Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the long running discussion begun by our atheist Friend, Deep, titled "Good Without God" I have a dialogue with Chick in which I wrote, "God gave man 'free will' and told him, 'You can choose to follow Me and live eternally in blissful happiness.  Or, you can choose to deny Me and follow Satan's bad example -- and live eternally in misery.'

Now, for any intelligent person -- given those choices, it would be a no-brainer.  Because God loves all of us -- He has given every single person an easy way to grab the Golden Ring and live happily ever after.  However, God will not make anyone reach for the Golden Ring.  Each person has to individually choose to reach for that Golden Ring -- or to ignore it.

So, Chick, since my response to Deep bothers you -- does that mean that YOU have chosen to be among the tares who will choose to ignore God's Golden Ring, eternal life?  Or, are you smart enough to turn from the world and turn to follow Christ -- and be a Christ Follower, a Christian -- and have eternal live in Christ?

Yes, Chick, you can give me a wise crack answer, a "make my atheist buddies think I am cool" answer -- or you can stop trying to impress those who cannot help you -- and turn to the only One who can help you -- GOD!   The choice is YOURS; for He has given you the "free will" to make your own decision.

However, you only have until that last breath in this mortal body to decide.  Chick, do you KNOW when YOUR last breath will  occur?  Think about it.  For, after that last breath -- there is no second chance.

And, our new (or resurrected) atheist Friend, Frog, jumps into the dialogue with, "Bill, I realize you won't get that this could be remotely possible, but there are several logical fallacies to your reasoning.  If it is truly 'free will' then shouldn't people really get a choice -- instead of having others beat them on the head with the need to do this life the "right" way?"

Frog, my Friend, the fact that God gave all people the gift of "free will" is not negated just because different folks, in different belief  groups, work to sway people toward their particular belief system.   So, it all boils down to which belief system can offer eternal life with God -- and which belief systems cannot.  Personally, I have no doubt that the only belief system which offers this salvation is  Christianity.

Now, why do I believe that Christianity is the only way to an eternity with God?  Mainly because this is what the Bible, God's Full Written Revelation to man, tells us.   Why do I believe the Bible?   Well, first, because it is the only sacred book which gives us fulfilled prophecies -- over 1800 prophecies given and all except those of the End Times fulfilled, as verified in both secular and religious writings.   To me, this 100% accuracy of prophecies validates the authenticity of the Bible as God's Written Word.

And, in the Bible we are told that Jesus Christ is the only WAY to eternal life with God (John 14:6) -- in the Bible we are told that all Scripture, i.e., the Bible, was inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17) -- and, although the Bible was written by 40 men, living in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- it still has the unity of one main theme -- the salvation of mankind (John 3:16).

Yes, the Bible tells us that, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- ALL who believe will receive His "free gift" of eternal  life (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, the Bible is the foundation of our Christian faith.  Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" --  is the foundation stone of the Bible.  If Genesis 1:1 is not true -- then, none of the Bible is true -- and that is why atheists fight tooth and nail to deny the book of Genesis.

Then, John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus  Christ) was God" -- is the foundation stone of our Christian faith.  And, this is the attack zone for all the cult religions -- denying the deity of Jesus Christ.

So, do you see, Frog, how the atheists, secularists, and the cult religions work together in their attempts to destroy Christianity?   But, unfortunate for you, fortunate for we Christians -- Jesus Christ has already won the war.  We are now just in the mop-up skirmishes, working to rescue the wounded souls, and waiting for Him to return to Rapture His church out of this world and leave it all to you atheists for seven years.  After that seven years -- my Friend, either you have turned to follow Him -- or you are in an  eternity of hurt.

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at  least your version of him.  Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some  follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word.  I say again...if there are so many approaches to happiness in some afterlife or  even this one, don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed, or couldn't there be more than one way to live?"

To answer your most important question posed here, ". . .don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed. . .?"

YES.  That is the simplified answer.  Jesus Christ tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, and the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me."    So, since He is the only WAY; all those other groups DO have to be lying, mistaken, or misinformed.

And, that, my Friend, is why Jesus Christ tells all Christian believers to Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, TEACH THEM (Matthew 28:19-20) -- and why He tells us to be His witnesses in all the world (Acts 1:8, Mark 1 6:15) -- because He IS the only Way and He sincerely wants all people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9).

You tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at least your version of him."

That is true.  And they all fall within those groups you described above, ". . .all but one group have to be lying, mistaken,  misinformed. . ."

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word."

Unfortunately, what you say is true -- even within the Christian community.  Far too many Christians have been misled into watering down the Written Word of God for various reasons.  However, the most common reason for this compromise is their attempt to fit God into science -- instead of admitting that when "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- part of that creation was all the sciences and all the laws governing those sciences.  People keep declaring, "Look at what science has now discovered!"   That is wonderful -- science has finally discovered, learned, what God always knew.   God is not a part of science; science is a subset of God's Creation.

And, yes, we have our Liberal Theology Friends who deny that the Bible is the "inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God."

But, the Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

The Bible has one theme -- the salvation of man.  Although Jesus Christ does admonish us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:39) -- the entire Bible is written toward one goal -- the salvation of all who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and be saved eternally.

Yet, our Liberal Theology Friends and our Social Theology Friends want to replace that main theme of "salvation" -- and make the new main theme of the Bible to be "love."   That is not necessary -- for when people have salvation, our faith in Jesus Christ and our love of Jesus Christ -- should lead us to love our neighbor as ourselves.  Works is not the means of salvation; works is the result of a  person's salvation.

So, yes, Frog, many people, even believing Christians will attempt to sacrifice the Written Word of God, the Bible, on the altar of Compromise -- in a mistaken belief this can draw more atheist and other non-believers to God.   Only the Truth can and will draw  people to God.  And, Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission to all believers (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) that we should ALL take this Truth to the whole world.

Next, Frog, you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why?  Why is your interpretation better, and without quoting from the Bible (it's what you base your belief on I get, but we are talking here about why your own version of reality is any better than anyone else's, and you can't use the book that is differently interpreted by billions to say you are the only right person who magically knows how it is supposed to be interpreted) why do you think you are the only one in the world who is completely right?"

Frog, if you were a Mercedes mechanic -- would you refer to the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual when working on a Mercedes?  Or, would you assume that the Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual is in error and you should ignore it?  If Mercedes cannot write a Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual which accurately describes how to repair a Mercedes -- then, who can -- the  local garage mechanic?

Yes, we use the Bible to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- for it has been proven valid in many ways -- the most convincing being proven, fulfilled prophecies.

So, when you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why? -- there is only one answer.  God, in the Bible, tells us that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY.  And, that is good enough for me.

Then, Frog, you throw off all pretense of civility and revert to your atheist training -- if you cannot deny Christianity, then insult the Christians.  You tell me, "Why does everyone else have to be doomed unless they follow you, essentially, since you have your own version of what God meant for man to do?"

 

The serpent in the Garden of Eden used the same tactic on Eve (Genesis 3:1-7), and I am paraphrasing, "Did God really say that?"    And, followers of Satan have been using that same tactic since then to lure the unsuspecting, vulnerable of the world into his lair.


No one is saved by following Bill Gray.  However, those who follow the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, which Bill follows -- are saved.   And, those who study and follow the Written Word of God, the Bible, will find the wisdom, knowledge, and guidance to be Christ Followers.   No, not through or by Bill Gray -- ONLY through Jesus Christ.

And, you continue, "If you don't quote the very book that many don't believe, since it can't be proven for a fact that any particular person wrote it or in what context the information was meant, then upon what does it come down to that yours is the only way to  believe?"

And, if the Mercedes mechanic does not follow what is written in the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual -- there is a very good chance he could make a mistake.  The same is true of those who want to throw out God's User's Manual, the Bible, and do things man's way, or society's way.   The fact that there are many who do not believe the Bible does not testify that it is in error --
only that there are many who put their worldly desires and pleasures above the Word of God -- and, like Sinatra, they try to sing, "I did it my way."

Still, Frog, you continue, "Many read it and pick what they like to live...you seem to do the same, so I am curious.  It sounds like faith to me, and you are as welcome to yours as the rest of us should be to ours."

Unfortunately, that is true, many do cherry pick Scripture in their efforts to make Scripture fit their predetermined theology -- instead of wrapping their theology in the full revelation of God's Word.   Yes, this does happen within the Christian community.

But, first, let's look outside the Christian community.  The atheists and secularists will totally deny the Bible because they deny its Source, God.  And, these poor souls have to deny the Bible -- for, within its pages is proof that their religion of atheism, their Religion of Nothing -- is just that, Nothing.  If a person chooses to believe in Nothing, he/she is worshiping in the religion of atheism.   So, basically, in their world it is either the Bible -- or it is Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al.  And, our atheist Friends have chosen the wrong team and the wrong User's Manual.

