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This scares me! These people aren't going to be happy until every one of us are dead. If we pull out of Iraq that will just give them more power. These people have to be stopped by any means possible and we have to stop them on their own turf or we will be trying to fight them off on our own hometown streets. We have to stop them from infiltrating our country and using our money to fight against us. I personally don't shop at any "oops" arabic establishment. Everyone needs to stand up for this country and buy AMERICAN from AMERICANS! We need to demand that only legal americans get any kind of benifits,housing or jobs in this country. I'm sorry I'm not as educated as most are on this forum and can't get my point across in a more eloquent way, but I am who I am and too old to change now.
Last edited by yankeegramma
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
This scares me! These people aren't going to be happy until every one of us are dead. If we pull out of Iraq that will just give them more power. These people have to be stopped by any means possible and we have to stop them on their own turf or we will be trying to fight them off on our own hometown streets. We have to stop them from infiltrating our country and using our money to fight against us. I personally don't shop at any rag head establishment. Everyone needs to stand up for this country and buy AMERICAN from AMERICANS! We need to demand that only legal americans get any kind of benifits,housing or jobs in this country. I'm sorry I'm not as educated as most are on this forum and can't get my point across in a more eloquent way, but I am who I am and too old to change now.


If we pull out, they are going to think the SAME cultural thoughts as they think while we are there.

Yankeewitch, I totally agree with you about our buying... People buy from these sort of convenience stores because they are a bit cheaper... but what they DO NOT see is that these people do NOT have to pay the taxes a normal American establishment does!!!

I know this forum is small, but I hope your answer here rings LOUD and CLEAR to everyone who walks into one of those places and give them money... They may be saving a little at the register, but at WHAT cost to America? I think the cost will be huge, and there is yet more to SEE with this topic in the future, and it won't be pretty.

Their stores and motels are on almost every street corner in this area, as well as any other city or state I have been in.

People want to talk about keeping the Troops over THERE to protect HERE, then just look, as you are going down almost any buisiness street and see just how many are already here.

Those men who did their suicide crashes into the WTC, Pentagon and Flight 93 took their flight training in Florida... NOT OVER THERE... but HERE. And I just bet their 'cells' are numerous, VERY numerous right under our noses. Frowner
Not long ago in Nashville, an Arabic owned store, similar to the kind being discussed here, was robbed. The two Middle Eastern men who were working there at the time were shot and killed.

The two men were Christians who fled their country in search of a better life. They were legal citizens with friends, families, and people who cared about them.

I agree that Islam is a religion of violence, but don't let that turn into racism. Then you are no better than the radical Islams. Those store owners do in fact pay the same taxes any other American store pays. They are not funding terrorism with their stores, they are not out to get you. They left a horrible situation in hopes of finding success.
Having encountered the jehadis up close and personal, I have no love for them. But, the stores and businesses of foreigners in the US are subject to the same taxes as US citizens.

Yes, aliens who advocate sharia or terror in the US should be shown the exit quickly. But, legal productive, foreigners are plus. We attract the best minds in the world. Germany caused some of her best scientists to immigrate to the US in the 1930's. They repaid the US with their labors leading to the defeat of Germany.

Eighty percent of the Arabs in the US are Christian, not Muslim. Their muslim brethren ran them off. From their ranks we recruit native speakers of the language and persons with insight into the jehadi mindset.
quote:
Nash, This just a thought.If these people were sent here to infiltrate our country , wouldn't they pretend to be something that they are not?They wouldn't come here and announce that they were terrorists would they?


How do you know the store owners in the Shoals are here to infiltrate our country? Why are they in a small town rather than a large city? How many of the terrorist involved with 9/11 were store owners?

Maybe they are actually hard working people who are just trying to make a living.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Not long ago in Nashville, an Arabic owned store, similar to the kind being discussed here, was robbed. The two Middle Eastern men who were working there at the time were shot and killed.

The two men were Christians who fled their country in search of a better life. They were legal citizens with friends, families, and people who cared about them.

I agree that Islam is a religion of violence, but don't let that turn into racism. Then you are no better than the radical Islams. Those store owners do in fact pay the same taxes any other American store pays. They are not funding terrorism with their stores, they are not out to get you. They left a horrible situation in hopes of finding success.


