Christ taught that one in slavery could best use his limited influence by working with what he had. It's been suggested Paul was extremely aware of the possibility of death for slaves who were found to be Christians; by working from within the system, they stood a better chance of converting others.
Christians are mainly responsible for the elimination of barbaric games in Rome and later slavery in our own country.
i think christians were also mainly responsible for instituting slavery in this country, and for committing genocide and culture annihilation on the natives, too....
quote:Originally posted by hoss gal:
i think christians were also mainly responsible for instituting slavery in this country, and for committing genocide and culture annihilation on the natives, too....
I think Christianity was used as an excuse for land and power grubbers to get more, more, more. I think God is probably pretty disappointed in most people who launch their own agendas in His name.
quote:Originally posted by Basement Cat:quote:Originally posted by hoss gal:
i think christians were also mainly responsible for instituting slavery in this country, and for committing genocide and culture annihilation on the natives, too....
I think Christianity was used as an excuse for land and power grubbers to get more, more, more. I think God is probably pretty disappointed in most people who launch their own agendas in His name.
I've always been a Jimmy Carter fan. I'm no Baptist, so I don't know how much he had to change to do this, as Bill says way back when--why bring it up now?
I do know you can't have it both ways. Either the founding fathers were Christians who supported slavery or deists that supported no religion. Which is it?
i agree that those types probably disappoint him, bc (if he exists).
i only wanted to point out that it's hypocritical for christians to get the credit for eliminating evils and to ignore the fact that they also initiated the same.
i only wanted to point out that it's hypocritical for christians to get the credit for eliminating evils and to ignore the fact that they also initiated the same.
quote:Originally posted by tomfan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShugaPush:
I've always been a Jimmy Carter fan. I'm no Baptist, so I don't know how much he had to change to do this, as Bill says way back when--why bring it up now?
The change is not so much President Carter's, but in the Southern Baptist Convention. I grew up in the Baptist Church; my father was a SBC minister. Subservience of women in the home or in the church was not the denomination's position then.
I believe it was brought up now because it has recently been widely reported, in some cases as current news. However, CBS News, for one, accurately stated:
"Former President Jimmy Carter is getting some attention for recently reiterating his separation from the Southern Baptist Convention due to gender discrimination."
quote:Originally posted by Dill Pickle:
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. (Philippians 2:3)
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; (Colossians 3:12)
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. (Romans 12:16)
Beternu, I do not know you personally, but is not the very essence of your forum persona a blatant contradiction of the type of person that NT scripture instructs each of us to strive to become? The above examples are but a few of many... Surely, a man of your advanced learning and biblical knowledge has not chosen to "liberalize" himself to the point of deeming humbleness of mind and humility obsolete in these modern times?
Answer: NO. No contradiction here. I take you to be one of those persons who takes forums of this kind all too seriously. To imply that a person's "persona," as he or she goes about daily life activities, can be inferred from the manner in which that person debates matters on an online forum is really a stretch.
quote:Originally posted by ShugaPush:
I do know you can't have it both ways. Either the founding fathers were Christians who supported slavery or deists that supported no religion. Which is it?
Most were certainyl not "Christians" as we define them today. Jefferson made it very clear that he believed Jesus was a wonderful man but dismissed all his supernatural powers.
So, I guess they were deists (or atheists) who owned slaves.
tomfan writes:
TF, do you think certain churches are engaged in some sort of competition to out-fundamentalize each other? Say, in the last 30 years or so?
Take evolution, for example. Sure, we had the Scopes trial back in the 20's, but then we kinda got over it, and in the Space Age 60's, Creationism was rather embarrassing. Now, it's all the rage. Or is my impression on this wrong?
DF
quote:Subservience of women in the home or in the church was not the denomination's position then.
TF, do you think certain churches are engaged in some sort of competition to out-fundamentalize each other? Say, in the last 30 years or so?
Take evolution, for example. Sure, we had the Scopes trial back in the 20's, but then we kinda got over it, and in the Space Age 60's, Creationism was rather embarrassing. Now, it's all the rage. Or is my impression on this wrong?
