Interfaith and Intercultural Marriage

I will say this about that:

The COC arm of assemblage where I attend, takes the following position regarding marriage and divorce:

If you feel your marital situation is acceptable to “whomever” you are free to participate in the rituals of the congregation without fear of being judged.

SideNote:

And they do not have the infernal banging of a piano interfering with a cappella singing

Bless his heart. In my opinion the music minister at Highland is the most talented director of that discipline in the region.. If they are going to make the congregation and TV viewing audience listen to that blasting instrumental racket they should at least treat listeners once a month with out it.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:


You are the master of mis-direction....

Nope. Just a master-baiter.

quote:

Oh, well, we all have a burden to carry -- and, I guess I am their burden

No, you are no burden. That is for sure. You are wrong about many things, but now that they have been clarified, you should have a better understanding of things from my vantage point.
If you would just be HONEST and HUMBLE, there could be some beneficial conversations.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:


thenagel, just be thankful that one wasn't made the mother of your children...then she would have been in your life forever, divorced or not.

Oh i am. every day of my life i thank god for the blessings of my wonderful wife and children, and for the lack there of with that other woman.

Everything happens for a reason. even if we don't undestand the reason for a few decades, it was there.

I love it, divorced and remarried, I knew he was a hypocrite!

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Oh, well, we all have a burden to carry -- and, I guess I am their burden

No, you are no burden. That is for sure. You are wrong about many things, but now that they have been clarified, you should have a better understanding of things from my vantage point.
If you would just be HONEST and HUMBLE, there could be some beneficial conversations.

Hi VP,

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that if I agree with ALL the doctrines of your church -- then we can be Friends and have "beneficial converstations."

As much as I would love for us be Friends and have civil discussions -- I am sorry, I cannot agree with many of the doctrines of your church.

However, I am willing to be Friends and have civil discussions if you are willing. Shall we give it a try?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill,
That is NOT what she is saying. Go back and re-read all the posts from page 3.

If one has a “doctrine” of religious opinions. Should that person not view others with different doctrines as the foe and not take them into your bosom?

I think that would be the logic.

Consider the atheist. Their doctrine insists that other religious are the enemy and should be despised and ridiculed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Oh, well, we all have a burden to carry -- and, I guess I am their burden

No, you are no burden. That is for sure. You are wrong about many things, but now that they have been clarified, you should have a better understanding of things from my vantage point.
If you would just be HONEST and HUMBLE, there could be some beneficial conversations.

Hi VP,

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that if I agree with ALL the doctrines of your church -- then we can be Friends and have "beneficial converstations."

As much as I would love for us be Friends and have civil discussions -- I am sorry, I cannot agree with many of the doctrines of your church.

However, I am willing to be Friends and have civil discussions if you are willing. Shall we give it a try?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

In other words do as Bill and Joy...accept the others transgressions, to hell with what the bible says.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
I'm guessing that he probably doesn't know for sure and finds it painful to contemplate.

Since God forgave David for adultery with Bathsheba and Jesus forgave an adulterous woman, I can only come up with one interpretation for these verses.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10..."Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers--none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. "

I think this verse is referring to those that are doing these things at the time of their death, who have made these things their lifestyle & have not turned from them.

God knows our heart. I don't think there is such a thing as a last minute or last second conversion. There is no sincerity of heart in that. If a person plans on getting right with God, better do it now. Depending on how you die, you may not get a second anyway.

JMHO...y'all decipher those verses however you see fit.

Why don't you tell us again how homosexuals are good to go because the bible says give unto Ceaser...

That has got to be my favorite.

quote:

Originally posted by StarryNight:
I love it, divorced and remarried, I knew he was a hypocrite!

I think Bill has found this site has a database that can be searched for prior postings. I proved him a liar with the use of that just this week. He claimed he never said or accused my of turning him in to the site administration...I retrieved that thread where he did...he continued to lie about it.

I think he is leery of answering b50ms question because he is afraid someone has where he said otherwise.

quote:

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that if I agree with ALL the doctrines of your church -- then we can be Friends and have "beneficial converstations."

I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion. That's not what I said at all.
I said if you could humble yourself and be honest.
Please read carefully what I have written. You consistently put words in my mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that if I agree with ALL the doctrines of your church -- then we can be Friends and have "beneficial converstations."

I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion. That's not what I said at all.
I said if you could humble yourself and be honest. Please read carefully what I have written. You consistently put words in my mouth.

Hi VP,

If I misread you, I apologize.