And, within the Christian community, there are those who will cherry pick Scripture in an attempt to justify their specific theology.  If a person or a church is to have a true Christian Theology -- it must come from using the entire Bible, every single verse and word.   When one chooses to ignore, remove, or change any part of Scripture to support their theology -- then, they have a false or mistaken theology.

Yes, there are as many theologies in the Christian world as their are bed bugs on a skid row bed.  But, a proper application of the entire Bible can correct those errant theologies -- just as a good pest spray can get rid of the bed bugs.

There is only one way to view the Bible.   It is is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy  Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

Now, does this mean that we take every word of the Bible to be literal?  No.  There a portions of the Bible which are symbolic, and other Scripture passages which use different figures of speech, i.e., metaphors, allegories, hyperbole, etc.  So, how do we know the  difference?

Glad you asked.  When reading the Bible, always begin by reading it literally.  If the shoe fits, or the interpretation, that is your meaning.  If not, then look at a symbolic, metaphorical, or allegorical meaning.

When the Bible speaks using symbolism -- you will find other passages of Scripture which will give you the meaning of that  symbolism.  An example:  In Revelation 1:16 we read, "In His right hand He held seven stars,. . ."

And, in Revelation 1:20 Jesus explains the symbolism, "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Another example:  In Matthew 13:1-9, Jesus teaches the gathered multitude using a parable, i.e., the symbolism of the Sower.   Then, in Matthew 13:18-23, He explains the symbolism of this parable to His disciples.

And, you say, "So if your answer is faith and that we should all have the same ideas of what we should have faith about -- do you know the definition of faith?  From Dictionary.Com:  (1) confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability, (2) belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact, and (3) belief in God or in the doctrines or  teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims."

From a Biblical point of view, you left out half the answer.  If you will look at Ephesians 2:8 you will find it tells us, "For by grace you have been saved through faith . .

 

So, the answer would be -- first, by the grace of God.  What does this mean?  It means that God loves us so much that He, through His grace, through His benevolence, offers to us His mercy, which we do not deserve nor warrant in any way -- except through His love.  So, by the grace of God, we have the unmerited mercy of God.  This means that the executioner was ready to drop the guillotine -- and God stopped the execution to give the lost another chance.  But, that chance, that mercy, that grace, expires when we breathe our last breath in this mortal body if a person continues to deny Him.

Then, the second half -- after we have the unmerited mercy of God -- we know that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all of our  sins -- IF we, by faith believe He is the preexisting Son of God, that He came to pay the debt we cannot pay, that He died on the cross of Calvary to offer His "free gift" of eternal life to everyone of us, that He rose from the dead, i.e., resurrected, and that He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father -- continually interceding for all Christian believers.

So, Frog, put that grace and that faith together -- and, you have the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

Next, you declare, "Sorry, but I don't see anywhere in that definition where one religious group (even more so one person) would be reasonable in demanding that everyone else have faith in his/her viewpoint and expect to be taken seriously since I see nothing but opinion and beliefs in the definition of the word."

That is because you are studying the dictionary -- and not the Written Word of God, the Bible.  True, most of what we find in the dictionaries is accurate -- as far as it goes.  But, would you use a Model T Ford Maintenance Manual in your attempt to repair a high performance Mercedes engine?  Would you look for spiritual discernment and knowledge -- in a dictionary?  Not really.

And, you continue to declare, "I accept that you believe many on the planet are going to hell because they don't agree with each word you say (you will say God says it all, but you are the one telling us about this), but I don't understand why any one person (group) should be the only one qualified to interpret reality, whether someone will go to a place many don't even believe in, or to  judge the quality of another's life or hopes for 'salvation' considering that that are so many viewpoints around that are just as reasonable or perhaps more so."

Frog, if you are walking in the dark and walk over a cliff -- whether you believe there is a cliff or not -- my Friend, you are in deep trouble.  The same applies to your belief or denial of hell.  It is there and one day, you will know that truth.  I just pray it is not after you have walked off the cliff.

You, like most atheists and other non-believers keep declaring that is Bill Gray's word that is being taught.  No, my Friend, whether you deny Him or not, it is God's Written Word, the Bible which is being declared.  Believe it or deny it -- that cliff will still be there.

Frog, you tell me, "So once again, be happy and have your faith if that is your path.  But there are so many other reasons we could state that your premise of having the only right way in this life (is not true) -- that it makes no sense to claim exclusivity in that area."

Yes, you can state that.  But, is it true?  Which book contains the spiritual truths that offer eternal life -- the Bible -- or the books of Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, et al?

The two things that the books of Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, accomplish are:  (1) they make Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, rich, as they ride in their Rolls Royces to the bank, laughing all the way, and (2) these books mislead many vulnerable folks, who may have been seeking the right path, down the slippery slope into hell.   Sorry, there is no "politically correct" way to say that.

And, you continue, "The very idea of one person/group having the ultimate solution seems a bit arrogant to me personally, and as Elephant pointed out, you really do get more flies with honey than shouting about being the only right person with the only right  path."

Yes, it is true, honey does attract more flies.  And, if I were trying to save the flies -- that is what I would use.  However, since my goal is to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with the non-believing world -- I have to lay aside the honey and use a generous portion of the Word, both Living and Written, to assure the possibility of success in bringing just one more lost seeker to  Christ.

If some of my atheist or other non-believing Friends get indigestion because of my dose of Scripture -- I apologize.  But, I will not stop sharing the Word of God just to make our atheist and non-believing Friends more comfortable in their societal norms and in their world religions.

And, finally, Frog, you tell me, "My experience is that no matter how marvelous a message is -- more people will be likely to listen and believe something said respectfully than with name-calling or insults.  I have seen people leave churches many times because they felt browbeaten into a system of beliefs."

And, I have seen many, many people flock to the "Seeker Friendly" churches where the pastor and leaders are afraid to mention hell, sin, and eternal life in a Biblical fashion -- because they do not want to make folks uncomfortable.   Frog, either folks are made uncomfortable in this life because of our sins -- or they will be very uncomfortable in the next life -- because of their sins.

Yes, the "Seeker Friendly" churches may fill many large auditoriums with folks who want to play church and spend Sunday mornings with friends -- without having to feel uncomfortable about what they did last week or what they will do next week.  No, my Friend, a church which does not teach the Bible, all the Bible, including sin and hell -- is not a church, but, instead is a Social Club.

Frog, you say you are new to the Religion Forum.  That may, or may not, be true.  Over the years I have seen far too many forum members who have been banned, or who feel that their current posting name has too much mud on it, or for whatever other reasons or agendas -- have left and come back with a new posting name and hopefully a new persona.  But, usually, their words and writing styles betray them.

However, if you say you have evolved into Frog, I will not argue with you.  As I wrote in another discussion, when I came to the Religion Forum five years ago, our resident atheist, Deep, was partnering with the atheist, Fish.  Now, he appears to be partnering with you.  So, in a way, this proves his theory of evolution.  His partner has evolved from a FISH to a FROG.

But, whether you are truly a new member, or you are an old member wearing a new dress -- you imply that I use name-calling and insults in my dialogues with other forum members.  I ask you to give me even one example of where I have called anyone a name or insulted anyone.

Keep in mind that calling an avowed atheist -- an atheist, is not name calling.  I am just recognizing the dress.

And, telling everyone, including the non-believers, that there are only two eternal destinations -- heaven and hell -- and that every person MUST make a personal choice where he/she will spend eternity; this is not insulting anyone, only sharing the truth.  If the  truth is insulting to you -- maybe you should look within yourself.

To all my other Forum Friends, I apologize for this post being so long.  However, our new (?) Friend, Frog, wrote quite a bit -- and, I do not want to slight any of her comments or questions.  I would not want her to feel that I am insulting her by ignoring any of her comments or questions.  This is the result when we have two long-winded folks writing on the Religion Forum; especially two with such diverse religious beliefs.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1a

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You idiots never catch on. It’s haha funny . I’ve noticed several of you snicker about Bills claim of a large reading audience. It’s not just here to this affected audience but he has a worldwide reading audience through his church ministry. These people are already believers and enjoy watching Bill respond to you fringe lunatics. It’s like a series on TV. His reading audience [me included] outside this forum tune in weekly to watch the monkeys jump around as Bill pulls your tails. You people are just suckers and take the bait hook-line-and-sinker. Who’s the next star? Deep, jenn, adot. Hahahahaha.

Bill’s long post for Sunday readers has just gone out. hahahaha

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the long running discussion begun by our atheist Friend, Deep, titled "Good Without God" I have a dialogue with Chick in which I wrote, "God gave man 'free will' and told him, 'You can choose to follow Me and live eternally in blissful happiness.  Or, you can choose to deny Me and follow Satan's bad example -- and live eternally in misery.'