DF
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
TF, do you think certain churches are engaged in some sort of competition to out-fundamentalize each other? Say, in the last 30 years or so?
DF
DF , I suspect that question will bring howls of protest, but yes.
Let 'em howl!
DF
DF
Maybe it's in response to the crap state of affairs our society is in now.
haha! like that tagline, zip!
Got a wee bit bored. Changed my graphic to one of my PG rated buttons, and what the heck, why not my tagline, as well?
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Take evolution, for example. Sure, we had the Scopes trial back in the 20's, but then we kinda got over it, and in the Space Age 60's, Creationism was rather embarrassing. Now, it's all the rage. Or is my impression on this wrong? DF
YES, YOUR IMPRESSION OF ANYTHING SPIRITUAL, INCLUDING CREATIONISM, IS WRONG!
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I'm awfully glad you think so, bill.
DF
DF
I didn't come from no monkey!
Double negative?
It would appear that coming from a monkey is a criterion for speaking good English.
I just had a banana. Hmmm.
quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:
I think if you told DF he was going to HELL he would try to call ahead and make reservations....
Will you and Bill be in Heaven? Reserve me a room near the fire.
DF
...room near the fire...? I think you already have that one covered big guy...
quote:Originally posted by SHELDIVR:quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:
I think if you told DF he was going to HELL he would try to call ahead and make reservations....
Will you and Bill be in Heaven? Reserve me a room near the fire. DF
...room near the fire...? I think you already have that one covered big guy...
Hi Shel,
So true; but, Deep still has time to change his reservations. There are still seats available on the Glory Train. But, he will have to make advance reservations -- before that last breath.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
I just had a banana. Hmmm.
I'll alert the media....
quote:Originally posted by Jankinonya:quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
I just had a banana. Hmmm.
I'll alert the media....
Hi Jan,
Alert the media? Has the Missing Link finally been found -- eating a banana?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:So true; but, Deep still has time to change his reservations. There are still seats available on the Glory Train. But, he will have to make advance reservations -- before that last breath.
Yes, DF, there IS still time to change those reservations. So come on and take a....
Free Ride
WIP,
Thanks for the link!
I won't be swindled! Albino fake products!
DF
Rick Derringer owes me money.
Thanks for the link!
I won't be swindled! Albino fake products!
DF
Rick Derringer owes me money.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by SHELDIVR:quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:quote:
I think if you told DF he was going to HELL he would try to call ahead and make reservations....
Will you and Bill be in Heaven? Reserve me a room near the fire. DF
...room near the fire...? I think you already have that one covered big guy...
Hi Shel,
So true; but, Deep still has time to change his reservations. There are still seats available on the Glory Train. But, he will have to make advance reservations -- before that last breath.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Bill, I knew a man whose life style would make DF look like a saint, but within three weeks of his death he became fully acquainted with the Gospel, made friends with a preacher, confessed the name of Christ and was baptized in his bath tub. Hmmmmmmmm....I'm not real sure about that conversion...maybe a fear factor...or like coming in on a wing and a prayer.
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
Oh my gawd. . . another regurgitation from the Evangelical Handbook.
Has their ever been a person of superior intelligence and reason who hasn't found Jeezzus on his/her deathbed--according to evangelicals? Remember David Hume and Charles Darwin? Stories abound about their deathbed conversion but they all have proven to be false, just as with every other thinker.
Nothing can make a person of reason superstitious--even on their deathbed.
Come up with a new bit of nonsense to parrot.
quote:Bill, I knew a man whose life style would make DF look like a saint, but within three weeks of his death he became fully acquainted with the Gospel, made friends with a preacher, confessed the name of Christ and was baptized in his bath tub. Hmmmmmmmm....I'm not real sure about that conversion...maybe a fear factor...or like coming in on a wing and a prayer.
Oh my gawd. . . another regurgitation from the Evangelical Handbook.