You wrote: You are wrong about many things, but now that they have been clarified, you should have a better understanding of things from my vantage point. If you would just be HONEST and HUMBLE, there could be some beneficial conversations.

You ask that I "better understand your vantage point." So, reading between the lines, I take this to be your Roman Catholic church doctrines. If this is not what you meant -- please tell me what you did mean.

I am trying very hard to find some common ground with you -- without me accepting the RC church doctrines -- and without you becoming a Baptist. How do we do this?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that if I agree with ALL the doctrines of your church -- then we can be Friends and have "beneficial converstations."

I don't know how you can possibly come to that conclusion. That's not what I said at all.
I said if you could humble yourself and be honest. Please read carefully what I have written. You consistently put words in my mouth.

Hi VP,

If I misread you, I apologize.

You wrote: You are wrong about many things, but now that they have been clarified, you should have a better understanding of things from my vantage point. If you would just be HONEST and HUMBLE, there could be some beneficial conversations.

You ask that I "better understand your vantage point." So, reading between the lines, I take this to be your Roman Catholic church doctrines. If this is not what you meant -- please tell me what you did mean.

I am trying very hard to find some common ground with you -- without me accepting the RC church doctrines -- and without you becoming a Baptist. How do we do this?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Quit lying would be a good start!

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:Consider the atheist. Their doctrine insists that other religious are the enemy and should be despised and ridiculed.

There is no atheist "doctrine".

(btw, my wife and I are of different beliefs about the supernatural and are also of different ethnicities.)

Fantastic A. R.,
Could you give just a little detail?

quote:

You ask that I "better understand your vantage point." So, reading between the lines, I take this to be your Roman Catholic church doctrines. If this is not what you meant -- please tell me what you did mean.

Understand

Accept.

2 very different words with very different meanings. It's just not that hard.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
Fantastic A. R.,
Could you give just a little detail?

Without going into real detail, having different beliefs means obviously agreeing to disagree when it comes to some religiously themed matters but it mostly doesn't come up day to day. We support, respect and learn from each other's diverging choices and viewpoints. We have both freedom of and from religion in our home and we're secure enough not to feel threatened by a difference of opinion. Fortunately for me, she doesn't believe in hell so there's no anguish from her about my soul. Fortunately for her, I think that what she's doing religiously is quite helpful to her in a daily, real-world kind of way. As for being from different races/cultures, it's not a big whoop either. Even less so, actually. In fact, it was never a thing until we noticed others noticing us when first together publicly. Then we acknowledged it to ourselves and moved on. We share the same culture basically anyway, but with some different flavors sometimes. It works for us.

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
The COC arm of assemblage where I attend,

Do you believe that no one will get to Heaven but the COC?

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:Consider the atheist. Their doctrine insists that other religious are the enemy and should be despised and ridiculed.

There is no atheist "doctrine".

Hi Robust,

It would seem that Wikipedia disagrees with you:

Doctrine (Latin: doctrina) is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.

So, if atheists believe ANYTHING -- then they do have a set of doctrines.

They believe God does not exist. That is a doctrine.

They believe hell does not exist. That is a doctrine.

They believe that there is nothing past this mortal life. That is a doctrine.

So, the religion of atheism most certainly has it own set of doctrines. Actually, the religion of atheism can also be closely related to the religion of Nothing which has continually been trying for years to plant churches in Forumland.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

There is no atheist codification of beliefs.
There are no atheist body of teachings or instructions.
There are no atheist taught principles or positions.

There is no atheist doctrine (even using your chosen definition).

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
1. So, if atheists believe ANYTHING -- then they do have a set of doctrines.
2. They believe God does not exist. That is a doctrine.
3. They believe hell does not exist. That is a doctrine.
4. They believe that there is nothing past this mortal life. That is a doctrine.

Again, using your definition:
1. Is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying that all blondes have a shared set of doctrines.
2. The disbelief in the likelihood of gods is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a codification of beliefs.
3. The disbelief in the likelihood of a hell is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a body of teachings or instructions.
4. The disbelief in the likelihood of like after death is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and are NOT taught principles or positions.

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
1. So, if atheists believe ANYTHING -- then they do have a set of doctrines.
2. They believe God does not exist. That is a doctrine.
3. They believe hell does not exist. That is a doctrine.
4. They believe that there is nothing past this mortal life. That is a doctrine.

Again, using your definition:
1. Is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying that all blondes have a shared set of doctrines.
2. The disbelief in the likelihood of gods is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a codification of beliefs.
3. The disbelief in the likelihood of a hell is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a body of teachings or instructions.
4. The disbelief in the likelihood of like after death is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and are NOT taught principles or positions.