Now, for any intelligent person -- given those choices, it would be a no-brainer.  Because God loves all of us -- He has given every single person an easy way to grab the Golden Ring and live happily ever after.  However, God will not make anyone reach for the Golden Ring.  Each person has to individually choose to reach for that Golden Ring -- or to ignore it.

So, Chick, since my response to Deep bothers you -- does that mean that YOU have chosen to be among the tares who will choose to ignore God's Golden Ring, eternal life?  Or, are you smart enough to turn from the world and turn to follow Christ -- and be a Christ Follower, a Christian -- and have eternal live in Christ?

Yes, Chick, you can give me a wise crack answer, a "make my atheist buddies think I am cool" answer -- or you can stop trying to impress those who cannot help you -- and turn to the only One who can help you -- GOD!   The choice is YOURS; for He has given you the "free will" to make your own decision.

However, you only have until that last breath in this mortal body to decide.  Chick, do you KNOW when YOUR last breath will  occur?  Think about it.  For, after that last breath -- there is no second chance.

And, our new (or resurrected) atheist Friend, Frog, jumps into the dialogue with, "Bill, I realize you won't get that this could be remotely possible, but there are several logical fallacies to your reasoning.  If it is truly 'free will' then shouldn't people really get a choice -- instead of having others beat them on the head with the need to do this life the "right" way?"

Frog, my Friend, the fact that God gave all people the gift of "free will" is not negated just because different folks, in different belief  groups, work to sway people toward their particular belief system.   So, it all boils down to which belief system can offer eternal life with God -- and which belief systems cannot.  Personally, I have no doubt that the only belief system which offers this salvation is  Christianity.

Now, why do I believe that Christianity is the only way to an eternity with God?  Mainly because this is what the Bible, God's Full Written Revelation to man, tells us.   Why do I believe the Bible?   Well, first, because it is the only sacred book which gives us fulfilled prophecies -- over 1800 prophecies given and all except those of the End Times fulfilled, as verified in both secular and religious writings.   To me, this 100% accuracy of prophecies validates the authenticity of the Bible as God's Written Word.

And, in the Bible we are told that Jesus Christ is the only WAY to eternal life with God (John 14:6) -- in the Bible we are told that all Scripture, i.e., the Bible, was inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17) -- and, although the Bible was written by 40 men, living in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- it still has the unity of one main theme -- the salvation of mankind (John 3:16).

Yes, the Bible tells us that, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- ALL who believe will receive His "free gift" of eternal  life (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, the Bible is the foundation of our Christian faith.  Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" --  is the foundation stone of the Bible.  If Genesis 1:1 is not true -- then, none of the Bible is true -- and that is why atheists fight tooth and nail to deny the book of Genesis.

Then, John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus  Christ) was God" -- is the foundation stone of our Christian faith.  And, this is the attack zone for all the cult religions -- denying the deity of Jesus Christ.

So, do you see, Frog, how the atheists, secularists, and the cult religions work together in their attempts to destroy Christianity?   But, unfortunate for you, fortunate for we Christians -- Jesus Christ has already won the war.  We are now just in the mop-up skirmishes, working to rescue the wounded souls, and waiting for Him to return to Rapture His church out of this world and leave it all to you atheists for seven years.  After that seven years -- my Friend, either you have turned to follow Him -- or you are in an  eternity of hurt.

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at  least your version of him.  Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some  follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word.  I say again...if there are so many approaches to happiness in some afterlife or  even this one, don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed, or couldn't there be more than one way to live?"

To answer your most important question posed here, ". . .don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed. . .?"

YES.  That is the simplified answer.  Jesus Christ tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, and the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me."    So, since He is the only WAY; all those other groups DO have to be lying, mistaken, or misinformed.

And, that, my Friend, is why Jesus Christ tells all Christian believers to Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, TEACH THEM (Matthew 28:19-20) -- and why He tells us to be His witnesses in all the world (Acts 1:8, Mark 1 6:15) -- because He IS the only Way and He sincerely wants all people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9).

You tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at least your version of him."

That is true.  And they all fall within those groups you described above, ". . .all but one group have to be lying, mistaken,  misinformed. . ."

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word."

Unfortunately, what you say is true -- even within the Christian community.  Far too many Christians have been misled into watering down the Written Word of God for various reasons.  However, the most common reason for this compromise is their attempt to fit God into science -- instead of admitting that when "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- part of that creation was all the sciences and all the laws governing those sciences.  People keep declaring, "Look at what science has now discovered!"   That is wonderful -- science has finally discovered, learned, what God always knew.   God is not a part of science; science is a subset of God's Creation.

And, yes, we have our Liberal Theology Friends who deny that the Bible is the "inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God."

But, the Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

The Bible has one theme -- the salvation of man.  Although Jesus Christ does admonish us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:39) -- the entire Bible is written toward one goal -- the salvation of all who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and be saved eternally.

Yet, our Liberal Theology Friends and our Social Theology Friends want to replace that main theme of "salvation" -- and make the new main theme of the Bible to be "love."   That is not necessary -- for when people have salvation, our faith in Jesus Christ and our love of Jesus Christ -- should lead us to love our neighbor as ourselves.  Works is not the means of salvation; works is the result of a  person's salvation.

So, yes, Frog, many people, even believing Christians will attempt to sacrifice the Written Word of God, the Bible, on the altar of Compromise -- in a mistaken belief this can draw more atheist and other non-believers to God.   Only the Truth can and will draw  people to God.  And, Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission to all believers (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) that we should ALL take this Truth to the whole world.

Next, Frog, you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why?  Why is your interpretation better, and without quoting from the Bible (it's what you base your belief on I get, but we are talking here about why your own version of reality is any better than anyone else's, and you can't use the book that is differently interpreted by billions to say you are the only right person who magically knows how it is supposed to be interpreted) why do you think you are the only one in the world who is completely right?"

Frog, if you were a Mercedes mechanic -- would you refer to the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual when working on a Mercedes?  Or, would you assume that the Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual is in error and you should ignore it?  If Mercedes cannot write a Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual which accurately describes how to repair a Mercedes -- then, who can -- the  local garage mechanic?

Yes, we use the Bible to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- for it has been proven valid in many ways -- the most convincing being proven, fulfilled prophecies.

So, when you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why? -- there is only one answer.  God, in the Bible, tells us that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY.  And, that is good enough for me.

Then, Frog, you throw off all pretense of civility and revert to your atheist training -- if you cannot deny Christianity, then insult the Christians.  You tell me, "Why does everyone else have to be doomed unless they follow you, essentially, since you have your own version of what God meant for man to do?"

 

The serpent in the Garden of Eden used the same tactic on Eve (Genesis 3:1-7), and I am paraphrasing, "Did God really say that?"    And, followers of Satan have been using that same tactic since then to lure the unsuspecting, vulnerable of the world into his lair.


No one is saved by following Bill Gray.  However, those who follow the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, which Bill follows -- are saved.   And, those who study and follow the Written Word of God, the Bible, will find the wisdom, knowledge, and guidance to be Christ Followers.   No, not through or by Bill Gray -- ONLY through Jesus Christ.

And, you continue, "If you don't quote the very book that many don't believe, since it can't be proven for a fact that any particular person wrote it or in what context the information was meant, then upon what does it come down to that yours is the only way to  believe?"

And, if the Mercedes mechanic does not follow what is written in the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual -- there is a very good chance he could make a mistake.  The same is true of those who want to throw out God's User's Manual, the Bible, and do things man's way, or society's way.   The fact that there are many who do not believe the Bible does not testify that it is in error --
only that there are many who put their worldly desires and pleasures above the Word of God -- and, like Sinatra, they try to sing, "I did it my way."

Still, Frog, you continue, "Many read it and pick what they like to live...you seem to do the same, so I am curious.  It sounds like faith to me, and you are as welcome to yours as the rest of us should be to ours."

Unfortunately, that is true, many do cherry pick Scripture in their efforts to make Scripture fit their predetermined theology -- instead of wrapping their theology in the full revelation of God's Word.   Yes, this does happen within the Christian community.

But, first, let's look outside the Christian community.  The atheists and secularists will totally deny the Bible because they deny its Source, God.  And, these poor souls have to deny the Bible -- for, within its pages is proof that their religion of atheism, their Religion of Nothing -- is just that, Nothing.  If a person chooses to believe in Nothing, he/she is worshiping in the religion of atheism.   So, basically, in their world it is either the Bible -- or it is Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al.  And, our atheist Friends have chosen the wrong team and the wrong User's Manual.

