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Human beings are intelligent and psychologically rich animals. We have much potential which we can either use, misuse or squander. There can be far reaching ramifications both in our mental lives and in our interactions with others when we take on a huge belief system such as Christianity. Many of us who are bought up to believe that Christianity is what the universe is all about end up taking our religious beliefs most ardently, basing our personal, interpersonal and sometimes professional lives on this. It makes a big difference to our lives if Christianity is mistaken and we take it as very seriously true. It is therefore worth examining our beliefs. Some of us take up this challenge, or are forced into it by noticing difficulties with the claims of Christianity. We notice problems, think, read and often come to a startling conclusion.

There are many reasons why people leave Christianity, but the most common reason for a very serious Christian to leave is through research. Ironically this often happens when research is carried out in order be a better exponent of Christianity. This happens to apologists, theologians, missionaries, ministers, fundamentalists and liberals. The broad spectrum from professional to lay Christian of all Christian types. The deconversion experience is one of the most dramatic transforming experiences that can happen to a religious person for which there is no "exit counselling" from the church.

Where does one go with such a life changing discovery? Our Christian friends do not want to look that deeply into our lives, preferring only to coach us back to Christianity, believing we must be mistaken. Often they condemn us as hell-bound for "turning our backs on Christ," rather than facing the possibility that we have just found that the Christian belief system is untenable. The Internet is one of the few places where those who leave Christianity can turn easily for help and find people who have already been through this leaving process. Often new deconverts feel that they are in a very lonely situation as there is nobody around who will sympathetically listen to their thoughts. Therefore it can be a great thrill and relief to find others with similar stories to tell. So what is it like to leave?

Some quietly slip out of their religious beliefs without much fuss.

There are many though, who were previously strongly convinced that their religion is utter reality. It is highly revealing to listen to those who have had experience into and out of Christianity and are in a position to know and authoritatively evaluate and relate their actual experiences. Deconversion for such people, although sometimes initially very emotional or traumatic, comes as a revelation far more spiritually enriching than conversions into religion. In the stories scattered over the Internet and in books ex-Christians have repeatedly said this enrichment of life is the case. In our modern age with ease of access to information many of us are still bought up to believe the unexamined religion of our culture. It is not routine at church or school to research the historical claims of Christianity or to critically examine its dogmas. The fact that this examination has even occurred is rarely known, neither is the extent of the criticism appreciated.

What percentage of Christians have done their "extra-Christian homework" and have well thumbed critical books on their bookshelves? Most study is devotional or inclined towards "what is God saying here?" Indeed, most Christians are surrounded by other Christians, seldom in an environment promoting critical examination of beliefs. It is usually left to the personal research of the curious amongst us, or the chance discovery of a student of religion to stumble across the historical, psychological, philosophical, anthropological and sociological problems of Christianity. This research, although often very long and arduous, can still come as a shock to the highly religious. As mentioned, some do find their discoveries hard to cope with initially, although this is rarer than might be thought. Unfortunately, if ones closest friends and relatives are very religious then not being a Christian can cause problems in the family and amongst peers. We often hear how Christians claim high standards for "family values" and yet, especially amongst more fundamentalist Christians, ex-Christian family members who "come out" are not only shunned but are even told that they will go to hell. Belief in the justice of unrelenting torture for your family is not a way to bring family unity. Also Christians seldom do justice to the possibility of what we have read, thought and discovered, merely claiming we can't have been "true Christians" or asking "where did you go wrong?"

It is a common misapprehension to claim that those who leave Christianity never understood what Christianity was "really about." The full range of Christian types leave Christianity, from all denominations, doctrines, and persuasions. From the most liberal to the most fundamentalist. The philosophical liberal, the conservative orthodox, the born-again and the hyper-charismatic fundie. Christianity was once the centre of the universe for the many former Christians who lived it, thought it, felt it, preached it, discussed it, prayed privately and publicly, led religious groups and been thanked for encouraging other Christians and helping them in their "walk with Christ." Certainly if we were not "true Christians" then our fellow Christians were not able to judge a tree by its fruit. Ex-Christians have felt moved by religious experience and lost in numinous feeling of connection with God, taken communion, partaken of all kinds of fellowship, retreats, Christian college courses, study groups and missionary crusades. They have written many words of Christian thought, coming from all theological and doctrinal positions.

