Is Mary The Mother Of God?

Bill Gray, you say that Mary and the saints cant be prayed to because they are dead. Does that mean that you do not believe in everlasting life? If you do believe in everlasting life how can you claim that jesus' closest family and friends are dead?

So - you're saying that in heaven we all become mindless, groveling zombies?
our only desire will be to worship God?

Then i'll pass.
i don't believe you. i believe you've bought the lies and have added to them. you'd make pilate proud.
you tell us your version of what we must believe, and when we point out the mistakes you wash your hands of us.

i also reject the idea that we are all wicked and sinful, were born that way, and will always be that way, because of what adam and eve did.

you haven't answered my question about that yet.

god is all knowing.
so he knew they would disobey him and eat the fruit of the tree.
so why did he put the tree in the garden?

if this is true he set them up to fail form the word go, and because of this we are all sinful and wicked?

if that were true, then God deserves nothing but our scorn and contempt.
happily, i don't believe it's true, because i think the bible is corrupted, twisted, and filled with misinformation and lies.

kinda like you, really.

So Step Up, Bill Gray.
defend your bible.

if god is all knowing, all powerful...
why did He plant the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, when he KNEW beforehand that they would break the rules and eat of it?

or are you incapable of a reasonable response?

quote:

Originally posted by tcf531:
Bill Gray, you say that Mary and the saints cant be prayed to because they are dead. Does that mean that you do not believe in everlasting life? If you do believe in everlasting life how can you claim that jesus' closest family and friends are dead?

Hi TCF,

I realize this requires a wee bit of reading, i.e., more that ten words - but, since you are asking a question I am assuming you want an answer. However, here is where some of the burden falls upon you.

If you will go to my previous post -- and read past the name, i.e., actually read the post which you are presuming to be responding to -- you WILL find the answer to your question. I promise.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

i was actually replying to this sentence:
the second reason the Roman Catholic

intercessory prayer is not valid -- is that the people to whom you are praying have been dead for hundreds or thousands of years. They cannot pray for anyone.

that statement implies no afterlife, no eternal salvation. that statement says more about your REAL core beliefs than any i have read from you before. no matter how you twist those words afterwards, those were what you meant.

Nagel,
It's not all BG'S Fault. His Bible is abridged and when
incomplete hard to talk from

quote:

If Mary were the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven -- don't you suppose at least one verse in the Bible would have mentioned her and such an important event as her death, rapture, or "assumption"?

There were scriptures about Mary that never made it into the canon of the Bible because the men who put the Bible together did not hold women to high esteem. Sad really, since Jesus did. Of course, those are the scriptures that those men with free will left out.

Even more astonishing is the Koran has many verses about Mary.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/MARYKRAN.HTM

To confirm the extraordinary value of the person of Mary, the fact that to her, alone among creatures, and to her Son, is attributed a nature exempt from all sin, is sufficient. We know that the Islamic religion ignores the concept of original sin; it attributes to man, however, a natural defectibility which makes him impure and imperfect from birth. Nevertheless, in a famous Hadith attributed to the Prophet, it is affirmed that: "Every child is touched by the devil as soon as he is born and this contact makes him cry. Excepted are Mary and her Son". From this Hadith and from verses 35-37 of Sura III, Moslem commentators have deduced and affirmed the principle of Mary's original purity. God, in fact, according to the Koranic text, granted the wish of Anna who consecrated to him Mary, about to be born, and the One to whom she would give birth (III, 37). God predestined Mary and purified her, raising her above all women (III, 45).

" you do believe in everlasting life how can you claim that jesus' closest family and friends are dead"

I didn't read BG's post, but I suspect it was the same old stuff about Mary being dead, and unable to hear prayers.
This struck me profoundly. Does BG not believe in eternal life with Jesus?
WHat?!?
And I will pose a question- where is Mary's supposed death and burial mentioned in the bible? Jesus would not let the stain of death touch her, thus she was assumed into Heaven.

Jesus, if he existed, lived 2000 years ago.

He's dead.

Dead as Rutherford B. Hayes. That's totally dead.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:

quote:

Originally posted Bill Gray:
If Mary were the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven -- don't you suppose at least one verse in the Bible would have mentioned her and such an important event as her death, rapture, or "assumption"?