Oh gosh, I have got to go on gov.com now and FIND the place where it tells each and every one of us who reads it that they DO NOT pay the taxes Americans do... they are tax exempt... hence the cheaper gas, cheaper cigarettes, and cheaper everything... It matters NOT whether they were fled here for a better life, their better life did not include taxes.
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Nash, This just a thought.If these people were sent here to infiltrate our country , wouldn't they pretend to be something that they are not?They wouldn't come here and announce that they were terrorists would they?


Right on Yankeewitch!!! Those 'cells' in Florida who carried out 9/11 pretended for YEARS to be something they were not. Lived in the best part of town, held down good jobs, and took Airplane Flying lessons... go figure.

Now the subject... HOW in the world does ANYONE know the good ones from the bad ones? I wish someone could give the answer to that question.
How do you know the store owners in the Shoals are here to infiltrate our country? Why are they in a small town rather than a large city? How many of the terrorist involved with 9/11 were store owners?

Maybe they are actually hard working people who are just trying to make a living.[/QUOTE

How do you know they are not? How do you know that they are not in the large cities and small towns? And I admit they maybe hard working people just trying to make a living, but maybe that is just a cover. We just don't need to let our guards down or bury our heads in the sand.
quote:
How do you know they are not? How do you know that they are not in the large cities and small towns? And I admit they maybe hard working people just trying to make a living, but maybe that is just a cover. We just don't need to let our guards down or bury our heads in the sand.


We shouldn't let our guard down, but we also should not persicute the innocent in the process. Think about it, what are the odds that the guy behind the counter at the corner market is a terrorist? No "what if", think about it realisticly.

As for the tax break, provide a link of proof please Kindred.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
How do you know they are not? How do you know that they are not in the large cities and small towns? And I admit they maybe hard working people just trying to make a living, but maybe that is just a cover. We just don't need to let our guards down or bury our heads in the sand.


Oh I intend to provide the link, it is a lot to read through to find it, and I could kick myself for not bookmarking it, but it is there, on the gov website. NO TAXES for business, and free education.

But I cannot provide that until I get home, this puter is too slow to even try.


We shouldn't let our guard down, but we also should not persicute the innocent in the process. Think about it, what are the odds that the guy behind the counter at the corner market is a terrorist? No "what if", think about it realisticly.

As for the tax break, provide a link of proof please Kindred.
Islam is a peaceful religion? Give me a break!! Islam teaches that those that belong to other religions are to die! You either convert to Islam or you will be killed! If this is not so, where are the so-called moderate Muslims demanding that the radicals of their religion stop the killing?? Why are they not in the streets protesting?
Walter096 wrote:
"If this is not so, where are the so-called moderate Muslims demanding that the radicals of their religion stop the killing?? Why are they not in the streets protesting?"

Answer: Most of the leaders of the Muslim world protested against the 9/11 attack and expressed their sympathies to the US, even the Iranian Ayatollahs. Protests, comments and explanations by Muslims leaders and scholars may be found at "CAIR's website" and "Islam for today website."
Americans have the perception that Muslim did not and do not speak out against terrorism. This is partly because of the sensationalist style of the American media. If thousands of top Muslim leaders condemn terrorism, it is not news and does not get reported in the US media, but if one crazy person in a cave makes wild statements, that is what the US media reports, so the American public is left with an unbalanced view of Islam and Muslims. Even the European media is more balanced than the US media in its coverage of serious versus sensationalist news, and in providing a broader perspective.
That's the purpose behind these and other propagandistic photos and websites. They want you to be afraid, they want you to hate, they want you to prejudge people based on their race,color, culture, and religion. How long will the negative stereotypes and condemnations take place before people in our society decide to exercise a little reconnaissance and see the actual agenda behind this propaganda.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yankeewitch:
"This scares me! These people aren't going to be happy until every one of us are dead."
quote:
Originally posted by kazem7419:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
"If I'm not mistaken, I think that maybe Buddhism and Jainism are the only religions with a peaceful history....."


To look at the history of the religions of the world, they were all based on peace. It has always been the people in the religions that did not practice peace.