Nobody I have heard of chooses whilst they are a believing Christian to leave Christianity, neither do they think that they (a "real Christian") would ever deconvert. But they do leave. Indeed, the idea of choice does not describe what happens. Rather than choosing "I will not believe this now" (psychologically impossible to not believe something you do believe!) instead researches lead to the inescapable conclusion that Christianity is false. Not only that but contrary to former beliefs ex-Christians are so often surprised to find a better inner life after deconversion.

I have found that ex-Christians frequently describe an enormous life affirming nature to the discovery that their beliefs were false. Reports from deconverts are of a life of honesty, free, and more loving, and often a passion for knowledge and interest in the world. No divine judging, spiritual separation from others or easy condemnation of different lifestyles. Instead the discovery of the poignancy and vulnerability of life. The desire to be moral because we can truly empathise with others in their messy humanity. Connection with the world rather than running against it. Any major change of world view can bring a "conversion experience" or trauma - but there is more to it than this. All the feelings had when religious were human and natural feelings that were mistaken for divine and supernatural things. I think this stunts them, no matter how good they where thought to be at the time.

Non-theistic Buddhists describe belief in a god as "unskilful" as it can actually harm the spiritual life of a person. The fact is that we were missing out as Christians on the real world. Not only was our view of reality mistaken, but we were also too often wrapped up in our own ego or "salvation." It makes a huge difference to intelligent complex animals like ourselves when we really believe something of such vast ramifications which is false. When we know the real source of our feelings they can be far more powerful. Such was the experience of many deconverts as the world comes more into focus out of the confusing mist of misinterpretation that is religion. The more seriously one took their religion then the greater this transformation experience may be. It is always better to believe things that are true. If one wants to know what is true then how can it be wrong to do some research? However, if only one side of the argument is ever listened to then what kind of research is that?

If Christianity is true then it should correspond to the facts of the world. Nobody should be afraid of finding out what those facts, thoughts and discoveries are. There is nothing to fear from knowing reality but instead everything to learn. Over the years I have come to know and know of many ex-Christians most of whom were well-churched, their numbers including former ministers, apologists, missionaries, theologians etc. Why should such people leave Christianity? These people are the best versed in Christianity and yet they leave despite so much personal and professional investment in their religion, enjoyment of their time as believing Christians and social pressures to stay. How can this happen if the evidence for Christianity is so good? If supernatural Christianity is true, shouldn't they have known better? But what if the history and philosophical and moral implications of the various branches of Christianity are very different from that which is traditionally taught?

The painful fact for many Christians is that through research and thinking this is the conclusion to which they often come. Why else should all these people leave, contrary to their world-view, culture, professions, and heavy investment in Christianity? Why would God go to the trouble of incarnation and crucifixion only to allow genuine seekers to find Christianity untenable, or give "spurious" experiences and "incorrect" interpretation to those who spend so many years trying to be Christians?

From our research and testimonies it is apparent that Christianity is not what we once thought it was. I hope that these collected stories and resources will be of comfort to new deconverts. It can be a great thrill to find fellow travellers in what is usually a very lonely journey with often few or no sympathetic people to turn to. I thought I was the first to deconvert from a genuine heartfelt Christianity until I discovered a few hints in books, some friends with similar stories and then the voluminous accounts on the Internet! I hope to keep these pages fresh as I am still in the process of collecting stories and links and discussing this subject with various interested parties. Discussing religion can of course be very contentious and although primarily a resource for ex-Christians it is inevitable that some believing Christians, or others with different opinions, will surf here and wish to criticise this site. I have tried to avoid too much scornful material, although sometimes emotions rise in some of the reported on-line discussions - I am not from Vulcan! But if you think I have not been fair or really have missed something then I'd like to know. All criticism is welcome as long as it is not a knee-jerk at just reading a little of what I have to offer as such criticism is less interesting and causes too much repetition.

This site started partly as a FAQ when on debating lists and also as a collection of my bookmarks, so there is some of my own material here. However I don't think I have got the most to say, although I have included my own story with as much detail as I think is necessary for those who are interested. I am occasionally worried that I will one day be put in a corner by religious friends or relatives, so this is also my considered FAQ for any of them, rather than an emotional confrontation. Luckily it has not yet been needed - I have coped with carefully placed comments, so far! The bulk of the material is contained in the links to the writings of other people which is exactly the sort of information I wish I had found back in the mid 1980's when I was asking all those questions....