There were scriptures about Mary that never made it into the canon of the Bible because the men who put the Bible together did not hold women to high esteem. Sad really, since Jesus did. Of course, those are the scriptures that those men with free will left out.

Even more astonishing is the Koran has many verses about Mary.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/MARYKRAN.HTM

To confirm the extraordinary value of the person of Mary, the fact that to her, alone among creatures, and to her Son, is attributed a nature exempt from all sin, is sufficient. We know that the Islamic religion ignores the concept of original sin; it attributes to man, however, a natural defectibility which makes him impure and imperfect from birth. Nevertheless, in a famous Hadith attributed to the Prophet, it is affirmed that: "Every child is touched by the devil as soon as he is born and this contact makes him cry. Excepted are Mary and her Son". From this Hadith and from verses 35-37 of Sura III, Moslem commentators have deduced and affirmed the principle of Mary's original purity. God, in fact, according to the Koranic text, granted the wish of Anna who consecrated to him Mary, about to be born, and the One to whom she would give birth (III, 37). God predestined Mary and purified her, raising her above all women (III, 45).

Hi B50,

Sorry, but your example of the Qur'an as proof that Mary is the Mother of God fell flat. In the religion of Islam -- Jesus is consider only a man, not God, not deity -- only a gifted teacher.

So, if you use the Qur'an for proof -- that is absolute proof that Mary is NOT Mother of God -- for, to them, Jesus is NOT God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

bill are you a servant of God or of satin??
We would like to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
No, I honestly, sincerely do not have any hate for the Roman Catholic church nor for any Roman Catholic believers. I have people very dear to me who are Roman Catholic -- and I surely do not hate them. I love them, personally and spiritually.
Bill

Do you beat them over the head telling them how wrong they are like you have VP?

quote:

Originally posted by semiannualchick:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
No, I honestly, sincerely do not have any hate for the Roman Catholic church nor for any Roman Catholic believers. I have people very dear to me who are Roman Catholic -- and I surely do not hate them. I love them, personally and spiritually.

Do you beat them over the head telling them how wrong they are like you have VP?

Hi Chick,

No, I love them and pray for them -- as I do my Protestant loved ones. We do not discuss the Roman Catholic faith. However, if he/she asks me the same questions that VP asks -- I will give the same answers I give VP. As I have told VP a number of times; I am not here to knock her RC beliefs. However if she stands them in front of me -- I have to address them.

By the way, one of my Roman Catholic loved ones is a member of this Forum -- but, so far has not posted a response to VP or to me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by themax:
bill are you a servant of God or of satin??
We would like to know.

WHAT IS A SERVANT OF "SATIN"? - IS THAT ANYTHING LIKE BE A SERVANT OF "SILK"?

SATAN, is he your god Bill???

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi B50,

Sorry, but your example of the Qur'an as proof that Mary is the Mother of God fell flat. In the religion of Islam -- Jesus is consider only a man, not God, not deity -- only a gifted teacher.

So, if you use the Qur'an for proof -- that is absolute proof that Mary is NOT Mother of God -- for, to them, Jesus is NOT God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Actually, if you read above that you saw where I said there were scriptures about Mary that never made it into the Bible. The Koran reference was just more of showing how Christianity and Islam are alike.

OK, for the heck of it Bill.

If Mary was just some run of the mill no good little nothing and God choosing her didn't make her in any way special, then why didn't God just use a prostitute for Jesus' vessel?

I mean, you make it sound like ANY woman who had the rights parts could be God's Mother so why not someone who had plenty of experience?

Why not just poof Jesus onto the earth at 30 if his upbringing was not in any way special?

Why bother with it at all?

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi B50,

Sorry, but your example of the Qur'an as proof that Mary is the Mother of God fell flat. In the religion of Islam -- Jesus is consider only a man, not God, not deity -- only a gifted teacher.

So, if you use the Qur'an for proof -- that is absolute proof that Mary is NOT Mother of God -- for, to them, Jesus is NOT God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Actually, if you read above that you saw where I said there were scriptures about Mary that never made it into the Bible. The Koran reference was just more of showing how Christianity and Islam are alike.

Hi B50,

No, there is no Scripture which is not included in the Bible. However, there are many books which were rejected and not canonized.

God inspired 40 men, living in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years to write His Bible -- and given that diversity -- the Bible has one main theme: salvation for mankind.