Has their ever been a person of superior intelligence and reason who hasn't found Jeezzus on his/her deathbed--according to evangelicals? Remember David Hume and Charles Darwin? Stories abound about their deathbed conversion but they all have proven to be false, just as with every other thinker.
Nothing can make a person of reason superstitious--even on their deathbed.
Come up with a new bit of nonsense to parrot.
Hey, wait.
I am a saint.
DF
I am a saint.
DF
I'm feeling faint
You have a taint
A christian you ain't
Your move.
You have a taint
A christian you ain't
Your move.
Your knowledge is lacking
I'm spotless, you see
Original Sin
Has no meaning to me.
DF
I'm spotless, you see
Original Sin
Has no meaning to me.
DF
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFat:
Your knowledge is lacking
I'm spotless, you see
Original Sin
Has no meaning to me.
BURMA SHAVE...
Your knowledge is lacking
I'm spotless, you see
Original Sin
Has no meaning to me.
BURMA SHAVE...
quote:Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:quote:Bill, I knew a man whose life style would make DF look like a saint, but within three weeks of his death he became fully acquainted with the Gospel, made friends with a preacher, confessed the name of Christ and was baptized in his bath tub. Hmmmmmmmm....I'm not real sure about that conversion...maybe a fear factor...or like coming in on a wing and a prayer.
Oh my gawd. . . another regurgitation from the Evangelical Handbook.
Has their ever been a person of superior intelligence and reason who hasn't found Jeezzus on his/her deathbed--according to evangelicals? Remember David Hume and Charles Darwin? Stories abound about their deathbed conversion but they all have proven to be false, just as with every other thinker.
Nothing can make a person of reason superstitious--even on their deathbed.
Come up with a new bit of nonsense to parrot.
David, just before the time expires on your meter, give us a shout back and tell us if you are still holding to this position. Just remember, you are going to live forever and you get to decide where.
...and Satan was an angel before an adversary.quote:Originally posted by DeepFat:
Hey, wait.
I am a saint.
DF
Pride goes before a fall...
quote:Just remember, you are going to live forever and you get to decide where.
Hobe Sound, Florida
Saint, Shel, I tell ya.
Give, give give, always giving, never taking, that's me. I'm a giver.
Saint Giver.
SG
Give, give give, always giving, never taking, that's me. I'm a giver.
Saint Giver.
SG
Hi Shel,
You tell me, "Bill, I knew a man whose life style would make Deep look like a saint. But within three weeks of his death he became fully acquainted with the Gospel, made friends with a preacher, confessed the name of Christ and was baptized in his bath tub. Hmmmmmmmm....I'm not real sure about that conversion...maybe a fear factor...or like coming in on a wing and a prayer."
Yes, some fear could have been involved; fear that he would die before he could ask Jesus Christ to be his Lord and Savior. We cannot know the heart of that man. And, it is not up to us to judge whether this man was sincere in his salvation or not. That is totally between him and Jesus Christ. All you and I can do is to share the Gospel with such people; plant the seeds of salvation -- and pray that the ground is fertile and that the person is open to the works of the Holy Spirit within him.
The pastor who led me to the Lord in 1987, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, told us the story of a man he met at his first church in Southern California. Pastor Sam had recently come from the Philippines and was an associate pastor at a Baptist church in Santa Ana, California. The church was in a neighborhood with insufficient parking; so, folks would park on the streets.
One man in the neighborhood, an older man, would get angry and curse at the people parking on the street in front of his home. Wanting to improve their relationship with this gentleman; Pastor Sam went to visit him. As you might imagine, the initial meeting was not really warm and cordial. However, Pastor Sam is a very patient, a very loving man. That Godly love which he shows to everyone -- is what kept me coming back to church and Bible study for six months -- and what led me to being saved.
Since the man was often out in his yard working, Pastor Sam would walk over and visit with him; not evangelizing or preaching -- just visiting and spending time with the man. This went on for a number of weeks, maybe months. And, they became friends.