And, within the Christian community, there are those who will cherry pick Scripture in an attempt to justify their specific theology.  If a person or a church is to have a true Christian Theology -- it must come from using the entire Bible, every single verse and word.   When one chooses to ignore, remove, or change any part of Scripture to support their theology -- then, they have a false or mistaken theology.

Yes, there are as many theologies in the Christian world as their are bed bugs on a skid row bed.  But, a proper application of the entire Bible can correct those errant theologies -- just as a good pest spray can get rid of the bed bugs.

There is only one way to view the Bible.   It is is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy  Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

Now, does this mean that we take every word of the Bible to be literal?  No.  There a portions of the Bible which are symbolic, and other Scripture passages which use different figures of speech, i.e., metaphors, allegories, hyperbole, etc.  So, how do we know the  difference?

Glad you asked.  When reading the Bible, always begin by reading it literally.  If the shoe fits, or the interpretation, that is your meaning.  If not, then look at a symbolic, metaphorical, or allegorical meaning.

When the Bible speaks using symbolism -- you will find other passages of Scripture which will give you the meaning of that  symbolism.  An example:  In Revelation 1:16 we read, "In His right hand He held seven stars,. . ."

And, in Revelation 1:20 Jesus explains the symbolism, "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Another example:  In Matthew 13:1-9, Jesus teaches the gathered multitude using a parable, i.e., the symbolism of the Sower.   Then, in Matthew 13:18-23, He explains the symbolism of this parable to His disciples.

And, you say, "So if your answer is faith and that we should all have the same ideas of what we should have faith about -- do you know the definition of faith?  From Dictionary.Com:  (1) confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability, (2) belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact, and (3) belief in God or in the doctrines or  teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims."

From a Biblical point of view, you left out half the answer.  If you will look at Ephesians 2:8 you will find it tells us, "For by grace you have been saved through faith . .

 

So, the answer would be -- first, by the grace of God.  What does this mean?  It means that God loves us so much that He, through His grace, through His benevolence, offers to us His mercy, which we do not deserve nor warrant in any way -- except through His love.  So, by the grace of God, we have the unmerited mercy of God.  This means that the executioner was ready to drop the guillotine -- and God stopped the execution to give the lost another chance.  But, that chance, that mercy, that grace, expires when we breathe our last breath in this mortal body if a person continues to deny Him.

Then, the second half -- after we have the unmerited mercy of God -- we know that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all of our  sins -- IF we, by faith believe He is the preexisting Son of God, that He came to pay the debt we cannot pay, that He died on the cross of Calvary to offer His "free gift" of eternal life to everyone of us, that He rose from the dead, i.e., resurrected, and that He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father -- continually interceding for all Christian believers.

So, Frog, put that grace and that faith together -- and, you have the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

Next, you declare, "Sorry, but I don't see anywhere in that definition where one religious group (even more so one person) would be reasonable in demanding that everyone else have faith in his/her viewpoint and expect to be taken seriously since I see nothing but opinion and beliefs in the definition of the word."

That is because you are studying the dictionary -- and not the Written Word of God, the Bible.  True, most of what we find in the dictionaries is accurate -- as far as it goes.  But, would you use a Model T Ford Maintenance Manual in your attempt to repair a high performance Mercedes engine?  Would you look for spiritual discernment and knowledge -- in a dictionary?  Not really.

And, you continue to declare, "I accept that you believe many on the planet are going to hell because they don't agree with each word you say (you will say God says it all, but you are the one telling us about this), but I don't understand why any one person (group) should be the only one qualified to interpret reality, whether someone will go to a place many don't even believe in, or to  judge the quality of another's life or hopes for 'salvation' considering that that are so many viewpoints around that are just as reasonable or perhaps more so."

Frog, if you are walking in the dark and walk over a cliff -- whether you believe there is a cliff or not -- my Friend, you are in deep trouble.  The same applies to your belief or denial of hell.  It is there and one day, you will know that truth.  I just pray it is not after you have walked off the cliff.

You, like most atheists and other non-believers keep declaring that is Bill Gray's word that is being taught.  No, my Friend, whether you deny Him or not, it is God's Written Word, the Bible which is being declared.  Believe it or deny it -- that cliff will still be there.

Frog, you tell me, "So once again, be happy and have your faith if that is your path.  But there are so many other reasons we could state that your premise of having the only right way in this life (is not true) -- that it makes no sense to claim exclusivity in that area."

Yes, you can state that.  But, is it true?  Which book contains the spiritual truths that offer eternal life -- the Bible -- or the books of Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, et al?

The two things that the books of Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, accomplish are:  (1) they make Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, rich, as they ride in their Rolls Royces to the bank, laughing all the way, and (2) these books mislead many vulnerable folks, who may have been seeking the right path, down the slippery slope into hell.   Sorry, there is no "politically correct" way to say that.

And, you continue, "The very idea of one person/group having the ultimate solution seems a bit arrogant to me personally, and as Elephant pointed out, you really do get more flies with honey than shouting about being the only right person with the only right  path."

Yes, it is true, honey does attract more flies.  And, if I were trying to save the flies -- that is what I would use.  However, since my goal is to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with the non-believing world -- I have to lay aside the honey and use a generous portion of the Word, both Living and Written, to assure the possibility of success in bringing just one more lost seeker to  Christ.

If some of my atheist or other non-believing Friends get indigestion because of my dose of Scripture -- I apologize.  But, I will not stop sharing the Word of God just to make our atheist and non-believing Friends more comfortable in their societal norms and in their world religions.

And, finally, Frog, you tell me, "My experience is that no matter how marvelous a message is -- more people will be likely to listen and believe something said respectfully than with name-calling or insults.  I have seen people leave churches many times because they felt browbeaten into a system of beliefs."

And, I have seen many, many people flock to the "Seeker Friendly" churches where the pastor and leaders are afraid to mention hell, sin, and eternal life in a Biblical fashion -- because they do not want to make folks uncomfortable.   Frog, either folks are made uncomfortable in this life because of our sins -- or they will be very uncomfortable in the next life -- because of their sins.

Yes, the "Seeker Friendly" churches may fill many large auditoriums with folks who want to play church and spend Sunday mornings with friends -- without having to feel uncomfortable about what they did last week or what they will do next week.  No, my Friend, a church which does not teach the Bible, all the Bible, including sin and hell -- is not a church, but, instead is a Social Club.

Frog, you say you are new to the Religion Forum.  That may, or may not, be true.  Over the years I have seen far too many forum members who have been banned, or who feel that their current posting name has too much mud on it, or for whatever other reasons or agendas -- have left and come back with a new posting name and hopefully a new persona.  But, usually, their words and writing styles betray them.

However, if you say you have evolved into Frog, I will not argue with you.  As I wrote in another discussion, when I came to the Religion Forum five years ago, our resident atheist, Deep, was partnering with the atheist, Fish.  Now, he appears to be partnering with you.  So, in a way, this proves his theory of evolution.  His partner has evolved from a FISH to a FROG.

But, whether you are truly a new member, or you are an old member wearing a new dress -- you imply that I use name-calling and insults in my dialogues with other forum members.  I ask you to give me even one example of where I have called anyone a name or insulted anyone.

Keep in mind that calling an avowed atheist -- an atheist, is not name calling.  I am just recognizing the dress.

And, telling everyone, including the non-believers, that there are only two eternal destinations -- heaven and hell -- and that every person MUST make a personal choice where he/she will spend eternity; this is not insulting anyone, only sharing the truth.  If the  truth is insulting to you -- maybe you should look within yourself.

To all my other Forum Friends, I apologize for this post being so long.  However, our new (?) Friend, Frog, wrote quite a bit -- and, I do not want to slight any of her comments or questions.  I would not want her to feel that I am insulting her by ignoring any of her comments or questions.  This is the result when we have two long-winded folks writing on the Religion Forum; especially two with such diverse religious beliefs.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1a

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ring.

Originally Posted by Magpie:

You idiots never catch on. It’s haha funny . I’ve noticed several of you snicker about Bills claim of a large reading audience. It’s not just here to this affected audience but he has a worldwide reading audience through his church ministry. These people are already believers and enjoy watching Bill respond to you fringe lunatics. It’s like a series on TV. His reading audience [me included] outside this forum tune in weekly to watch the monkeys jump around as Bill pulls your tails. You people are just suckers and take the bait hook-line-and-sinker. Who’s the next star? Deep, jenn, adot. Hahahahaha.

Bill’s long post for Sunday readers has just gone out. hahahaha

Surely, you don't think that we actually READ this stuff. It is more fun to fast scroll down when he uses different colors; otherwise, it is a complete waste of time.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by Magpie:

You idiots never catch on. It’s haha funny . I’ve noticed several of you snicker about Bills claim of a large reading audience. It’s not just here to this affected audience but he has a worldwide reading audience through his church ministry. These people are already believers and enjoy watching Bill respond to you fringe lunatics. It’s like a series on TV. His reading audience [me included] outside this forum tune in weekly to watch the monkeys jump around as Bill pulls your tails. You people are just suckers and take the bait hook-line-and-sinker. Who’s the next star? Deep, jenn, adot. Hahahahaha.

