Liberal, Conservative or Moderate

Hands down BUSH, NO!, Neither Party,I believe G. Wallace was the Best, He told it like he saw it. Worst, I haven't a clue???

Semper Fi,(carry on citizen's!)

I don't trust any of them. They all tend to vote however the groups that paid their way into office tell them to vote. All the political parties suck. I'm not sure if politicians know their party's platform. They will say & do anything to get elected.

As I'm sure most of you do, I vote based on a candidate's voting record. It's just a question of which group that paid someone into office I agree with I guess. Okay, so now I'm depressed.

I'm not sure about best, but I'd have to vote for Bush as the worst. Clinton was an embarrassment, the joke heard round the world, & some of the things credited to Clinton don't actually belong to him, but I did like some of what he did. So, yep, definately Bush.

Alright, I'll admit it. I just adored Ronald Reagan. I was in high school when someone attempted to assassinate him & I was worried sick. So, y'all scream all you want, but darn it, the man got a teenage girl to focus on something besides boys. That's got to count for something.

WORST PRESIDENT-JIMMY CARTER
BEST PRESIDENT-RONALD REAGAN
WORST GOVERNOR-DON SIEGELMAN
BEST GOVERNOR-BOB RILEY
ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

Worst President in American History? No contest, Bill Clinton. Best President? Either Lincoln or Reagan.

PS
I hope George Wallace is and Saddam are taking turns raping each other in the A$%.

Worst President ever? Easily, that would be Lincoln, then probably Wilson, a distant second.

I agree, If Lincoln was a better president, the Civil War could have been avoided. Don't forget about Grant and Hoover, they were awful as well.

Best president ever- FDR
Best president in my lifetime- Clinton
Worse president ever- GW Bush
next worse- Hoover
honorary mention- Nixon

Worse governor (my memory) Hunt
worse embarrassment for a governor- Fob James

Best governor (again my memory) - Big Jim Folsom

Worst President

Worst President in History!!!

Worst President ever

This one you have to read it all, they are ALL compared and have graphs of proof, not just Bush, although Bush WAS the worst...

All these links have validity, especially the last one which lists ALL their records, and even they tell about Bush and all the jobs he lost us in his first tenure... on and on and on and on and on it goes...

Bush was and REMAINS the Worst... Best was Roosevelt...

Worst Governor was Hunt, and most embarassing, he was a joke from day one... Not sure if we have had our BEST one yet!! lol

Siegleman wasn't great, but he DID offer the Lottery in which our state needs badly, because as it stands, all the surrounding states to us are getting revenue off of OUR money.

Best President - George Washington, set the tone for the best of the rest. Then, left power.

Worst -- Jimmah Carter.

I just don't see how some think our current President is the wost ever. The economy is screaming, the stock market is in record territory, taxes are lower, other than the war I don't see what the problem people have is.

And by Roosevelt I hope you mean T.R. and not F.D.R. I think right behind Clinton F.D.R. is the worst President we ever had. Look he STARTED Welfare, and Social Security, and the Income Tax. IT was F.D.R. that sold us into serfdom to the U.S. Government. We would have a lot more freedom and $$$$ if it hadn't been for F.D.R.

quote:

Originally posted by lbself1:
WORST PRESIDENT-JIMMY CARTER
BEST PRESIDENT-RONALD REAGAN
WORST GOVERNOR-DON SIEGELMAN
BEST GOVERNOR-BOB RILEY
ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

Hey , you did a good job listing it just like I told you to do. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by dogsmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by lbself1:
WORST PRESIDENT-JIMMY CARTER
BEST PRESIDENT-RONALD REAGAN
WORST GOVERNOR-DON SIEGELMAN
BEST GOVERNOR-BOB RILEY
ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

Hey , you did a good job listing it just like I told you to do. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I believe I can agree with your list.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I just don't see how some think our current President is the wost ever. The economy is screaming, the stock market is in record territory, taxes are lower, other than the war I don't see what the problem people have is.

And by Roosevelt I hope you mean T.R. and not F.D.R. I think right behind Clinton F.D.R. is the worst President we ever had. Look he STARTED Welfare, and Social Security, and the Income Tax. IT was F.D.R. that sold us into serfdom to the U.S. Government. We would have a lot more freedom and $$$$ if it hadn't been for F.D.R.