On one visit, Pastor Sam did share about Jesus with the man; and on subsequent visits, he continued to share with him. Then, Pastor Sam asked the man if he would like to receive Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior -- and the man said, "Yes."
He prayed with the man, leading him in the sinner's prayer of repentance, confession, and forgiveness.
He did not see the man in his yard for about a week; so, Pastor Sam walked over and knocked on the door. He was told that the man had died. But, because of Pastor Sam's patience and love; the man died as a child of God, saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. One day Pastor Sam will once again walk and talk with this man -- in heaven. What a glorious reunion that will be.
But, what would have happened to that man if Pastor Sam had not looked past his gruff nature, had not looked past his cursing and swearing at church members -- and looked into his heart to become his friend? He would most likely have been lost for eternity.
Shel, that is what all Christian believers are called to do -- keep planting seeds, sharing the Gospel, and telling folks about Jesus Christ -- loving people to Jesus Christ.
And, yes, the person who becomes a believer just before his last breath -- is just as saved as a person who has been saved for seventy years. Of course, the danger of this is -- one never knows when that last breath will occur. One might be the very picture of health; strong, robust, full of life. And, one minute later, drop dead of a heart attack.
Look at Jim Fixx, the author of the 1977 best-selling book, "The Complete Book of Running." He was credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running, and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging. Fixx died at the age of 52 of a fulminant heart attack, after his daily run. Who would have suspected it? Fixx certainly did not expect to drop dead.
Or, take the case of a person, young and healthy -- killed in an automobile accident. One moment alive and healthy -- the next moment -- dead.
No, we are never assured of that next breath; so, why gamble our eternal soul on the belief that we will have one more breath?
The best time to turn and follow Jesus Christ is RIGHT NOW! Then, one need not worry when that last breath will occur; for the next breath will be in heaven with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
So, Shel, for this man you knew who died; praise God that he was saved at the last minute. Let's look for him in heaven when we get there.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
You tell me, "Bill, I knew a man whose life style would make Deep look like a saint. But within three weeks of his death he became fully acquainted with the Gospel, made friends with a preacher, confessed the name of Christ and was baptized in his bath tub. Hmmmmmmmm....I'm not real sure about that conversion...maybe a fear factor...or like coming in on a wing and a prayer."
Yes, some fear could have been involved; fear that he would die before he could ask Jesus Christ to be his Lord and Savior. We cannot know the heart of that man. And, it is not up to us to judge whether this man was sincere in his salvation or not. That is totally between him and Jesus Christ. All you and I can do is to share the Gospel with such people; plant the seeds of salvation -- and pray that the ground is fertile and that the person is open to the works of the Holy Spirit within him.
The pastor who led me to the Lord in 1987, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, told us the story of a man he met at his first church in Southern California. Pastor Sam had recently come from the Philippines and was an associate pastor at a Baptist church in Santa Ana, California. The church was in a neighborhood with insufficient parking; so, folks would park on the streets.
One man in the neighborhood, an older man, would get angry and curse at the people parking on the street in front of his home. Wanting to improve their relationship with this gentleman; Pastor Sam went to visit him. As you might imagine, the initial meeting was not really warm and cordial. However, Pastor Sam is a very patient, a very loving man. That Godly love which he shows to everyone -- is what kept me coming back to church and Bible study for six months -- and what led me to being saved.
Since the man was often out in his yard working, Pastor Sam would walk over and visit with him; not evangelizing or preaching -- just visiting and spending time with the man. This went on for a number of weeks, maybe months. And, they became friends.
On one visit, Pastor Sam did share about Jesus with the man; and on subsequent visits, he continued to share with him. Then, Pastor Sam asked the man if he would like to receive Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior -- and the man said, "Yes."
He prayed with the man, leading him in the sinner's prayer of repentance, confession, and forgiveness.
He did not see the man in his yard for about a week; so, Pastor Sam walked over and knocked on the door. He was told that the man had died. But, because of Pastor Sam's patience and love; the man died as a child of God, saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. One day Pastor Sam will once again walk and talk with this man -- in heaven. What a glorious reunion that will be.