Bill’s long post for Sunday readers has just gone out. hahahaha

Surely, you don't think that we actually READ this stuff. It is more fun to fast scroll down when he uses different colors; otherwise, it is a complete waste of time.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

hey jimbo you tungsten carbide head, he never meant for you to read it. Get it??????????? 

God: Believe in me or else.

Me: I see no evidence

God: I am OMNIPOTENT. You see me everywhere?

Me: Where?

God: THERE

Me: Not seeing it.

God: 2=2=4. See how perfect that is?

Me: Umm, 2+2 would equal 4 if you weren't around

God: Well, you have a point.  Ok, look at the eyes of your child and you will see My works!

Me: Umm, that's biology, sir.  It would happen without You.

God:  Well crap.  Allright, read this book I wrote and you will see my works!

Me: I see nothing but human tragedy, rape, torture, intolerance from angry gods and, admittedly, a few paragraphs on your son who tried to undo the damage you did to your kids.
God: Allright, then look at this immense universe of 70 billion galaxies each filled with hundreds of billions of suns! Who but a Master could create such a spectacle!

Me: Umm, we have a pretty good scientific explanation for that and it does not involve you, sir. 
 God: Well look at ME then!  Who do you thinik you are talking to?
Me: This is just a stupid made-up forum post.  You were created by me in my head just as Your children did thousands of years before they conceived of a single diety.

God: OK, last try, puny human. Either believe in me or I will toss you in the lake of fire!
Me: Go ahead, Mr.Omnipotency!.  Even if you did exist, I'd never get on my knees and worship an evil being like you unless COERCED under force.  So have at it.  I'm waiting to be coerced.

God: . . . . . 

 

Me: Yeah, that's what I thought.

Originally Posted by Magpie:

You idiots never catch on. It’s haha funny . I’ve noticed several of you snicker about Bills claim of a large reading audience. It’s not just here to this affected audience but he has a worldwide reading audience through his church ministry. These people are already believers and enjoy watching Bill respond to you fringe lunatics. It’s like a series on TV. His reading audience [me included] outside this forum tune in weekly to watch the monkeys jump around as Bill pulls your tails. You people are just suckers and take the bait hook-line-and-sinker. Who’s the next star? Deep, jenn, adot. Hahahahaha.

Bill’s long post for Sunday readers has just gone out. hahahaha

***********************************************************************************

From a man that claims he's proud of his Southern upbringing, he's doing everything he can to make the people from the South look like a bunch of idiot rednecks. What does that make Bill? An idiot!

quote:    Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
From a man that claims he's proud of his Southern upbringing, he's doing everything he can to make the people from the South look like a bunch of idiot rednecks.  What does that make Bill?  An idiot! 

Hi Chick,

 

As usual, your perception has me perplexed.  Where do you find anything about Southerners in my post?  Whether you can believe it or not --  people all over the world discuss God, Jesus Christ, Christianity, and the Bible.  Trust me -- it is not just a Southern thang!

 

Or, is it that you are just so desperate to find some issue on which you can attempt to disagree with me -- that you will even make us non-existent issues?    But, whatever makes you happy.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Uno,

 

It will truly be interesting when YOU DO get to have that conversation with God.   Whether you want to believe it -- you will.  But, happily, I can say that I will not be there at that time.  That little episode is reserved for the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and all the seats are reserved for atheists and their fellow non-believers.   However, it would be interesting to see you whimper when the truth does sink in at last.   You will, you know.

 

And, no, Chick and Jennifer -- I do not relish the thought of ANYONE having to go through that judgment and the aftermath.   However, EVERYONE who is standing in that judgment -- CHOSE IT for themselves.

 

You know, the old cutesy saying, "I want to go to hell -- because that is where all my friends will be!"

 

Trust me, in hell there will be no such thing as a friend.  It will be dog-eat-dog -- FOR ETERNITY!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Jimi,

 

Thank you for reposting my original message.  However, given the length of it -- I am not sure it was a good idea -- or that our Forum Friends appreciate you resposting the full message.

 

Maybe one day we can have a class on how to post on the Forum without reposting everything that has ever been posted in the past.   I am not sure of your educational level -- but, regardless, I am sure you will be able to grasp the basics of "proper posting etiquette."  We will try to keep it on your level. 

 

Okay, Chick, here is your opening -- go ahead and declare how hateful and nasty I am being when I suggest that Jimi learn proper posting procedures and etiquette.   I am happy I could give you this small bone.   I hate to see my "best friend" having to dig for bones.   Go on, tell me how unChristian I am being!!  Duh!

 

But, you had better hurry -- or Jennifer will beat you to it!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In the long running discussion begun by our atheist Friend, Deep, titled "Good Without God" I have a dialogue with Chick in which I wrote, "God gave man 'free will' and told him, 'You can choose to follow Me and live eternally in blissful happiness.  Or, you can choose to deny Me and follow Satan's bad example -- and live eternally in misery.'

Now, for any intelligent person -- given those choices, it would be a no-brainer.  Because God loves all of us -- He has given every single person an easy way to grab the Golden Ring and live happily ever after.  However, God will not make anyone reach for the Golden Ring.  Each person has to individually choose to reach for that Golden Ring -- or to ignore it.

So, Chick, since my response to Deep bothers you -- does that mean that YOU have chosen to be among the tares who will choose to ignore God's Golden Ring, eternal life?  Or, are you smart enough to turn from the world and turn to follow Christ -- and be a Christ Follower, a Christian -- and have eternal live in Christ?

Yes, Chick, you can give me a wise crack answer, a "make my atheist buddies think I am cool" answer -- or you can stop trying to impress those who cannot help you -- and turn to the only One who can help you -- GOD!   The choice is YOURS; for He has given you the "free will" to make your own decision.

However, you only have until that last breath in this mortal body to decide.  Chick, do you KNOW when YOUR last breath will  occur?  Think about it.  For, after that last breath -- there is no second chance.

And, our new (or resurrected) atheist Friend, Frog, jumps into the dialogue with, "Bill, I realize you won't get that this could be remotely possible, but there are several logical fallacies to your reasoning.  If it is truly 'free will' then shouldn't people really get a choice -- instead of having others beat them on the head with the need to do this life the "right" way?"

Frog, my Friend, the fact that God gave all people the gift of "free will" is not negated just because different folks, in different belief  groups, work to sway people toward their particular belief system.   So, it all boils down to which belief system can offer eternal life with God -- and which belief systems cannot.  Personally, I have no doubt that the only belief system which offers this salvation is  Christianity.

Now, why do I believe that Christianity is the only way to an eternity with God?  Mainly because this is what the Bible, God's Full Written Revelation to man, tells us.   Why do I believe the Bible?   Well, first, because it is the only sacred book which gives us fulfilled prophecies -- over 1800 prophecies given and all except those of the End Times fulfilled, as verified in both secular and religious writings.   To me, this 100% accuracy of prophecies validates the authenticity of the Bible as God's Written Word.

And, in the Bible we are told that Jesus Christ is the only WAY to eternal life with God (John 14:6) -- in the Bible we are told that all Scripture, i.e., the Bible, was inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16-17) -- and, although the Bible was written by 40 men, living in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years -- it still has the unity of one main theme -- the salvation of mankind (John 3:16).

Yes, the Bible tells us that, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- ALL who believe will receive His "free gift" of eternal  life (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, the Bible is the foundation of our Christian faith.  Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" --  is the foundation stone of the Bible.  If Genesis 1:1 is not true -- then, none of the Bible is true -- and that is why atheists fight tooth and nail to deny the book of Genesis.

Then, John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus  Christ) was God" -- is the foundation stone of our Christian faith.  And, this is the attack zone for all the cult religions -- denying the deity of Jesus Christ.

So, do you see, Frog, how the atheists, secularists, and the cult religions work together in their attempts to destroy Christianity?   But, unfortunate for you, fortunate for we Christians -- Jesus Christ has already won the war.  We are now just in the mop-up skirmishes, working to rescue the wounded souls, and waiting for Him to return to Rapture His church out of this world and leave it all to you atheists for seven years.  After that seven years -- my Friend, either you have turned to follow Him -- or you are in an  eternity of hurt.

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at  least your version of him.  Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some  follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word.  I say again...if there are so many approaches to happiness in some afterlife or  even this one, don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed, or couldn't there be more than one way to live?"

To answer your most important question posed here, ". . .don't all but one group have to be lying, mistaken, misinformed. . .?"

