I have questions for Bill - #2 the question

A Christian in name only.

So what do you call a faux Christian that will rub your face in his agenda

while damming you and your beliefs to hell..??

 

I've always felt the most influential Christians lead by example.

===========================

At one time or another every person on this forum that bill has gone after has told him the same thing-we/they/I don't want what you're trying to sell. I told him politely many times, and in strong terms other times, that if I ever started having doubts about my atheism I had many lovely true christian friends and relatives I could go to and discuss it. I talked to my christian friends and family when I started losing my belief, and all through it, until I got to the point that I knew the belief was gone, and finally allowed myself to accept it.

When you tell bill those things, he comes back with comments that demeans a person, and insinuates that the christians you know aren't "real" christians like he is, or that you weren't a real christian to begin with. I don't know what he is, but he's not a christian. One thing is obvious, he's a confused mess. He used to/maybe still does, tell crusty, invictus and other christians that they needed to be in a good church or some mess like that. He needs to take his own advice if he is serious about wanting to be a christian, because the cult mess he's in now has only made him crazy and given him a 'god complex'.

I never understood his wanting to tell his stories over and over, and keep repeating how awful his lifestyle used to be like he thinks everyone lives/lived like he did. I never cared for or had a wild life. And to all of you that still engage in his game, that's your right. By now everyone should know that he will never admit he's wrong, will never answer a question, will never do more than he does and has always done, and that is to vilify anyone and anything that doesn't agree with him. The only thing he wants from anyone is for them to say, "oh, you're so smart and wonderful, tell us more"!

 

That is true.  However, not all leaders who are influential -- are leading folks in the right direction.  It would seem that those who are on TV have a great deal of influence -- yet, the vast majority of those are false teachers and cult teachers.

 

Benny Hinn is a good example!  Joel Osteen is another.  Also, Oprah calls herself a Christian and is very influential -- yet she is definitely New Age all the way, not Christian.

 

Also, many supposed Christian leaders who are getting a lot of press coverage, such as the Pope, are leading folks down a "works salvation" path instead of the correct "by grace through faith alone" salvation path.

 

So, in conclusion, like smoking, following a leader because he is influential -- can be dangerous to your health, especially your spiritual health.

 

I think the best way to find the right leader, or leaders, is to apply the "Acts 17:11 Test" to all you hear and/or meet, i.e., test them and all their teachings against Scripture.   Works for me!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Let me clarify what I posted. By influential I don't mean most well known. I'm talking about influence that comes from your neighbors, friends, family members and people you may not meet in person but have contact with through mediums such as this forum.

One of the biggest positive influence a Christian can have on others is through actions. If you live the Gospel it will show. You don;t have to beat people over the head with the Bible. 

Smokey, my Friend,

 

Jesus Christ gave the Great Commission to ALL believers:

 

Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Acts 1:8, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you (when the believer is indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit); and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Mark 16:15, "And He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation.'"

 

Should everyone be just a "couch potato" Christian -- one who sits on his/her couch waiting for someone to come and ask about Jesus Christ?  Did Jesus tell us to take His Gospel to all the world?  Or, did He tell us to just sit on the couch and wait for the world to come to us?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill 

 

=======================

You would do better if you were a "couch potato Christian." Just from reading this forum you don't seem to have a positive impact on Christians or Atheist.

 

I know many Christians from different denominations who are true salt of the earth. They don't have to beat p[eople over the head with scripture like you do in order to positively influence others. Having said that, you interpret scripture your way and I'll interpret scripture my way.

So, Smokey, my Friend,

 

You seem to be suggesting that I disobey the Great Commission given to all believers by Jesus Christ.  Is that what you are telling me -- to be a "couch potato" Christian -- and disobey Christ?

 

I wonder if that is why YOU have chosen to follow the Pope and the Vatican -- instead of Christ and the Bible?   That would explain a lot.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

________

This is why I have Billy on block. Your post makes perfect sense but I imagine his reply is going to mock you, put down the way you believe, & tell you that you are not a Christian. It's just one more way for him to brag & put himself out there as  "The Christian", of which the majority of us know he is not.