But, what would have happened to that man if Pastor Sam had not looked past his gruff nature, had not looked past his cursing and swearing at church members -- and looked into his heart to become his friend? He would most likely have been lost for eternity.
Shel, that is what all Christian believers are called to do -- keep planting seeds, sharing the Gospel, and telling folks about Jesus Christ -- loving people to Jesus Christ.
And, yes, the person who becomes a believer just before his last breath -- is just as saved as a person who has been saved for seventy years. Of course, the danger of this is -- one never knows when that last breath will occur. One might be the very picture of health; strong, robust, full of life. And, one minute later, drop dead of a heart attack.
Look at Jim Fixx, the author of the 1977 best-selling book, "The Complete Book of Running." He was credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running, and demonstrating the health benefits of regular jogging. Fixx died at the age of 52 of a fulminant heart attack, after his daily run. Who would have suspected it? Fixx certainly did not expect to drop dead.
Or, take the case of a person, young and healthy -- killed in an automobile accident. One moment alive and healthy -- the next moment -- dead.
No, we are never assured of that next breath; so, why gamble our eternal soul on the belief that we will have one more breath?
The best time to turn and follow Jesus Christ is RIGHT NOW! Then, one need not worry when that last breath will occur; for the next breath will be in heaven with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
So, Shel, for this man you knew who died; praise God that he was saved at the last minute. Let's look for him in heaven when we get there.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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One of the obvious questions is manifested by Shel's statement. Assume someone is venal; evil, even, through his entire life. Lie, cheat, womanize, do all manner of evil. Yet on his deathbed, moments before he stops, he suddenly says the sinner's prayer. He goes to Heaven, simply because of what amounts to an incantation.
Yet someone who has never had the opportunity to even hear of Christ is consigned to hell.
This seeming contradiction is something that christians have never seemed to fully come to grips with.
Enlightenment requested.
Yet someone who has never had the opportunity to even hear of Christ is consigned to hell.
This seeming contradiction is something that christians have never seemed to fully come to grips with.
Enlightenment requested.
Hi Zip,
I am surprised, since you tell me that you do attend a Bible study (I am assuming this is a regular weekly Bible study), that you do not know the answers to both these questions. Both are found in Scripture.
You ask, "One of the obvious questions is manifested by Shel's statement. Assume someone is venal; evil, even, through his entire life. Lie, cheat, womanize, do all manner of evil. Yet on his deathbed, moments before he stops, he suddenly says the sinner's prayer. He goes to Heaven, simply because of what amounts to an incantation."
First, let me ask you: since you do not believe that a person is saved by sincerely praying the sinner's prayer -- please tell us how, in your church, in your belief, is a person saved? What do you believe a person must do to be saved?
In Matthew 20:1-16, Jesus tells the parable of the householder who hired laborers to work in his vineyards. Some he hired early in the day; others he hired in the late evening. At the end of the work day, he paid both the same wages. The same applies to the people who receive forgiveness and salvation on their death bed; their salvation is just as valid as yours or mine.
However, the danger is waiting to seek salvation at the last moment is that we never know when that last breath will occur. If the person delays his salvation -- and his last breath comes unexpectedly; he has lost his salvation for eternity. So, a word to the wise -- do not delay such an important decision.
Then, Zip, you tell us, "Yet someone who has never had the opportunity to even hear of Christ is consigned to hell."
Where did you ever get that idea? Certainly not from the Bible; for we are told in Romans 2:14-16, "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my Gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."
Basically, this is saying that God has made a provision for those folks who will not hear the Gospel or know of Jesus Christ. Yes, sir, He is a pretty smart God -- covers all the bases.
Finally, Zip, you tell us, "This seeming contradiction is something that christians have never seemed to fully come to grips with."
I notice that you follow suit with your mentor, Deep, in not capitalizing the name of Jesus Christ, i.e., Christian. Too bad you have chosen to walk with the wrong crowd.