I've read books. The Quran and the Bible, there is some pretty brutal stuff in these two.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Islam a "peaceful religion"? I about fell out my chair when I read that.

www.ArabicGroup.com

http://www.arabicgroup.com/islam/index.htm

Read the papers written by Samer Abdelrahman who is an Islamic and Arabic Culture Consultant. He is a former Sunni Muslim who is now a Christian. He is an Americanized Iraqi who is working on his doctorate at KU; has degrees in philosphy and the like from Baghdad U. (late 1980's) and U of Cairo, Egypt in early 1990's.
He used to work in Saddam's secret police...He knows more than most about it.

Samer was one of several Iraqi's (Sunni and Shi'ite) who fled Iraq under Saddam's rule and now live in the Kansas City area. They came to our Iraq Culture class and gave lectures, etc.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by miamizsun:
"I've read books. The Quran and the Bible, there is some pretty brutal stuff in these two."

I don't think that it is so much that they are brutal, but Men (both genders)took on a whole different concept for existence. They no longer want to hold themselves accountable socially. Look at the Old Testament (Torah) it is considered harsh for most people. There are stories of people being condemned for the smallest infractions. You notice that the people in those times were closer in their belief of God. The New Testament (Gospels)men had more discretion in their dealings with God. By the way, those two versions of the Bible are acknowledged by Muslims as works of God. The Qu'ran, like the Old Testament was sent to teach men to be accountable for themselves through laws and social standards. To provide guidance back to the path of righteousness. The path back to righteousness is usually not easy, it can be brutal at times.
Last edited by kazem7419
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
I waited until I got home from work to see the original link. That's pretty eye opening. Those are the extremists we're fighting over there. If we don't defeat them in their land, they'll come to ours.



Ummmmm, they already have, and cells of them still exist in probably every state we have. They are here, we just don't know where, or when.
Islam IS a religion of peace. What we are seeing is slice of media fodder and "insurgents," as they are called, within the religion.

You weak minded people have allowed an internet culture to be your teacher. Use History books, or better yet, primary sources. Try to seek the truth instead of the popular need to hate another religion.

The only story of violence I read in the Qur'an was about a man who summoned bears to slaughter 42 children for making fun of his religious expression. Oh, wait, sorry . . . that's the Bible (2 Kings 2.23-24).

But then there's that Islamic story about the man who became so infuriated at his wife because she was defiled by villainous gang-rapers, even though he gave her to them, that he dragged her home on a donkey and cut her into twelve pieces. He then mailed the pieces to different parts of the region. Oops . . . that's the Bible, too (Judges 19.23-30).

I bet we could find more if we tried.

If you really are Christians, perhaps you should be thinking of effective methods of evangelism instead of the best way to "kill 'em all."
Last edited by Rowan Oak
Understand the man behind the religion by studying the works that describe him best. If this is what passes for a "prophet" of a "peaceful" religion.........

www.prophetofdoom.net

Also remember that the Quran states that it is alright for a Muslim to lie to and break contracts or promises with an infidel. Given that, do we trust anything they say? Even if it is to say, "we're so sorry for your loss?" I saw more people dancing in Arab streets than I saw grieving with us. Infidels are considered no better than chattel to be killed, sold, or converted. The only way an infidel can live on muslim lands is to pay a tax (ransom) for his/her own life or to convert.....religion of peace my ass. This is exactly why the first Crusades were fought. It was the Western world 's pushpack to Muslim encroachment.
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Islam IS a religion of peace. What we are seeing is slice of media fodder and "insurgents," as they are called, within the religion.

You weak minded people have allowed an internet culture to be your teacher. Use History books, or better yet, primary sources. Try to seek the truth instead of the popular need to hate another religion.

The only story of violence I read in the Qur'an was about a man who summoned bears to slaughter 42 children for making fun of his religious expression. Oh, wait, sorry . . . that's the Bible (2 Kings 2.23-24).

But then there's that Islamic story about the man who became so infuriated at his wife because she was defiled by villainous gang-rapers, even though he gave her to them, that he dragged her home on a donkey and cut her into twelve pieces. He then mailed the pieces to different parts of the region. Oops . . . that's the Bible, too (Judges 19.23-30).

I bet we could find more if we tried.