_________________

No. Not at all.  It is like knowing that the Jehovah's Witnesses are just down the street, or a wacko fundamentalist.  Same type of ridiculousness, except the JWs have never been condescending, and usually aren't raging hypocrites.

______________

It's always about walking the walk.  Talk is just that.

 

Bill doesn't understand that the people who actually walk the walk are the ones who really influence others.  The talkers -like Bill - are just so much hot air.

=========================

 

You claim to be following Christ and his teachings in the bible, do you think Christ would talk to people the way you do? Do you think Christ approves of you attacking churchs that Christians attend?

 

Please tell me where in the bible Christ teaches bigotry? Chapter and verse please!

______

Bill does walk the walk AND talk.........of Satan.

Smokey, my Friend,

You tell me, "You claim to be following Christ and his teachings in the bible, do you think Christ would talk to people the way you do?  Do you think Christ approves of you attacking churches that Christians attend?"

First, I do not consider myself a "Bible teacher."  Instead I share the Word of God, discuss the Word of God, and point out what I believe the Bible is teaching us on issues of Christian doctrine and theology.

You ask, "do you think Christ would talk to people the way you do?"

You tell me.  To the scribes and Pharisees, i.e., the "Vatican type leaders" of that day -- this is what He said:

 

Matthew 12:34, “You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart."

Matthew 23:33, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?"

Matthew 23:27, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness."

Matthew 7:15, “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

Matthew 24:11, “Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many."

Matthew 24:24, “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect."

 

So, would Jesus Christ call out the false teachers, those who would lead folks into "religion" instead of into a Christian relationship with Him?  YOU BETCHA!

 

Then, you ask "Do you think Christ approves of you attacking churches that Christians attend?"

 

Christian churches?  NO. -- False religion based churches?   YOU BETCHA!   He did, so why would He not want us to do the same?  After all, we are called Christ Followers.

 

Finally, you ask, "Please tell me where in the bible Christ teaches bigotry? Chapter and verse please!"

 

Bigotry definition:  "intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself."

 

Now, where have we seen this in Scripture?   How about: Matthew 12:34 -- Matthew 23:33 -- Matthew 23:27 -- Matthew 7:15 -- Matthew 24:11 -- Matthew 24:24?

 

Smokey, my Friend, now you show me chapter and verse (from the Bible, not the Apocrypha) where we can find that Mary is Queen of Heaven, Mother of God, that she did not die but was raptured into heaven, that Mary was sinless, that Mary had no other children, etc. 

 

Then show us where you find the Eucharist in the Bible.  Forget John 6 for that happened many months BEFORE the Lord's Supper was instituted -- and in a totally different city.

 

Show in the Bible where the Roman Catholic church can declare a person to be a Saint -- especially where it tells them to do "group sainthood" declarations, as in Popes.

 

Matter of fact, show us ANY of the Roman Catholic church doctrines and teachings IN THE BIBLE.

 

Jesus tells us, “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect"  (Matthew 24:24).  

 

Wonder if He could have been thinking of the Vatican and the Popes?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

===========

 

i think ink you've gone off the deep end. You're an absolute nut  and the absolute definition of a bigot. 

Luke 1:43
"But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

That Catholic Church has NEVER taught that Mary is Devine, the church says Mary DID NOT preceded God in existence. 

The phrase " mother of God" is a title, and ONLY a title, that catholics get from the gospel of Luke.   It's that simple.

Hi David,

 

Luke 1:43, "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?"

 

Yes, Mary was indeed a beautiful woman who was blessed to have been chosen by God to be the womb through which the "human nature" of our Lord would be born.   That I will not deny.

 

However, nothing in Scripture tells us that she was the mother of the Son of God, the divine, eternal deity.  She bore His human nature to fulfill Scripture:

 

Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren (all believers) in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."

 

But, nowhere in Scripture is she attributed any nature except being a normal, sin-natured human being.  She is not divine; she was not born sinless; she is not any sort of supernatural being; she is not eternal or preexisting -- so therefore, she cannot be the Mother of God as stated in the Hail Mary prayer and in Roman Catholic teachings and catechism.