I am a great fan of Teddy Rowsevelt. He started the national park system that most of the Republicans of late have been out to destroy.

As for FDR, well, what can I say? I am way too chilled out after 2 gin and tonics to try to even respond to such as you said. It is obvious that you are ignorant of a lot of facts and a lot of history, and a lot of what is important to the world, this nation, and this part of the country. (Tenn Valley, not Daytona)
Good news for you is that ignorance can be fixed, and I recommend you do some study on the contributions made by FDR. I'm not even going to try to start as that history is well documented. I am sure that if you apply yourself, you will be able to see for yourself what a truly great man as president can do for his country.
FDR led this country thru the GREAT Depression (yes there have been others, but only one is called "GREAT"), and served as Commander-in-Chief during the most destructive war ever, and came out winner (although dying just before he saw the final triumph). He was re-elected 3 times, which says something for the intelligence of our parents generation.
Do some study for yourself. Don't despair- ignorance can be fixed. Just don't be stupid 'cause thats forever.

I am very aware of the things Mr. Roosevelt did. You and I just have a different perspective. I beleive the free market and not the government are the source of our prosperity. Remember the more govenment can do for you the more it can do to you.

Mr. Roosevelt started our country on a road to more government control with the socialist programs he started. Like the WPA? And of course Welfare, and Social Security. The govenment had no business instituting these programs. Remember it is PROVIDE for the common defense and Support the general welfare, not the other way around.

I realize we are from an economically deprived area. That is why most of us had to leave the Shoals to make a good living.

Some still beleive that F.D.R. not the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor to get us in that war. I don't know about that.

Again I respect your point of view we just don't share it.

Yeah, that free market was working really well in 1929, huh?

I agree with excelman's list.

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I am very aware of the things Mr. Roosevelt did. You and I just have a different perspective. I beleive the free market and not the government are the source of our prosperity. Remember the more govenment can do for you the more it can do to you.

Mr. Roosevelt started our country on a road to more government control with the socialist programs he started. Like the WPA? And of course Welfare, and Social Security. The govenment had no business instituting these programs. Remember it is PROVIDE for the common defense and Support the general welfare, not the other way around.

I realize we are from an economically deprived area. That is why most of us had to leave the Shoals to make a good living.

Some still beleive that F.D.R. not the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor to get us in that war. I don't know about that.

Again I respect your point of view we just don't share it.

YOu are correct in that FDR did see the government as a means to help the people who made up the government.As for WPA, CCC camps etc, (ie the alphabet programs), he was not scared to try something, and if it worked (like TVA) keep it, and if it didn't , try something else.
I am old enough to remember people who did not have SSI. Many people would not save for their old age, and the only option is to fource them, or let them starve. SSI was instituted to fource people to take care of themselves. You got a better idea?
Lets just talk about the FDR plan that I know the most about - TVA. Do you realize that TVA "invented" commercial fertalizer? Where do you think we would be without that. This country has fed the world since 1933 due to this fact. THe Tennessee VAlley uses more electricity for more purposes than any other reagon in the country. Where would we be without plentiful cheap electricity?
YOu like your freedom, maybe even your life? Well, the neculear facility at Oak Ridge was put there for one reason. ONly one electrical utility could provide the massive ammount of electricity needed to refine uranium to make the atomic bomb that ended WW2 and therefore negated the invasion of Japan , which would have required about 1 million men, one of which may have been your daddy! That utility was TVA, which also went into war mode and provided electricity to "manufacture the aluminum to make the planes to bomb the bastard".
During his sojurn in Ga. FDR thought up REA to electrify rural America.
All that is just a tast of what that great man did for his country. Think about that as apposed to what the current jerk has done TO his country. Just kinda makes you want to crY.

ps: I hope you don't believe Roosevelt bombed Pearl Harbor. If so, we have nothing left to discuss.

best VP EVER was gore, coz he single-handedly created the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by monster:
best VP EVER was gore, coz he single-handedly created the internet.

I agree about Gore. However, it was Dick Army (R-Tx) That said Gore said he invented the internet. Gore did not say that.
Gore actually sponsored a bill that provided that the internet be opened to the public, not kept in the domain of research facilities as it had been for years.
When he did that, Gore did help all of us who use the internet.

quote:

do you trust the Republicans, the Democrats. or neither.

