If surviving a tornado proves there is a god...

I've wondered the same thing, with no hint at all of sarcasm. I've often wondered how those people feel that have lost loved ones when they hear others say God was with them & protected them from harm/death. Why was He not with & protecting those that died?

I've seen versions of this question asked and answered (in various ways) countless times, 'though clearly not to your satisfaction.

Attaching what you admit to be a mildly sarcastic query to a very real a current tragedy reads like a most inhuman type of jab to me.

I can hook you up with a much more helpful use of that energy if you're interested.

This was intended for who?

I think it's a very thought provoking question. I wish I had a good answer for you.  All I can say is I believe in God, but I don't understand a lot of things that happen. 

It was an awesome, no way to describe it, amazing, once in a lifetime (I hope) unreal display of nature showing it's ass, and anyone that went through it and thinks a god had a hand in it in any way is very stupid indeed.

I was just about to say, "This question has been asked in various different forms SO many times on this forum". It HAS been answered so many times, and most often the answer is overlooked, forgotten, or just ridiculed by some.

Look, tornado, car crash, cancer - whatever the reason for a person's death, it is hard for the survivors to accept, and for those who DO survive such things, it is human nature to feel singled out and "lucky", or in the case of Christians, blessed, to have survived when so many others did not.

When my sweet husband died of cancer, I prayed and prayed that he would be spared. When it became obvious that he would not survive, I prayed and prayed that he would be safe in the arms of our Lord. And BECAUSE I believe, I could accept his loss as God's will. I don't UNDERSTAND why God chose to let him die, but I ACCEPT that God had a good reason. I KNOW that as a mere human being, I cannot understand the mind of God, but I love and trust Him, so I accept.

My faith gives me inner peace. If a tornado cruised through here right now, I would thank God if I survived it, and I would thank God if I did NOT. I would be more apt to question why I survived - I would ask the Lord what it was He wanted me to do, because He obviously spared me for some reason.

And if I did not survive, I would be thanking Him for letting me know Him in life, so that I can now spend eternity in His presence.

Very honest & respectful answer. Thanks.

1) A 'hint' of sarcasm, meaning there is great irony in the preceding view & I want to point out that irony.

2) Are you calling me out? How big of a boy are ya? (as Roy D Mercer would say.)

Hi O No!

The Bible says Asked & ye shall receive, that all it takes is the faith of a mustard seed. I’m sure when you were praying for your husband to be spared, you had at least the faith of that mustard seed or you wouldn’t have been asking. Did you not get a little angry when your husband died, that God didn’t do what He said he would? That He kind of thumbed his nose at your faith?

I know that we all have a time to die, but why in so much pain with these horrible diseases, sufferings of abuse, a horrible car accident? Dying would be much easier on the people left behind if they just went to sleep & didn’t wake up. Or at least, that’s the way I see it.

I definitely don’t understand the mind of God. My Daddy used to say we shouldn’t question Him but I can’t help not to.  How am I supposed to have faith in something I don’t understand? 

I am very sorry for your loss. Cancer has hit very close to home for me also.

Not really stupid, Jenn. They just have faith in a God that you & I can't seem to find. I suppose during times like these recent tornado's they have to have something to believe in & hold on to. 

1) I get that, but I find it to be in poor taste given the current suffering just down the road. A bit of a "kick while you're down".

2) I dunno... medium sized? More of a tall than a wide. You can ride with me. It'll save fuel.

Hi O No,

Thank you for that wonderful response.  It is well stated and I, as a Christian, completely agree with you.  Thank you for sharing this.

All I can add is:  AMEN!  AMEN!  AMEN!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The offense (kick) that I would take is implying that god loved you more than my loved one who was taken by the storm.

If you:

I was saved= God was with me

Then you:

Someone else died= God wasn't with them

I have read with great interest the question of why? some survive and some die in specifically the tornadoes of April. The answers, some of which I agree with and some make me want to cry; are at least honest.  "Oh No", I am sorry for the lose of your husband.  But am happy that your faith in God is seeing you through. 

For those of you who question with or without sarcasim, you are not alone.  I question it myself; and I am a born again christian.  My faith in God and his almighty power is very strong, but my humanity makes me weak.  I lost a dear relative along with her husband, aunt and grandmother.  She was a wonderful christian woman with the voice of an angel.  She used her voice to spread the word of our Dear Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.  So naturally I wonder why she was taken and some who seemed to do nothing for God, anyone else, or even themselves.  But like others, my faith gives me peace while still here on this earth. 