 

Question:  "Is Mary the mother of God (Theotokos)?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/Ma...r-God-theotokos.html

Answer:  The phrase “Mother of God” originated with and continues to be used in the Roman Catholic Church.  One of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 was the use of the Greek term Theotókos, or “God-bearer,” in reference to Mary.  That council officially proclaimed Mary as the “Mother of God,” and the doctrine was later included in the Catholic catechism. 

 

The idea behind calling Mary the “Mother of God” is that, since Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus, she is the mother of God.

The major problem with this logic is that the term “God” implies the totality of Yahweh, and we know that Yahweh has no beginning and no end (Psalm 90:2).  First Timothy 6:15-16 says that God is immortal.  Being immortal, God never was “born” and never had a “mother.” 

 

The second Person of the Trinity, Jesus, did have a beginning to His earthly ministry when he was conceived in Mary’s womb and was born, but from eternity past He had always been the Son of God.

Philippians 2:6–7 gives us a bit more insight on what transpired when Jesus left heaven to become man.  The New Living Translation says, “Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being.”

 

Jesus was already one with the Father, but He set aside His rights as Divinity and took the form of a baby (John 1:1).   He went on to live the normal life of a Jewish boy, obeying His earthly parents (Luke 2:51).

A mother by definition precedes her child and at some point is more powerful than her child.  So to call Mary the “Mother of God” gives the misleading implication that Mary preceded and at one time was more powerful than the Lord God Almighty.  Although Catholic doctrine tries to deny this implication, it is inescapable.

It is biblical to say that Mary was the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ during His incarnation on the earth.   However, Catholics believe it is not enough to say that Mary was the mother of Jesus.

 

Pope John Paul II, in a speech in 1996, encouraged people “not only to invoke the Blessed Virgin as the Mother of Jesus, but also to recognize her as Mother of God” (L'Osservatore Romano, 4 December 1996, p. 11).

 

This is not biblical.  The Lord God Almighty has no mother, since He has no beginning and no end (Genesis 1:1; Revelation 4:8).

 

Related Topics:

What is Mariology?    http://www.gotquestions.org/Mariology.html

Is Mary the co-redemptrix/mediatrix?   http://www.gotquestions.org/Ma...ptrix-mediatrix.html

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?   http://www.gotquestions.org/pe...-virginity-Mary.html

What is the immaculate conception?   http://www.gotquestions.org/im...late-conception.html

 

David, I know that your are one Roman Catholic with whom I can have a civil discussion without you getting nasty and calling name.   However, some of your Roman Catholic associates on the Religion Forum will, for sure, post negative name calling responses.  That I find sad, for the Religion Forum is intended to be a place where we can discuss our faith and even our differences in faith -- without being attacked. 

 

By its very nature, any discussion of the Christian faith should always be supported by Scripture -- which is what I normally always try to do.  You, too, most often do the same.  So, we just end up agreeing or disagreeing on the intended meaning, or interpretation, of that Scripture.  For this, I want to thank you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

lets see.. bill has time to write 10 pages of rant about how horrid it is to be catholic.. not one word to answer the crusty's question.. you remember.. the TITLE of this topic!!! .. funny how that works.

So Bill is saying Elizabeth was wrong in the gospel of Luke! He may want to reread that gospel.  Or, hey, maybe he's just playing semantics.

Hi David,

 

No, not at all.  However, there is nothing in that Scripture passage which tells us that Elizabeth believed Mary to be carrying God, Yahweh, in her womb.  By any stretch of the imagination Elizabeth was referring to the human baby which was in Mary's womb.

 

When Elizabeth met Mary, I have no doubt that she had been given a heads-up by the Holy Spirit.  This is affirmed in Luke 1:

 

Luke 1:41-44. "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.  And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!  And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?  For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.' "

 

Yes, Elizabeth knew, revelation from the Holy Spirit, that the child in Mary's womb was the Incarnate Son of God, Incarnate God.  Yet, she must have also had revealed to her that this was the "human" nature of Christ who had come to fulfill Scripture:

 

Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren (all believers) in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."

 

However, there is NOTHING in that Luke 1 Scripture passage which would lead anyone to believe that Mary was the Mother of God, as the Pope later declared:

 

Pope John Paul II, in a speech in 1996, encouraged people “not only to invoke the Blessed Virgin as the Mother of Jesus, but also to recognize her as Mother of God” (L'Osservatore Romano, 4 December 1996, p. 11).

