atheists in Sweden is 46-85; Denmark, 43-80; Norway, 31-72. Yet they are blessed with extremely low crime rates. In 2004, the number of homicides per 100,000 of population was United States, 5.5; Sweden, 2.39; Denmark, 0.78; Norway, 0.78. Norway and Sweden were rated the world's least corrupt nations.

Japan, whose population is about 1 percent Christian, has a homicide rate of 0.5 per 100,000 while the the homicide rate for the overwhelmingly Christian United States is eleven times Japan’s rate. Does Christian dogma deter intolerance, hate and violence or contribute to it?

"How about China?" While "Godless" China is less than perfect; so is the God-fearing, genocidal Balkans. The fact remains that a secular society can be, and often tends to be, less violent and more ethical than a God-fearing society. China has made gigantic leaps forward, both economically and socially, in recent years. As for individuals, there are good and bad believers as there are good and bad non-believers.

With 67 percent of Alabamians labeling themselves "born again" (double the national average), the state ranks well above the national average in crime rate and divorce rate--rivaled only by other Bible belt states.

Where lies the world’s evil? It often lurks in the bastions of religious fervor, including: Islamic terrorists organizations; Northern Ireland where God-fearing Christians kill each other; ecclesiastical dens of pedophilia; the Bible belt where intolerance fosters hatred with vitriolic attacks on various “undesirable” groups.


The Japanese are the most predjudice people in the world. If they were to take over America, they would treat us the same way the Jews were treated in Germany. Talk to some of our GI's who survived being Japanese POW's.

You are now saying America is a Christian Nation? That's a 180 degree turnabout. We were a Christian nation, and the murder rate was a lot lower then. Since that time we have moved away from the one true God and now we are are in this mess.

Just saying "I'm a Christian" doesn't make you a Christian. The vast majority of those who say they are believe so only because they are or were a member of a Christian Church. The word Christian is probably the most misused word in America.

I can't believe you would even try to justify China as a successful Godless nation. I guess N. Korea is also a great place to relocate.

I do agree that most religions are bad. Not going to say evil, because that is the complete absence of good and there are some good people in non-Christian religions.

All of these numbers you keep throwing around are basically worthless. Seems like all of your ideologies come from meaningless polls and statistics. They are one dimensional and don't take into account a multitude of factors that interject major error into the results. For instance, your stat regarding America being a Christian nation and having a high murder rate. Well duh, like I've said before, this nation has denied God and we are in a death spiral of our own making. The actual small percentage of born again Christians in this nation can't carry the whole load themselves. I can just as easily go to Christian web sites and provide my own stats to the contrary of yours, but I believe I'll just use my eyes to observe the obvious.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
It does seem, well, tenuous. I can put to you that 90% of violent criminals enjoy sex, and the other 10% lie about enjoying sex. Does that mean that the enjoyment of sex causes violent crime?

A first look at statistics can often reveal things that are not there. Call your local neighborhood statistician for a correlation check. In the meantime, I'd have to agree that the numbers, as your source presents them, are useless.

quote:
Where lies the world’s evil? It often lurks in the bastions of religious fervor, including: Islamic terrorists organizations; Northern Ireland where God-fearing Christians kill each other; ecclesiastical dens of pedophilia; the Bible belt where intolerance fosters hatred with vitriolic attacks on various “undesirable” groups


Rampant emotionalism, and poor statistical presentation. Islamic terrorist organizations do not see themselves as "evil"; we categorize them thus. Similar for Northern Ireland, where some measure of a tenuous peace has broken out.

Ecclesiastical dens of pedophilia? Please. This sounds so terribly prejudicial one would think the writer was the victim of molestation. While you can argue that this exists, it's not an organizational mandate for any group.

And the bible belt where blah blah blah? Sure, again, there are bad things perpetrated. But this paints the entire "bible belt" with an imbecilic, racist, noose-tying, donkey-dragging, and sister-banging brush, as does the previous example. The vast majority of christians are not pedophiles, as your source seems to claim.

As some guy said, there are lies, d'ed lies, and statistics. Your source's statistics are unworthy of intellectual discussion.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
Hoobs,

How often can you be wrong?

During the war, lo those 65 years ago, Japan was a highly religious country. The Emperor WAS a god.

Now, Japan is a highly secular country, and its crime rate is low.

America is now more secular than ever, and it enjoys one of the lowest crime rates of its history. Not saying there is a correlation, but them's the facts.

quote:
I do agree that most religions are bad.