If God is big enough to to do that -- why would He drop the ball when it came to choosing the books of the Canon, i.e., the books to be in His Bible? And, why would He drop the ball when it came to translating and copying His Bible?

My God is big enough to handle all of that -- without breaking a sweat. Isn't yours?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

If Mary was just some run of the mill no good little nothing and God choosing her didn't make her in any way special, then why didn't God just use a prostitute for Jesus' vessel?

In fact, the angel, Gabriel said (paraphrasing)
Dont be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. THE LORD IS WITH YOU.
Now, I don't know how many women yall have met that have angels visit them to tell them they are Blessed, and have found favour with God.
She was special just doesn't cut it- all Nations shall call her Blessed....
Quite frankly, I am bored of this discussion, because anyone who understands the Holy Trinity will reasonably deduce that Mary is the Mother of God= she gave birth to him.
Last time I checked, giving birth generally means you are a Mother.
Anyway, I'm not here to push my beliefs. I believe that extra Blessings come from Marian Devotion (NOT WORSHP) but I do not say that they are necessary for Christian life. But heck, the more people, especially Holy ones interceding for me- I'll gladly accept.
So I'm not pushing Marian Devotion on anyone- thats up to each individual, as are all these matters. its not a "must do". but I will stand up for the Blessed Mother when she is not giving her fair shake.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
God inspired 40 men, living in diverse geographical locations, over a period of 1600 years to write His Bible -- and given that diversity -- the Bible has one main theme: salvation for mankind.

If God is big enough to to do that -- why would He drop the ball when it came to choosing the books of the Canon, i.e., the books to be in His Bible? And, why would He drop the ball when it came to translating and copying His Bible?

He wouldn't. but since he didn't have anything to do with the bible, he's not to blame for the mistakes made.

in the king james i grew up with one line read -

' go forth, be fruitful and replenish the earth.'

they were the first people. the earth was and always had been empty until god plonked them down. so how could they ' replenish' anything. to replenish means to again fill something which was once full but is now empty.

an error in translation cause it do read ' replenish' instead of 'fill up'.

in hte king james i grew up with, one line said -

'thou shalt no kill'

and this one line has cause a world of trouble over the years, only to find out it was supposed to have read ' though shalt not murder'
which is a whole different kettle of fish.

so.. too quick examples off the top of my head to show that god didn't oversee the translating and copying of the bible... and if he didn't over see that, why would we believe he was in charge of the people that selected what was to be included and what was to be ignored?

i think, perhaps, if we had access to all of the books the council of nicea were looking at, if we could see and read ALL of the writings, perhaps we'd have the real whole story, and it'd make a lot more sense.

perhaps if the powers that be, through out the ages, had just left it alone and hadn't meddled and tryed to decide what they felt we and was not worthy for us to read, all the questions that i have, and evne the ones that Billy Joe and Jank have would have been answered, and there'd be no athiests, no disention, no arguing and no confusion.
Maybe.

or maybe it would just have added even more confusion.

but we'll never know, because a bunch of meddling old busybodies thought they knew what was best for us instead of letting us decide for ourselves.
so once again, we see that there is nothing that god gives us that cannot be twisted by the hands of man.

Hi B50,

Those are great questions! You ask me, "OK, for the heck of it Bill. If Mary was just some run of the mill no good little nothing and God choosing her didn't make her in any way special, then why didn't God just use a prostitute for Jesus' vessel? I mean, you make it sound like ANY woman who had the rights parts could be God's Mother so why not someone who had plenty of experience?"

In the Old Testament the sheep or dove to be sacrificed -- had to be without blemish -- for it was a precursor to the coming Perfect Lamb of God who would be sacrificed "once for all." In the same way, the woman through whom the human nature of God, Jesus Christ, was to be born must be without blemish. Mary was a very special young woman -- strong in her faith, a devout, Godly young virgin woman. This is why she was chosen.

Yet, we do see a prostitute in the genealogy of Jesus Christ, Rahab -- and we see a Gentile in His genealogy, Ruth. However, the vessel, the womb, through which He was to be born had to be like those sheep, without blemish. That was Mary. It could be no other way.

Yet, Mary was human in all ways. She had a sin nature, like all descendants of Adam. She was born of a sexual union between her mother and father, like all mortals. And, after she gave birth to Jesus Christ, she had a number of other children. Yes, until Christ was born -- she was a virgin. Afterwards, she had other children, at least three sons who are named in the Bible.