The first part of 1) escapes you.

At any rate, you're perfectly welcome to join the relief effort if you're not currently commited to an aspect of it. It's mostly quantifiable and visible to the unaided eye, so I would think it'd appeal to you. And again, free ride/good company.  

I would also like to say to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read ROMANS CHAPTER 12.  I prayed and searched for scripture that might give you all an answer.  God gave this to me.  I'm not implying that you will instantly say, "oh why didn't I think of that".  I certaintly have no desire to insult or offend anyone.  I truly want to help you as well as myself try to understand these kinds of occurances.  Maybe it will help.  But God bless all of you.

From one Christian's perspective and regarding God, Tornadoes, Earthquakes, and other tragedies it is human nature for people to want to attribute good or blame negative things on God or some force beyond their own control.   There was a time, in God's relation with Man/Woman/Humans that actions on man's part could and potentially would invoke the wrath of God.  Often, as documented in Scripture, that wrath was unto generations to come.  

It also, to many, may seem unfair ( in human wisdom terms ) actions attributed to God in His dealings with humans before the time of Christ but when we make judgments about God and how He has dealt or will deal with humans but when we do so then we are using Human wisdom and only those morals or judgments within our own minds to apply to God as if He is somehow constricted to existing as a Human with our human limitations.

Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross and His ministry began a "New Covenant" or "New Agreement" between God and His people.  We Gentiles became partakers in this agreement due to Israel's rejection.  With the New Covenant God no longer deals with people by sending plagues or immediate Judgment upon a land or peoples due to their acts or actions no matter what the Westboro Baptist Church teaches or wants to believe.  God deals, today, with men/woman/humans on a very intimate and personal level through His Holy Spirit.  

To His people, Saved, Believers, Christians, through Christ He (God) places His Holy Spirit within their physical bodies dwelling/living alongside their inner spirit/souls and ministering to them.  Sin in a Christian's life grieves the Holy Spirit and thus the Christian does not have clear fellowship with God and the benefits of the Holy Spirit, in the Christian's life, are not realized as they are when the Christian is living in God's Will according to God's Will and teachings.  For the non-Christian, the non-believer as well as the Christian ultimate Judgment for their sins and life is appointed to a point in the future when all humankind will be judged at the Judgment seat of Christ (Saved) and the Great White throne Judgement (Unsaved & Unbelievers).  

Getting back to the initial question, in this thread, I do not believe therefore that God sends judgment in the form of earthquakes and tornados today.  As for countries, such as the US, I do believe that although God doesn't produce His wrath upon our land I do believe that God can protect or show favor to a land or Country say for their support and help to God's people, Israel.  That's just my belief but some would say it is inconsistant to say God doesn't provide judgment by His Wrath on a land and then say He shows favor  to the land.

The other significant difference in God's relationship to humans with Christ (and there are many) is that through the Holy Spirit God communicates to each Christian/person intimately .. one on one rather than going through a priest.  Also where, before Christ, God would look at man/woman/humans seeing a sinful creature or imperfection under Jesus Christ, by virtue of His perfect Shed Blood on the Cross, God sees not our sinfulness but rather God see's justification.  We (Christians, Believers etc) are justified by Christ Blood.  Before Christ blood sacrifices were made annually for God's people (Israel/Jews) by the Preist using the most perfect lamb that could be found or purchased.  After Christ, Jesus became that perfect sacrificial Lamb for our Sinfulness therefore that is how we, a mere human, can actually have God's Holy Spirit dwelling within alongside of our spirit/soul.  Only because Christ Blood cleans us Justifies us wholly satisfying God's requirements.  Without Christ man/woman/humans would have to live a perfect life totally sinless to have that type of relation with man/woman/humans .   

Surviving or not surviving a tragedy whether earthquake/tornado/hurricane or the death of a child or loved one doesn't prove God or mean God doesn't exist.  For the Christian who has God's Holy Spirit to minister to their needs and suffering it doesn't mean it is all good and that nothing hurts but it does help in dealing with such events.  It gives the believer perspective and the believer knows that they are not enduring such alone.  It gives hope, peace, and comfort from within and even without having loved ones around to comfort them.  The Holy Spirit/God gives the Christian/believer hope and a reason to continue and carry on.  That is my belief and feeling about being a Christian when things go terribly wrong.

