direstraits posted:
Naio posted:
direstraits posted:
Naio posted:
direstraits posted:
Contendahh posted:

Once more, direstraits, you widen the exit flaps of your ideological tent to send forth a reply that avoids the core  issue under discussion, namely which, if any, party conspires to import immigrant adults or children to allegedly be used as "slaves" or illegal child labor? Have the enforcement arms of state and federal labor departments even  identified significant instances of illegal immigrant child labor or "slavery"? Have significant occurrences of actual "slavery" of adults or illegal immigrant child labor been documented anywhere?  Maybe, but you have offered no proof of such.  

 

"It is estimated that 17,000 to 19,0001 foreign nationals are trafficked into the United States each year. Trafficking is the recruitment and possible transport of persons within or across boundaries by force, fraud, or deception for the purpose of exploiting them economically."

https://www.fairus.org/issue/i...ation-illegal-aliens

Human trafficking is the modern term for slavery.  What do you think would have happened to those 7500 children if ICE hadn't taken them into custody? 

 

No wall: 7500 children are saved from human trafficking?

Wall: 7500 children end up victims of human trafficking because the can't find safety?

Wall: parents and others don't attempt to send kids across the border in the first place.

What about the coastlines? Are we going to build walls along those too?

We have a coast guard and navy for such.  Al Gore predicted that the artic ice caps would melt by 2014, resulting in significant increases in the rise of the oceans.  Despite that, progressives still flock to the coasts to live. Are they monumentally ignorant, stupid, or know that Al Bore was lying?

What a great attempt at deflecting the issue instead of admitting how ignorant it would be to build a wall. Have Republicans never heard of tunnels or ladders? They're already tunneling under the border, now. Talk about ignorance.

Contendahh posted:
direstraits posted:
Contendahh posted:

To reiterate:  Which PARTY conspires? Which PARTY "...just change[s] tactics.  Which PARTY "...Import[s] their [emphasis added] slaves including children for cheap labor and pedophiles from south of the border." Where is the HQ of Democratic Slave Traders?  The central theme of your initial post was to blame Democrats. You have not been able to do that.

 

Democrats are reverting to type – founding a neo- Confederacy.  California is the new South Carolina. Add, Oregon, Washington state and Hawaii to complete the set.  New York state and the New England states are the new border states like Missouri, Kentucky and Maryland were.

The old confederacy possessed a small extremely wealthy class, a tiny middle class, slaves and large numbers of whites and free blacks in poverty.   The cotton plantation owners and factors such as Lehman Brothers, who traded in cotton, made up the wealthy class.  The small middle class included doctors, lawyers, larger shop owners and few others that catered to the wealthy.  Slave labor depressed the wages of most others. 

California’s wealthy class are mostly those in IT, show business and a few industries.  Lawyers and doctors, who cater to the aforementioned, form the upper middle class.  The wealthy use imported labor to depress IT wages at one end and unskilled labor to keep their lawn, mansions and such, well manicured and spick and span – mimicking slavery of old.  Use of such depresses the wages of a dwindling middle class.  Add, rising taxes and either those in the middle class become poor or leave the state. California has 12 percent of the nation’s population.  But, one-third of the homeless and one-third of those on welfare. Again, a modern version of the old confederacy, complete with rebellious state governments. 

Labor, whether migrant or other, hired for an agreed-upon work product and wage is not enslaved labor.  That Beverly Hill yard man can walk away from his celebrity employer's shrubbery beds and Dichondra lawn any time he wishes and no one will be sent to retrieve him and return him to be flogged and shackled  in chains to work for free. But if such should be attempted, the perpetrator(s) could be justly accused of unlawful restraint.  Escaped antebellum slaves enjoyed no such protection from Ole Massa's retrieval initiatives. Not a heckuva lot of "mimicry" there, dire, in that most critical and fundamental aspect of slavery, namely ownership of one human being by another.

As to the alleged founding of a neo-Confederacy,  you need look any further than to such arch-Trumpites  as Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, and the GEE OH PEE:      https://www.nationalmemo.com/t...ith-the-confederacy/

Nice try, battie, but no cigar.  Importing illegal aliens to supplant those previously exploited just proves my point. The new plantation owners discovered that using illegals at a less than market rate was cheaper having to care for slaves, always.  After the civil war, plantations owners discovered the same with sharecroppers. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Observe the west coastal states' extreme numbers of homeless among the wealthiest in the nation, if not the world.  As I stated, California has 12 percent of the nation’s population.  But, one-third of the homeless and one-third of those on welfare. Forbes shows that of the 10 wealthiest in the nation, 8 are Democrats.  The other two, the Koch bros, are #NeverTrumpers. 

From the deflecting mind of direstraits:

"We have a coast guard and navy for such.  Al Gore predicted that the artic ice caps would melt by 2014, resulting in significant increases in the rise of the oceans.  Despite that, progressives still flock to the coasts to live. Are they monumentally ignorant, stupid, or know that Al Bore was lying?"

_________________________

The increase in sea level is enough for Miami to spend many millions fighting it. Various island nations also are threatened. It is happening and those who deny it are just deluding themselves.

https://www.businessinsider.co...ise-solutions-2018-4

And how 'bout this octopus in a parking garage in Miami Beach, the kind of thing now occurring because drainage systems cannot adequately handle the tidal ranges experienced recently as a consequence of sea level rise? The locals, both in  the public works departments and in academia understand this far better than the smart alecky climate change deniers afar off.

https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle115688508.html

Contendahh posted:

From the deflecting mind of direstraits:

"We have a coast guard and navy for such.  Al Gore predicted that the artic ice caps would melt by 2014, resulting in significant increases in the rise of the oceans.  Despite that, progressives still flock to the coasts to live. Are they monumentally ignorant, stupid, or know that Al Bore was lying?"