 

http://sites.google.com/site/leavingxtianity/

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Hi Jennifer,

 

How can anyone LEAVE a building which they NEVER entered?   About all you have done here is to prove that you can copy/paste a long diatribe -- without adding even one original word of your own.  And, you did not even do this well.  It is all run together as one very long paragraph.

 

Jennifer, my dear Friend, there is a new technology which may not have yet seeped into the atheist world.  It is called FORMATTING!  And, it works wonders in making a post more readable.  Just a thought.

 

Bless your little pea-picking atheist heart.

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

Bless My Friend Mouse

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Nobody I have heard of chooses whilst they are a believing Christian to leave Christianity, neither do they think that they (a "real Christian") would ever deconvert. But they do leave. Indeed, the idea of choice does not describe what happens. Rather than choosing "I will not believe this now" (psychologically impossible to not believe something you do believe!) instead researches lead to the inescapable conclusion that Christianity is false. Not only that but contrary to former beliefs ex-Christians are so often surprised to find a better inner life after deconversion.


It's not uncommon for someone with a Christian past to become an atheist. People leave Christianity and abandon their faith all the time.

 

The opposite is also true. There are many former atheists who become Christians.

 

Usually, once disbelief occurs, it doesn't change. Adults do not suddenly believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy again as they did when they were kids. They don't suddenly believe a monster might be under the bed.

 

As an adult, once someone breaks your trust it is almost impossible to earn it back. If you believe a car dealer is honest and you end up getting screwed, your belief has permanently changed. If you visit a restaurant believing that it will be good and it sucks, your belief has changed and you won't return.

 

Belief is like trust, once it's gone it takes a lot to restore. Most of the time, it's permanent. Yet, for many people who's trust in the existence of God has been broken, who's belief in a higher governing intelligence has been lost, something happens that changes their mind.

 

If there is no God and it's all some delusion, why would a non-believer suddenly believe again?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jennifer,

 

How can anyone LEAVE a building which they NEVER entered?   About all you have done here is to prove that you can copy/paste a long diatribe -- without adding even one original word of your own.  And, you did not even do this well.  It is all run together as one very long paragraph.

 

Jennifer, my dear Friend, there is a new technology which may not have yet seeped into the atheist world.  It is called FORMATTING!  And, it works wonders in making a post more readable.  Just a thought.

 

Bless your little pea-picking atheist heart.

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

 

Bill

 

_____________

Let's analyze this post. 

 

First an analogy that works.  That IS a miracle.

 

Then no response or comment from Bill except for two paragraphs criticizing the formatting haboring a thinly veiled insult.

 

Then an outright insult.

 

Finally a stupid sign-off which basically is an insult.

 

To sum up, Bill has nothing to add or contribute to the post, doesn't refute it in any way, except to insult the poster.  I'm sure he has made points in heaven [sarcasm, Bill], but since he has been saved, he gets a pass for being snarky. 

 

 

Crusty,

 

Shame on you!  How can you say that "Bless her heart" -- heard all over the South is silly?  And, even when we add a wee bit of Tennessee Ernie to it, with, "Bless your pea-picking little heart" -- how can you be so sacrilegious as to say this is silly?  Shame on you!  Are you a transplanted Yankee with wanna-be Southern desires?

 

Heck, I grew up hearing that all the time.

 

And, yes, my Friend, we heard, "Elvis has left the building" -- because Elvis had been IN the building.  But, to say a person left Christ -- can only mean that this person never had Christ.   If you don't believe me -- ask God.  He sent His Love Letter (we call it the Bible) to answer all of these questions.

 

You really should give His Word a try sometimes.  It could be a life changing experience -- if you will only try.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

As an adult, once someone breaks your trust it is almost impossible to earn it back. If you believe a car dealer is honest and you end up getting screwed, your belief has permanently changed. If you visit a restaurant believing that it will be good and it sucks, your belief has changed and you won't return. Belief is like trust, once it's gone it takes a lot to restore. Most of the time, it's permanent. Yet, for many people who's trust in the existence of God has been broken, who's belief in a higher governing intelligence has been lost, something happens that changes their mind. If there is no God and it's all some delusion, why would a non-believer suddenly believe again?