As you can see, there is no contradiction, which your comments want to imply -- only a lack of Bible knowledge on your part. What do you study in those Bible studies you attend? In the Corona/Riverside area, we have great Friday Night Bible Studies. We would love for you to join in our Bible studies. We cover these types of questions, and many more seemingly hard questions, with no problems. Maybe you and Deep can car pool and join us one Friday night.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
I am surprised, since you tell me that you do attend a Bible study (I am assuming this is a regular weekly Bible study), that you do not know the answers to both these questions. Both are found in Scripture.
You ask, "One of the obvious questions is manifested by Shel's statement. Assume someone is venal; evil, even, through his entire life. Lie, cheat, womanize, do all manner of evil. Yet on his deathbed, moments before he stops, he suddenly says the sinner's prayer. He goes to Heaven, simply because of what amounts to an incantation."
First, let me ask you: since you do not believe that a person is saved by sincerely praying the sinner's prayer -- please tell us how, in your church, in your belief, is a person saved? What do you believe a person must do to be saved?
In Matthew 20:1-16, Jesus tells the parable of the householder who hired laborers to work in his vineyards. Some he hired early in the day; others he hired in the late evening. At the end of the work day, he paid both the same wages. The same applies to the people who receive forgiveness and salvation on their death bed; their salvation is just as valid as yours or mine.
However, the danger is waiting to seek salvation at the last moment is that we never know when that last breath will occur. If the person delays his salvation -- and his last breath comes unexpectedly; he has lost his salvation for eternity. So, a word to the wise -- do not delay such an important decision.
Then, Zip, you tell us, "Yet someone who has never had the opportunity to even hear of Christ is consigned to hell."
Where did you ever get that idea? Certainly not from the Bible; for we are told in Romans 2:14-16, "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my Gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."
Basically, this is saying that God has made a provision for those folks who will not hear the Gospel or know of Jesus Christ. Yes, sir, He is a pretty smart God -- covers all the bases.
Finally, Zip, you tell us, "This seeming contradiction is something that christians have never seemed to fully come to grips with."
I notice that you follow suit with your mentor, Deep, in not capitalizing the name of Jesus Christ, i.e., Christian. Too bad you have chosen to walk with the wrong crowd.
As you can see, there is no contradiction, which your comments want to imply -- only a lack of Bible knowledge on your part. What do you study in those Bible studies you attend? In the Corona/Riverside area, we have great Friday Night Bible Studies. We would love for you to join in our Bible studies. We cover these types of questions, and many more seemingly hard questions, with no problems. Maybe you and Deep can car pool and join us one Friday night.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Enlightenment requested.
Zip, You have opened a can of worms. Simply put, the Bible promotes an irrational system of ethics. There can be no rational for rewarding a person who pays lip service to a deity on the deathbed while punishing a good person for failing to accept a particular deity as lord and savior.
The primary concern of the OT is the unquestioned, obedient worship of God (by whatever name). The uncivilized, unethical behavior of God’s chosen people is overlooked and even praised. The Hebrews were able to carry out their rape and pillage with impunity because they worshiped God while their enemies, who may have been innocent of any wrong-doing, worshiped other gods--check The Book of Joshua.
The most important message of the NT is to worship God and accept Christ as lord and savior. Believers are told to love Christ more than their families and to lay down their life for Christ. There is no reason given for this total adulation of God and Christ. God and Christ demand it, and they must be unquestionably obeyed--again without reason. To fail to do so is the worst of “sins.” It doesn’t matter that the NT provides no evidence that this unquestioned adulation in anyway improves the individual or the society.
This distorted system of ethics dictates that the obedient no matter how detestable shall receive divine reward and those failing to unquestionably obey their lord and master will receive unmerciful punishment regardless of their innate goodness.
It's two simple equations:
Obedience - good behavior = Heaven
Ignoring God and Christ + good behavior = Hell.
It is just part part of the absurd ethos that another being can atone for your transgressions.