I would venture to say that none of us really comprehends, or could, what God is or encompasses. I'm fairly sure that most people, even those religious, so often humanize God and by that I mean define God or view God in human terms such as referring to God in male gender or viewing God as some white haired old wisest of man in the clouds. I doubt many, and it's reasonable to understand, could or would comprehend the Spiritual realm and I'm not trying to sound dogmatic here, but references to Heaven as a physical place with Ivory white and streets of literal Gold. Visions of seeing our loved ones, mother and father and some even their lost pets. I'm not trying to be a naysayer or downer but I am not so confident that those things will happen. Could they? Yes I have no doubt a God supreme and powerful enough to create all that is could establish us and whomever He wills in whatever environment or place He chooses but IF we are moving from a Physical environment to a Spiritual one, a corruptible body to a non-corruptible one then I believe our physical bodies, those bodies that we all recognize and remember, are decayed and a thing of the past and history.
Our future, those whom find favor with God and are taken into a Spiritual realm existence and a Spiritual body, which I believe will happen and a spiritual body that has no human shape, form, gender, or color but rather one that is perfect for an eternal type future where there is no decay and rot that our current fleshly bodies experience. If one accepts that we are created individuals, and created in God's image in both flesh and spirit meaning fleshly physical body created by the union of our earthly parents and a soul/spirit within created by God and placed within and made alive within the fetus at birth we go from spirit/soul into flesh in the birth process. It could be just as simple to say we reverse that process in death in that we pass, spirit/soul, from physical body into spirit/soul, Spiritual existence for our future.
If that is the case then that future Spiritual body/form could very well be totally different from that earthly form we had while in our earthly physical life. That being said I don't know that the new spiritual, perfect, non-corruptible body will be recognizable in the way that our physical bodies are. I'm not saying that we won't see loved ones we knew in the physical lift but that rather than seeing them in the fleshly type body/appearance that we saw them on earth we would just know who they were in their new spiritual form/body. Likewise we would know those whom we never met before but that we knew existed such as past family and those we have only heard about.
I don't claim to know what each of our future existence will be like or how much we will take with us in the form of memories or knowledge as there is nothing that rules out a clean slate for us in the future. All we have that is tangible in this life is our faith and we can have faith about what our future will be but it's just that and we don't have any proof that what each of us envision will actually be what is. The only solace that I take is a faith that whatever follows for those who are faithful and find favor with God will be so far superior and greater than what we experience now that just like God Himself it's not comprehendible for us now to envision what it will be like then. Anything we could comprehend or envision would be tied to this physical world/existence whereas I believe and have faith that our future existence will be one that transcends that and is on a Spiritual level that we, nor science, can comprehend or define. It could even be that in that new existence the physical has absolutely no relevance at all. And also whether that future state is one that happens 100 years, 1000 years, 100,000 years or millions of years in the future for us and those involved it will be, in essence, like blinking our earthly eyes and opening them or happening in an instant of time. Think about it, with eternity (no end, no beginning) as boundaries there literally is no time, no standard of measurement as 1 second and one billion years is, Spiritually speaking, an instant and non-measurable.
Only from a Human perspective do things get complicated and messed up and need definition and contemplated. Spiritually speaking we don't know anything about anything yet.
Talk about getting philosophical.
I guess I should apologize for the complicated question.
Jack Hammer posted:
I guess I should apologize for the complicated question.Apologize? No Way! ... not for the question ... It was a valid/good question. Now apologize for opening it up to an exhaustive looooooooooong response as I made, I can see maybe some validity there but the question was reasonable and no need to apologize for that, also you had no control over how long someone's response would be either so hopefully, no one would fault you on that.
I've heard people comment and say you should talk about anything other than Politics, Religion, and depending on where in the country you live, college football as for the contentious nature of those topics. I used to spend a lot more time in the Religion section of this forum and do contribute, most likely too much, to the Politics forum so at times try and offset the contentious stuff with a post in the Food section or some Miscellaneous addition.
With respect to Religion though I could never change my screen id and disguise myself because before Bill Gray was banned he and I were characteristically predictable for our exhaustive long, wordy, replies and post. Unlike some who have posted though I try and state that my replies, thoughts, and post are my opinion and just that, everyone has opinions. Each person may feel, and believe, dogmatic about what they post and that they have the patient on facts and truth but there are many good people on every side and issue who have adamant feelings and reasons for those feelings and beliefs so we all share our opinions and hopefully the basis or reason which causes us to believe and feel the way we do.
Back to your original question/post, regarding Religion. Yes, there are countless numbers of people who believe so many different things and often it makes you wonder just who is right or why people believe as they do. Truth is that some don't know why they believe what they believe but just do while others believe what they do as a lineage from others around them or historical reasons even. I, personally, don't have a problem with all the diverse beliefs even though we know that some, or many, are necessarily wrong. I believe the important things, with respect to Religion or the positions we accept and take, are:
- We are conscious of the reasons we believe as we do
- We are able to explain and describe why we believe as we do.
- We are able to defend the reason we believe as we do.
- We are OPEN to change and learning or modification of our positions based upon new or changing information.
I believe, with respect to Religion, and maybe other things, there are two categories, at least, of beliefs. DOGMA & Doctrine.
Dogma being unquestionable and unwavering accepted truth/facts that don't, change or alter. God is Singular, God is a Supreme deity, God Created. Dogma are things which we have relinquished to unchangeable beliefs or unwavering acceptance of something as truth.
Doctrine/Doctrines are those beliefs or categories that we may accept or believe but are things which carry a measure of uncertainty. Things like what Heaven is or if there is a Hell. Beliefs about working on Sunday (where Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath). Beliefs about dietary laws or restrictions and other things that are debatable things or topics.
With some, it's a narrow, even wavering, line that divides things that are dogma from doctrinal things. Seeking opinions about what others believe is a good thing as we all learn from those we agree with as well as those that we disagree with as we consider their reasons that they believe as they do, as they challenge us and from that challenge, we either modify or change our beliefs and thinking or we are solidified in that which we have believed or accepted. Conflict can be beneficial as long as we do not allow it to get personal and detrimental. The key, I believe, is respect for everyone's point of view and with respect to things doctrinal in nature, consideration for why another conflicting belief or stance is accepted by another as being the answer or fact. Often times the basis for another's conflicting opinion is something new to us and worthy of consideration or at least challenges us to reinforce why we believe as we do. Other times the basis for their belief is shallow and meaningless or without merit and enables us to share our own beliefs and debate that which we feel is backed up by insufficient or inaccurate. See, so wordy and lengthy a response, maybe you will feel the need to apologize again but maybe it is I that should apologize instead.
I'm just back from two days in Florence, need a minute.
Heaven might be a bigger surprise than people can imagine.
Jack Hammer posted:Talk about opinions, I always have some silly ideas and here's one.God isn't religious to my way of thinking considering he has not a higherbeing to answer to, to follow.The Father said "I AM" and Jesus has said "I AM" marking the highestlevel there is, that is "I AM who AM.
Heaven might be a bigger surprise than people can imagine.
When you think about it I AM a most profound answer. IF the Bible was by man(kind) you could or would expect some answer to it other than the only answer that could be provided and given.
I AM encompasses that which cannot be understood, defined, or comprehended but rather accepted, by faith alone. How Profound!