If you really are Christians, perhaps you should be thinking of effective methods of evangelism instead of the best way to "kill 'em all."


Oh, now we are called weak minded because you joined the boards? I am impressed!!!!

Go back and get to KNOW us before starting to call names. This just isn't a nice way to get started and get to know people here...

Just a thought.... from my weak mind... but OOOPS, I forgot, I don't even have a weak mind! lol
Oh, good. I'm glad your website is here to give us real knowledge.

Go read a book. Better yet, since you've decided to be the Christian warrior, go read the Qur'an so you can actually quote it from your own study instead of quoting someone else who may or may be quoting someone else as well.

This is getting old. People have an opinion and they go look for easy ways to help justify them e.g. websites and nifty e-mail forwards. If your opinion is right, then you will be better for having solid evidence. If it's wrong, you'll be better for knowing the truth.

BTW, you see more street dancers than sympathizers because it makes better news spots. A leading Muslim leader was just on NATIONAL TELEVISION this very morning repudiating the extremists and terrorists. He was lauding Muslims who have had contact with terrorist organizations but chose to leave and fight against them.

Research = Knowledge = Power, therefore without research, you have no power.
quote:
Originally posted by kazem7419:
Nice quote voices i. Keep the people paranoid and play on their lack of understanding. It seems easy for some people to decide what is what based on third hand information. How can you look at one religion and say it's not peacful when the history of all or most religions have shown to be aggressive at one point or another.


On the whole, this is a very good point you brought out... WELCOME to the boards...

Please feel free to read back over the older posts, and maybe you can get some insight about all of us Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Islam IS a religion of peace. What we are seeing is slice of media fodder and "insurgents," as they are called, within the religion.

You weak minded people have allowed an internet culture to be your teacher. Use History books, or better yet, primary sources. Try to seek the truth instead of the popular need to hate another religion.

The only story of violence I read in the Qur'an was about a man who summoned bears to slaughter 42 children for making fun of his religious expression. Oh, wait, sorry . . . that's the Bible (2 Kings 2.23-24).

But then there's that Islamic story about the man who became so infuriated at his wife because she was defiled by villainous gang-rapers, even though he gave her to them, that he dragged her home on a donkey and cut her into twelve pieces. He then mailed the pieces to different parts of the region. Oops . . . that's the Bible, too (Judges 19.23-30).

I bet we could find more if we tried.

If you really are Christians, perhaps you should be thinking of effective methods of evangelism instead of the best way to "kill 'em all."


Oh, now we are called weak minded because you joined the boards? I am impressed!!!!

Go back and get to KNOW us before starting to call names. This just isn't a nice way to get started and get to know people here...

Just a thought.... from my weak mind... but OOOPS, I forgot, I don't even have a weak mind! lol


I'm not interested in friends. I have a couple, and they may be too many. I'm here for discussion. If you want friends, go to a dating 'site.
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Oh, good. I'm glad your website is here to give us real knowledge.

Go read a book. Better yet, since you've decided to be the Christian warrior, go read the Qur'an so you can actually quote it from your own study instead of quoting someone else who may or may be quoting someone else as well.

This is getting old. People have an opinion and they go look for easy ways to help justify them e.g. websites and nifty e-mail forwards. If your opinion is right, then you will be better for having solid evidence. If it's wrong, you'll be better for knowing the truth.

BTW, you see more street dancers than sympathizers because it makes better news spots. A leading Muslim leader was just on NATIONAL TELEVISION this very morning repudiating the extremists and terrorists. He was lauding Muslims who have had contact with terrorist organizations but chose to leave and fight against them.

Research = Knowledge = Power, therefore without research, you have no power.


"Getting OLD"... hmmmm, you are a new member yet you are talking about us like we are idiots, and we should read the Qur'an... well.. let me tell YOU something... You come on here like a genius, and start right from the get-go with insults to people you dont know... OR DO YOU???.... then turn around and lecture.

