We all have a connection to the universe in which we live. My own, exceedingly small personal connection to this video is that I can see the Mt. Wilson observatory from my kitchen window.

How lucky we are to be alive at this moment in time. Our grandparents had no idea of the magnitude of the universe, we do. Our parents, and their emphasis on science made it possible for us to finally understand where we sit in the cosmic tapestry.

The enormousness of it all is too much for a human brain, mired in middle scale thinking, to comprehend. But we can imagine what it is like to comprehend the scale and majesty of the Universe. That's about the best we can do.

Link

But we can imagine it. We, the lucky few, we band of human animals alive right now, are the first to know where we sit in the Universe. Only a few hundred years ago, the Universe was very small, and we sat exactly in the center of it.

We were not fools for believing so, we just did not know better. Now, we do. Finally. And it is our generation that has made this discovery.

It's good to be a human in 2009 CE. Our predecessors successors (oops) will envy us, and with good reason.

Gone and obsolete are the ancient superstitions about the nature of the Universe. Gone and done in our lifetimes. We simply know better now.

And what small, provincial superstitions they were. What narcissistic, solipsistic myths we hubristic humans believed until now. "Life" and "intelligence" are just a few of the qualities of the Universe. We do not know of other qualities of it yet. We do assume, in our ignorance, that these are necessary properties of advanced development elsewhere. Perhaps we have no idea. Likely, we have no idea.

Now, we have the curiosity to imagine, to seek, to explore, to examine in the light of real knowledge what might be out there. And there is so much "out there" to be considered.

How lucky are we? Would you prefer to be alive in any other time? There is no answer to those questions, but I am very glad to be alive now, when so much of the natural universe is being discovered.

To quote the immortal Randy Newman, in his song "Short People": It's a wonderful world.


DF
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Original Post
Hi Deep,

That video is very interesting; I enjoyed it. Watching this video, I was overwhelmed by the awesome power of our omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God. To imagine the magnitude of the universe -- and to realize the God created all of this -- in only six days. Wow! That is mind blowing.

Deep, I sincerely believe this video should be shown in all our schools. However, it should be shown with no preset bias, no preconditioning of the students -- neither by Secular Evolutionists nor by Christian Creationists. Just allow the students to view it with the only bias being their own minds. As a Christian, I welcome this. How about you? Can you accept this being shown in schools -- WITHOUT preset bias being introduced before the showing -- or after the showing?

Can you accept this video being shown in our schools -- and afterwards, having an open discussion, led by the students themselves? And, allowing both secularist and Christian students to freely, openly voice their views, their opinions of what they believe this video is teaching?

Unfortunately, regardless of what you and I say; the extremely liberal, secularist school administrators will never allow this to happen. Why? Because they know that, left to their own unbiased, no preconditioning, thoughts -- many, if not most, would be like me, thinking, "Wow, what an awesome God we serve!"

Thank you for introducing the video.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Reject superstition. Reject "revealed" knowledge from ancient, dishonorable sources.

Embrace real knowledge.

The time has come.


DF
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Reject superstition. Reject "revealed" knowledge from ancient, dishonorable sources. Embrace real knowledge. The time has come.DF

Hi Deep,

Once again, I offer you an honest suggestion -- and all you can do is to respond with canned atheist mantras. It is so sad that you cannot think beyond your "Dawkinesque" mantras.

And, this is the level of thinking you and other atheists want to have force-fed to our children in school? I can just envision it now: Don't talk about God -- teach them "Dawkinesque" mantras. This will sustain them throughout life. Give me a break!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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HOLD ON A SEC!!!!!!
If the earth is only 7000 years old or so, how in the heck do we see stars that are a billion light years away????????? Somebodies math is fuzzy!
quote:
We all have a connection to the universe in which we live. My own, exceedingly small personal connection to this video is that I can see the Mt. Wilson observatory from my kitchen window.

How lucky we are to be alive at this moment in time. Our grandparents had no idea of the magnitude of the universe, we do. Our parents, and their emphasis on science made it possible for us to finally understand where we sit in the cosmic tapestry.

The enormousness of it all is too much for a human brain, mired in middle scale thinking, to comprehend. But we can imagine what it is like to comprehend the scale and majesty of the Universe. That's about the best we can do.

Link

But we can imagine it. We, the lucky few, we band of human animals alive right now, are the first to know where we sit in the Universe. Only a few hundred years ago, the Universe was very small, and we sat exactly in the center of it.

We were not fools for believing so, we just did not know better. Now, we do. Finally. And it is our generation that has made this discovery.

It's good to be a human in 2009 CE. Our predecessors will envy us, and with good reason.