I just go one religion farther. Every Iranian agrees with you.

quote:
All of these numbers you keep throwing around are basically worthless.


We can't have little inconveniences like facts to get in the way of a pleasant delusion, can we?


DF
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
SYNOPSIS OF RECENT “DISCUSSIONS”

Principle tenet of Christian conservatives: If reason and evidence conflict with religious beliefs, reject reason and evidence.

Attempt to discredit anyone bringing unwanted information by: liberally using the word “hate” and the phrase “out of context;“ quoting the Bible; decreeing that a loving God will condemn them to eternal agony on judgment day, but spinning this to “you will be condemning yourself;“ creating a smokescreen by asking senseless questions and denying the veracity of every statement made.

Various surveys, e.g., Pew, Gallop, ARIS show that the South (Bible belt) is the most religious section of the country and the Northeast is the least religious.

The FBI reports year after year that the violent crime rate in the South is the highest in the country while the violent crime rate in the Northeast is the lowest. Apologist say there are socio-economic factors involved, e.g., education and poverty. True, the better educated are less religious and the poorer are more religious.

Why is there a high correlation between Christian religiosity and unacceptable behavior? Christian dogma teaches that Christ shed his blood for our sins. Thus, thanks to the sacrifice we are either without sin or at the least our sins do not matter. Our personal responsibility for our conduct has been removed by a myth.

Additionally, by accepting Christ as our “Lord and Savior,“ we will spend eternity in paradise regardless of our earthly behavior. “I believe” before we die atones for a plethora of bad behavior. The believer acts to achieve a future reward, the freethinker acts because it is right to abide by rational behavior--the Golden Rule which places the onus for behavioral decision making on the individual.

The believer asks God for behavioral guidance. Invariably, God gives the desired answer.
“Should I blow up an abortion clinic?” Yes. Are homosexuals an abomination? Yes. Are non-Christians worthy of scorn? Yes. Should I invade Iraq? Yes.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
The believer asks God for behavioral guidance. Invariably, God gives the desired answer.
“Should I blow up an abortion clinic?” Yes. Are homosexuals an abomination? Yes. Are non-Christians worthy of scorn? Yes. Should I invade Iraq? Yes.


Should I blame everything on Christians so I can feel good about my own path? Yes! Wink
LMMLMMOld Faithful
Going back to your BDS problem David, did FDR ask God before he bombed Japan into oblivion?

How about good ole Armanidinnerjacket?

Ahmadinejad, the current and most discomforting president of Iran, centers his Islamic faith on a Shiite conviction of the imminent return of Imam Mahdi who has been dead for over 1000 years now but is currently in constant contact with Mr. Ahmadinejad. Indeed, Iran’s president declared this past month that the long dead imam is directly involved in the day to day workings of the current Iranian administration.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
The believer asks God for behavioral guidance. Invariably, God gives the desired answer.
“Should I blow up an abortion clinic?” Yes. Are homosexuals an abomination? Yes. Are non-Christians worthy of scorn? Yes. Should I invade Iraq? Yes.


You have so much contempt for Christianity, but you don't know much about it.

Christianity teaches not to kill, that people are not an abomination, that we are not to scorn or judge others, and says nothing about invading Iraq.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LMM:
[QUOTE]Should I blame everything on Christians so I can feel good about my own path?/QUOTE]

Sure. Why not. The beauty of religion, including Christianity, is that you can do away with personal responsibility. That is probably a reason why atheism is so unatractive to believers. We have to answer to the most demanding of taskmastes--our own conscience.
We cannot just ask God for forgivewness when we act badly. Blaming others is the same idea--no personal responsibility for our own actions.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LMM:
[QUOTE]Should I blame everything on Christians so I can feel good about my own path?/QUOTE]

Sure. Why not. The beauty of religion, including Christianity, is that you can do away with personal responsibility. That is probably a reason why atheism is so unatractive to believers. We have to answer to the most demanding of taskmastes--our own conscience.
We cannot just ask God for forgivewness when we act badly. Blaming others is the same idea--no personal responsibility for our own actions.


Again, that's not what Christianity teaches at all. It teaches that there are consequences for our actions, not just in the next life but in this one. We've been given an example and a guide on how best to live our lives that not just benefits ourselves, but benefits others as well.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Christianity teaches not to kill, that people are not an abomination, that we are not to scorn or judge others, and says nothing about invading Iraq.