YES.  That is the simplified answer.  Jesus Christ tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the WAY, and the Truth, and the Life; NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me."    So, since He is the only WAY; all those other groups DO have to be lying, mistaken, or misinformed.

And, that, my Friend, is why Jesus Christ tells all Christian believers to Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, TEACH THEM (Matthew 28:19-20) -- and why He tells us to be His witnesses in all the world (Acts 1:8, Mark 1 6:15) -- because He IS the only Way and He sincerely wants all people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9).

You tell me, "Another fallacy is just blaring...many in the world don't believe there is a heaven or hell, Satan, God, or at least your version of him."

That is true.  And they all fall within those groups you described above, ". . .all but one group have to be lying, mistaken,  misinformed. . ."

Then, Frog, you tell me, "Many have indeed read parts or all of the Bible and drawn totally different conclusions from it, and some follow it as a guide and not literal to the last word."

Unfortunately, what you say is true -- even within the Christian community.  Far too many Christians have been misled into watering down the Written Word of God for various reasons.  However, the most common reason for this compromise is their attempt to fit God into science -- instead of admitting that when "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" -- part of that creation was all the sciences and all the laws governing those sciences.  People keep declaring, "Look at what science has now discovered!"   That is wonderful -- science has finally discovered, learned, what God always knew.   God is not a part of science; science is a subset of God's Creation.

And, yes, we have our Liberal Theology Friends who deny that the Bible is the "inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God."

But, the Bible is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

The Bible has one theme -- the salvation of man.  Although Jesus Christ does admonish us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matthew 22:39) -- the entire Bible is written toward one goal -- the salvation of all who will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and be saved eternally.

Yet, our Liberal Theology Friends and our Social Theology Friends want to replace that main theme of "salvation" -- and make the new main theme of the Bible to be "love."   That is not necessary -- for when people have salvation, our faith in Jesus Christ and our love of Jesus Christ -- should lead us to love our neighbor as ourselves.  Works is not the means of salvation; works is the result of a  person's salvation.

So, yes, Frog, many people, even believing Christians will attempt to sacrifice the Written Word of God, the Bible, on the altar of Compromise -- in a mistaken belief this can draw more atheist and other non-believers to God.   Only the Truth can and will draw  people to God.  And, Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission to all believers (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) that we should ALL take this Truth to the whole world.

Next, Frog, you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why?  Why is your interpretation better, and without quoting from the Bible (it's what you base your belief on I get, but we are talking here about why your own version of reality is any better than anyone else's, and you can't use the book that is differently interpreted by billions to say you are the only right person who magically knows how it is supposed to be interpreted) why do you think you are the only one in the world who is completely right?"

Frog, if you were a Mercedes mechanic -- would you refer to the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual when working on a Mercedes?  Or, would you assume that the Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual is in error and you should ignore it?  If Mercedes cannot write a Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual which accurately describes how to repair a Mercedes -- then, who can -- the  local garage mechanic?

Yes, we use the Bible to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- for it has been proven valid in many ways -- the most convincing being proven, fulfilled prophecies.

So, when you ask, "And if yours IS the only way...then why? -- there is only one answer.  God, in the Bible, tells us that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY.  And, that is good enough for me.

Then, Frog, you throw off all pretense of civility and revert to your atheist training -- if you cannot deny Christianity, then insult the Christians.  You tell me, "Why does everyone else have to be doomed unless they follow you, essentially, since you have your own version of what God meant for man to do?"

 

The serpent in the Garden of Eden used the same tactic on Eve (Genesis 3:1-7), and I am paraphrasing, "Did God really say that?"    And, followers of Satan have been using that same tactic since then to lure the unsuspecting, vulnerable of the world into his lair.


No one is saved by following Bill Gray.  However, those who follow the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, which Bill follows -- are saved.   And, those who study and follow the Written Word of God, the Bible, will find the wisdom, knowledge, and guidance to be Christ Followers.   No, not through or by Bill Gray -- ONLY through Jesus Christ.

And, you continue, "If you don't quote the very book that many don't believe, since it can't be proven for a fact that any particular person wrote it or in what context the information was meant, then upon what does it come down to that yours is the only way to  believe?"

And, if the Mercedes mechanic does not follow what is written in the Mercedes Manufacturer's Maintenance Manual -- there is a very good chance he could make a mistake.  The same is true of those who want to throw out God's User's Manual, the Bible, and do things man's way, or society's way.   The fact that there are many who do not believe the Bible does not testify that it is in error --
only that there are many who put their worldly desires and pleasures above the Word of God -- and, like Sinatra, they try to sing, "I did it my way."

Still, Frog, you continue, "Many read it and pick what they like to live...you seem to do the same, so I am curious.  It sounds like faith to me, and you are as welcome to yours as the rest of us should be to ours."

Unfortunately, that is true, many do cherry pick Scripture in their efforts to make Scripture fit their predetermined theology -- instead of wrapping their theology in the full revelation of God's Word.   Yes, this does happen within the Christian community.

But, first, let's look outside the Christian community.  The atheists and secularists will totally deny the Bible because they deny its Source, God.  And, these poor souls have to deny the Bible -- for, within its pages is proof that their religion of atheism, their Religion of Nothing -- is just that, Nothing.  If a person chooses to believe in Nothing, he/she is worshiping in the religion of atheism.   So, basically, in their world it is either the Bible -- or it is Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al.  And, our atheist Friends have chosen the wrong team and the wrong User's Manual.

And, within the Christian community, there are those who will cherry pick Scripture in an attempt to justify their specific theology.  If a person or a church is to have a true Christian Theology -- it must come from using the entire Bible, every single verse and word.   When one chooses to ignore, remove, or change any part of Scripture to support their theology -- then, they have a false or mistaken theology.

Yes, there are as many theologies in the Christian world as their are bed bugs on a skid row bed.  But, a proper application of the entire Bible can correct those errant theologies -- just as a good pest spray can get rid of the bed bugs.

There is only one way to view the Bible.   It is is the Holy Spirit inspired (men wrote what God put in their hearts and minds), Holy  Spirit inerrant (God does not make mistakes), literal (God says what He means, and He means what He says) Written Word of God.

Now, does this mean that we take every word of the Bible to be literal?  No.  There a portions of the Bible which are symbolic, and other Scripture passages which use different figures of speech, i.e., metaphors, allegories, hyperbole, etc.  So, how do we know the  difference?

Glad you asked.  When reading the Bible, always begin by reading it literally.  If the shoe fits, or the interpretation, that is your meaning.  If not, then look at a symbolic, metaphorical, or allegorical meaning.

When the Bible speaks using symbolism -- you will find other passages of Scripture which will give you the meaning of that  symbolism.  An example:  In Revelation 1:16 we read, "In His right hand He held seven stars,. . ."

And, in Revelation 1:20 Jesus explains the symbolism, "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Another example:  In Matthew 13:1-9, Jesus teaches the gathered multitude using a parable, i.e., the symbolism of the Sower.   Then, in Matthew 13:18-23, He explains the symbolism of this parable to His disciples.

And, you say, "So if your answer is faith and that we should all have the same ideas of what we should have faith about -- do you know the definition of faith?  From Dictionary.Com:  (1) confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability, (2) belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact, and (3) belief in God or in the doctrines or  teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims."

From a Biblical point of view, you left out half the answer.  If you will look at Ephesians 2:8 you will find it tells us, "For by grace you have been saved through faith . .

 

So, the answer would be -- first, by the grace of God.  What does this mean?  It means that God loves us so much that He, through His grace, through His benevolence, offers to us His mercy, which we do not deserve nor warrant in any way -- except through His love.  So, by the grace of God, we have the unmerited mercy of God.  This means that the executioner was ready to drop the guillotine -- and God stopped the execution to give the lost another chance.  But, that chance, that mercy, that grace, expires when we breathe our last breath in this mortal body if a person continues to deny Him.

Then, the second half -- after we have the unmerited mercy of God -- we know that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for all of our  sins -- IF we, by faith believe He is the preexisting Son of God, that He came to pay the debt we cannot pay, that He died on the cross of Calvary to offer His "free gift" of eternal life to everyone of us, that He rose from the dead, i.e., resurrected, and that He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father -- continually interceding for all Christian believers.

So, Frog, put that grace and that faith together -- and, you have the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

Next, you declare, "Sorry, but I don't see anywhere in that definition where one religious group (even more so one person) would be reasonable in demanding that everyone else have faith in his/her viewpoint and expect to be taken seriously since I see nothing but opinion and beliefs in the definition of the word."

That is because you are studying the dictionary -- and not the Written Word of God, the Bible.  True, most of what we find in the dictionaries is accurate -- as far as it goes.  But, would you use a Model T Ford Maintenance Manual in your attempt to repair a high performance Mercedes engine?  Would you look for spiritual discernment and knowledge -- in a dictionary?  Not really.