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

What you've just said made no sense.  Sorry. 
Did anyone understand the above comment.   It read like a contradiction to me....

Hi David,

 

And, in what way does it not make sense?  You write, "So Bill is saying Elizabeth was wrong in the gospel of Luke!" 

 

And, I respond:

 

No, not at all.  However, there is nothing in that Scripture passage which tells us that Elizabeth believed Mary to be carrying God, Yahweh, in her womb.  By any stretch of the imagination Elizabeth was referring to the human baby which was in Mary's womb.

 

Okay, I can see where you might feel it to be a contradiction -- for I was not clear in my response.

 

My "No, not all" was a response to your statement that I was saying that Elizabeth was wrong.

 

And, the remainder of that paragraph was explaining why I do not think Elizabeth was wrong,  Instead, I believe you are wrong in assuming something in what Elizabeth said, which Scripture does not tell us.   That is reading INTO Scripture what is not there.

 

Then, I continue explaining what I believe is meant by that Scripture passage:

 

When Elizabeth met Mary, I have no doubt that she had been given a heads-up by the Holy Spirit.  This is affirmed in Luke 1:

 

Luke 1:41-44. "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.  And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!  And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?  For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.' "

 

Yes, Elizabeth knew, revelation from the Holy Spirit, that the child in Mary's womb was the Incarnate Son of God, Incarnate God.

 

That portion of my post is agreeing with you, based upon the nature of the Holy Spirit -- and what Scripture DOES tell us.  Namely, Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit -- and the baby, John, did jump in her womb when Mary approached.  This tells me that both Elizabeth and her baby, John, were acting under the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

Then, I continue:

 

Yet, she must have also had revealed to her that this was the "human" nature of Christ who had come to fulfill Scripture:

 

Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren (all believers) in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."

 

Which is Scripturally true.

 

Then, I conclude:

 

However, there is NOTHING in that Luke 1 Scripture passage which would lead anyone to believe that Mary was the Mother of God, as the Pope later declared:

 

Pope John Paul II, in a speech in 1996, encouraged people “not only to invoke the Blessed Virgin as the Mother of Jesus, but also to recognize her as Mother of God” (L'Osservatore Romano, 4 December 1996, p. 11).

 

How is this not clear?  What about what I have written is confusing to you?  What does not make sense to you?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Bill is playing his usual games to deny all that might hint of Catholicism.  If Jesus and God are one, and Mary is the mother of Jesus, then Mary is the mother of God.  Any other conclusion is twisted, fallacious logic, something that fundamentalist idiots are known for.

 

Why does Bill hate the Catholics so much?  I'm thinking that they disapproved of his divorce, just like Jesus.

______

Nice to see someone that feels the same way I do. There's a couple of people on here that love arguing with Bill, knowing all along that his answers will never change. They give him the audience he craves for the rants in which he loves to post.

===================

You're right Semi, but it's so difficult not to respond to his biggoted rhetoric. I really don't know what he thinks he's accomplishing by posting on this forum. He is not saving souls here due to his lack of credibility among the other forum readers. My wife is Southern Baptist and as long as I've attended church with her I've never seen anyone with his attitude towards other Christians.  

Oh and BTW....he still hasn't answered Crusty's question even tho he has plenty of time to start new discussions and respond to old discussions.

Semi, I would hate to see you leave and I hope you don't. It would be a shame for anyone like bill to be the reason. Too many good people have let him run them away when there is such an easy "fix". And that's just blocking him. 