Murder: The Bible irrationally and cruelly demands the following shall be put to death, usually by stoning: Homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27-32; He that curseth his father and mother, Exodus 21:17 and Matthew 15:4; Witches, Exodus 22:18; Those who lie with beasts, Exodus 22:19; Worshipers of other gods, Exodus 22:20; People who work on the Sabbath, Exodus 31:15; Adulterers, Leviticus 20:10; Wizards, Leviticus 20:27; *****s, Leviticus 21:9; Blasphemers, Leviticus 24:16; Stubborn and rebellious sons, Deuteronomy 21:18-21; Thieves, Deuteronomy 24:7.

Those abominable homosexuals. Isn't biblical tolerance wonderful:"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20: 13. And in the NT, Romans 1:27-32.

"He that believeth not shall be****ed." Sounds like scorning to me.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Christianity teaches not to kill, that people are not an abomination, that we are not to scorn or judge others, and says nothing about invading Iraq.


Murder: The Bible irrationally and cruelly demands the following shall be put to death, usually by stoning: Homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27-32; He that curseth his father and mother, Exodus 21:17 and Matthew 15:4; Witches, Exodus 22:18; Those who lie with beasts, Exodus 22:19; Worshipers of other gods, Exodus 22:20; People who work on the Sabbath, Exodus 31:15; Adulterers, Leviticus 20:10; Wizards, Leviticus 20:27; *****s, Leviticus 21:9; Blasphemers, Leviticus 24:16; Stubborn and rebellious sons, Deuteronomy 21:18-21; Thieves, Deuteronomy 24:7.

Those abominable homosexuals. Isn't biblical tolerance wonderful:"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20: 13. And in the NT, Romans 1:27-32.

"He that believeth not shall be****ed." Sounds like scorning to me.


For the Old Testiment verses you posted, you'll have to take that up with folks of the Jewish faith.

If you had read Romans 1:27-32, you would have seen "They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

In other words, we're all guilty of sin so we're all in the same boat. It doesn't say the individuals are abominations as you claimed, it's addressing the deed itself.

The last verse you posted is Mark 16:16. "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Jesus said that, not other Christians. Christians were told not to judge others because as you've seen in the verse from Romans, we're all in the same boat.

I think you're not really getting this from the Bible, but pulling it from some website. Can you link it please?
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
quote:
Why is there a high correlation between Christian religiosity and unacceptable behavior?


Fine. Provide a statistical correlation. Failing that, provide a link to a site that claims statistical correlation. The degree of correlation can be measured. Without it, you're slinging numbers against the wall and seeing it they'll stick.

quote:
Christian dogma teaches that Christ shed his blood for our sins. Thus, thanks to the sacrifice we are either without sin or at the least our sins do not matter. Our personal responsibility for our conduct has been removed by a myth.


You clearly have no concept whatsoever about even what christianity claims. Your statements do not compute; at least, they have zero meaning to any rational person. It's a wholly unrealistic stretch of logic.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
Christian dogma teaches that Christ shed his blood for our sins. Thus, thanks to the sacrifice we are either without sin or at the least our sins do not matter. Our personal responsibility for our conduct has been removed by a myth.


You clearly have no concept whatsoever about even what christianity claims. Your statements do not compute; at least, they have zero meaning to any rational person. It's a wholly unrealistic stretch of logic.

Sorry Zip, I have probably been reading to many of Bill's "teachings."
What is the meaning of Christ's crucifixion?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Christian dogma teaches that Christ shed his blood for our sins. Thus, thanks to the sacrifice we are either without sin or at the least our sins do not matter. Our personal responsibility for our conduct has been removed by a myth.


You clearly have no concept whatsoever about even what christianity claims. Your statements do not compute; at least, they have zero meaning to any rational person. It's a wholly unrealistic stretch of logic.

Sorry Zip, I have probably been reading to many of Bill's "teachings."
What is the meaning of Christ's crucifixion?


No, that's not what Christian dogma teaches.

Christianity is simple. The penalty for sin is death, you've posted the verses that say this. That penalty has been paid for us by someone who was innocent of sin. By accepting that sacrifice, God sees Christ's innocence instead of our sin. This involves taking responsibility for what we've done, and we're all guilty of something, and asking forgiveness.

No matter what denomination, tradition, or label a church may apply to themselves, all Christianity believes that core value. We're saved through Christ.