Please, get a grasp of all the diversity you are dealing with on the boards before playing genius here.
Last edited by Kindred
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
Islam a "peaceful religion"? I about fell out my chair when I read that.

www.ArabicGroup.com

http://www.arabicgroup.com/islam/index.htm

Read the papers written by Samer Abdelrahman who is an Islamic and Arabic Culture Consultant. He is a former Sunni Muslim who is now a Christian. He is an Americanized Iraqi who is working on his doctorate at KU; has degrees in philosphy and the like from Baghdad U. (late 1980's) and U of Cairo, Egypt in early 1990's.
He used to work in Saddam's secret police...He knows more than most about it.

Samer was one of several Iraqi's (Sunni and Shi'ite) who fled Iraq under Saddam's rule and now live in the Kansas City area. They came to our Iraq Culture class and gave lectures, etc.


Thanks Brent!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Oh, good. I'm glad your website is here to give us real knowledge.

Go read a book. Better yet, since you've decided to be the Christian warrior, go read the Qur'an so you can actually quote it from your own study instead of quoting someone else who may or may be quoting someone else as well.

This is getting old. People have an opinion and they go look for easy ways to help justify them e.g. websites and nifty e-mail forwards. If your opinion is right, then you will be better for having solid evidence. If it's wrong, you'll be better for knowing the truth.

BTW, you see more street dancers than sympathizers because it makes better news spots. A leading Muslim leader was just on NATIONAL TELEVISION this very morning repudiating the extremists and terrorists. He was lauding Muslims who have had contact with terrorist organizations but chose to leave and fight against them.

Research = Knowledge = Power, therefore without research, you have no power.


"Getting OLD"... hmmmm, you are a new member yet you are talking about us like we are idiots, and we should read the Qur
an... well.. let me tell YOU something... You come on here like a genius, and start right from the get-go with insults to people you dont know... OR DO YOU???.... then turn around and lecture.

Please, get a grasp of all the diversity you are dealing with on the boards before playing genius here.


I wonder if you would worry about my posts so much if I militantly echoed your sentiments.

Friend, I'm not worried about who is right or wrong on these boards. I enjoy seeing a mixture of ideas.

Having said that . . .

I realize that in a face to face setting, all of our words would be quite different. Apparently this is the way you all have conducted the discussions. So, since I'm new, I'll jade the intensity in my posts.

To be clear: I, too, am for suppressing militants and extremists. I am for a war against those who would spray their violence upon the world. I support our troops. In fact, I would have supported Bush's initiative to fight terrorism if we had gone into Iraq (and every other country that needed it) under those pretenses. I just think it would be in our best interests to keep our anger pointed in the correct and merited direction. The peaceful constituents of Islam will prove to be our strongest allies in the fight against the radicals.

Just as Christians shoudn't be judged by abortion clinic bombers, neither should Muslims be judged by al-Qaeda.

Thanks for the check. Forgive my hastiness.
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Oh, good. I'm glad your website is here to give us real knowledge.

Go read a book. Better yet, since you've decided to be the Christian warrior, go read the Qur'an so you can actually quote it from your own study instead of quoting someone else who may or may be quoting someone else as well.

This is getting old. People have an opinion and they go look for easy ways to help justify them e.g. websites and nifty e-mail forwards. If your opinion is right, then you will be better for having solid evidence. If it's wrong, you'll be better for knowing the truth.

BTW, you see more street dancers than sympathizers because it makes better news spots. A leading Muslim leader was just on NATIONAL TELEVISION this very morning repudiating the extremists and terrorists. He was lauding Muslims who have had contact with terrorist organizations but chose to leave and fight against them.

Research = Knowledge = Power, therefore without research, you have no power.


"Getting OLD"... hmmmm, you are a new member yet you are talking about us like we are idiots, and we should read the Qur
an... well.. let me tell YOU something... You come on here like a genius, and start right from the get-go with insults to people you dont know... OR DO YOU???.... then turn around and lecture.

Please, get a grasp of all the diversity you are dealing with on the boards before playing genius here.


I wonder if you would worry about my posts so much if I militantly echoed your sentiments.

Friend, I'm not worried about who is right or wrong on these boards. I enjoy seeing a mixture of ideas.

Having said that . . .

I realize that in a face to face setting, all of our words would be quite different. Apparently this is the way you all have conducted the discussions. So, since I'm new, I'll jade the intensity in my posts.