And, you continue to declare, "I accept that you believe many on the planet are going to hell because they don't agree with each word you say (you will say God says it all, but you are the one telling us about this), but I don't understand why any one person (group) should be the only one qualified to interpret reality, whether someone will go to a place many don't even believe in, or to  judge the quality of another's life or hopes for 'salvation' considering that that are so many viewpoints around that are just as reasonable or perhaps more so."

Frog, if you are walking in the dark and walk over a cliff -- whether you believe there is a cliff or not -- my Friend, you are in deep trouble.  The same applies to your belief or denial of hell.  It is there and one day, you will know that truth.  I just pray it is not after you have walked off the cliff.

You, like most atheists and other non-believers keep declaring that is Bill Gray's word that is being taught.  No, my Friend, whether you deny Him or not, it is God's Written Word, the Bible which is being declared.  Believe it or deny it -- that cliff will still be there.

Frog, you tell me, "So once again, be happy and have your faith if that is your path.  But there are so many other reasons we could state that your premise of having the only right way in this life (is not true) -- that it makes no sense to claim exclusivity in that area."

Yes, you can state that.  But, is it true?  Which book contains the spiritual truths that offer eternal life -- the Bible -- or the books of Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, et al?

The two things that the books of Darwin, Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, accomplish are:  (1) they make Dawkins, Hitchens, et al, rich, as they ride in their Rolls Royces to the bank, laughing all the way, and (2) these books mislead many vulnerable folks, who may have been seeking the right path, down the slippery slope into hell.   Sorry, there is no "politically correct" way to say that.

And, you continue, "The very idea of one person/group having the ultimate solution seems a bit arrogant to me personally, and as Elephant pointed out, you really do get more flies with honey than shouting about being the only right person with the only right  path."

Yes, it is true, honey does attract more flies.  And, if I were trying to save the flies -- that is what I would use.  However, since my goal is to share the Word of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, with the non-believing world -- I have to lay aside the honey and use a generous portion of the Word, both Living and Written, to assure the possibility of success in bringing just one more lost seeker to  Christ.

If some of my atheist or other non-believing Friends get indigestion because of my dose of Scripture -- I apologize.  But, I will not stop sharing the Word of God just to make our atheist and non-believing Friends more comfortable in their societal norms and in their world religions.

And, finally, Frog, you tell me, "My experience is that no matter how marvelous a message is -- more people will be likely to listen and believe something said respectfully than with name-calling or insults.  I have seen people leave churches many times because they felt browbeaten into a system of beliefs."

And, I have seen many, many people flock to the "Seeker Friendly" churches where the pastor and leaders are afraid to mention hell, sin, and eternal life in a Biblical fashion -- because they do not want to make folks uncomfortable.   Frog, either folks are made uncomfortable in this life because of our sins -- or they will be very uncomfortable in the next life -- because of their sins.

Yes, the "Seeker Friendly" churches may fill many large auditoriums with folks who want to play church and spend Sunday mornings with friends -- without having to feel uncomfortable about what they did last week or what they will do next week.  No, my Friend, a church which does not teach the Bible, all the Bible, including sin and hell -- is not a church, but, instead is a Social Club.

Frog, you say you are new to the Religion Forum.  That may, or may not, be true.  Over the years I have seen far too many forum members who have been banned, or who feel that their current posting name has too much mud on it, or for whatever other reasons or agendas -- have left and come back with a new posting name and hopefully a new persona.  But, usually, their words and writing styles betray them.

However, if you say you have evolved into Frog, I will not argue with you.  As I wrote in another discussion, when I came to the Religion Forum five years ago, our resident atheist, Deep, was partnering with the atheist, Fish.  Now, he appears to be partnering with you.  So, in a way, this proves his theory of evolution.  His partner has evolved from a FISH to a FROG.

But, whether you are truly a new member, or you are an old member wearing a new dress -- you imply that I use name-calling and insults in my dialogues with other forum members.  I ask you to give me even one example of where I have called anyone a name or insulted anyone.

Keep in mind that calling an avowed atheist -- an atheist, is not name calling.  I am just recognizing the dress.

And, telling everyone, including the non-believers, that there are only two eternal destinations -- heaven and hell -- and that every person MUST make a personal choice where he/she will spend eternity; this is not insulting anyone, only sharing the truth.  If the  truth is insulting to you -- maybe you should look within yourself.

To all my other Forum Friends, I apologize for this post being so long.  However, our new (?) Friend, Frog, wrote quite a bit -- and, I do not want to slight any of her comments or questions.  I would not want her to feel that I am insulting her by ignoring any of her comments or questions.  This is the result when we have two long-winded folks writing on the Religion Forum; especially two with such diverse religious beliefs.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1a

-------------------------------

Big post!!

 

.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Chick,

As usual, your perception has me perplexed.  Where do you find anything about Southerners in my post?  Whether you can believe it or not --  people all over the world discuss God, Jesus Christ, Christianity, and the Bible.  Trust me -- it is not just a Southern thang!

Or, is it that you are just so desperate to find some issue on which you can attempt to disagree with me -- that you will even make us non-existent issues?    But, whatever makes you happy.

Bill

Good grief, Bill! Did you read Magpie's post at all that I quoted???? My post was in reply to what Magpie said, which was "he (which is you) has a worldwide reading audience through his church ministry. These people are already believers and enjoy watching Bill respond to you fringe lunatics. It’s like a series on TV. His reading audience [me included] outside this forum tune in weekly to watch the monkeys jump around as Bill pulls your tails. You people are just suckers and take the bait hook-line-and-sinker".


We all know that you use this forum & all of us in your writings to your "world wide reading audience" & that you do everything you can to make us look like stupid ass rednecks. WE are in the South,  this forum is in the South, do you get it yet?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jimi,

Okay, Chick, here is your opening -- go ahead and declare how hateful and nasty I am being when I suggest that Jimi learn proper posting procedures and etiquette.   I am happy I could give you this small bone.   I hate to see my "best friend" having to dig for bones.   Go on, tell me how unChristian I am being!!  Duh!

Bill

Duh??? Why should I declare how hateful & nasty you are?? You did that all on your own. But I am surprised that you admitted it. You're a good little doggie, now eat your bone.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Uno,

 

It will truly be interesting when YOU DO get to have that conversation with God.   Whether you want to believe it -- you will.  But, happily, I can say that I will not be there at that time.  That little episode is reserved for the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and all the seats are reserved for atheists and their fellow non-believers.   However, it would be interesting to see you whimper when the truth does sink in at last.   You will, you know.

 

I am terrified, Bill.  Absolutely terrified.

 

God?  Jesus? If you see this?  Eat me you evil monsters.  I wouldn't pee on either of you if you were on fire.

quote:    Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Uno,

 

It will truly be interesting when YOU DO get to have that conversation with God.   Whether you want to believe it -- you will.  But, happily, I can say that I will not be there at that time.  That little episode is reserved for the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) and all the seats are reserved for atheists and their fellow non-believers.   However, it would be interesting to see you whimper when the truth does sink in at last.   You will, you know.

I am terrified, Bill.  Absolutely terrified.   God?  Jesus? If you see this?  Eat me you evil monsters.  I wouldn't pee on either of you if you were on fire. 

Hi Uno,

 

For a long time I thought you might be our old atheist Friend, Fish -- but, as confused and deceitful as Fish was -- I do not believe the even he is this SICK.   Sorry, my Friend, there is no "politically correct" way of saying this.   But, from this comment, I get the feeling that YOU would attend a funeral just to spit on someone's dead loved one.  All I can say is that I TRULY feel sorry for you.

 

God help you, for your leader, Satan, surely will not,

 

Bill

quote:    Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Big post!!  

.
Hi Vic,

 

And, YOU reposted the entire message!   Why?  To encourage others to read it?   To aggravate other Forum members because you do not like them?  Or, because you do not know how to respond to a post without reposting the whole thing?    What was your point, Vic?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Uno,

 

For a long time I thought you might be our old atheist Friend, Fish -- but, as confused and deceitful as Fish was -- I do not believe the even he is this SICK.   Sorry, my Friend, there is no "politically correct" way of saying this.   But, from this comment, I get the feeling that YOU would attend a funeral just to spit on someone's dead loved one.  All I can say is that I TRULY feel sorry for you.

 

God help you, for your leader, Satan, surely will not,

 

 

Oh, I left out Satan.  He can eat me, too.  If he exists, may he take me to hell right this very moment in order to prove to the world that he exists.  Bring it own Satan, Yahweh and Big J!  I got something for ya!

Whoops.  Still here! 