I Do not trust the republicans or the democrats! And this is why. The democrats, at first, was way to far to the left. The republicans have gone way too far to the right, with the exception of a few that have remained moderate. I read a post that was in You Said It a couple of weeks ago that anybody that's too far to the left was communism and too far to the right is facism. I agree with that person who made that statement. We have some good republicans and we have some good democrats that are bipartisian. We just don't have enough of the good to out weigh the bad. The republican party has allowed the neocons and the religious right rule their party and the democrats have let the far left liberals rule them. I don't believe in all capitalism and socialism. I believe you need a little of both but not all capitalism or all socialism.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I am very aware of the things Mr. Roosevelt did. You and I just have a different perspective. I beleive the free market and not the government are the source of our prosperity. Remember the more govenment can do for you the more it can do to you.

Mr. Roosevelt started our country on a road to more government control with the socialist programs he started. Like the WPA? And of course Welfare, and Social Security. The govenment had no business instituting these programs. Remember it is PROVIDE for the common defense and Support the general welfare, not the other way around.

I realize we are from an economically deprived area. That is why most of us had to leave the Shoals to make a good living.

Some still beleive that F.D.R. not the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor to get us in that war. I don't know about that.

Again I respect your point of view we just don't share it.

YOu are correct in that FDR did see the government as a means to help the people who made up the government.As for WPA, CCC camps etc, (ie the alphabet programs), he was not scared to try something, and if it worked (like TVA) keep it, and if it didn't , try something else.
I am old enough to remember people who did not have SSI. Many people would not save for their old age, and the only option is to fource them, or let them starve. SSI was instituted to fource people to take care of themselves. You got a better idea?
Lets just talk about the FDR plan that I know the most about - TVA. Do you realize that TVA "invented" commercial fertalizer? Where do you think we would be without that. This country has fed the world since 1933 due to this fact. THe Tennessee VAlley uses more electricity for more purposes than any other reagon in the country. Where would we be without plentiful cheap electricity?
YOu like your freedom, maybe even your life? Well, the neculear facility at Oak Ridge was put there for one reason. ONly one electrical utility could provide the massive ammount of electricity needed to refine uranium to make the atomic bomb that ended WW2 and therefore negated the invasion of Japan , which would have required about 1 million men, one of which may have been your daddy! That utility was TVA, which also went into war mode and provided electricity to "manufacture the aluminum to make the planes to bomb the bastard".
During his sojurn in Ga. FDR thought up REA to electrify rural America.
All that is just a tast of what that great man did for his country. Think about that as apposed to what the current jerk has done TO his country. Just kinda makes you want to crY.

Excelman, Sir, I respectfully disagree with your views on FDR. A lot of people suffered in that time frame when Hoover was President. People worked for nothing, worked in the fields all day for nothing. The republicans have never liked Social Security, Medicare, and they don't like Medicaid, anything that will help someone. The republicans call this "government control". Well, let me remind you sir, that we the people are the government. We are standing by giving our government more control today.

Think about Bush. He tells the Congress to kiss his ass and go to hell. They are not going to be able to fire Gonzo, the attorney general. The power is in the hands of the corporations and the very rich. You have no representation unless you are very wealthy. If you vote democrat, you must be a very conservative democrat, but you must be a very conservative republican, not even moderate. The churches don't help the poor people. They may have back in the time frame of Hoover, but you try to get help from a church today. Unless you belong to that church, you won't get any help. I guess it's because some people have claimed that they needed help when they didn't, and I can understand that. But you need to read up on capitalism and socialism. You don't need all capitalism and you don't need all socialism. FDR opened the door for the middle class working people and made it affordable for people to go to school and be able to go to work on a full stomach. You need to do more research.

quote:

Originally posted by pba:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I am very aware of the things Mr. Roosevelt did. You and I just have a different perspective. I beleive the free market and not the government are the source of our prosperity. Remember the more govenment can do for you the more it can do to you.

Mr. Roosevelt started our country on a road to more government control with the socialist programs he started. Like the WPA? And of course Welfare, and Social Security. The govenment had no business instituting these programs. Remember it is PROVIDE for the common defense and Support the general welfare, not the other way around.

I realize we are from an economically deprived area. That is why most of us had to leave the Shoals to make a good living.

