Hi to my Forum Friends,
The dialogue below began in the discussion I began titled, "Willie, Millie, And The Rapture!" -- but, because I want to share this with everyone, I have decided to break it out and start a new discussion.
In that previous discussion, my Friend, Jan, told me, '"Ok lets see if I qualify to be "enlightened" on the subject of adding to the KJV of the bible. I was only born once. I am not a Christian believer. I am not a serial killer. (but wouldn't your religion expect you to teach even those that are the worst kind of sinners?)
I spent 17 horrible years in organized religion. Even though you didn't ask I will tell you it was of the COC flavor.
Now, can you tell me the big secret of where you got THIS fairy tale? I know it did not come from your favorite fairy tale book because I have read it and its not there."
Since the discussion was "Willie, Millie, And The Rapture!" -- I presume you are asking about the Rapture. But, first let me address some of your other issues. You tell us that you attended a Church of Christ for seventeen years; but, never became a Christian believer, never sought a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Believe it or not, I do understand. While you spent seventeen unpleasant years because of your reaction to this church; I spent almost forty years running from God -- because of what happened to me in a similar church in Sheffield. When I was about twelve, a traveling Revival Preacher laid a heavy trip on me -- and I ran from God until I was fifty.
But, praise God, when I was fifty, I met a true man of God, a pastor who exuded the love of God, not the wrath of God -- and who was not trying to accumulate numbers to support a Revival score. This man was Pastor Sam Lacanienta -- and, I, and many others who have been saved through his ministry -- thank God for him.
Let's stop for a moment and respond to the rash of giggling and twittering I know will be coming from our Friends in the cheap seats. This is for Deep and our other atheist/secularist Friends -- for the handful of those who wear a Christian hat; but, obviously have not found one that fit yet -- and for all of our non-believing Friends who literally wet their pants every time someone tells them, "Jesus loves you!"
The first thing, when they can stop their giggling and twittering, that they will write is: "Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle!" -- implying that I write one thing and live another.
Now that we are past that anticipated intelligent reply -- let me respond by saying, "Just because we Christian believers tell you that you must be born again to be save -- just because we tell you that you have to choose between an eternity in heaven and an eternity in hell -- just because we tell you that, by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ; plus NOTHING else, you are saved -- you say we are spewing 'wrath' upon you." No, my Friends, we are, out of Christian love, sincerely trying to point you toward the path of eternal happiness and joy.
Now, Jan, with that out of the way; let's continue with answering your questions regarding the Rapture.
You tell me that I have been '"adding to the KJV of the bible." Even though I normally use the NASB in my personal Bible studies and in my writings; I will use the King James Bible in this discussion so that we are speaking "apples and apples." Jan, I would not try to add to God's Written Word; for I am not worthy to do this. I can only share what I find in His Written Word, the Bible.
Then, you tell me, '"Now can you tell me the big secret of where you got THIS fairy tale? I know it did not come from your favorite fairy tale book because I have read it and its not there."
First, for the sake of our readers, you are referring to the Rapture. And, you tell us that you have read this "fairy tale book." It would seem that we have been reading different books -- for the Bible is far from being a "fairy tale book." But, possibly, that is why you could never find anything it it -- you had your eyes closed while reading. Here I am speaking, not of your physical eyes -- but, of your spiritual eyes.
Once again, like you, before I was a Christian believer, I tried many times to read the Bible and could not make any sense of it at all. For many years, I traveled on business. I lived a big part of those years in hotel rooms; so, I know what loneliness is and how depressing it can be to a person.
In this loneliness and depression, I often took the Gideon's Bible out of the bedside night stand drawer -- and tried to read it. So many times I had heard of people who had found peace and comfort reading this book. Yet, all I found was frustration and confusion. Why? Because my spiritual eyes were closed. I knew that God and Jesus Christ were in there -- I just did not know how to find them.
My Friend, possibly you have the same "spiritual eyes blindness" problem I had all those years. The way around this is to sincerely pray and ask God to open your eyes, your spiritual eyes.
Now, back to your question of the Rapture. Is it in the King James Bible? Yes!
In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (kjv), we read, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
The phrase "shall be caught up" in Greek is "harpazo" and in Strong's Concordance we are told this means: (1) to seize, carry off by force, (2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly, (3) to snatch out or away.
The Bible was originally written in three languages: Hebrew (most of the OT), Aramaic (part of the OT), and Greek (the NT). In 382 A.D., Pope Damasus I commissioned Jerome of Stridon, northern Croatia, to translate the Bible into Latin.
The Latin Vulgate was translated from the original languages into Latin by Jerome in the time period 382 - 405 A.D. For over a millennium, it was the preferred translation for the church. Jerome translated into Latin, the Old Testament from the Hebrew and Aramaic, and the New Testament from Greek. The Latin Vulgate became the Bible of the Western Church until the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s.
In the Latin Vulgate, the Greek word harpazo ("shall be caught up" in English) was translated rapiemur. And, the Latin word rapiemur has been transliterated into the English word "rapture."
So, Jan, yes -- the word "rapture" is indeed found in the Bible; but, one has to look back to the Latin Vulgate to find its word origin.
Yet, in the Bible we do see other instances of a "rapture" occurring.
In 2 Kings 2:11 (kjv), Elijah and Elisha are walking and talking when we read that Elijah was taken up, "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
In this Scripture passage, Elijah did not physically die -- yet, he was taken up into Paradise, i.e., heaven. This can only be seen as a "rapture."
In 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (kjv), the apostle Paul tells of his own "rapture like" experience, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth), such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth). How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
In Revelation 4:1 (kjv), the apostle John is shown a prophetic timeline in a "rapture like" experience, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
But, the most famous "rapture" event is described in Acts 1:9-11, "And when He (Jesus Christ) had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel (angels); which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
That, my Friend, was the Rapture of Jesus Christ. He was ALIVE; then, He was taken up into heaven. He did not die again; He was raptured into heaven.
Yet, these two angels tell His disciples, in Acts 1:11, "This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
In other words, Jesus Christ will come again -- to Rapture His church from this world. He went up, i.e., "a cloud received Him out of their sight" -- and He shall come again, in the clouds, to gather, rapture, His church (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Yet, there is one more amazing Rapture event which will occur after our Rapture.
In Revelation 11:7-12 (kjv), we read of the Two Witnesses sent by God to preach His Word to those lost in worldly sin during the Tribulation, "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (the Antichrist possessed by Satan) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."
Do you notice the similarity through all these passages? Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven; Paul was caught up into paradise; John was told, "Come up hither." Jesus was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. The angels tells His disciples that Jesus "shall so come in like manner."
In other words, He went up "in the clouds" -- He shall return "in the clouds" to redeem His church, His body of believers (1 Thessalonians 4:17). And, the Two Witnesses of the Tribulation "ascended up to heaven in a cloud."
Yes, my Friend, the Rapture is taught in the Bible -- and the Rapture is shown in the Bible. It is in both the Old Testament and in the New Testament. The Rapture is taught in regular Scripture -- and it is taught in prophecy. With all of these examples; it is difficult to deny that Jesus Christ will return to take up, snatch out, rapture, His church before the Tribulation begins (Revelation 3:10,
1 Thessalonians 5:9).
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Original Post
Veep.
See how easy that is?