Here's the deal, Bill: I have zero respect for your imaginary friends, You're in the wrong place if you are looking for anyone to respect any of the hatred that spews from your posts or the gods you pretend inspired them.  Don't like it?  Have the mods do the tasks that your god's apparently cannot do.  

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:    Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Big post!!  

.
Hi Vic,

 

And, YOU reposted the entire message!   Why?  

Bill

*****************************************************

I don't know what your post said but my guess would be that he quoted it in case you were to go back & delete something. You have done that before when someone called you on something you couldn't explain.

And one note of explanation to anyone else that runs acrss this post:  Atheists don't like to be told that someone's invisble friend is going to torture them for eternity.  There is something inherantly evil about telling someone they are going to hell as Bill did.  

No, we don't beleive for a second that hell exists (exceot for the crap we take here on earth).  But you people need to understand that, to us, you are sicking your imaginary friend on us in order to cause immeasurale harm.  That is WRONG on so many levels.  


It also illustrates why some of us seem to be a little p i s s y towards you. You good Christians are blatantly capable of supporting a regime run by a ruthless dictator who designed this supposed system of punishment and salvation.  Not just support this evil monster but actually PRAISE him.

And *I'm* the one who lacks morals because I call BS on that?  Really?

The concept of hell exposes a very serious character flaw in you believers.  It even reminds me that just under my skin is a uncivilized monster that used to support the same regime. I hope I'll never let that monster out again but according to some, I will do so on my death bed.

So, want to p i  s s an atheist off really good?  Tell them they are going to hell,  Works every time. 

I just love the atheist 'tolerant' attitude. LOL

 

So if a Christian says another Christian will go to Hell, and they do that a lot, and they actually believe that it exists, and nobody gets mad because both know that it's just anger and not meant literally, it's OK.

 

BUT, if a Christian tells an atheist they are going to Hell, a place they don't believe in, ruled by a demon they don't believe in, in opposition to a God they don't believe in, in anger and not meant literally, that is an insult.

 

OK, got ya.

BUT, if a Christian tells an atheist they are going to Hell, a place they don't believe in, ruled by a demon they don't believe in, in opposition to a God they don't believe in, in anger and not meant literally, that is an insult

 

*********************************************************************************************************************

 

 It's not an insult to me. I think it's funny that some christians get so bent out of shape that they resort to telling you you're going to hell. It's like I told PA, you might as well tell me that santa put me on his naughty list. That's about the effect it has on me. Now I'm not sure what you mean by "in anger and not meant literally" because I do believe those angry christians that tell someone they're going to hell love to think about atheists and people that don't believe like they do, burning there. I look at it like this, "you're going to hell" is like the race card. It's dragged out when they're losing the debate, discussion, or whatever you want to call it and it's about as worn out.

So, want to p i  s s an atheist off really good?  Tell them they are going to hell,  Works every time. Unob

 

It's not an insult to me........  I look at it like this, "you're going to hell" is like the race card. It's dragged out when they're losing the debate, discussion, or whatever you want to call it and it's about as worn out.  Jenn



So you an Unob disagree.  How about that?  All atheists are not alike.  Now if i could just convince some people that not all religious folks are alike, we have a winner.


And I agree with your statement. It's just thrown out when losing an argument.

Hi B50,

You quote Uno, "So, want to (tick) an atheist off really good?  Tell them they are going to hell,  Works every time. Unob"

And, you quote Jennifer, "It's not an insult to me........  I look at it like this, 'you're going to hell' is like the race card.  It's dragged out when they're losing the debate, discussion, or whatever you want to call it and it's about as worn out.  Jenn"

Then, you tell Jennifer, "So you and Unob disagree.  How about that?  All atheists are not alike.  Now if I could just convince some people that not all religious folks are alike, we have a winner."

So far, okay.  But, then, you agree with Jennifer when you write, "And I agree with your statement.  It's just thrown out when losing an argument."

While I agree that we Christians should not just run around telling everyone they are going to hell; I believe very strongly that all Christians should be willing to make other believers and non-believers AWARE of the existence of hell.   And, we should make our non-believing Friends AWARE that by denying God -- they are choosing an eternity in hell for themselves.   

No, Bill Gray, B50, nor any other Christian sends anyone to hell.  No, God does not send anyone to hell.

Every single person who spends eternity in hell -- HAS condemned himself/herself to an eternity in hell.   He/she has NO ONE to blame, but themselves.

Are we Christians wrong in telling folks about hell?  NO!  We would be doing them a big disservice if we do not tell them that hell is real.   And, we would be doing them a great disservice if we do not tell them that EVERYONE will live eternally, that everyone is immortal -- and that the only two eternal destinations available to ALL PEOPLE are heaven and hell.

Every single person MUST choose for himself/herself -- HEAVEN or HELL?  And, once a person dies -- that decision is irreversible.

So, to all my non-believing Friends -- TODAY, right now, would be the best time to make that choice.

 

Why?  Because NONE of us knows if the next breath will be our last breath.  


Why gamble on something so eternally important?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bil

A prayer for unoi:

Dear God being aware of your promise to destroy the wicked and regarding one unoi who has without any remorse blasphemed, I pray that you will not decide in haste what brand of punishment you will mete out to him. While the flood was sufficient and hell would be worse I know you will come up with something ****ing. He has dared you on the forum and made vulgar remarks at you. I suggest putting him as Bro Bill’s charge with no freedoms atall.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi B50,
While I agree that we Christians should not just run around telling everyone they are going to hell; I believe very strongly that all Christians should be willing to make other believers and non-believers AWARE of the existence of hell.  
Why?  Because NONE of us knows if the next breath will be our last breath. 

Why gamble on something so eternally important?
Bil

**************************************************************************************

You agree, but you run around to every topic, constantly telling us we are going to hell?!? 

Ok, you can stop now.....you have made us aware that you believe in the existence of hell.

Why are you gambling on something so eternally important? You better get outta that sandbox, Bill, & get your head out of the sand.

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
You agree, but you run around to every topic, constantly telling us we are going to hell?!?  Ok, you can stop now.....you have made us aware that you believe in the existence of hell.   Why are you gambling on something so eternally important?  You better get outta that sandbox, Bill, & get your head out of the sand.

Hi Chick,

 

Please show me ONE post where I have said that a person is going to hell.  I have said that those who choose to not follow Jesus Christ, those who, through their own God given "free will" choose to deny God -- have condemned themselves to hell

 

I cannot tell anyone they are going to hell.  But, I can tell you that a person can choose to send himself/herself to hell -- by choosing to die while still denying God.

 

My Friend, when a person cares enough to warn the blind person that he/she is walking toward a cliff -- that is caring, that is love.  If the person did not care -- he could just stand back and smile while the blind person walked over the cliff to his/her doom.  But, a person who cares -- WILL warn the blind person of the cliff.

 

Christian believers see the spiritually blind atheists, secularists, and vanilla-flavored non-believers walking toward the eternal cliff of destruction -- and we warn them.

 

I say that is an act of love.   You say it is an act of hatred.  Which is it really?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
You agree, but you run around to every topic, constantly telling us we are going to hell?!?  Ok, you can stop now.....you have made us aware that you believe in the existence of hell.   Why are you gambling on something so eternally important?  You better get outta that sandbox, Bill, & get your head out of the sand.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

I cannot tell anyone they are going to hell. 

 

Christian believers see the spiritually blind atheists, secularists, and vanilla-flavored non-believers walking toward the eternal cliff of destruction -- and we warn them.

I say that is an act of love.   You say it is an act of hatred.  Which is it really?

Bill

Yes, you have.....many times, myself included!

You warn them with judgment, ridicule, & hate. That person walking toward the cliff would run from you toward the cliff. There are Christian's on this forum that would warn them with compassion/love, & a concerned heart. As I've said before, you turn more people ON THIS FORUM away from Christ than toward Him.

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Yes, you have.....many times, myself included!   You warn them with judgment, ridicule, & hate.  That person walking toward the cliff would run from you toward the cliff.  There are Christian's on this forum that would warn them with compassion/love, & a concerned heart.  As I've said before, you turn more people ON THIS FORUM away from Christ than toward Him.


Hi Chick,

 

It is easy to say, "Yes, you have.....many times, myself included!

 

It is easy to resolve this misunderstanding -- SHOW US!   Show us one example of me telling you or anyone they are going to hell.  I have written that those who die while still denying God will go to hell.  But, that is not me telling a person they ARE going to hell -- it is telling me them that their chosen lifestyle can send them to hell.  

 

NO ONE has to go to hell.  Everyone can avoid hell.   But, it is that individual's personal choice.

 

If you are living that chosen lifestyle which will send a person to hell -- that is not me sending you or anyone to hell.  That is the person living a life which will send him/her to hell.

 

So,  you declare, "Yes, you have.....many times, myself included."

 

SHOW US!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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