Some still beleive that F.D.R. not the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor to get us in that war. I don't know about that.

Again I respect your point of view we just don't share it.

YOu are correct in that FDR did see the government as a means to help the people who made up the government.As for WPA, CCC camps etc, (ie the alphabet programs), he was not scared to try something, and if it worked (like TVA) keep it, and if it didn't , try something else.
I am old enough to remember people who did not have SSI. Many people would not save for their old age, and the only option is to fource them, or let them starve. SSI was instituted to fource people to take care of themselves. You got a better idea?
Lets just talk about the FDR plan that I know the most about - TVA. Do you realize that TVA "invented" commercial fertalizer? Where do you think we would be without that. This country has fed the world since 1933 due to this fact. THe Tennessee VAlley uses more electricity for more purposes than any other reagon in the country. Where would we be without plentiful cheap electricity?
YOu like your freedom, maybe even your life? Well, the neculear facility at Oak Ridge was put there for one reason. ONly one electrical utility could provide the massive ammount of electricity needed to refine uranium to make the atomic bomb that ended WW2 and therefore negated the invasion of Japan , which would have required about 1 million men, one of which may have been your daddy! That utility was TVA, which also went into war mode and provided electricity to "manufacture the aluminum to make the planes to bomb the bastard".
During his sojurn in Ga. FDR thought up REA to electrify rural America.
All that is just a tast of what that great man did for his country. Think about that as apposed to what the current jerk has done TO his country. Just kinda makes you want to crY.

Excelman, Sir, I respectfully disagree with your views on FDR. A lot of people suffered in that time frame when Hoover was President. People worked for nothing, worked in the fields all day for nothing. The republicans have never liked Social Security, Medicare, and they don't like Medicaid, anything that will help someone. The republicans call this "government control". Well, let me remind you sir, that we the people are the government. We are standing by giving our government more control today.

Think about Bush. He tells the Congress to kiss his ass and go to hell. They are not going to be able to fire Gonzo, the attorney general. The power is in the hands of the corporations and the very rich. You have no representation unless you are very wealthy. If you vote democrat, you must be a very conservative democrat, but you must be a very conservative republican, not even moderate. The churches don't help the poor people. They may have back in the time frame of Hoover, but you try to get help from a church today. Unless you belong to that church, you won't get any help. I guess it's because some people have claimed that they needed help when they didn't, and I can understand that. But you need to read up on capitalism and socialism. You don't need all capitalism and you don't need all socialism. FDR opened the door for the middle class working people and made it affordable for people to go to school and be able to go to work on a full stomach. You need to do more research.

pba, ???
Maybe it is late, but it sounds like you disagree with me while helping me state the case for FDR.
Oh well, its late and I need another gin and tonic, maybe you do too.

quote:

The churches don't help the poor people.

pba, that's a blatant lie. My brother in law goes on a mission trip at least once a year to different countries to help build houses, schools, and provide food for people in desperate need. Every church I've been to, except for the CoC, takes up canned foods to distribute to the poor several times a year. There's always some program going on to help the less fortunate. Almost all homeless shelters are run by churches. The Salvation Army is a church, all they do is help poor people all year long. If anyone needs to do more research, it's you.

FDR was not the worst president, nor was he the best. He did find ways to try and jump start the economy during hard times. TVA and many national parks are proof of that. However, he did start too many social programs that were basically handouts with no end. There is nothing wrong with helping someone up, but his welfare programs were not given limits and they were quickly abused, they still are today. FDR did some good things, some not so good. I consider him an average president.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I just don't see how some think our current President is the wost ever. The economy is screaming, the stock market is in record territory, taxes are lower, other than the war I don't see what the problem people have is.

And by Roosevelt I hope you mean T.R. and not F.D.R. I think right behind Clinton F.D.R. is the worst President we ever had. Look he STARTED Welfare, and Social Security, and the Income Tax. IT was F.D.R. that sold us into serfdom to the U.S. Government. We would have a lot more freedom and $$$$ if it hadn't been for F.D.R.

I am a great fan of Teddy Rowsevelt. He started the national park system that most of the Republicans of late have been out to destroy.

