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i got no problem with this one. if they want to serve in a sub, so what.

i wonder how long it'll be be fore they start fussing that they need seperate sleeping quartoers and laundry etc etc.

if they want equality, let em have it. treat them exactly the same. period. let em eat sleep shower shave etc in the same place and with the same equipment the men use.
if you have to change how things ae done because a woman is onboard, then it isn't equality.
let's give them real equality and see how long it takes for them to start complaining.

note: some will not blink an eye. some really want to serve and really want equality. /cheers to them. a few want to use things liek this as a political statment, and will be the first to fuss that they are being forced to hot-bunk with /shudder men...
quote:
Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
Women won't be happy until they've ruined everything. You know they are going to be driving around in subs fixing their makeup and bumping into whales.


LOL.. oh now, I'm not gonna go THAT far.
Some will serve well in a sub, because it's what they really desire to do. Their .. calling, if you will.
Some are going to be 'oh, I can get my name in books as the first woman on a sub, I'm gonna be famous"
Others will be 'oh awsome, I finally get to serve on a sub, this is gonna be great... hey.. where's the handy sanitaty napkin dispenser in the head? And they grey on grey motif has got to go, a girl needs some color.'

I think most will be happy to be there, and bust their buns to get their jobs done to the best of their ability, and then push harder.

But it's only going to take a few of the other kind to make a stink like a 90 day tour on a 688 boat with nothing but beans and cheese for chow.
To my understanding they will all be on Tridents to begin, not on fast attacks, since boomers have so much more room for separate quarters. The officers' staterooms will be no problem, maybe a LCDR will have to bunk with an EN and a LTjg, but dig deal. I doubt female chiefs will get a goat locker.

Frankly, on patrol for nearly 3 months, all you really worry about is having to go deep for a spell to escape the entire Russian Fleet leaving the Med. and being on ultra quiet which means PB sandwiches and in bunks when not on watch or doing maintenance.

The women will be so busy qualifying subs and their watch stations they won't have time for much flirty flirty by anyone.

As for "open that tanky thingy," lots of luck with that one: the Navy and especially submarines use controlled vocabulary. The order is the Navigator being informed that the ship has reached the dive point, then the Captain orders the OOD to clear the bridge and rig the ship for dig, rig in the jack and the warning light and the suitcase and for lookouts to lay below. The Control Room Coordinator remains in control under the Captain as they descend and rig checked. Then the Captain orders, "Officer of the Deck, submerge the ship." Then both scopes are manned and watched for air in forward and aft ballast tanks as they are vented. The OOD, when satisfied there are no close contacts, orders the Diving Officer to submerge the ship with given depth and angle. Then he orders the Chief of the Watch to check for a green board, he applies in the affirmative, then he is ordered to "Sound 2 blasts of the diving alarm, open forward and then aft vents and over the 1 MC, "dive dive." The claxton goes off, the OOD usually then orders rudder amidship and ahead standard, full dive on fairwaters X on stern planes. The order is passed on the 1 MC.
They watch the air in the water, fore and then aft and report, "Venting forward." "Venting
Aft." The last report is "Decks are awash" and then "Scopes going under." Then the Chief of the watch is ordered to cycle vents once or even twice.

It is ritualized. When one is in heavy seas, it is the most delightful ritual one can ever hear.
Aude Sapere, Sounds like you were on subs, 20 years in the Navy but never on a sub. Who wants to get on a boat that sinks itself? Just kidding, I've known lots of people that were on subs and it really did sound like good duty. thenagel,Said something about the chow, I always understood that subs had the best chow in the Navy and I know the Navy has some of the best in the military. When I was in, sub duty was all voluntary, I'm assuming (ya that bad word) it is still the same. I served with women on surface ships and they did an excellent job for the most part. Percentage wise, we had just as many men screw ups. When they get to the sub, they will have been thru so much training and testing that those that aren't committed wont be there.

Wanted to add: it sounds like some of these comments come from people that have watched the movie "Down Periscope" one too many times.
Last edited by oLDsEAdADDY
quote:
Originally posted by oLDsEAdADDY:
Aude Sapere, Sounds like you were on subs, 20 years in the Navy but never on a sub. Who wants to get on a boat that sinks itself? Just kidding, I've known lots of people that were on subs and it really did sound like good duty. thenagel,Said something about the chow, I always understood that subs had the best chow in the Navy and I know the Navy has some of the best in the military. When I was in, sub duty was all voluntary, I'm assuming (ya that bad word) it is still the same. I served with women on surface ships and they did an excellent job for the most part. Percentage wise, we had just as many men screw ups. When they get to the sub, they will have been thru so much training and testing that those that aren't committed wont be there.