Gone and obsolete are the ancient superstitions about the nature of the Universe. Gone and done in our lifetimes. We simply know better now.

And what small, provincial superstitions they were. What narcissistic, solipsistic myths we hubristic humans believed until now. "Life" and "intelligence" are just a few of the qualities of the Universe. We do not know of other qualities of it yet. We do assume, in our ignorance, that these are necessary properties of advanced development elsewhere. Perhaps we have no idea. Likely, we have no idea.

Now, we have the curiosity to imagine, to seek, to explore, to examine in the light of real knowledge what might be out there. And there is so much "out there" to be considered.

How lucky are we? Would you prefer to be alive in any other time? There is no answer to those questions, but I am very glad to be alive now, when so much of the natural universe is being discovered.

To quote the immortal Randy Newman, in his song "Short People": It's a wonderful world.


Um, does this mean you didn't give a tithe at church today? Big Grin
I'm still trying to figure where all that stuff was before 7 billion years ago??? Also, what's on the other side. Yea, modern so called scientist have so many answers, but too few questions. (I know Fat, that doesn't make sense to you. Keep thinking real hard, and maybe you'll get it Wink )
"so called scientists"?

"All the answers"?

My dear sir, it is the religious community that has all the answers.

As for questions, every discovery suggests several more questions. We have finally figured out how to answer many of them. Some of them remain outside our capability to answer, at least for the moment.

But we know what we know, and that's impressive.

As if I didn't know the answer to this, I'll ask anyway. Smooth, why do you detest knowledge?


DF
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
I'm still trying to figure where all that stuff was before 7 billion years ago?


13.5 billion, actually.

The answer is, we don't know. Lots of hypotheses but we don't know. There are many who think we are on the verge of answering that very question, though.
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
I'm still trying to figure where all that stuff was before 7 billion years ago???


If you go with the literal biblical six-day creation paradigm, where was it then?
quote:
Originally posted by PapaTim00:
HOLD ON A SEC!!!!!!
If the earth is only 7000 years old or so, how in the heck do we see stars that are a billion light years away????????? Somebodies math is fuzzy!

Hi Tim,

How were Adam and Eve created as mature adults? We serve an awesome God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
hahahahahaha.


Somebody's math is imaginary.

DF


Yes the math is fuzzy, as well as is science. The 7000 year earth theroy is fuzzy too, you will find no where in the bible that states the earth is only 7000 years old. That number is a product of man just as is the earth being millions of years old.

To argue such matters proves nothing because nothing can be proved by it. And while respecting everyone's opinion I respectfully disagee. Science admits that it's numbers could be off by millions of years and carbon dating is fairly accurate for only about 5000 years, everything after that is well...... AWAG.

If you want proof of God's existance through science you will never find it, the wonders of creation itself should be enough but I realize that for some it is not, so be it, what you belive is your business; I dont' care because it's not in my power to convience anyone of anything.

cheers
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
They weren't, Bill, and the universe was not created in six days only 6000 years ago.

Hi Crusty,

Then, if Adam and Eve were not created as mature adults; then, were they born? Is so, who were their parents? And, how did their parents come to be?

Were the parents of Adam and Eve created as mature adults? If not, who were their parents?

You see, Crusty, I'm not sure about your church (You do attend church, don't you? How else can you be such an authority on God and the Bible?) -- but, in my church, in my Christianity, it all began with God.

He created a man and a woman. We call them Adam and Eve; what does your church call them?

These are my ancestors. Your's might be some lifeless cell floating in a primordial swamp; but, I will accept Adam and Eve as my first ancestors. And, yes, God created them as mature adults.

My Friend, you do need to start attending Sunday School again; you've been away far too long.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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In all the universe, in all the sciences, in all of everything there is only one thing that is perfect. That is math. And its very simple math that tells you that if a star is a billion light years away it would take a billion years for its light to reach us. That is easier math than 2+2.
quote:
Originally posted by PapaTim00:
And its very simple math that tells you that if a star is a billion light years away it would take a billion years for its light to reach us. That is easier math than 2+2.



Not for a grown man whose intellect has been lobotomized by his religion. In their world, 2+2 equals whatever their imaginary friend says it equals.
I'm in the mood to play along with you today, Bill. So here goes:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
They weren't, Bill, and the universe was not created in six days only 6000 years ago.

Hi Crusty,

Let's first begin by understanding that Adam and Eve are characters in a story, so they aren't really real, at least not in the way they are betrayed [pun intended] in the Bible. There is in fact an "Eve" that is the mother of modern man, but she certainly wasn't one of a kind. In order to understand any of it (and I don't claim to be an expert) you have to take off your religious blinders, and at least try to understand evolution.