=====================

Really? You don't know what he's accomplishing? It's very plain to see. He stays the center of attention. That's it in a nutshell. He craves attention, he gets it here. It's not about teaching or discussion, it's not about changing anyone's mind, he knows he can't do any of that, but he does get the attention he craves. He stirs up all of you and that gives him a boost in his otherwise empty life. That's how he gets satisfaction, he punishes you for not agreeing with him or wanting to play the game his way, and he feeds off your frustrations. And by that I mean the frustration that comes with trying to talk sensibly with him and failing. He's the kid that no one wanted to play with because it all had to be his way, the one that had to win even if it meant cheating, the one that got angry and scattered the toys when he couldn't win, the one that ran into others games and ruined it for them because they'd rather not play if it meant having to put up with him. He's the young man/older man none of the cute, nice, girls wanted to date, or be seen with, because they didn't want anyone to think they were with him, so he tries to punish all women who don't have low self esteem and aren't subservient to men. That's why he's immersed himself in a culture that sees women as servants and men as the "boss" no matter what. No one brags on him in real life so he comes here to brag on himself. He's not like any Baptist or other christian I know either. He actually seems more like the coc. But anyway, that's my two cents worth. As for people that want to waste their time arguing with him, it's their time to waste any way they want.

That's right, billie is a complete failure. a nasty little person with a hate for

religion among other things. He does what a coward does and using religion

as a hoodie trying to hide his distain for normal people that he can't connect

with is just his way of back stabbing anyone disagreeing with his lies. 

That's why he's immersed himself in a culture that sees women as servants and men as the "boss" no matter what.

________

I feel so sorry for Bill's wife. It would be wonderful if she could get some self-esteem & confidence to leave his sorry ass! She probably dislikes him as much as we do.

Chicky, my Friend,

 

You continue to bring my wife into this, so let me comment.  I did not lead my wife into Christianity -- she led me into faith in God and Jesus Christ.  It was through her Christian influence that I was finally able to find my way to the cross.

 

And, in our 36 years of marriage, 26 of those years we have been walking, hand in hand, side by side -- in Christian faith.  In other words, she and I are walking together -- in the same direction toward eternal life in Christ.

 

On the other hand, you have told of a number of times that your husband is a Christian believer -- AND YOU ARE NOT!

 

So, what do we see in your marriage?  We see your husband walking in the direction of eternal life in Christ.  And, we see YOU walking in the opposite direction!   Can that be good?

 

Yes, I know!  Right now you will tell everyone, "Bill Gray has done it again!  He has condemned me to hell!"

 

No, my dear Friend, I have not condemned you to hell.   YOU ARE DOING IT YOURSELF!

 

No one can condemn a person to hell, not even God.  The only person who can condemn YOU to hell -- IS YOU!

 

One would think that you would see your husband walking with Christ -- and want the good that he has found in Christ.  But, no, pig headed you -- you insist that you are happy to be going to hell.  DUH!

 

I pray that some day your husband does exert some influence over you -- and you will allow him to point you in the direction of eternal life in God.  If not, so sad.

 

Bless your confused little heart! 

 

Bill

I've asked questions and Bill still hasn't answered.   So, I understand the frustration.

Hi David,

 

While neither I, nor anyone else, can respond to all comments on the forum -- I do attempt to respond to those who are civil and serious, or when their comment/question can be used to explain more about a given issue. 

 

I will admit to ignoring many comments from the hard-core cabal group.  I have often said that I do not like to join in on "spitting contests."  And, with that group -- most of what they write falls into that pond.

 

However, most of the time you are civil and offer good comments/questions.  So, with you and others similar, I do try to respond.  However, even with that -- I will not always be able.

 

Typically, when I write, it is to expand upon a Biblical or societal issue.  What sets my priorities?  First priority is when I feel that God has put an issue or thought on my heart which I can share.  Next are those Friends such as you who ask a question or make a comment which can be used to share on an issue.

 

That said, I do not recall any questions you have asked that I have not given a response.  If I have overlooked any, please refresh my memory.

 

Thank you and God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

I asked you, Bill, do you only ask The Lord for forgiveness ONCE in your life because you are once saved always saved?

===========

 

The bigot actually makes me feel good about myself and being Catholic. 

David, my Friend,

 

Thank you for your patience.  If you will visit the new discussion titled "Salvation And Confession -- What's The Difference?" -- you will find that I have finally answered the question you asked.

 

But, you better hurry -- before the "you know who" crowd hijacks another discussion -- because it is Christian and that is against their religion.  It is their same old "I don't understand it -- so I'll do my best to destroy it" tactic.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

-------------------------------------

 

He shouldn't make anyone feel bad. I feel bad for my Baptist family and friends, because I hate to think that others might judge them by him.