Hi to my Forum Friends,
This began as a response to a question from Rramlimnn; yet, as I wrote I realized that I wanted to put it before the full Religion Forum family. Basically, it boils down to a division in the Christian churches of America which goes back to the late 1800s, early 1900s. It is a good example of the difference between liberal Christian theology and conservative Christian theology. Many of you have joined in this debate without even knowing it. When you call me a Fundamentalist, a name I proudly wear -- you are flying the Liberal Theology flag. Basically, in simplified form, it is a debate over whether we should take the Bible literally -- or merely view it as a bunch of allegories, metaphors, and symbolisms. The conservatives (fundamentalists) take the Bible literally; therefore, in the Bible, what God says, God means. The liberal theologist take the Bible as not being literal; therefore, they can twist it to support whatever theology they want to expound. This is, of course, just a simplified description. In a later discussion we can talk in more detail about the differences between Liberal Christian Theology and Conservative Christian Theology.
In his post, Rramlimnn asked, "Bro. Bill, I have watched this lecture twice. I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I figured you would.
September 17, 2000 - Centennial Public Lecture Series: Dr. Paula Fredriksen: "Jesus, Paul, and the Origins of Christianity"
URL link for Dr. Fredriksen's lecture: Link
And, on this URL, I found her lecture notes handout: Link
First, let begin by saying that, initially, I was concerned. Paula is a product of Wellesley (religion & history), Oxford (theology), and Princeton (Ph.D. in religion) -- three very liberal schools. And, I could see her liberal "politically correct" leaning in her lecture notes, which began with a chronology. In her chronology, she refers to dates as BCE (before common era) and CE (common era) rather than the long used BC (before Christ) and AD (anno domini, year of the Lord).
She has taught at Princeton, in the Religious Studies department at Stanford, in the History department of U.C. Berkeley, and in the Religious Studies department at the University of Pittsburgh.
Historically, I found her lecture very interesting; myself gaining new insights into the ministry of the apostle Paul.
Yet, in several areas, her liberal theology leanings came through loud and clear:
Below are excerpts from her lecture notes, which are taken from Romans 1:22-31. I have shown her writing in blue text, with my comments in black text below. I am not sure which Bible translation she was using -- or if the notes are her paraphrase of the Scripture passage. I looked at thirteen translations and could not find one that matched what she has in her lecture notes for Romans 1:22-31.
ONE DIASPORA JEW’S OPINION OF GENTILES AND GENTILE CULTURE:
What she has labeled as "one diaspora Jew's opinion" was in reality the inspired and written opinion and teaching of the apostle Paul. Paul was certainly not a displaced Jew -- but was the Jewish evangelist to the Gentile nations, personally chosen by Jesus Christ.
“Claiming to be wise, [the Gentiles] became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator.
Romans 1:22-25, "Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."
God gave them up to a base mind and improper conduct.
Romans 1:26-27, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
Notice that Professor Fredriksen took all of Paul's writings which concerned degrading passions, homosexuality, and lesbianism -- and merely calls them "a base mind and improper conduct." I really think that the apostle Paul, inspired by God, said what God meant and meant what God said.
They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity. They are gossips, slanders, haters of God; insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents. Foolish. Faithless. Heartless. Ruthless.”
Romans 1:28-31, "And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful."
Yet, in her lecture notes below on 1 Corinthians she includes the homosexuals, adulterers, etc., in her lecture notes. Seems she could not decide what to do with the homosexual lifestyle.
PAUL’S INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO BE A GENTILE-IN-CHRIST
Paul’s audience: Gentiles who formerly actively worshiped traditional gods. “Neither the sexually immoral, nor the idol-worshipers, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you” (1 Cor 6:9-10). “Formerly, when you did not know God, you were in bondage to beings that by nature are no gods,” (Gal 4:8). “You turned to God from idols, to serve a living and true God,” (1 Thes 1:9).
Paul’s requirements: His Gentiles must abstain from sins, especially idol worship and its perennial accompaniment, porneia. 1 Thess 4:3-7 “For this is the will of God for your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual sin (porneia); that each one of you knows how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God.”
1 Cor 5:1-11 “It is actually reported that there is sexual sin [porneia] among you, of a kind not found even among the Gentiles!. . . Do not be associated with anyone who bears the name of brother [i.e., who is a Christian] if he is guilty of porneia, or greed, or who worships idols, or speaks maliciously, or if he is drunk or a robber — do not even eat with someone like this!”
What everyone is waiting for: “You turned to God from idols, to serve a living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come,” (1 Thess 1:9-10);
Both the living and the dead will rise to join Christ when he descends from heaven “with a cry of command and the archangel’s call and the sound of the trumpet of God,” (4:13-17).
“The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God,” (1 Cor 6:9);
“The appointed time has grown very short; the form of this world is passing away,” (7:29,31); a long description of what happens at the End: when Christ returns, those “who belong to him” are raised from the dead.
"Then comes the End, when he delivers the Kingdom to God the Father, after destroying every rule and authority and power. The last enemy to be destroyed is Death,” (15:20-28).
“You know how late the hour is, . . . For salvation is nearer to us than when we first believed. The night is far gone, the day is at hand,” (Rom 13:11-12).
In the video, during the Q & A session at the end of her lecture, a question was asked about the apostle Paul and the fact that he advised those committed to ministry -- if you are not married, do not marry; however, if you have strong desires, marry so that you do not commit sexual sins. To the question: was Paul a homosexual? -- she replies that, "There is no reason to think that Paul was homosexual. He said some very unfortunate things about homosexuals being banned from the kingdom of God." So, I guess that is why she rewrote Romans 1:26-27. Yet, she did not bother to alter 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. I get the feeling that she is very liberal, yet can't always make up her mind.
When asked a question about the Trinity, she answers, "The Trinity is entirely native to Greek philosophy of the fourth century. . . I am sure that Jesus would have been puzzled by the idea of the Trinity."
Along with other things this lady has said in the video and written in her lecture notes -- this last comment about Jesus and the Trinity gives me the feeling that I would not want to attend a church where Dr. Paula Fredriksen was teaching.
Rramlimnn, I pray that I have answered your question sufficiently. In summary, let me say that I believe this lady to be a Christian, albeit a Christian who follows a very Liberal Theology -- which does not jive with my Bible.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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