Mary was very special; Mary was very blessed; and Mary was very mortal. And, today, she is like billions of other saints -- in heaven in her spirit body, waiting to get her immortal body at the Rapture.

Now this is a good question, "Why not just poof Jesus onto the earth at 30 if his upbringing was not in any way special? Why bother with it at all?"

That is a valid question; for Adam and Eve were created as mature adults -- why not Jesus Christ?

Yet, no one said His childhood was not special. He attended the Jewish Synagogue schools like all Jewish boys. I am sure He played and did things with His siblings. He obviously had great knowledge which came from God the Father; for, at twelve, He could debate the Jewish rabbis in the temple.

Yes, in some ways His childhood was normal; in other ways, His childhood was exceptional. And, I have no doubt that Mary was a great mother and her parents great grandparents to Jesus. Joseph, too, was a good father, for he taught Jesus his carpentry trade. So, His childhood was normal -- and His childhood was special. He had become like us in all ways -- except He had no sin nature as we, and His mother and his family, have sin natures.

Hebrews 2:14-18, "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted."

Since you and I were born as infants and grew through childhood, into young adulthood, and then as full adult -- tasting all the trials and tribulations along the way -- for Him to be our High Priest, He had to experience all that we experience. The only thing He did not experience is sin. Otherwise, He suffered and had trials just like you and me. This is why He had to be born as an infant -- and not brought into our world as an adult.

Then, He died for you and for me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
In fact, the angel, Gabriel said (paraphrasing) Dont be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. THE LORD IS WITH YOU. Now, I don't know how many women y'all have met that have angels visit them to tell them they are Blessed, and have found favour with God. She was special just doesn't cut it- all Nations shall call her Blessed....

Quite frankly, I am bored of this discussion, because anyone who understands the Holy Trinity will reasonably deduce that Mary is the Mother of God = she gave birth to him. Last time I checked, giving birth generally means you are a Mother. Anyway, I'm not here to push my beliefs. I believe that extra Blessings come from Marian Devotion (NOT WORSHIP) but I do not say that they are necessary for Christian life. But heck, the more people, especially Holy ones interceding for me- I'll gladly accept. So I'm not pushing Marian Devotion on anyone- that's up to each individual, as are all these matters. its not a "must do". but I will stand up for the Blessed Mother when she is not giving her fair shake.

Hi VP,

Yes, all nations do call Mary blessed -- and there is no doubt she was and is very blessed. But, being blessed does not make one the Mother of God.

She did NOT give birth to God -- for God is preexisting. God had no birth -- God had no beginning -- God will have no ending.

She gave birth to the Human Nature of Jesus Christ -- who was born, a beginning -- and who died, an ending. God has no beginning and no death, for God cannot die.

Jesus Christ took on the body of a human so that He could suffer and die for our sins, to offer us atonement. For only a Perfect Sacrifice could satisfy the Perfect Justice of God. Jesus DIED for you and for me. Then, He rose from the dead -- in His immortal, glorified body with His full divinity and ascended to sit at the right hand of God the Father.

In Matthew 24, the disciples ask Jesus when when the End Times will be, and He tells them, in Matthew 24:36, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Now, why is it that Jesus Christ, God the Son, did not know all that God the Father knew? Because when He was born into His human body to be our High Priest -- He lay aside His divine nature and took on His human nature. Mary is mother to that human nature -- but, she is NOT the Mother of God -- for God was never born nor created, nor did He have a beginning, nor does He have a mother.

Face it, VP, Mary was a very special, a very blessed woman -- but, she was just that -- a mortal woman in all ways.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Because when He was born into His human body to be our High Priest -- He lay aside His divine nature and took on His human nature

SO HOW DID HE PERFORM MIRACLES? WALK ON WATER? FEED THE THOUSANDS? GIVE SIGHT TO THE BLIND MAN? STAND UP AND WALK...ETC ETC...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HE HAD A LITTLE SOMETHING IN HIM, BESIDES A FULLY HUMAN NATURE.

ugh. this is what i get for taking him off ignore for an hour or so...
shoulda stuck with my initial decision.
/shrug. What can I say? I'm a libra.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Because when He was born into His human body to be our High Priest -- He lay aside His divine nature and took on His human nature

SO HOW DID HE PERFORM MIRACLES? WALK ON WATER? FEED THE THOUSANDS? GIVE SIGHT TO THE BLIND MAN? STAND UP AND WALK...ETC ETC...
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HE HAD A LITTLE SOMETHING IN HIM, BESIDES A FULLY HUMAN NATURE.