It is one of those things that is seemingly inconsistant with being human.  How can one feel peace, comfort, security and love when tragedy strikes and all is lost?  It is only because of the Holy Spirit of God.  God's miraculous comfort and ministering to each hurting soul  it is the same POWER that from within allows a human to totally alter and change their life virtually overnight or instantaneously whether it be habits that have enslaved someone or a total life of sinfulness and evil.  God's Holy Spirit is the enabling force by which Humans can do un-Human things and have uncharacteristic reactions to events that normally would cause just the opposite reactions.  

For those of you who have suffered and know what I mean I sincerely am regretful for your sorrow and your pain but know that in your celebration of God's love God will work through you in a powerful way as a witness and testimony to others who know not such hope and comfort.

AU, these occurances happen because of weather conditions. Sorry for your loss, we lost a friend too.

Hey guys I said ROMANS CHAPTER 12.  I actualy meant CHAPTER 5.  However, read them both they are great passages.  Again God Bless

Semi asked:

"Hi O No!

The Bible says Asked & ye shall receive, that all it takes is the faith of a mustard seed. I’m sure when you were praying for your husband to be spared, you had at least the faith of that mustard seed or you wouldn’t have been asking. Did you not get a little angry when your husband died, that God didn’t do what He said he would? That He kind of thumbed his nose at your faith?"

Semi, there are probably thousands (millions?) of CONFLICTING prayers that are sent up every day. Someone might be praying that their son hits a home run during a little league game while that parents of the pitcher are praying that he pitches a no hitter.

That is why I believe that when He says, "Ask and Ye shall recieve", He means that if you ask with sincerity, you will recieve what is BEST for you, even if it is not necessarily what you WANT. Think about it for a second - what we ask for is what we think will make us happy - right?

 I WANTED to keep my husband with me, but God had good reason to take him. No, I can't understand the reason, but my faith became even STRONGER after losing him. Maybe if he had lived, we would have continued on our merry way, believing in God, but not letting Him run our lives.

After I lost him, I knew I couldn't do anything, or even think clearly anymore - so I asked God to take over. I stopped making decisions and let God run the show. He took over my life and has made it SO GOOD! Where I am and what I'm doing makes me happyier than I have ever been, and I know I am doing what the Lord wants me to do, which makes it even more satisfying.

Of COURSE I miss my husband. I loved him more than life, and would have gladly died in his place. But I know he is with God now because his work was done on this earth. I still have work to do, and when it is my time, I'll be standing by his side, my hand in his, worshipping our God together.

Living through a tornado does prove there is a God. Dying also proves theres a God.

As does the rain, a oak tree hundred feet tall or a dead fig tree that didn't produce.

More times than not, life is going to be tough and hard on us and thats the way

it is in the world we shaped ourselves. Its not the one God planned for us.

How else are we to strengthen our character and grow in faith.

.

Jennifer, you are so right.  This was a weather condition.  And my heart goes out to you also.  But who is in control of the weather and everything else on earth and in the universe? God.  We will never understand completely anything in our human brains.  That is why the Holy Spirit was sent so that our faith and trust in Him would give us peace and understanding.  Also looks like "GBRK AND INVICTUS pretty well summed up Romans Chapters 5 and 12.

Ono I am sorry about your loss. I am sure he was a sweet man. He was lucky too. He had a good woman. I am glad you recovered and are happy now and I wish I had your faith. Your belief in God is a source of strength to you and has helped you through a horrible time.

You know how I believe, and we won't talk about that right now. It is not the time. I admire your determination and encourage you to keep that faith. It is good for you, and you are a good ambassador for your faith.

You go girl.

Thanks Blue. My faith has helped me get through the good times too. When I first came to God, it was during a time when life was so GOOD, it was overwhelming. I decided there HAD to be a God, because I HAD to thank Him. Some people find God when times are tough and they need someone to turn to. I found Him when times were good, so when times did get tough, He was already right there in my heart.

The physical laws of GOD are also obeyed.

God has given man a set of physical laws.

Man has no choice in being governed by these laws or not.

Death is at the hand of these physical laws that God has given and there is no choice in the matter.