Wanted to add: it sounds like some of these comments come from people that have watched the movie "Down Periscope" one too many times.


no no.. what i said was -
But it's only going to take a few of the other kind to make a stink like a 90 day tour on a 688 boat with nothing but beans and cheese for chow.

meaning the women who might be doing this as a kinda of statement, instead of the ones who genuinly want to do it.

i hadn't heard anything about what kinda of boats were in question, just 'subs' so i turned on the old clancy memory switch and pulled up a variety of US sub. it was the first one that came to mind.

i admit easily that i know diddly about the reality of subs, just what i read in various fiction, but i know enough to know that down periscope has little accuracy in it. i think they got the shape right, but i wouldn't put money on it Smiler that being said, i love that silly movie
Aude,
I'm impressed. It DOES sound like you know what you're talking about. Either that, or you did extensive research. I, too, was on subs for 5 years as a Navigation Electronics Technician. I am a plankowner on the USS JIMMY CARTER (SSN 23) and I finished my sub tour and enlistment on the USS AUGUSTA (SSN710) not long before her final deployment.
We had several female "riders" on a few occasions. Things get all haywire during that time, especially if the woman is only half-way easy on the eyes. Testosterone kicks in and let the cave man antics begin. I was glad I enlisted later in life than most of the guys I served alongside. I believe the sub community is going to have some manning problems once this is implemented. The best thing about sub duty was guys could be guys, without being afraid of sexual harrassment complaints, hurting someone's feelings or taking it easy on another shipmate. No more "good games." No more COB's Underway Babe of the Day on the TV in Crew's Mess. No more officers "running the gauntlet" to get past the enlisted chow line. Everything is going to have to be PC and all the guys are going to have to walk around on pins and needles. Wives who only had liberty port women to worry about now have concern themselves with the women on the boat. At least they're going to be on boomers and GN's initially. I guess 9-man berthing will become the new male officer berthing so the women can live all cushy in privacy with their own head.
I went on board USS Kamehameha (SSSBN 642, combined crew) in Portsmouth Shipyard in 1981 after A School, Nuke School in Orlando, and then Prototype in Idaho. We went to sea and split crews in late 82. We did weps testing off Andros Island at AUTEC, then did nuclear weapons load at Goose Creek, shot a missile at Cape Canaveral, then left for patrol out of the Holy Loch. I made four patrols. I was an ET2(SS) qualified reactor operator and shutdown reactor operator as well as AMR2UL, AEA, Electrical Operator, Battery Charging Electrician and working on my ER quals to qualify for Engineering Watch Supervisor.

I have done more fast recovery startups at test depth than anyone on the Usedtofish (submarine joke there).

The food is true. Fresh bread daily, birthday cake of your choice of flavor, ribeyes every Friday cooked to order, crab legs on half way night and on other special events . . . Victoria Cookies! Pistachios! Having the messenger of the watch bring back "extra thick milk shakes" to the engineering spaces . . .

Drawback: I was always startup Reactor Operator then maneuvering watch Reactor Operator, then BS torpedo and missile Reactor Operator, then had to be maneuvering watch RO again, then shutdown the reactor and cool it down. Too darn good at operations, I presume. I always got my estimated critical positions within 1/10 of an inch of actual critical rod height and could do those "4 degrees a minute" with the best of them, order the AMR2LL to charge for 2 seconds for a solid plant and get the pressure I wanted.

The boredom was frankly almost unbearable at times, the fatigue overwhelming at maneuvering and shutdown and start up, and we had female riders often during the sea trials and on AUTEC. Nobody really noticed, to be frank. We knew the women who rode on sea trials and the others were scientists who we rarely saw.