I know not everyone believes this, many here consider it irrational and practicely insane. I did too at one time. However, my life since following Christ has been much more fulfilling than it was before. Take that for what it's worth, but that's just my story.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
"Christianity is simple. The penalty for sin is death, you've posted the verses that say this. That penalty has been paid for us by someone who was innocent of sin. By accepting that sacrifice, God sees Christ's innocence instead of our sin. This involves taking responsibility for what we've done, and we're all guilty of something, and asking forgiveness.

No matter what denomination, tradition, or label a church may apply to themselves, all Christianity believes that core value. We're saved through Christ."

Does this mean that my "sins" do not exist or that they do not matter? Since they have been paid for by Christ and I am forgiven, can I just fortget about them?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Does this mean that my "sins" do not exist or that they do not matter? Since they have been paid for by Christ and I am forgiven, can I just fortget about them?


How can be forgiven if you reject forgiveness?

Let's say you're in traffic court, you're there to pay a speeding ticket, but you can't afford it. The clerk hates to see you in this situation and offers to pay it for you and your charges will be dropped. If you don't pay, you go to jail. If you accept the offer, you walk away free. Do you accept it or reject it?
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
quote:
Christian dogma teaches that Christ shed his blood for our sins. Thus, thanks to the sacrifice we are either without sin or at the least our sins do not matter. Our personal responsibility for our conduct has been removed by a myth.


Christianity is not a "get out of hell free" card. Being a christian does not give you a free pass, regardless of what some may teach. There must be a genuine turing from the desire to commit sin as evidenced from what is in the deepest recesses of your heart. This part is not well understood, even among christians. Your personal responsibility for your conduct remains.

The crucifixion? Arguably, the most horrible death imaginable; reserved by Romans for the worst offenders. Mechanism of death is slow suffocation, as your diaphragm is extended and you have to fight for breath. Christians teach that Jesus willingly went to his death; similar to the Passover lamb, which was sacrificed. This action was in response to God's demand for justice which, admittedly, seems a bit severe.

As the blood-debt for sin was paid, mercy could be extended to those who would accept it. This was also similar to the Jewish practice of "the judas goat" who carried all transgressions into the wilderness. Jesus was crucified the day before Passover and removed from the cross before sunset, as custom dictated. His resurrection occurred on the Jewish holiday of the Feast of First Fruits; ostensibly the first fruits of the resurrection.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Does this mean that my "sins" do not exist or that they do not matter? Since they have been paid for by Christ and I am forgiven, can I just fortget about them?


How can be forgiven if you reject forgiveness?

Let's say you're in traffic court, you're there to pay a speeding ticket, but you can't afford it. The clerk hates to see you in this situation and offers to pay it for you and your charges will be dropped. If you don't pay, you go to jail. If you accept the offer, you walk away free. Do you accept it or reject it?


And if I have been convicted of murder, can someone assume the sentence for me, and I can go free?
Last edited by davidnmiles
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Does this mean that my "sins" do not exist or that they do not matter? Since they have been paid for by Christ and I am forgiven, can I just fortget about them?


How can be forgiven if you reject forgiveness?

Let's say you're in traffic court, you're there to pay a speeding ticket, but you can't afford it. The clerk hates to see you in this situation and offers to pay it for you and your charges will be dropped. If you don't pay, you go to jail. If you accept the offer, you walk away free. Do you accept it or reject it?


And if I am there for murder. Can someone assume the sentence for me, and I can go free?


You're changing the illustration, I will address that afterwards, I promise. Right now, let's stick to the given example. Would you accept or reject the clerk's offer?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
"As the blood-debt for sin was paid, mercy could be extended to those who would accept it."

Is the world a better place because of this crucifixion? Did it imporve the human condition? If so, when did this improvement begin--the day of the event, a year later, a century later, a millennium later, today?


It changed my life for the better. I've seen the effects of accepting Christ with other people I've know for a long time. I've also seen the vast number of Christian charitable orgianzations reaching out to others to serve them just as Christ taught. So did Christ sacrifice change the human condition? Most certainly.
D davidnmilesHall of Famer
"I've also seen the vast number of Christian charitable orgianzations reaching out to others to serve them just as Christ taught. So did Christ sacrifice change the human condition? Most certainly."

In other words without Christ's crucifixion, charitable organizations and charitable individuals would not exist. I guess if that is true, then it was a benefit to humankind.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Is the world a better place because of this crucifixion? Did it imporve the human condition? If so, when did this improvement begin--the day of the event, a year later, a century later, a millennium later, today?


Who can really say? A better world than what? How would it be if people had not embraced christianity? We can come up with an entire spectrum of scenarios, from idyllic to hellish.
8I8IHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
It changed my life for the better. I've seen the effects of accepting Christ with other people I've know for a long time. I've also seen the vast number of Christian charitable orgianzations reaching out to others to serve them just as Christ taught. So did Christ sacrifice change the human condition? Most certainly.


Nash, what if we found out that the Biblical tales aren't true.

Would that undo all of the good work done in the name of a non-existent god?

How would believers recant all of these miracles and faux feelings?

Based on population, it is very likely that most of the people on earth doing good deeds are not Christian.

I think religion or belief in Holy Ghosts isn't a requirement for being moral or doing the right thing.

Regards
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
If all the biblical tales weren't true, many people would lose their focus. Many would not.

Perhaps some who had done good in the name of God would not do any since it wouldn't help them. Others would because they are good at heart.

You are likely correct. Most people on earth who do good works are not christian. I think being a good and moral person will cause you to do good things and be moral. Simply being religious doesn't confer an quality of goodness and morality to you.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by 8I:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
It changed my life for the better. I've seen the effects of accepting Christ with other people I've know for a long time. I've also seen the vast number of Christian charitable orgianzations reaching out to others to serve them just as Christ taught. So did Christ sacrifice change the human condition? Most certainly.


Nash, what if we found out that the Biblical tales aren't true.

Would that undo all of the good work done in the name of a non-existent god?

How would believers recant all of these miracles and faux feelings?

Based on population, it is very likely that most of the people on earth doing good deeds are not Christian.

I think religion or belief in Holy Ghosts isn't a requirement for being moral or doing the right thing.

Regards


What if we found out they are?

There are plenty of great people out there who aren't religious, you're a good example. However, as for the question of what good has come from Christianity, it would be short sighted to answer "none".

How do you know those feelings are faux? How do that someone's changed life is strictly credited to themselves? With folks like Bill and a lot of churches in the Shoals, it's easy to dismiss the claims of Christianity. However, what if Christianity was really something different than the judgmental nonsense they proclaim?
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by 8I:
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:


I think you're not really getting this from the Bible, but pulling it from some website. Can you link it please?


I would guess from here: Link


Skeptics Annotated Bible is a pretty handy site.


I'll give them credit, they did post Christian responses to their critiques.

They aren't looking at the messages or historical context of the stories. This causes them to jump to conclusions in many cases that I've seen.

The Bible isn't easy to grasp at first glance. Biblical scholar Howard Hendricks summed it up pretty well. "Scripture does not yield it's fruit to the lazy. Like any other discipline of life, Bible study pays in proportion to how much of an investment you make. The greater the investment, the greater the reward".

So dissecting the Bible to try and pull out every bad thing there is, whether it's historically or theologically accurate or not, doesn't mean they understood the true message of the text.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I think you're not really getting this from the Bible, but pulling it from some website. Can you link it please?


Why the heck would it matter from where he pulled the evil verses? I tell ya what, why don't you give me the name of a website that you would prefer and invite David (or me) to pull those verses from there instead.

I bet you a whole dollar they would be perfectly identical.

Yes, all translations clearly state that people like me shall be stoned to death for denying the existence of a god.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
This is the site I use.

Link

Jesus did not teach that non believers would be stoned to death.


From your preferred source, BibleGateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019:11-27&version=31; ) "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

quote:
For your question about why the Bible is mistranslated, please go back and see my quote from Howard Hendricks.


Nash, I don't care what others think. If I want to know what Howard Hendricks thinks, I'll ask him. We want to know what you think. So are you saying that you think whatever Howard thinks?

I just looked at your preferred site for bible quotes and, sure 'nuff, it says the following are punishable by death, usually by stoning:

Homosexuals, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27-32; He that curseth his father and mother, Exodus 21:17 and Matthew 15:4; Witches, Exodus 22:18; Those who lie with beasts, Exodus 22:19; Worshipers of other gods, Exodus 22:20; People who work on the Sabbath, Exodus 31:15; Adulterers, Leviticus 20:10; Wizards, Leviticus 20:27; *****s, Leviticus 21:9; Blasphemers, Leviticus 24:16; Stubborn and rebellious sons, Deuteronomy 21:18-21; Thieves, Deuteronomy 24:7.

If you wanna be consistent, Nash, I'll give you a suggestion: Call the OT what it is: An evil abomination to god's word. Your kinder, gentler version of Christianity is sharply contrasted with the wickedness of Deuteronomy and Leviticus and the mythology of Genesis and the downright fire and brimstone of the entire OT itself. Why, its enough to cause one to erect a billboard in protest against the evil book.