Hi Robust,

Actually, there is no such thing as a "disbelief." On any issue -- you either believe it IS true -- or you believe it IS NOT true. Either way -- it is what a person believes.

Deep, my old Fishy Friend, you (?), and all atheists believe devoutly that God does not exist. Notice that it says "you believe" that God does not exist.

Therefore you have a belief system; you have a set of doctrines; you have a religion -- what is the name of your church -- the Church of Nothing?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

There is a difference that bill doesn't seem to grasp.

there is a difference between
"believes there is no god"
and
"doesn't believe there is a god"

one is a denial of, while the other is a lack of belief in.

i do not like broccoli.
i dislike cauliflour.

this means i can eat broccoli, but i don't really enjoy it, but i refuse to eat cauliflour.

Bill is all or nothing and can't comprehend the middle gears.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

You ask that I "better understand your vantage point." So, reading between the lines, I take this to be your Roman Catholic church doctrines. If this is not what you meant -- please tell me what you did mean.

Bill you don't have to agree with someone to see things from their vantage point. Get real, man.

I'm not gay but I do understand and have empathy for their plight for equal treatment. Doesn't even remotly mean I'd consider liking another man's hairy butt.

quote:

Deep, my old Fishy Friend, you (?), and all atheists believe devoutly that God does not exist. Notice that it says "you believe" that God does

I find myself defending atheists more and more here. Weird. Bill the atheists I know do not necessairily "disbeleive" in God. They simply assume He does not exist until sufficient evidence to the contrary is presented.

Saying the atheists have a "belief" is like insisting that I believe in my disbelief of Santa Clause. That's illogical, sir.

Honest question, Bill: Is my disbelief in Santa Clause considered a religion? Will you give an honest answer?

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
1. So, if atheists believe ANYTHING -- then they do have a set of doctrines.
2. They believe God does not exist. That is a doctrine.
3. They believe hell does not exist. That is a doctrine.
4. They believe that there is nothing past this mortal life. That is a doctrine.

Again, using your definition:
1. Is a ridiculous statement. It's like saying that all blondes have a shared set of doctrines.
2. The disbelief in the likelihood of gods is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a codification of beliefs.
3. The disbelief in the likelihood of a hell is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and is NOT a body of teachings or instructions.
4. The disbelief in the likelihood of like after death is not a doctrine. It's a disbelief and are NOT taught principles or positions.

Robust,

Yes atheism is a religion. Atheist are never comfortable with their gonads in a vice. And rely on cheerleaders like your self to convince themselves that the evidence does not show that they are the same goobers as they portray believers.

They have a godhead; (dawkins, hitchens and uhh ,the other one escapes me), inspired manuscripts from their gods, congregations that worship their gods, doctrine ,tithing, elders and deacons, missionaries. Sunday school for kids, posters, sermons, fellowship. tracts, billboards, church status, church splits, disagreements, sin,

Rob I think you are naïve brother/sister. Wake up and smell the ape doo doo.

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
Fantastic A. R.,
Could you give just a little detail?

Without going into real detail, having different beliefs means obviously agreeing to disagree when it comes to some religiously themed matters but it mostly doesn't come up day to day. We support, respect and learn from each other's diverging choices and viewpoints. We have both freedom of and from religion in our home and we're secure enough not to feel threatened by a difference of opinion. Fortunately for me, she doesn't believe in hell so there's no anguish from her about my soul. Fortunately for her, I think that what she's doing religiously is quite helpful to her in a daily, real-world kind of way. As for being from different races/cultures, it's not a big whoop either. Even less so, actually. In fact, it was never a thing until we noticed others noticing us when first together publicly. Then we acknowledged it to ourselves and moved on. We share the same culture basically anyway, but with some different flavors sometimes. It works for us.

I am so glad. It sounds lie you both put the most important thing first, love. Many best wishes.

From what I have read over the years, I would say Sofa hit it.
Atheists have the scientific, methodical approach to religion.
Without evidence of a burning bush, a woman of salt, a river of blood, it's just a nice story.
Perhaps if they had a Polaroid of Moses parting the Red Sea, they would believe.

But, I doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:
There is a difference that bill doesn't seem to grasp.

there is a difference between
"believes there is no god"
and
"doesn't believe there is a god"

one is a denial of, while the other is a lack of belief in.

i do not like broccoli.
i dislike cauliflour.

this means i can eat broccoli, but i don't really enjoy it, but i refuse to eat cauliflour.

Bill is all or nothing and can't comprehend the middle gears.