As for FDR, well, what can I say? I am way too chilled out after 2 gin and tonics to try to even respond to such as you said. It is obvious that you are ignorant of a lot of facts and a lot of history, and a lot of what is important to the world, this nation, and this part of the country. (Tenn Valley, not Daytona)
Good news for you is that ignorance can be fixed, and I recommend you do some study on the contributions made by FDR. I'm not even going to try to start as that history is well documented. I am sure that if you apply yourself, you will be able to see for yourself what a truly great man as president can do for his country.
FDR led this country thru the GREAT Depression (yes there have been others, but only one is called "GREAT"), and served as Commander-in-Chief during the most destructive war ever, and came out winner (although dying just before he saw the final triumph). He was re-elected 3 times, which says something for the intelligence of our parents generation.
Do some study for yourself. Don't despair- ignorance can be fixed. Just don't be stupid 'cause thats forever.

Your INTELLIGENCE shows through even with the gin/tonics!!!!! You GOOOOOOOO boy!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by pba:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:

quote:

Originally posted by Netracer41:
I am very aware of the things Mr. Roosevelt did. You and I just have a different perspective. I beleive the free market and not the government are the source of our prosperity. Remember the more govenment can do for you the more it can do to you.

Mr. Roosevelt started our country on a road to more government control with the socialist programs he started. Like the WPA? And of course Welfare, and Social Security. The govenment had no business instituting these programs. Remember it is PROVIDE for the common defense and Support the general welfare, not the other way around.

I realize we are from an economically deprived area. That is why most of us had to leave the Shoals to make a good living.

Some still beleive that F.D.R. not the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor to get us in that war. I don't know about that.

Again I respect your point of view we just don't share it.

YOu are correct in that FDR did see the government as a means to help the people who made up the government.As for WPA, CCC camps etc, (ie the alphabet programs), he was not scared to try something, and if it worked (like TVA) keep it, and if it didn't , try something else.
I am old enough to remember people who did not have SSI. Many people would not save for their old age, and the only option is to fource them, or let them starve. SSI was instituted to fource people to take care of themselves. You got a better idea?
Lets just talk about the FDR plan that I know the most about - TVA. Do you realize that TVA "invented" commercial fertalizer? Where do you think we would be without that. This country has fed the world since 1933 due to this fact. THe Tennessee VAlley uses more electricity for more purposes than any other reagon in the country. Where would we be without plentiful cheap electricity?
YOu like your freedom, maybe even your life? Well, the neculear facility at Oak Ridge was put there for one reason. ONly one electrical utility could provide the massive ammount of electricity needed to refine uranium to make the atomic bomb that ended WW2 and therefore negated the invasion of Japan , which would have required about 1 million men, one of which may have been your daddy! That utility was TVA, which also went into war mode and provided electricity to "manufacture the aluminum to make the planes to bomb the bastard".
During his sojurn in Ga. FDR thought up REA to electrify rural America.
All that is just a tast of what that great man did for his country. Think about that as apposed to what the current jerk has done TO his country. Just kinda makes you want to crY.

Excelman, Sir, I respectfully disagree with your views on FDR. A lot of people suffered in that time frame when Hoover was President. People worked for nothing, worked in the fields all day for nothing. The republicans have never liked Social Security, Medicare, and they don't like Medicaid, anything that will help someone. The republicans call this "government control". Well, let me remind you sir, that we the people are the government. We are standing by giving our government more control today.

Think about Bush. He tells the Congress to kiss his ass and go to hell. They are not going to be able to fire Gonzo, the attorney general. The power is in the hands of the corporations and the very rich. You have no representation unless you are very wealthy. If you vote democrat, you must be a very conservative democrat, but you must be a very conservative republican, not even moderate. The churches don't help the poor people. They may have back in the time frame of Hoover, but you try to get help from a church today. Unless you belong to that church, you won't get any help. I guess it's because some people have claimed that they needed help when they didn't, and I can understand that. But you need to read up on capitalism and socialism. You don't need all capitalism and you don't need all socialism. FDR opened the door for the middle class working people and made it affordable for people to go to school and be able to go to work on a full stomach. You need to do more research.

pba, ???
Maybe it is late, but it sounds like you disagree with me while helping me state the case for FDR.
Oh well, its late and I need another gin and tonic, maybe you do too.

PBA, he is correct, you said the SAME thing, using many different words... excelman is right and you made his case for him...