But if you discount the OT, you're also going to have to dismiss Jesus' own proclamation that he was not there to do away with the old law, but to uphold the old law.

It's a never ending conundrum, isn't it? I find it easier to cal BS on the whole thing and look at the bible for what it is: The sometimes intelligent, sometimes insightful, sometimes evil, sometimes inconsistent, sometimes historical/allegorical/metaphorical book written by flawed men trying their best to understand their world prior to the invention of science.
Last edited by Cookey
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Nash, I don't care what others think. If I want to know what Howard Hendricks thinks, I'll ask him. We want to know what you think. So are you saying that you think whatever Howard thinks?


I posted Hendricks' quote because I agree with it and it best addresses the issue at hand. You're free to disagree with it.

As for the rest of your post, would you also say the Torah is an abomination of God's word or does that only apply when it's combined with the New Testament?

You also answered your own question in the same post. Yes, Jesus said he came to uphold the law. The law says that sin is punishable by death. He did not do away with that law, he upheld it with His own death. Like I said, you're free to disagree.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
As for the rest of your post, would you also say the Torah is an abomination of God's word or does that only apply when it's combined with the New Testament?


Huh? Nash, I call BS on all of it. The Torah, the Koran, the Bible - old and new testaments, Uranthra and a thousand other written revelations from thousands of other gods.

quote:
You also answered your own question in the same post. Yes, Jesus said he came to uphold the law. The law says that sin is punishable by death. He did not do away with that law, he upheld it with His own death. Like I said, you're free to disagree.


Of course I am free to disagree but that s only because our country was founded on secular principals that grant me that right.

The point, Nash, is that as much as your wriggle, wrangle, twist, turn and apologize, your bible is a flawed tool for your kinder, gentler religion that you claim. It is clearly wrought with pride, envy, lust, murder, rape and pillage committed by or approved of by God himself.

It's right there in black and white and red but your early-childhood brainwashing won't let you see it.

You have good people on this forum who can help you rationalize the inconsistencies. All you have to do is ask. But to pretend they don't exist is just moronic.
C CookeyPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
what would she (Megan's character in the movie) say to keep Megatron from destroying the world? "I'd barter with him and say instead of destroying the entire planet, can you just take out all the white trash, hillbilly, anti-gay, super bible beating people in middle America?"


Umm, you do know this is brilliantly reminiscent of the story of Lot bartering with God to not kill all the inhabitants of his city?

And, of course, this story is held out to be a literal example of God's penchant to kill anyone who disagrees with him.
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Of course I am free to disagree but that s only because our country was founded on secular principals that grant me that right.

The point, Nash, is that as much as your wriggle, wrangle, twist, turn and apologize, your bible is a flawed tool for your kinder, gentler religion that you claim. It is clearly wrought with pride, envy, lust, murder, rape and pillage committed by or approved of by God himself.

It's right there in black and white and red but your early-childhood brainwashing won't let you see it.

You have good people on this forum who can help you rationalize the inconsistencies. All you have to do is ask. But to pretend they don't exist is just moronic.


If you don't believe in theology, then why debate it? My personal theoligical views are of no consequence to you since you throw it all out the window. So why debate the details of my beliefs if you disagree with any possibility?

You also forget that I've gotten rid of my childhood religion. It was my childhood church that led me towards non-belief. So how can I be brainwashed from childhood if I've abandoned that church long ago?
C CookeyPost Master
Not going to address my points again? I expected no less. Oh well. I won't press you this time. I know where it will take us and I'm not in the mood.

quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
If you don't believe in theology, then why debate it? My personal theoligical views are of no consequence to you since you throw it all out the window. So why debate the details of my beliefs if you disagree with any possibility?


For some of the same reasons I enjoy visiting "Ripley's Beleive it or Not."

You and the Bloviator, Hooperstank, Rram and the other fundies are a museum of the mind - a living bone yard of intellectual curiosities, failed philosophies and logical fallacies.

I learn much from you, Nash, despite my name-callings to the contrary. Just as I learn something from visiting Ripley's.

quote:
You also forget that I've gotten rid of my childhood religion. It was my childhood church that led me towards non-belief. So how can I be brainwashed from childhood if I've abandoned that church long ago?


You may have walked out the door but you left your childhood there, buddy. Hell, eternal dangnation, penance for past sins and "saving grace" from future ones, denial of the facts, it's all there man. Sad (really!) but true.
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