You have no choice but to be satisfied with the results of these physical laws.

On the other hand God has given mankind spiritual laws.

These laws, you have the power to obey or not to obey.

You also have the power of prayer concerning events after these physical laws have taken your life at some point.

Your life or that of a loved one may be shortened by these physical laws and there is a randomness as to who is next to die due to these physical laws.

Just be ready when God’s physical laws kill you. SIMPLE.

It's logical to blame God and his physical laws for death.

Blame yourself for a spiritual death.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

So let's hear about these physical laws, buf.

C'mon....Lay 'em on us. Like you usually say-The details, as it were.

F=ma will probably get it in most cases pup.

Pup, surely you have no problem giving God credit for this law. Or do you think some man invented it before Newton discovered it.

Life is often hard, that much is true. But if you believe in a Christian god then this world of suffering is one that He clearly planned for us, as He knew what would happen every step of the way. The idea that Adam and Eve took your god's gift to choose and made a choice against His stated directions and that because of it, every human that's ever lived faces the prospect of a tough life and then eternal torture after death is part of His design too. I could go on, but suffice it to say that it stands to reason that this is exactly the world that your god planned for us.

)(*#)%*#)it, I haTe this software.  I just lost 300 words in response.

O, I am sorry for your loss.  We all have lost loved ones, and in the end, we will lose life ourselves.  C'est la vie.  Et la mort.

No amount of Free Will excuses tornadoes.  If we are to assume the hand of god in them, whether in the saving of a particular individual or the wholesale deaths of hundreds, we must attribute them both to the same god.

It's easier, and much more likely, that we are simply creatures among creatures who must endure the violent weather of a planet with a wet atmosphere.  The same atmosphere that makes life possible takes some of it from time to time.  No worries.  In any case, a storm shelter will do more to protect one from storm injury than a lifetime of prayer.  When one looks at it that way, there are no mysteries, no questions, no facile falling back onto the inscrutability of god's plan.  No superstition is necessary.

Why would anyone give god credit for saving a puppy from a tornado, yet fail to blame him for hundreds of human deaths from the same storm?

DF

O No, you know how I feel (since we have discussed this in PM’s) about the death of my child. I can’t see that asking God for my child to live would have made me unhappy if he had lived. How could his dying have been BEST for me?

I know you miss your husband as I do my child. You’re a good friend! 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Semi,    I saw your response to O No! above and I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss.  I cannot conceive of the loss of a Child or a SoulMate for I can only envision to go through something like that to be horrendous.  Both of you certainly have earned your right to speak your thoughts and questions.  Know that beyond what else we discuss, on here, I am profoundly sorry that there is no good words to say that will ease your pain  but I hope and pray you can find some comfort in knowing that regardless of our beliefs and positions on here we feel for your loss and just wanted to say I'm sorry.

---------------------------------

I'm not going on with this either, but suffice to say, Its the only way to separate

the people of faith who know God and love him for who he is and not how much

you can get out of him.

God's plan was Paradise for us, Yes, he knew what was next and also knew

our human side working with our free will is the determining factor of

who we are and how we turn out. Could you call it a test??

Iv

Did he also know that his tornadoes would kill hundreds in Alabama and Missouri?  Did he allow them?

If your god sends tornadoes to kill us, then you can keep him.  Either he's responsible for the saved puppy from among the ruins AND the tornado, or neither.  You can't have it both ways.

DF

No doubt it does present a quandary to Christians and, believe it or not, sometimes we are at a loss for a rational answer or one that would make sense to all.  As far as credit or blame for God based upon the outcome of a storm or other tragic event then a lot of times the answer is effected by a person's internal bias.  There are those who legitimately believe God kept them from harm, due to their prayers and others who are believers in God who were in the path and totallly effected.  

As I have said in other post, I believe, the time that God deals with people or groups of people  using natural disasters or large events as judgment are over, for now.  I do believe that in the end days God's wrath will involve such tragic events on a much larger scale but today, I believe, we live in a time of God's Grace.  Grace regarding eternal judgment upon sinfulness of man/woman/humans.  

I do believe that God can, and does, answer specific prayers for protection in the midst of storms or earthquakes but I do not believe God uses such events as judgment upon people today.  I believe many of the answers are better attributed to people's biases and personal beliefs. 

This topic is both sad and pathetic.