_________________________

The increase in sea level is enough for Miami to spend many millions fighting it. Various island nations also are threatened. It is happening and those who deny it are just deluding themselves.

https://www.businessinsider.co...ise-solutions-2018-4

And how 'bout this octopus in a parking garage in Miami Beach, the kind of thing now occurring because drainage systems cannot adequately handle the tidal ranges experienced recently as a consequence of sea level rise? The locals, both in  the public works departments and in academia understand this far better than the smart alecky climate change deniers afar off.

https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle115688508.html

The year is 2019, not 2014!  Return to reality, not dwell on an old Doctor Who episode. Arctic ice caps intact, largest polar bear population in recorded history. 

direstraits posted:
Naio posted:
direstraits posted:
Naio posted:
direstraits posted:
Contendahh posted:

Once more, direstraits, you widen the exit flaps of your ideological tent to send forth a reply that avoids the core  issue under discussion, namely which, if any, party conspires to import immigrant adults or children to allegedly be used as "slaves" or illegal child labor? Have the enforcement arms of state and federal labor departments even  identified significant instances of illegal immigrant child labor or "slavery"? Have significant occurrences of actual "slavery" of adults or illegal immigrant child labor been documented anywhere?  Maybe, but you have offered no proof of such.  

 

"It is estimated that 17,000 to 19,0001 foreign nationals are trafficked into the United States each year. Trafficking is the recruitment and possible transport of persons within or across boundaries by force, fraud, or deception for the purpose of exploiting them economically."

https://www.fairus.org/issue/i...ation-illegal-aliens

Human trafficking is the modern term for slavery.  What do you think would have happened to those 7500 children if ICE hadn't taken them into custody? 

 

No wall: 7500 children are saved from human trafficking?

Wall: 7500 children end up victims of human trafficking because the can't find safety?

Wall: parents and others don't attempt to send kids across the border in the first place.

What about the coastlines? Are we going to build walls along those too?

We have a coast guard and navy for such.  Al Gore predicted that the artic ice caps would melt by 2014, resulting in significant increases in the rise of the oceans.  Despite that, progressives still flock to the coasts to live. Are they monumentally ignorant, stupid, or know that Al Bore was lying?

We don't need a wall for the coasts.  We just need border patrols and such to protect the southern border. 

I think that if the present political discussion of open borders happened a couple of decades ago, a well known economist, Milton Friedman, would have been on the open borders side with the dems; but not for the same reason. To Friedman, unimpeded immigration would destroy all that the "Great Society" had become; as he was quoted as saying: "It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state."

If Friedman were alive now, I'm not so sure he would believe that the present stoopid dems wouldn't try to have both along with medicaid for all. For Bernie Sanders' baby to be implemented, a Mercatus Center study suggests that essentially that federal revenues would have to double to cover the $32.6 Trillion over a decade cost of the program assuming that doctors, hospitals and drug companies will accept lower payments. I guess that it'll be open season on everyone with a job and that Tina Turner will get several new neighbors.   https://apnews.com/09e06d686a1a481fa76e3fd91f3fcbc2

 

 

I don't think anyone is for free immigration.  It's just funny that people would rather waste money on a wall instead of punishing people who freely hire illegal immigrants.  People want to blame immigrants for depressing wages instead of the people/companies who hire them.  And somehow...it's only because "democrats want votes".  A wall wasn't an issue before trump brought it up.  He only brought it up he because he wants the wall to be his legacy/vanity project.

Contendahh posted:

Tell it it the folks in Miami.  They are still struggling to combat sea level rise.

 

And about that polar ice, it seems you have not followed that issue  very carefully:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

The Arctic is the North Pole area.  The Antarctic is the continent located at the South Pole.  Did you even read the article?  The southern ice that's missing or in danger of melting is on the shelf, not the continent.  Therefore, already in the ocean.  As any student of high school physics would tell you, ice melting loses volume, therefore the sea levels wouldn't rise. 

Naio posted:

I don't think anyone is for free immigration.  It's just funny that people would rather waste money on a wall instead of punishing people who freely hire illegal immigrants.  People want to blame immigrants for depressing wages instead of the people/companies who hire them.  And somehow...it's only because "democrats want votes".  A wall wasn't an issue before trump brought it up.  He only brought it up he because he wants the wall to be his legacy/vanity project.

The largest employers of illegal labor seem to be the wealthy Democrat donors.  They would squeal like pigs. 

direstraits posted:
Contendahh posted:

Tell it it the folks in Miami.  They are still struggling to combat sea level rise.

 

And about that polar ice, it seems you have not followed that issue  very carefully:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

The Arctic is the North Pole area.  The Antarctic is the continent located at the South Pole.  Did you even read the article?  The southern ice that's missing or in danger of melting is on the shelf, not the continent.  Therefore, already in the ocean.  As any student of high school physics would tell you, ice melting loses volume, therefore the sea levels wouldn't rise. 

I believe that during the last interglacial period the average temp was 2o C warmer than today and sea level was 8m (26ft) higher. I might note that every fourth interglacial (Except this one!) was much warmer than the other interglacials and that Greenland either was entirely deglaciated like 800,000 years ago or mostly like 400,000 years ago. Beach front property would be much closer than it is today.

I would add that even if the Arctic ice cap melted, it would not cause sea levels to rise. Most of the ice is sea ice, except for some on the chain of small islands under the ice.  Its Greenland's land based glaciers that would cause a rise in the sea levels, if melted. 

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