Hi VP,

Yes, He was still fully God and fully Man -- yet, He lay aside His divine nature to be born as our High Priest. That is why He tells us in Matthew 24:36, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Yes, He did miracles, He turned water into wine, He healed the blind, He raised the dead, etc. But, so did His disciples heal and raise the dead, in His name.

Mary was the mother of the Human Nature of Jesus -- NOT His deity. God is preexisting. How can a God who is preexisting have a mother?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Well Bill, as I see it, you have a problem.
According to your interpretation:

Mary gave birth to a 'not divine' half of Jesus. (Skip that part about the Three Wise Men and the Star in the sky)

She raised a 'not divine' child who suddenly became divine around 28 or so, guessing here, when He began performing miracles.

When did Jesus gain his powers if he didn't have them at birth?

If He did have them at birth, then Mary gave birth to a divine child Jesus.

And if you believe in the Trinity, then one third of that Trinity had a human mother.

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
Well Bill, as I see it, you have a problem.
According to your interpretation: Mary gave birth to a 'not divine' half of Jesus. (Skip that part about the Three Wise Men and the Star in the sky) She raised a 'not divine' child who suddenly became divine around 28 or so, guessing here, when He began performing miracles. When did Jesus gain his powers if he didn't have them at birth? If He did have them at birth, then Mary gave birth to a divine child Jesus.

And if you believe in the Trinity, then one third of that Trinity had a human mother.

Hi B50,

No, the Human Nature of the Son had a human mother. Yes, Jesus was always fully God and fully Man. Yet, Mary did not give birth to the God Nature of Jesus, only the Human Nature of Jesus -- that which could be born and could die.

God cannot be born nor can God die -- so, Mary did NOT give birth to God. How can anyone give birth to One who is preexisting, who is eternal?

B50, I realize you are upset because I told you that your New Age and Wiccan religions are not compatible with being a Chrisitan -- but, truth is truth -- whether it is about false religions or about false teachings about God having a mother.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, Your mother didn't give birth to your soul, God did. Your problem is the
Immaclate Conception. Jesus didn't pass through the birth canal. God,s son
is God. So he did something only God could do, after all it's his son.

quote:

B50, I realize you are upset because I told you that your New Age and Wiccan religions are not compatible with being a Chrisitan -- but, truth is truth -- whether it is about false religions or about false teachings about God having a mother.

BILL, I have told you three times I made that up. Do you read all the posts in a thread or just bits and pieces?


So Jesus was always fully God and fully Man. Mary gave birth to the part that could die. Mary gave birth to the Jesus crucified on the cross. Mary took down and clothed the child she gave birth to. Mary buried her child. Mary's child arose on the third day to ascend into heaven. Mary's child.

quote:

Your problem is the
Immaclate Conception.

The Immaculate Conception actually refers to the conception of MARY in her mother's womb. She was conceived without sin, so that she may be the perfect sinless vessel to be the Mother of Jesus, thus, the Mother of God.
Lots of people understand the Immaculate conception to be the conception of Jesus,but in fact it's actually Mary's conception.
(Holy Mary, conceived without sin, pray for those who have recourse to thee..)

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Your problem is the
Immaclate Conception.

The Immaculate Conception actually refers to the conception of MARY in her mother's womb. She was conceived without sin, so that she may be the perfect sinless vessel to be the Mother of Jesus, thus, the Mother of God.
Lots of people understand the Immaculate conception to be the conception of Jesus,but in fact it's actually Mary's conception.
(Holy Mary, conceived without sin, pray for those who have recourse to thee..)

Oh veep. just HAD to mention that didn't you?

you know it, i know it, but now we have to listen to thebill explain for hours why it's wrong.

oh, sorry Nagel... I'll do better tomorrow. Promise.

Meh.. it's ok.

we haven't seen his misguided take on that, so at least it'll be something new instead of the same thing he always says.