To be clear: I, too, am for suppressing militants and extremists. I am for a war against those who would spray their violence upon the world. I support our troops. In fact, I would have supported Bush's initiative to fight terrorism if we had gone into Iraq (and every other country that needed it) under those pretenses. I just think it would be in our best interests to keep our anger pointed in the correct and merited direction. The peaceful constituents of Islam will prove to be our strongest allies in the fight against the radicals.

Just as Christians shoudn't be judged by abortion clinic bombers, neither should Muslims be judged by al-Qaeda.

Thanks for the check. Forgive my hastiness.



Okay Smiler That's cool.. perhaps in my haste to 'read' I took you wrong..

But please, please, please remember that we aren't idiots to be spoken down to, join us, debating can be very interesting, and sometimes heated, especially we all are on the same page of 'respect'...

Welcome to the Forum!!!
Okay, well, thank you.

I certainly didn't mean to make anyone feel as if they were being demeaned. It's just important that this delicate issue is treated correctly. It's bad enough to have the militant minimum to fight; we don't want the added hassle of having upset the majority, due to our stereotyping, as well.

I'm an obsessed fan of 24. Last night I swelled with pride when I saw that they were dealing with this exact issue. I have thought, almost from the beginning of this present war, that Washington might revert to the horrible attrocity they called a solution that we pulled on Japanese-Americans during WW2.

We are a very diverse nation filled with an array of ethnicity and religion. Government should reflect the same diversity. It's not only okay to have a Muslim in office, it's right. Muslims represent about 2+% of the US population. The one muslim in the HOR, a membership of 435, accounts for 1/5 of 1% of the HOR. According to proper representation, there should be more Muslims in congress. Keith Ellison's message is that of peace, and, in order to quell the fear and distaste of many of his opponents, Ellison chose to swear in on Thomas Jefferson's personal copy of the Qur'an (click here for more info').

I digress--slightly.

We should be looking to be at peace with as many as will have it--period. And, Kindred, that is why you and I are now at peace as well, friend.
quote:
Originally posted by one who posts:
Okay, well, thank you.

I certainly didn't mean to make anyone feel as if they were being demeaned. It's just important that this delicate issue is treated correctly. It's bad enough to have the militant minimum to fight; we don't want the added hassle of having upset the majority, due to our stereotyping, as well.

I'm an obsessed fan of 24. Last night I swelled with pride when I saw that they were dealing with this exact issue. I have thought, almost from the beginning of this present war, that Washington might revert to the horrible attrocity they called a solution that we pulled on Japanese-Americans during WW2.

We are a very diverse nation filled with an array of ethnicity and religion. Government should reflect the same diversity. It's not only okay to have a Muslim in office, it's right. Muslims represent about 2+% of the US population. The one muslim in the HOR, a membership of 435, accounts for 1/5 of 1% of the HOR. According to proper representation, there should be more Muslims in congress. Keith Ellison's message is that of peace, and, in order to quell the fear and distaste of many of his opponents, Ellison chose to swear in on Thomas Jefferson's personal copy of the Qur'an (click here for more info').

I digress--slightly.

We should be looking to be at peace with as many as will have it--period. And, Kindred, that is why you and I are now at peace as well, friend.


24 is one of the best shows on TV... gotta love it.

Although, once again, in part I totally agree with you, but in part, I am not talking about the Middle Easterner's whose parents came here, settled down and had AMERICAN children... that would have been many many years before 9/11.

I am talking about those "sleeper cells" out in the world.. those are the ones who make it hard for America to trust the middle easterners.

But like I said, due to all that has gone on in the past six years, American Culture will NOT change in 2008 to elect anything other than a Caucasean Male... We are just not ready for that sort of change, sad but true.

Disagreements are good, we know where we stand Wink
"Sleeper cells" ,gosh that remimds of of a Tom Clancy novel I read years ago. I cann't recall the title of it now but the 'sleeper' had been in the U.S. for many years and ran I think was a rug shop. I'm thinking maybe 15 years. The phone rang at his shop one day and certian sentence was said and that was his 'notifcation' of his part of a 15 year old plan.
I may be wrong on the number of years but was a long time.
I think you could bet your bippy there are those who live as law abiding,taxpaying,naturalized citizens, ready to carry out a role in some sort of plan to harm our Gov. in some way.

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