But I can claim to be part of an extremely elite fraternity/sorority now that did its job with the utmost professionalism and pride. Now we claimed that sub vols were the top 10% of the Navy and nukes the top 10% of them, so in our utmost pride in our highly coveted silver and gold dolphins we nukes reckoned we were the top 1% since we were the first on board and the last off, and you can't shoot anything without electricity and no propulsion turbines makes for lousy navigating!

p.s. It got hotter in Maneuvering and the ER than anywhere else when we did a drill that involved a scram. Thank the guys like me when we got the reactor critical in a few minutes and the turbines rolling and secured rig for reduced electrical!
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
i got no problem with this one. if they want to serve in a sub, so what.

i wonder how long it'll be be fore they start fussing that they need seperate sleeping quartoers and laundry etc etc.

if they want equality, let em have it. treat them exactly the same. period. let em eat sleep shower shave etc in the same place and with the same equipment the men use.
if you have to change how things ae done because a woman is onboard, then it isn't equality.
let's give them real equality and see how long it takes for them to start complaining.

note: some will not blink an eye. some really want to serve and really want equality. /cheers to them. a few want to use things liek this as a political statment, and will be the first to fuss that they are being forced to hot-bunk with /shudder men...


I'd be willing to bet a woman could deal with showering next to a man and not think anything of it.

In such a situation, issues that arise will be solely on the man's part.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
i got no problem with this one. if they want to serve in a sub, so what.

i wonder how long it'll be be fore they start fussing that they need seperate sleeping quartoers and laundry etc etc.

if they want equality, let em have it. treat them exactly the same. period. let em eat sleep shower shave etc in the same place and with the same equipment the men use.
if you have to change how things ae done because a woman is onboard, then it isn't equality.
let's give them real equality and see how long it takes for them to start complaining.

note: some will not blink an eye. some really want to serve and really want equality. /cheers to them. a few want to use things liek this as a political statment, and will be the first to fuss that they are being forced to hot-bunk with /shudder men...


I'd be willing to bet a woman could deal with showering next to a man and not think anything of it.

In such a situation, issues that arise will be solely on the man's part.


ROFLMAO
i guess we'll find out shortly once they start boarding their boats.
Y'all need to remember that the Navy is so important we have our own army (Marines) and air force. Their duties are largely to support the admirals' decisions who happen mostly to be nuclear trained submariners! Heck, submarines even have their own navy!

If the surface skimmers are xtra nice, we might even let them deign to wear our poopie suits and get that sub smell on them, should they convert and undergo their training and ritual hazing.
quote:
Originally posted by Aude Sapere:
Y'all need to remember that the Navy is so important we have our own army (Marines) and air force. Their duties are largely to support the admirals' decisions who happen mostly to be nuclear trained submariners! Heck, submarines even have their own navy!

If the surface skimmers are xtra nice, we might even let them deign to wear our poopie suits and get that sub smell on them, should they convert and undergo their training and ritual hazing.


Before I got out in '07, we were starting to go all PC. Poopie suits were "Navy coveralls." At the risk of offending someone, everyone except the COB thought "Navy coveralls" sounded gay. I've still got one poopie suit with my silver dolphins in a locker at work. I think it's safer there.
Talking about that sub smell; I remember how fresh and clean all your clothes would smell after doing laundry on the boat. Carry that same laundry off the boat just 30 seconds later and, whoa, "Who poured amine all over my stuff?" It smelled like you'd been working in an auto repair shop for about a year straight without showering or doing laundry.
So, you're a Nuke? I'm a Coner. ET2(SS) qualified in POOD/Topside(SSN's 710 and 23), Helmsman/Planesman (SSN's 710 and 23), Look-out, Battery Charging Electrician Forward (710 and 23) , Auxiliary Electrician Forward(710), Electronics Technician Of the Watch, Radar (23). I'm sure there are more, but I can't remember right now. Oh, well. There are all the small arms quals, but I won't go into those. What fun.
The Lithium Bromide almost never ran, so I don't know why that overwhelming amine was so noxious. The same goes for the diesel oil smell mixed in. We only snorkeled when there was loss of shore power or a long scram drill. I don't ever recall us even taking on fuel oil! I guess the "other crew" did it.

RE: women on board: I keep on thinking about the ladies of the tug boats in Portsmouth Navy Yard and their tattoo collections and missing teeth from bar fights.

Went into their den once to find a working soda machine. Big mistake. I thought the pool sticks they all had were about to come at me. Not very polite, even for surface pukes at all.

Seriously, we had several female riders over the years and with the berthing that Tridents have I really do not see any great disadvantage. For those who think that everyone on a sub has a group shower or that doors on heads and showers do not exist, getouttaheah!

I can only recall 2 or 3 flagrant exhibitionists over 6 years. All were missile techs.

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