Also correct on the Dick Army being the one to START that about Gore inventing the Internet... how things get out of hand.. even our government... way too out of hand right now.

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:

quote:

The churches don't help the poor people.

pba, that's a blatant lie. My brother in law goes on a mission trip at least once a year to different countries to help build houses, schools, and provide food for people in desperate need. Every church I've been to, except for the CoC, takes up canned foods to distribute to the poor several times a year. There's always some program going on to help the less fortunate. Almost all homeless shelters are run by churches. The Salvation Army is a church, all they do is help poor people all year long. If anyone needs to do more research, it's you.

FDR was not the worst president, nor was he the best. He did find ways to try and jump start the economy during hard times. TVA and many national parks are proof of that. However, he did start too many social programs that were basically handouts with no end. There is nothing wrong with helping someone up, but his welfare programs were not given limits and they were quickly abused, they still are today. FDR did some good things, some not so good. I consider him an average president.

Nash, I know a LOT of people who go on Church Missions to help people... without the Churches, a LOT of people would have stayed hungry a LOT longer after Katrina hit too...

But we are talking Presidents here.. I think that what FDR did for the South East was great, and without HIM being Pres, there would be NO TVA... and then we would all be dirt farmers... like it was back then.

QUOTE: "I am old enough to remember people who did not have SSI. Many people would not save for their old age, and the only option is to fource them, or let them starve. SSI was instituted to fource people to take care of themselves. You got a better idea?"

I have a couple. First how about personal responsibility? We have tremedous opportunity in this country. It is not the govenment's responsibility to babysit grown people.

Ok, say government thinks it's people are absolute dolts. Then people could be required to save or invest a certain percentage but in private investments not contolled by the feds. The return on private investments is many times the amount returned to the people by the government. And we wouldn't need another massive program to administer.

We need to rely on ourselves to be the best we can be whatever that is individually. Just like now some will be wealthy, some middle class, and some poor. Prosperity or poverty are both individual decisions. Leave the govenment to it's constitutional duties. Just an opinion.

quote:

Nash, I know a LOT of people who go on Church Missions to help people... without the Churches, a LOT of people would have stayed hungry a LOT longer after Katrina hit too...

That's exactly the point I was making. I also said TVA was an example of what FDR did right. He also did some things wrong that we're still dealing with today. Like I said, he wasn't the worst, but he wasn't the best either.

I believe the programs that were initiated were vital for the survival of many, however, those programs should have been structured to ease off once the need had passed. They served a specific function of the time. Now, decades later, we have generations who have become dependent on these programs and know of no other way to function. They have a feeling of entitlement.

Someone with compassion and a strong hand needs to come in and accomplish what should have been done decades ago. That, unfortunately, is not going to happen. Those who have grown up on dependence of programs will remain dependent. There is no one strong enough to do the job that needs to be done. We have only ourselves to blame.

I do not endorse the abolishment of these programs, just the modification of them. There are truly people who are in need and for them these are essential. There are just too many who could perform but choose not to and prefer taking advantage of what they believe they are entitled to.

I suppose this is off topic. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:

quote:

Nash, I know a LOT of people who go on Church Missions to help people... without the Churches, a LOT of people would have stayed hungry a LOT longer after Katrina hit too...

That's exactly the point I was making. I also said TVA was an example of what FDR did right. He also did some things wrong that we're still dealing with today. Like I said, he wasn't the worst, but he wasn't the best either.

I know... guess I left out the part that I agreed with ya..... ... but anyway, you are right, he was not the BEST, but he was the BEST The South has ever had... or at least the Tennessee Valley has ever had.

I have noticed throughout this thread how different people view different presidents as good, bad, great, terrible. I believe that a lot of that stems from political party affiliation. I know a lot of the way I see a president is how he affected me personally in my lifetime.
The problem remains tho, is that there is no realistic metric by which to measure the greatness or failure of a particular president.

I like to use the metric of measuring a bad presidency by "how long will it take to straighten out what a president has screwed up".

Maybe the measure of greatness in a president could be "what accomplishments did he lead with that actually helped the nation, the world, and especilly my own life"

These are the things I think of when I stated my best/worst list. Since this post is kinda long winded, I won't give the why's and wherefores unless you ask, but I tried to arrive at the list logically based on those things I stated.