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Bill claims that he wants to tutor me in the Bible.  So far I have asked 3 questions of Bill.

Bill's answer to the first question was to state that Jesus was wrong, that we shouldn't follow his example, and that somehow the Bible still allows for practices contrary to what Jesus teaches us.  Score one for fundamentalist hypocrisy.

I'm still waiting on a response from Bill on question #2.  He can't answer it without either scoring another point for fundamentalist hypocrisy or finally admitting that he is practicing a failed theology.

I asked the following question of Bill, and all I got was "you are building glass outhouses", and some other senseless drivel.  I think Bill can do better, or at least he can score another point for fundamentalist hypocrisy, or admit to practicing a failed theology.

Let's try again, and see if Bill will at least attempt to give a rational answer.  Or will Bill just have to concede that he can't tutor me in the Bible, and certainly is a failed Christian who should be tending his own house before he tries to set someone else straight?

So far we have established that Bill believes the following:
1.  Once save, always saved.
2. The Bible is to be taken literally except for obvious uses of metaphors, simile and symbolism.
3. Everything in the New Testament, including all of Paul's writing, is God's word to us, straight from God, and God doesn't change his mind.
4. If someone willfully disobeys the Bible, then they were never Christians, and still aren't.
5. God and Jesus are omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and continue to work here on earth and in heaven.

Question #3 for Bill.

Bill, do you believe that the earth is flat?  Or is the Bible wrong?

Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world" "Daniel 4:10-11."These are the visions I saw while lying in bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. " Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

These first three can only happen if the earth is flat.

Isaiah 40:22: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like gr*****ppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."

Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Now these aren't the only scriptures that show the earth to be flat:

"...flat-earth advocates often give long lists of texts. Samuel Birley Rowbotham, founder of the modern flat-earth movement, cited 76 scriptures in the last chapter of his monumental second edition of Earth not a Globe. Apostle Anton Darms, assistant to the Reverend Wilbur Glenn Voliva, America's best known flat-earther, compiled 50 questions about the creation and the shape of the earth, bolstering his answers with up to 20 scriptures each."

I'd like for you to refute these gentlemen, Biblically.

 

Also, you are a big proponent of a seven day creation as it is outlined in the Bible.  Let's look at that for a second.

 

"The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault. Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above") the vault."

'The vault of heaven is a crucial concept. The word “firmament” appears in the King James version of the Old Testament 17 times, and in each case it is translated from the Hebrew word raqiya, which meant the visible vault of the sky. The word raqiya comes from riqqua, meaning “beaten out.” In ancient times, brass objects were either cast in the form required or beaten into shape on an anvil. A good craftsman could beat a lump of cast brass into a thin bowl. Thus, Elihu asks Job, “Can you beat out [raqa] the vault of the skies, as he does, hard as a mirror of cast metal (Job 37:18)?” '

"Elihu's question shows that the Hebrews considered the vault of heaven a solid, physical object. Such a large dome would be a tremendous feat of engineering. The Hebrews (and supposedly Yahweh Himself) considered it exactly that, and this point is hammered home by five scriptures:

  • Job 9:8, “...who by himself spread out the heavens [shamayim]...”
  • Psalm 19:1, “The heavens [shamayim] tell out the glory of God, the vault of heaven [raqiya] reveals his handiwork.”
  • Psalm 102:25, “...the heavens [shamayim] were thy handiwork.”
  • Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...”
  • Isaiah 48:13, “...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...”"


"If these verses are about a mere illusion of a vault, they are surely much ado about nothing. Shamayim comes from shameh, a root meaning to be lofty. It literally means the sky. Other passages complete the picture of the sky as a lofty, physical dome. God “sits throned on the vaulted roof of earth [chuwg], whose inhabitants are like gr*****ppers. He stretches out the skies [shamayim] like a curtain, he spreads them out like a tent to live in...[Isaiah 40:22].” Chuwg literally means “circle” or “encompassed.” By extension, it can mean roundness, as in a rounded dome or vault. Job 22:14 says God “walks to and fro on the vault of heaven [chuwg].” In both verses, the use of chuwg implies a physical object, on which one can sit and walk. Likewise, the context in both cases requires elevation. In Isaiah, the elevation causes the people below to look small as gr*****ppers. In Job, God's eyes must penetrate the clouds to view the doings of humans below. Elevation is also implied by Job 22:12: “Surely God is at the zenith of the heavens [shamayim] and looks down on all the stars, high as they are.” "

"This picture of the cosmos is reinforced by Ezekiel's vision. The Hebrew word raqiya appears five times in Ezekiel, four times in Ezekiel 1:22-26 and once in Ezekiel 10:1. In each case the context requires a literal vault or dome. The vault appears above the “living creatures” and glitters “like a sheet of ice.” Above the vault is a throne of sapphire (or lapis lazuli). Seated on the throne is “a form in human likeness,” which is radiant and “like the appearance of the glory of the Lord.” In short, Ezekiel saw a vision of God sitting throned on the vault of heaven, as described in Isaiah 40:22."
There you have it, Bill.  The Bible clearly states that the earth is flat, and that the "heavens" (the space above our flat earth) is a vault. 