 

---------------------------------

 

I don't get the "break your trust" reference. Now as silly as it sounds, if a car dealer "screwed me" it would be my fault for not checking him/her out, and doing my homework. And, we have given restaurants a second and a few times even a third chance because we know that sometimes **** happens and everyone has a bad day.

 

Now with that "said", I can't speak as to why a non-believer would ever believe again, I don't think they would. Because the thing christians refuse to understand is that when that belief is gone, it is gone. After you have that "revelation" and realize it is OK to feel that way, it is a wonderful feeling you can't believe. It's like waking up in a new and wonderful world. I hate to say it was like being let out of prison because I was never mistreated by the christians I grew up around, but that is the thought that keeps coming to mind. So maybe the right phrase would be that it's like your mind has been let out of a "mental prison" of some sort, a prison your mind was trapped in and didn't like, and because it didn't like it there was a war going on. 

 

You go to church, Sunday school, bible camp, bible school, have your bible in the house and one in the car, hear all the "bible stuff", and you're going "uh huh, yes". You believe it with all your heart and the thought you won't believe it forever never enters your mind until the day the other side of your mind goes, "uh, excuse me, but are you really listening to that stuff? Are you seriously buying that? It's ridiculous"!  I say it was my common sense coming in to take over, and even with me fighting it for years, it finally won out and I am so glad it did.

 

No one is a christian one day and an atheist the next, and you will never make me believe someone is an atheist one day and a christian the next day. That's why when bill and others like him say that atheists have "chosen" to turn their backs on gawd, or refuse his wonderful gift, I call BS on it. Because for that to be a choice, based on nothing but just deciding not to believe, then their choosing to believe is based on nothing but just wanting it to be so. And any time they talk about someone "getting religion" I know that for every one that "finds god", there is one that finally realizes it just isn't so. So many people say they were/are only religious because they were "broken down" by family members, friends, whatever, and never really had their heart in it. I've heard people say they don't "believe that stuff" but go to church because it is expected of them and there would be a "fight at home", or they're in business and want to have that "front" so to speak, or they like going to socialize. 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Jennifer, my dear Friend, there is a new technology which may not have yet seeped into the atheist world. It is called FORMATTING! And, it works wonders in making a post more readable. Just a thought.

Bless your little pea-picking atheist heart.

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Crusty,

Shame on you! How can you say that "Bless her heart" -- heard all over the South is silly? And, even when we add a wee bit of Tennessee Ernie to it, with, "Bless your pea-picking little heart" -- how can you be so sacrilegious as to say this is silly? Shame on you! Are you a transplanted Yankee with wanna-be Southern desires?

________________________________

And this from someone that just recently accused me of using wise cracks?

Once saved always saved is one of the biggest lies Satan has. God said it is those who continue to the end the same shall be saved.  My take on this is that it doesn't matter what your inner condition is, if you do not endure to the end, you will not be saved.

He also said "If the sow goes back to wollow in the mire it becomes dirity again".

 

A Christian is not a person who just says a prayer, walks down a church aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of those things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what it takes to be a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received & fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior. It's ignorant people like Bill that will swear that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian. That's a bunch of crap, & we all know that Bill is full of it.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Crusty,

 

Shame on you!  How can you say that "Bless her heart" -- heard all over the South is silly?  And, even when we add a wee bit of Tennessee Ernie to it, with, "Bless your pea-picking little heart" -- how can you be so sacrilegious as to say this is silly?  Shame on you!  Are you a transplanted Yankee with wanna-be Southern desires?

 

I didn't say it it was silly, I said it was an insult, a left-handed compliment.  I've lived in the South all my life.  Have you?

 

Heck, I grew up hearing that all the time.

 

So did I, and I still do.  It is an insult, you must be a few bricks short of a full load, bless your heart.

 

And, yes, my Friend, we heard, "Elvis has left the building" -- because Elvis had been IN the building.  But, to say a person left Christ -- can only mean that this person never had Christ.

 

Rubbish.

 

If you don't believe me -- ask God.  He sent His Love Letter (we call it the Bible) to answer all of these questions.

 

You really should give His Word a try sometimes.  It could be a life changing experience -- if you will only try.

