Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Well you see senior, they only follow the bible IF it benefits them.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No Best, I'm just bored with every little sanka boy thinks he's knows

something new. They ask their stupid questions, believing how unique they are.

I saw the Maury show once, this is it.

 

.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Well you see senior, they only follow the bible IF it benefits them.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No Best, I'm just bored with every little sanka boy thinks he's knows

something new. They ask their stupid questions, believing how unique they are.

I saw the Maury show once, this is it.

 

.

What Vic is saying is that Jesus was a Socialist, but since he doesn't agree, he will ignore the topic.

quote:   Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Do you deny his teachings on giving and sharing?  One his ideas of justice.  As well as his admonitions against acquiring riches?  Read Luke 12:13-31.

Hi Senior,

 

Yes, Jesus Christ did teach us to share and give to those in need; He taught us that we should respect those in power in government -- but, first, He taught us that we must always have our eyes on heaven; that we must seek His "paid in full" free gift of salvation.

 

Actually, the entire Bible -- although it was written, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, by 40 men living in diverse geographic locations, over a period of 1600 years -- has one basic theme:  the salvation of mankind.  That is the sole purpose of Jesus Christ coming to earth as God Incarnate.  That is the sole purpose of His dying on the cross and resurrecting to ascend into heaven.  Salvation of man is the focus of the Bible.

 

Was, or is, Jesus Christ against acquiring earthly wealth?   No.  However, He does admonish us to not allow earthly wealth -- or anything else in the material world -- to become our gods.  There is only one God and we are not to acquire worldly wealth to be another god.   Other than that, I do not believe He is against a person becoming wealthy.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:  Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

Their god isn't against them getting wealthy if they make him wealthy too.


Hi Jennifer,

 

How does one make the One who owns the universe and all within it -- more wealthy?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:    Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Bill,  I didn't originally include Luke 12:33, and I should have. That would make it pretty obvious a follower should not acquire wealth.

Hi Senior,

 

That is not the way I would interpret that passage.   Luke 12:33-34, "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

 

In the Scripture passage found in Luke 12:22-34 (also in Matthew 6:25-34), this is part of the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus is teaching that man should not be anxious for material things, or wealth -- but, should, as He teaches in verse 31, "But seek for His kingdom , and these things will be added to you." 

 

And, in verses 33-34, He is telling His disciples that we should be seeking treasures in heaven -- not material treasures of this world.   For, as He tell us, in verse 34, "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

 

He wants our hearts and minds to be on seeking eternal life with God; not on becoming the next Bill Gates.  However, as long as we have our hearts and minds focused on Him -- He does not preclude us becoming rich.  He just admonishes us to not allow the worldly treasures to become our gods.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Why would you think you needed to interpret something so simple.

 

Luke 12:33-34, "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."


Pretty straight forward I would say.


I would agree that the character Jesus was a socialist. I too have wondered why Christians seem to be more Republican leaning. Which is strong capitalism. I also believe it is a case of choosing to practice what they want to and ignore the rest, or in Bill's case just interpreting it to mean whatever they want.

Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
It is obvious from the philosophy attributed to Jesus that he was a Sociaist. Why aren't those that claim to follow his example?

 

Can you tell me the difference between a Socialist and a Communist? (And not the old joke about the cows.)

Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
Do you deny his teachings on giving and sharing? One his ideas of justice. As well as his admonitions against acquiring  riches? Read Luke 12:13-31.

Luke 12

13  And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.

14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:

17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

22  And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31  But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

Where in that do you see an admonition to subjugate ones' self to a hierarchy of mankind to have ones' possessions distributed as the hierarchy sees fit? You won't see, because it is not there. The verses above are about being oriented to G-D and spiritual endeavors with a healthy disregard for earthly 'things'. Further, that said things should hold no great attachment for followers of Yeshua and should be willingly shared among the followers(voluntary with joy), not that property should be turned over to authority of mankind for redistribution(taken without permission).

 

I didn't originally include Luke 12:33, and I should have. That would make it pretty obvious a follower should not acquire wealth.

WRONG.


Luke 12:32, 33, & 34

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

You conveniently left out verse 32 and 34 which takes the context away. Verse 34 is the summation of all the previous verses...


Luke 12:34

34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


So there you have it, it's not a sin to be wealthy, to earn wealth, or for you to be the one who decides what to do with your wealth. It is a sin to seek, crave, or lust after wealth instead of seeking G-D and His kingdom. Luke12:31 "But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you."


Your case for coersive collectivism is specious at best, libelous at worst.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Well you see senior, they only follow the bible IF it benefits them.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No Best, I'm just bored with every little sanka boy thinks he's knows

something new. They ask their stupid questions, believing how unique they are.

I saw the Maury show once, this is it.

 

.

What Vic is saying is that Jesus was a Socialist, but since he doesn't agree, he will ignore the topic.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

jammaboy DH,,, What you just said is a lie, and you know it.

.

Socialism is essentially when a government takes from those who produce and distribute to those who do not. That's not what Christ taught or endorsed.

 

Jesus taught to willingly care for the poor and less fortunate. He also taught against greed and putting too much value in material wealth. We leave it all behind when we die anyway, so we are to be good stewards of what we have and use it to help others as best we can.

 

Choice is the main flaw in the "Jesus was a socialist" argument. Jesus told the rich man who wanted to follow Him to sell everything first. The rich man was too attached to his wealth and chose not to. If Jesus was a socialist, He would have just took it against the man's will. Instead, He used the situation to teach that attachment to things and wealth can cause us to miss out on greater things.

 

 

I think when people say that Jesus was a socialist, they are actually talking about Social Democracy. As in the Nordic Model. Socialism has many different flavors and definitions. Jesus certainly would be closer to many of those than any other political or social  party. His philosophy is contrary to capitalism.  

 

Originally Posted by NashBama:

Socialism is essentially when a government takes from those who produce and distribute to those who do not. That's not what Christ taught or endorsed.

 

Jesus taught to willingly care for the poor and less fortunate. He also taught against greed and putting too much value in material wealth. We leave it all behind when we die anyway, so we are to be good stewards of what we have and use it to help others as best we can.

 

Choice is the main flaw in the "Jesus was a socialist" argument. Jesus told the rich man who wanted to follow Him to sell everything first. The rich man was too attached to his wealth and chose not to. If Jesus was a socialist, He would have just took it against the man's will. Instead, He used the situation to teach that attachment to things and wealth can cause us to miss out on greater things.

That is what I said... except you did without being verbose. Good.

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Hey Vic. I never lIe, and you know it.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You lie and everyone knows it, it's obvious.

Coffee doesn't anymore know what he's talking about than you.

atheists are stupid that way.

.

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