 

So tell me, is the Bible wrong, or just your mistaken interpretation of the Bible?  You can't say that the universe was created in seven days and at the same time maintain that the earth is not flat.

 

Please attempt to refute any of the above using the Bible.

 

=======================

Welcome to Alabama! Cut your grass or we'll whoop your ass. -- NashBama

un til them go OBAMA and hang in their. -- rechardbettyrey

you are the most dishonest person I havem ever met on the Religion Forum! -- Bill Gray

Last edited by CrustyMac
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Crusty, my Friend,

 

As I have often written -- anyone can make claims and accusation -- as long as no one asks them to show proof.

 

You falsely state:

 

Bill's answer to the first question was to state that Jesus was wrong, that we shouldn't follow his example, and that somehow the Bible still allows for practices contrary to what Jesus teaches us.  Score one for fundamentalist hypocrisy.

 

SHOW ME anywhere that I have written or said that Jesus Christ was wrong, or is ever wrong.

 

When I make a statement, I will support that with Biblical Scripture or I will support it with a link to the source I am quoting.

 

You do neither!  All you do is have a bad case of "keyboard diarrhea" and hope that no one notices the smell.

 

Sorry, my Friend, but until you learn how to have a dialogue -- trying to communicate with you would be like talking to a wall.

 

Bless your dishonest little heart!

 

Bill

SenileMan_Computer

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Hi all,

 

It is almost comical (if it were not so sad) how my Friend, Crusty, when called out about a false statement made my him -- WILL NOT ANSWER.  Instead, he waits for others in the small "cabal of darkness" to answer FOR HIM. 

 

Back in grade school, we also had folks like him; cowardly kids who would hit someone in the back -- and then run and hide behind big brother or a teacher for protection.  Oh, well, what can we expect?  Small mind, big falsehoods!

 

Bless his cowardly little heart!

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

It is almost comical (if it were not so sad) how my Friend, Crusty, when called out about a false statement made my him -- WILL NOT ANSWER.  Instead, he waits for others in the small "cabal of darkness" to answer FOR HIM. 

 

Back in grade school, we also had folks like him; cowardly kids who would hit someone in the back -- and then run and hide behind big brother or a teacher for protection.  Oh, well, what can we expect?  Small mind, big falsehoods!

 

Bless his cowardly little heart!

 

Bill

______________________

OMG, Bill.  Give me an hour or two.  I'll be glad to show you proof. 

 

Oh, and this is just a song-and-dance, smoke-and-mirrors move to divert attention away from your non-response.

 

Crusty, my Friend,

 

I sincerely hope that "OMG" was the beginning of a prayer.  Otherwise, you are in deep donkey stuff!

 

Exodus 20:7, “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain."

 

Make sure you shower before coming back on the forum -- for I think you are walking in the deep stuff.

 

Bless your simple little heart!

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Crusty, my Friend,

 

As I have often written -- anyone can make claims and accusation -- as long as no one asks them to show proof.

 

You falsely state:

 

Bill's answer to the first question was to state that Jesus was wrong, that we shouldn't follow his example, and that somehow the Bible still allows for practices contrary to what Jesus teaches us.  Score one for fundamentalist hypocrisy.

 

SHOW ME anywhere that I have written or said that Jesus Christ was wrong, or is ever wrong.

 

When I make a statement, I will support that with Biblical Scripture or I will support it with a link to the source I am quoting.

 

You do neither!  All you do is have a bad case of "keyboard diarrhea" and hope that no one notices the smell.

 

Sorry, my Friend, but until you learn how to have a dialogue -- trying to communicate with you would be like talking to a wall.

 

Bless your dishonest little heart!

 

Bill

 

_________________

For your review:

 

Link

 

I gave you several examples where Jesus says that you should do your praying in private.  You disagreed with that, therefore you disagreed with Jesus.  You go on about how public prayer over school and stadium intercoms is not only okay, it is great.  Jesus says no such thing.  Therefore you are saying that Jesus is wrong. 

 

Bill, I don't know what is happening to your memory, but I have to correct you all the time.  Any time you "call me out", I've responded and given proof.  In all the times I've asked you "show me where I've said that", you have never responded. 

 

As for not answering you, when will you finally give me an answer to questions #2 and #3?  You've had weeks - heck months - and still nothing. 

 

 

Last edited by CrustyMac
quote:    Originally Posted by House of David:
Crusty,  Bill can't answer your questions because he doesn't know how to defend his own beliefsHe's a false teacher. 

David, my Friend,

 

On another discussion, I just posted that most of the time I respect your responses -- because you do try to give civil, intelligent comments/questions.

 

Then, I stroll over here and find that you have changed dresses -- from your civil attire, to your dusty, ragged old cabal attire.   That makes me sad; for I do believe you have the intelligence and ability to keep our discussions on an adult, civil level.  So, why do you, at times, slip into that ugly old cabal dress?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Pitiful-Pearl

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