 

Done, as I've said many times before, and you ignore.  Have Dory refill your prescriptions.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Crusty,

 

With all my heart, I sincerely do hope you are a Christian believer.   But, my Friend, from what you tell us, it has been a very long time since you wandered through the door of any church.  Are you sure that God will still recognize you -- or you Him?

 

That is sort of like the couple who gets married -- and on the honeymoon the bridegroom runs away for fifty years.  Not sure they would recognize each other if the creaky old bridegroom finally finds his way home again.

 

You kind of remind me of the old farmer who told his wife, "When we got married fifty years ago, I told you I love you.  If I change my mind I will tell you."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

American Gothic - Farmer & Wife

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Crusty,

 

With all my heart, I sincerely do hope you are a Christian believer.   But, my Friend, from what you tell us, it has been a very long time since you wandered through the door of any church.  Are you sure that God will still recognize you -- or you Him?

 

That is sort of like the couple who gets married -- and on the honeymoon the bridegroom runs away for fifty years.  Not sure they would recognize each other if the creaky old bridegroom finally finds his way home again.

 

You kind of remind me of the old farmer who told his wife, "When we got married fifty years ago, I told you I love you.  If I change my mind I will tell you."

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

___________________

Just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

Curious, Bill, do you believe God only "recognizes" people when they are in church?  Sounds pretty limiting to me, but your take on God is a very finite one, so I get how you could be confused.

quote:   Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

Well crusty, looks like we had the same thought at almost the same time.


Hi Jennifer,

 

Actually, I believe you and Crusty have the same thoughts MOST of the time.   There is an old maxim which says:  "You can tell a lot about a person by the friends they keep."   Enough said.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

And you can tell a lot about a person by the posts he makes. That is why I say with every tainted post YOU make it becomes clearer and clearer just how dishonest and despicable you are. I don't "keep company" with crusty or anyone else on this forum, but spending time with him wouldn't bother me at all whereas the thought of being around you for two minutes makes me gag. At least he's an honest poster, doesn't lie or encourage others to lie as you told me to do, isn't a bully and doesn't  make up ridiculous "oh yeah that happened to me too" stories. 

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote:   Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
 Curious, Bill, do you believe God only "recognizes" people when they are in church?

My guess is that Billy will say if a Christian doesn't go to church, he/she ain't a Christian.


Hi Chick and Crusty,

 

This dialogue brings to memory a "kitchen table" discussion I had about 25 years ago with a Christian Friend and his pastor.  At that time, I was not yet a Christian -- but, if asked, I would declare, "Yes, I am a Christian.  I believe in God.  I believe in Jesus Christ.  I was born and grew up in Alabama, in the heart of the Bible Belt.  I attended the Nazarene, Methodist, and Baptist churches when I was young.  Yes, I am a Christian!"    Wrong!  I was nowhere near being a Christian at that time.

 

And, in this "kitchen table" talk, we were discussing whether a Christian should, or must, attend church.  Of course, I, at that time, like the two of you today, declared firmly that, "A person does not have to go to church to be a Christian!" 

 

Well, in a way, that last statement is true.  However, a person who is a Christian "will want" to have a home church where he/she can fellowship with other Christian brothers and sisters.   For a Christian to not want to be a part of a local church family -- would be like me saying, "I am a Gray.  But, I do not want to be around the Gray family at any time."  

 

Now, being a member of the Gray family, I should, and do, want to be with them as much as possible.  And, the same should be true of a Christian.  Being a member of the Christian family -- one should want to be around his/her family members and spiritual siblings as much as possible.

 

However, for a person to say he/she is a Christian -- but, then declare that he/she never wants to attend church because all those folks are hypocrites and phony -- has to make one wonder.  The image which comes into my mind in such cases is the mother who is attending the parade where her son's military unit is marching.

 

Proud mother turns to her friend and tells her, "Look, everyone is out of step except my Johnny!"

 

So, my Friends, if everyone else is out of step, except you -- maybe it would be beneficial to do some reevaluating.  Just a thought.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:  Originally Posted by CrustyMac:

So, Bill, are you going to answer my question, or just preach to me about something you know nothing about?


Hi Crusty,

 

You asked, "Curious, Bill, do you believe God only "recognizes" people when they are in church?"

 

And, I answered that in my previous combined response to you and Chick.  It may not be the answer you wanted to see -- but, it is a truthful answer.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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