Luke 1:41-45

The Holy Ghost told Mary she is the Mother of God through Elizabeth.

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Luke 1:41-45: The Holy Ghost told Mary she is the Mother of God through Elizabeth.

Hi Child,

You are, of course, referring to Luke 1:43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?

Yes, Jesus Christ is Lord, He is fully God and fully Man. Yet, when He came to earth to be our propitiation, our High Priest (Hebrews 2:17), He lay aside His divine nature and took on His Human Nature. This is why He tells us in Matthew 24:36 that even the Son does not know the day or hour - only the Father alone knows.

God cannot be born; God cannot die. Yet, Jesus Christ, in His Human Nature did both. Therefore, Mary was the mother of His Human Nature and NOT the Mother of God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Nagel,
Bill can't escape this one. I have forgotten about that verse: (Thank you Gifted, for reminding us...)
Mary visits Elizabeth, and she says (paraphrasing here) How can it be that the MOTHER OF MY LORD has come to me?!

So, if the bible is the literal word of God, it's a no-brainer that Mary is the Mother of God.
geesh. this is getting tiresome.

But he will, tho..

he'll quote something irrelevent and say it proves his point, and he'll start posting it little pointless cartoons again.

YOU know the deal, I know the deal, but bill is so determined that he owns the one and only Truth that he doesn't even listen anymore.

why should be bother listening to other people? he already thinks he has the final answer.
poor misguided old tool.

quote:

why should be bother listening to other people?

I daresay he is not here to listen to anyone- he is here to preach. I highly doubt that he feels he can learn anything from anyone here.
He lacks the one thing that allows (the rest) of us to discuss, then change our minds, consider other options, agree, disagree, all in friendship. That, my friend, is humility. (coupled with honesty)
He thinks he is already righteous and holy, so what could he learn from us "morons". lol.
We know the truth about Mary, so I guess thats all that matters. Right? I wouldn't want to have to answer to God one day, and say I denied His Mother.

Luke 1:43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?

He skipped right over the verse, repeating his same answer.

Well, I'll still stick with Mary is the Mother of Jesus. If she did not give birth to Him, we would all be unable to be forgiven for sins.

Thanks Mary.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Bill, Your mother didn't give birth to your soul, God did. Your problem is the Immaculate Conception. Jesus didn't pass through the birth canal. God's son is God. So he did something only God could do, after all it's his son..

The Immaculate Conception actually refers to the conception of MARY in her mother's womb. She was conceived without sin, so that she may be the perfect sinless vessel to be the Mother of Jesus, thus, the Mother of God. Lots of people understand the Immaculate conception to be the conception of Jesus, but in fact it's actually Mary's conception. (Holy Mary, conceived without sin, pray for those who have recourse to thee..)

Hi VP and Child,

Boy, you both are really going off into the Twilight Zone -- or at least into the Vatican Zone.

Child, please show us ANYWHERE in the Bible that we are told that Jesus Christ was not born through the birth canal like ALL human children.

Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in ALL things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."

And, after she gave birth to Jesus Christ -- she had other children: In Matthew 12:47, Mark 3:32, and Luke 8:20, we read, "Behold, your mother and your brothers are outside looking for You."

In Matthew 13:55-56 we have, "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"

So, according to the Bible -- Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ just as any child in born -- and then she gave birth to other sons and daughters.

And, VP, please show us ANYWHERE in the Bible that tells us that Mary was born without sin. The Bible tells us, "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). The last I checked -- ALL means ALL. The only person, according to the Bible who is perfect and without sin is Jesus Christ. Are you trying to elevate Mary to the same level of divinity as Jesus Christ?

This is why the Roman Catholics MUST have their Traditions and Catechisms -- for none of this is found in the Bible.

VP, you quote, "Holy Mary, conceived without sin, pray for those who have recourse to thee." Can you give us a Scripture verse where we can find this in the Bible?

Ladies, if you want to believe these false doctrines, that is your choice. However, NONE of it is Biblical.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:
Luke 1:43 "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? He skipped right over the verse, repeating his same answer. Well, I'll still stick with Mary is the Mother of Jesus. If she did not give birth to Him, we would all be unable to be forgiven for sins. Thanks Mary.

No, B50,

If you will go back and read my last post -- you will see that I did indeed address that specific Scripture verse.

You really should read the posts -- BEFORE you respond to them.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill