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OK, you finance it, obtain the licenses, buy the equipment, set it up, line up the programming, hire the necessary workers, and then find out that this area does not have enough advertising to support another television station, or the customer base to make it a paying proposition on cable. Then you can sell out to a major corporation like our old WOWL did.
MD 20/20, I can assure you that there is no connection between me and the T/D except that I read it on line, and occasionally post here. I'm not a reporter (although I know a couple of them), I don't deliver papers, and I don't sell ads. I don't even receive a hard copy at my house. My reply was a result of my disdain for the cry of the inept, "somebody's got to do something", or "why doesn't somebody do it for me". If "somebody" wants something done, buckle down, pony up and do it yourself. If they're not willing to make it happen, "somebody" should accept what they're offered and shut up. I still assert that there is not enough business and/or interest in the Shoals area in a local station to make it a viable, economically sound investment.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
Well, Ala Charger (or TD employee) whichever you prefer: there WAS a private investor who died and Jamie Cooper tried to but the station but was blocked by the local officials at the time. Done some investigative reporting? Of course not, **** you people would do better to go to the local BP and get your articles!


And let the Accusations begin... UGH Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by jim.bevis@csrministries.org:
Let's start another one. Why is an area the size of the Shoals area (approximately150,000) not large enough to have it's own t.v.station. Why must we be subjected to 30 minutes of Madison and Limestone news with maybe a nightly mention of the Shoals. Somebody help me.



History Lesson 101: years ago, there was a channel 15 (actually located on your dial as #2) They had news, sports, weather.. the whole nine yards. In fact, a LOT of people this channel hired and trained ended up leaving and going to H'ville for a higher paying job. Years passed, and there wasn't enough support, so it had to just stop.

Whose fault is that? OURS for not watching it. LOCAL BUSINESSES for not advertising, and a multitude of other things that make a television station work for the area...

So... we HAVE been there, and HAVE done that, ... and failed.. Confused
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
And keep the owls eye green


themax, we were just talking about that the other night. My Mom and Dad were huge Bowlers... and they bowled at Fountain Lanes, and twice a week we made that Trek from Sheffield... When the Owls Eye was RED, that was all that was talked about at the bowling alley, because "INSTANT" news was not available back then.
I recall WOWL and Dick Biddle, I believe his name was, reporting the news. I also want to say Otto Speake was involved in some way, but maybe not. Man that was over thirty years ago.

I remember coming home from R.E. Thompson Elementry School and turning on channel 15 for Clutch Cargo cartoons. I also remember they were an NBC affiliate and carried their program lineup including the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. It seems, even back then, everybody watched the Huntsville stations. I guess to see what was happening in the rest of the world. It wasn't long until the few local advertisers realized they got more response from their ads on the out of town stations than the local ones.

One reason may be that in those days the Times Daily was an evening news paper. Most got home about the same time the paper hit the drive. The ink wasn't always dry. What you were reading was that day's news. Everything that had happened locally that day was on the front page. No use watching local news to hear them read the paper to you more or less. Instead watch Huntsville to see what happened there. Now we're reaping the reward for that mind set, combined with getting yesterday'snews in our morning paper. By the time we read it,it's been all over the TV and internet for at least 24 hours. I guess everybody wanted a morning paper like the big cities have but there's not enough news of significance happening over night to fill up a paper so they are left with rehashing yesterday's stories.

Hijack, and rant, over!
The reason WOWL basically went away is because there were two NBC affiliates in the same market. Florence is in Huntsville's market. WOWL was competing against WAAF and losing, actually went bankrupt. Huntsville at the time didn't have a WB or UPN network, so the owners of WOWL decided to drop NBC and pick up UPN so that way they could compete against the Huntsville stations. UPN did not support local news, so that went away in 1999.

No one is to blame for WOWL changing, that's just how the industry works. Florence just happens to be located just close enough to Huntsville to be included in their market and just far enough to be forgotten about.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
The reason WOWL basically went away is because there were two NBC affiliates in the same market. Florence is in Huntsville's market. WOWL was competing against WAAF and losing, actually went bankrupt. Huntsville at the time didn't have a WB or UPN network, so the owners of WOWL decided to drop NBC and pick up UPN so that way they could compete against the Huntsville stations. UPN did not support local news, so that went away in 1999.

No one is to blame for WOWL changing, that's just how the industry works. Florence just happens to be located just close enough to Huntsville to be included in their market and just far enough to be forgotten about.


Since most of us was alive during this era, we remember what happened, and about WHEN it happened,... that is why, in my reply WAY above, I said "and a multitude of other things"... I didnt want to go into details that I knew about...

Why? Because we were having fun with this post, and didnt want to mess that up by being a history book Big Grin

Just kidding Nash... Hope you know that by now... Wink
Last edited by Kindred
You asked "Why is an area the size of the Shoals area (approximately150,000) not large enough to have it's own t.v.station"?

Actually, the Shoals has it's own teevee (or if you prefer, TV) station!

Formerly WOWL TV 15, it is now WHDF TV 15.
http://www.thevalleyscw.tv/

Their call sign was changed to WHDF on 07/19/1999 and to WOWL-TV on 01/30/1979 from WOWL.

They are owned by the Lockwood Broadcast Group.

Query the FCC database:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WHDF

(The following PUBLIC INFORMATION info from FCC form 323, "Ownership Report for Commerical Broadcast Stations"; http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/for...d=323&fac_num=65128

The FRN (FCC Registration Number) for WHDF is 0010458032, and their Facility ID Number is 65128. Their license expires 04/12/2013.

Their ERP (Effective Radiated Power) is 1000 kW (i.e., 1,000,000 watts), with a bi-directional antenna atop a tower in Minor Hill, TN. The Maximum Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT) is 463m (1,519 feet). The Antenna Height Above Ground Level (AGL) is 401m (1,315 feet). Their antenna ID is 66619.

Huntsville TV, LLC is the licensee for WHDF, and Brooks Pierce is the contact person. The FCC states the mailing address is: WHDF. C/O Brooks Pierce, PO BOX 1800, Raleigh, NC, 27602. They are FCC facility ID 65128. Phone 919-839-0300, and email for Mark J. Prak, Contact Representative is MPRAK@BROOKSPIERCE.COM.

President and manager is David A. Hanna of Hampton, Virginia. David Hanna's phone number is 757-722-9736. CEO, Manager & Board Member is James L. Lockwood, of Hamptom, VA, whom has 100% of the corporation's voting power. Vice President, Secretary & Manager is Pamela B. Lawson of Hampton, VA.

Respondent is a Virginia Limited Liability Company, commonly controls KTEN(TV), in Ada OK, and WUPV(TV) in Ashland VA.
quote:
"...with daily local and national news."


The problem with local news is that TV is either too costly to produce locally exclusive news, or that there's not enough news to justify spending the money.

Face it, the Internet is the best way to produce news. It's quicker, cheaper and more ubiquitous.

Folks can get headlines IM'd or e-mailed, text-messaged to their phones or mobile devices.

Then, they can get the same news served up on the Internet, complete with video.

They can get it sent to their iPods, iTunes and read it when they want, and when it's convenient for them.

Why should someone want to sit in front of a boob-tube and have someone "preach" the news to 'em when they can read it for themselves?

The days of the "big voice" announcer whom pretends to be the voice of authority are over.

If you still feel like you need "daily local and national news," why don't you assemble the local media type folk, form a corporation, and get to doing it?

Just as you wrote, it's not as if there's not enough people in the area to justify not doing it.

However, one thing that we don't know is the cost:return ratio.

Would it be worth it?

There's a public radio station translator from WUAL/WQPR in Tuscaloosa in the area, and I know Pat whom runs the operation at UNA. Talk to her! I know Mark A. Pyle (WFIX owner), talk to him! Talk to Paul Slatton! Talk to the Self family, talk to the (dirtball) Darby's (on second thought, forget the Darby's)... there's an entire host of people with whom one could consult individually and corporately.

Form a not-for-profit, 501(c)3 media consortium and involve all media types (not just "big wheels") in the area.

Spearhead the thing yourself!

Involve UNA's Business School to do a viability study... if it could be done profitably, use the profits to feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the naked, school the uneducated, etc.

Creative thinking, you know...
One problem is that for ratings purposes, the Shoals is included in the Huntsville area, so even if a station had good viewership locally, it would still be low rated compared to the ones in Huntsville. And that's what advertisers look at, so they'll buy from Huntsville instead.

Another problem WOWL had was trying to sell advertising locally when WYLE was giving it away just so they could have something on the air.

They also had some management issues there as well, but no need to go into that. WOWL was a good training ground for a lot of people over the years, and Dick Biddle was a real pioneer in broadcasting.
"Florence is in Huntsville's market."
"...the Shoals is included in the Huntsville area..."

Neither of those claims are accurate. In fact, they are absolutely NOT true.

Florence-Muscle Shoals is it's own Arbitron market, and its own Metropolitan Statistical Area.

Arbitron markets are, in some fashion, based upon the U.S. Census Bureau's MSA designation.

Examine these Arbitron markets, and give consideration in those Radio/TV markets to the similarities and differences.

Florence-Muscle Shoals MSA is ranked 256/297 in Arbitron Markets
Tupelo, MS is 189
For further comparison...
Huntsville is ranked 115
Birmingham, AL is 57
Mobile is 93
Tuscaloosa is 233
Jackson, TN is 288
Nashville, TN is 44
Meridian, MS is 295
Memphis is 49
Columbus-Starkville-West Point, MS is 270

Consider those Arbitron Markets' neighbors.
Tupelo's "next-door" Arbitron neighbors are Odessa-Midland, TX-188, and Johnstown, PA-190.
Florence-Muscle Shoals "next-door" Arbitron neighbors are Monroe, LA-255, and Columbia, MO-257.

In fact, examine the eleven markets in the same ranking above & below Tupelo, MS.
180 Lebanon-Rutland-White River Junction, NH-VT
181 Charleston, WV
182 Lubbock, TX
183 Merced, CA
184 Kalamazoo, MI
185 Cape Cod, MA
186 Green Bay, WI
187 Columbus, GA
188 Odessa-Midland, TX
189 Tupelo, MS
190 Johnstown, PA

Then, examine those around the Florence-Muscle Shoals Arbitron market.
250 Parkersburg-Marietta, WV-OH
251 Waterloo-Cedar Falls, IA
252 Pueblo, CO
253 State College, PA
254 Meadville-Franklin, PA
255 Monroe, LA
256 Florence-Muscle Shoals, AL
257 Columbia, MO
258 Battle Creek, MI
259 Hamptons-Riverhead, NY
260 Billings, MT

Here are the rankings around the Huntsville Arbitron market.
110 Worcester, MA
111 Modesto, CA
112 Augusta, GA
113 Lancaster, PA
114 Portsmouth-Dover-Rochester, NH
115 Huntsville, AL
116 Roanoke-Lynchburg, VA
117 Oxnard-Ventura, CA
118 Santa Rosa, CA
119 Youngstown-Warren, OH
120 Bridgeport, CT

The next nearest market, aside from Huntsville is the Columbus-Starkville-West Point, MS market. Because it's #270, I included a larger neighboring markets share.

260 Billings, MT
261 Wichita Falls, TX
262 Texarkana, TX-AR
263 Grand Junction, CO
264 Altoona, PA
265 Montpelier-Barre-St Johnsbury, VT
266 Augusta-Waterville, ME
267 Valdosta, GA
268 Albany, GA
269 Williamsport, PA
270 Columbus-Starkville-West Point, MS
271 Elkins-Buckhannon-Weston, WV
272 Sioux City, IA
273 Mankato-New Ulm-St Peter, MN
274 Rapid City, SD
275 Harrisonburg, VA
276 Sheboygan, WI
277 Lewiston-Auburn, ME
278 Decatur, IL
279 Bluefi eld, WV
280 Watertown, NY
Someone (forgot name to give credit) mentioned Tupelo, Mississippi. Did any of you happen to catch the documentary the Muscle Shoals Homebuilders Assn. played for awhile right after the Florence City Council meeting? Tupelo's Chamber of Commerce has a number OVER THE FRONT DOOR of the building 1000 new jobs and have met that for something like the last 10 years. What is so different? Well for one thing, Tupelo had a vision. They had a city government which was INVOLVED and cared about the future of the city, folks I remember about 15 years ago I lived in Jackson, Ms. and Tupelo was all but dead. I worked for a communications company and we had 1 store in Tupelo. It was constantly the lowest producer in the State. Look at Tupelo today, for years people in Al have made a joke out of our statistics by saying: Thank God for Mississippi. Tupelo today is so far up the poll they don't even have to say: Thank God for the Shoals, although this area could learn a lot from their model. Wish in one hand, **** in the other is all I can think to end with! THE DOG
quote:
Originally posted by Shoals Lover:
"Florence is in Huntsville's market."
"...the Shoals is included in the Huntsville area..."

Neither of those claims are accurate. In fact, they are absolutely NOT true.

Florence-Muscle Shoals is it's own Arbitron market, and its own Metropolitan Statistical Area.



Ok.
Maybe it's changed since I worked in the business or maybe it was always that way. I just know that back when WOWL was still locally owned, one of the big problems the sales people ran into trying to sell ads was the fact that the Huntsville stations were available in the area as well.
And the advertisers did compare our numbers with the H'ville stations regularly, because they were quick to bring them up. So even if we were in a different MSA, it pretty much got treated like it was all together.

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