Then, if Adam and Eve were not created as mature adults; then, were they born?

Yes, they were born.

Is so, who were their parents?

Who knows?

And, how did their parents come to be?

Through a process we have come to call "evolution".

Were the parents of Adam and Eve created as mature adults?

No. In fact, no life was ever "created" as a "mature adult".

If not, who were their parents?

Ultimately lesser, and lesser evolved beings.

You see, Crusty, I'm not sure about your church

Just to help you out, what church I belong to has nothing whatsoever to do with the "creation" of life, or with any matter of science. It has nothing at all to do with this discusssion.

(You do attend church, don't you?

Bill, your memory is slipping again. But, I'll play along, and repeat for the umpteenth time, I don't attend church. I don't require a bureaucracy to commune with God.

How else can you be such an authority on God and the Bible?)

I don't claim to be an authority on God and the Bible. I do have some understanding of science, I have read the Bible, I've even had some formal education with regard to the scriptures and the historical ramifications of Christianity.

-- but, in my church, in my Christianity, it all began with God.

I can agree with the idea that it all began with God. After that, you place limitations on God, turn him into a magician, minimize Him so that he can fit into your closed mind, and distort Him so that you can hate other people, other Christians, and other religions. Your church is the Church of Jesus Loves Me, But Hates Your Guts. I don't belong to that church.

He created a man and a woman.

There is every possibility that He created the universe, but the verdict is still out. What we do know is that He didn't create the universe 6000 years ago, that the earth IS round, and ISN'T the center of the universe, that life began evolving billions of years ago.

We call them Adam and Eve; what does your church call them?

You win the stupid question of the day award. Again.

These are my ancestors.

They aren't. There is every probability (an almost certainty) that an African "Eve" is your oldest known ancestor. She lived much longer ago than 6000 years.

Your's might be some lifeless cell floating in a primordial swamp;

As is yours.

but, I will accept Adam and Eve as my first ancestors.

And you will be wrong. And you will be limiting your god to magic tricks.

And, yes, God created them as mature adults.

And you will be wrong, once again.

My Friend, you do need to start attending Sunday School again; you've been away far too long.

Thanky for your concern, but fortunately the Sunday School I attended, when I attended, didn't teach this drivel. It taught that God wanted us to love our neighbors, and that knowledge is a gift.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Have a blissed day.
Bill
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
"so called scientists"?

"All the answers"?

My dear sir, it is the religious community that has all the answers.

As for questions, every discovery suggests several more questions. We have finally figured out how to answer many of them. Some of them remain outside our capability to answer, at least for the moment.

But we know what we know, and that's impressive.

As if I didn't know the answer to this, I'll ask anyway. Smooth, why do you detest knowledge?


DF


I don't detest knowledge. I do detest speculation being passed off as knowledge. All I want is a little honesty. I have stated that I believe in God, and in Jesus Christ His Son. I cannot prove His existence, but I believe by faith. There is no pretension that I can prove any of my beliefs by the scientific method, but I do claim that my beliefs cannot be disproved either. (you in fact have admitted this much in an earlier thread) What really irks me is how you and others state your beliefs as absolute fact when they are absolutely not fact. I do care that you don't believe the way I do, but it is because I do care...about you. The only reason you care about what I believe is that you can't stand the thought that you might be wrong. You purposefully come to a "religion" forum to attack those who might believe, and to ridicule those who dare stand up to you. I have a lot of respect for you in quite a few regards, but you disappoint me with your dishonesty of scientific facts. Just for the record, so does the National Geographic, but I still love the magazine.
Last edited by Smooth operator
smooth, do you believe the earth is only 6000 years old?
That is easily disproven with archealogical evidence, or by the above discussion pertaining to the speed of light.

Do you believe in evolution?
If not, why? Not only is it a theory but there are scientific laws pertaining to it.

Do you believe that in all the world, that God would pick a nomadic tribe of warriors that killed women and children on a regular basis to be his chosen people?
if so why? Why not a peaceful tribe? why not a tribe that could use divine intervention against the murderous tribes?

Do you believe that an omnipotent, all knowing god would create two of EVERY animal, but when he made man he wouldn't think to make the female also?

If so, how all knowing can he be?
In all fairness to the literalists, I must say that while making keen observations on the fact the earth is a continuing work of creation and not suddenly formed, as well as addressing the basic interconnected nature of all living humans from a psycho-anthropological sense, the entire story is not really much profound than Pandora's Box when addressing human nature.
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Be careful, Crusty. We might just see another thread.


And the fun would just keep on goin'.

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