Well stated. Fortunately, most others on the forum seem have the ability to comprehend simple concepts.

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
Well stated. Fortunately, most others on the forum seem have the ability to comprehend simple concepts.

Hi Robust,

Well, we need to adjust your estimation a wee bit. When you say "most others" -- it would appear that you should restate that to be:

All the atheists plus their Liberal Theology (not all, but some) cheering squad -- plus their vanilla flavored non-believing fans. And, I guess we could realistically number that whole bunch as a "handfull."

In the real world -- a person either believes a fact to be true -- or he believes the fact to be false. But, either way "he believes."

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Robust,

Yes atheism is a religion. Atheist are never comfortable with their gonads in a vice. And rely on cheerleaders like your self to convince themselves that the evidence does not show that they are the same goobers as they portray believers.

They have a godhead; (dawkins, hitchens and uhh ,the other one escapes me), inspired manuscripts from their gods, congregations that worship their gods, doctrine ,tithing, elders and deacons, missionaries. Sunday school for kids, posters, sermons, fellowship. tracts, billboards, church status, church splits, disagreements, sin,

[U]Nobody is comfortable with their gonads in a vice[/U]. lol other than that I have no idea what that's in reference to.

Stating repeatedly that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so. Often, the religious minded cannot fathom the actuality non-religion so everything must therefore be a religion. It's a very limp assertion. One must assume that by Bill and Rramlimnn's skewed standards, a Christian's disbelief in Odin and Ra is a religion. Come on boys, is that all you've got?

And a reader of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, et al. may be an atheist, but one can be an atheist and have never heard of these people. There is no structure or membership to atheism no matter how hard you look. Atheists are people who very generally agree on mostly one thing because they cannot believe in superstitions and mystics. That's it. There are no gods, doctrines, tithings, etc. necessary to be an atheist. Rram/Bill, no matter how often or vociferously you repeat yourselves and your baseless claims, it will not make the untrue, true.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
I am so glad. It sounds lie you both put the most important thing first, love. Many best wishes.

Thank you very much b50m. Many best wishes to you as well!

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
Stating repeatedly that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so.

Hi Robust,

And, stating repeatedly that atheism in NOT a religion does NOT make that so.

So, we fall back to the definition of a religion -- a believe system -- which fits both Christianity and world religions such as atheism.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Bill is all or nothing and can't comprehend the middle gears

That is so true, Nagel.
And the reason I have beating my head against the wall.
But the problem is, he is not "ALL" anything because he evades questions which take him out of his comfort zone, or cast doubt on his feel good theology.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
Well stated. Fortunately, most others on the forum seem have the ability to comprehend simple concepts.

Hi Robust,

Well, we need to adjust your estimation a wee bit. When you say "most others" -- it would appear that you should restate that to be:

All the atheists plus their Liberal Theology (not all, but some) cheering squad -- plus their vanilla flavored non-believing fans. And, I guess we could realistically number that whole bunch as a "handfull."

In the real world -- a person either believes a fact to be true -- or he believes the fact to be false. But, either way "he believes."

You needn't adjust a thing, actually. I made a very simple statement. There's no need try to fool others with basic straw man arguments. Most can see through it immediately and it makes one appear dishonest. If you cannot comprehend it, so be it, but that's too bad. It's clear to me that our peers here can understand even if they disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
Stating repeatedly that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so.

Hi Robust,

And, stating repeatedly that atheism in NOT a religion does NOT make that so.

The originating statement/claim is yours and the burden of proof is squarely yours. You have been refuted every time I've seen you make it, even by using your own select standards.

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
Stating repeatedly that atheism is a religion doesn't make it so.

Hi Robust,

And, stating repeatedly that atheism in NOT a religion does NOT make that so.

The originating statement/claim is yours and the burden of proof is squarely yours. You have been refuted every time I've seen you make it, even by using your own select standards.

A., don't you love how others define atheism? Invariably, they do so to their benefit. Consistently, they denigrate atheism by defining it as a religion, much like their own. The latter is comically ironic, only they cannot see it.

Coin collecting is a hobby. Non-coin collecting is not a hobby. Calling non-coin collecting a hobby is evidence of a closed, narrow, inadequate mind.

Robustus

I know the difference in a clod who constantly labors over atheism as a religious life style ,like the ones here on this forum ,and the honest atheist like one of my best friends.

It could be true. Bro. Bill and I may just be the visionaries you would like to be.

You are not skilled in thought processes like myself and I expect you to be startled at mine and Bro. Bill’s savvy.

Have a cigar.

The best illustration I've seen on this matter: If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color.