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Sorry, but a thought just occurred to me on the topic of support and respect and the fact I give it blindly....consider this on those concepts...

Your parents raised you. Your dad was alcoholic who abused you and your mother. Your mother doesn't defend you the way you felt she should while you were growing up. Your dad passes away and leaves your mother with little for financial support and after years of abuse her health is bad. Do you turn your back on her or do you support her because she is your mother? Keep in mind--she did nothing to stop the abuse of your father. You have little to no respect for you because of this, but you do support and respect because ... she is your mother.

Same concept...Husband and wife married 10 years have 2 kids...wife cheats with another man and they get a divorce. The husband is required by law and by divorce decree to pay child support. At this point, he is not sure both kids are his, but he supports them both. They are children...they have added to life, but now they are draining his finances...he still has to support them...even though he hates his ex and wants nothing to do with her.

The founders of our nation came here to get away from tyranny...they agreed on some things, but most likely not all...but they had common ground. They supported each other and respected each other and gave our nation its beginnings...some may have been earned, but I promise you ... not all...

just my opinion and a thought to think on...
quote:
Originally posted by deadend:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:

Hey Genius 2. I SAID IN, NOT PRIOR TO, 1913. THE INCOME TAX, WHEN INSTUTUTED APPLIED ONLY TO INCOMES OVER 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.


So did you miss his point?
Who were the presideants Prior to 1913?
And what were their party affiliations?

Or did you just ignore it because he matched your point and trumped your historical reference?

I just didn't go down his side track. The income tax has ALWAYS, since it has been applied, been a graduated, or progressive tax. When there was NO income tax, there was NO INCOME TAX.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by deadend:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:

Hey Genius 2. I SAID IN, NOT PRIOR TO, 1913. THE INCOME TAX, WHEN INSTUTUTED APPLIED ONLY TO INCOMES OVER 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.



So did you miss his point?
Who were the presideants Prior to 1913?
And what were their party affiliations?

Or did you just ignore it because he matched your point and trumped your historical reference?

I just didn't go down his side track. The income tax has ALWAYS, since it has been applied, been a graduated, or progressive tax. When there was NO income tax, there was NO INCOME TAX.



Remember when Income Tax wasn't a legal tax? When it was just put into place for some 'help' with the country... it was an illegal tax for many many years, but no one know HOW to stop paying it, or how to 'buck the system' on it, since they took it from you before you ever received your paycheck? lol...

I think that it has just been within the last couple of years or so that Congress/Sentate actually made it a LEGAL TAX...

Remember when the IRS has absolutely NO policing agency? They could do ANYTHING, ANYTIME to ANYONE they wanted. They would tell people to keep returns for 7 years, then on the 8 or even 10th year, they would find out a MISTAKE you made, PLUS the INTERST from it and all of a sudden one owed the IRS more than what they paid for a brand new car?

I am one of those 'pack rats' that keeps everything, I have every single tax year for over 30 years!!! If they go back further than that, they have to get my parents, and that would be next to impossible!!!!

Oh, and to address the speaking out against the American Government makes one UN-American... well that just isn't so. Even GWB said in more than ONE of his speeches that as Americans, we have the RIGHT to not like the government, or how the government is handled, and that it was our DUTY as an American to point those things out..... those are the PRESIDENT's words.. google his speeches, it was in several of them.

When I speak out against Bush, I KNOW I have that RIGHT to do just that because being an American does NOT mean I have to LIKE what crazy decisions are made in Washington... Isn't it GREAT to be American???? We do have freedom of speech... even though it is listened to and read, we still can do it!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
No. My beliefs are based on watching what Carter, Clinton and 40 years worth of Dem congress did to this country. Not real hard to see that conservative principles are the way to go.


Oh my, thank you SO much for the laugh today!!!! It just made my day!!! Carter had 4 years, Clinton had 8, that is 12... and uuummmmm.... Nixon/Ford had 4 years, Reagan had 8 years, George Sr. had 4 years, now Dubbya has had or almost had his 8 years... that is double the time that Republicans had control... and you are still blaming the Democrats, that is the funniest thing I have heard all week!!!

Republicans caused so much damage, that Carter did NOTHING to help at all, in fact, Carter was a President that goes down in history of literally doing NOTHING... nothing right, nothing wrong... ooops, forgot the Geneva Convention, that was pretty good on his part..

Then you expect Clinton to come in and clean up since NIXON???? Well, dagnabit, he did pretty dang good... his morals weren't great, but that is between him and his wife, and the bimbo he messed with.. .. but he did a good job for all he was ALLOWED to do...

Now here comes Dubbya... he has screwd up the whole Nation, had us in war just slightly over a year after taking office, and has given so many reasons and justifications for doing it that it is UNREAL... he has cost the American people so much money it will NEVER be paid back responsibly... and NO ONE in the world, I dont care WHO it is can fix his mess-ups in 8 years... we are talking about at least a 20-40 year fix just from the casualties of Dubbya...

And now, we not only have a warmonger in Wash. we have a lame duck one, and he doesn't CARE anymore what ANY American thinks, what ANY troop thinks,... that puts us all in a very dangerous situation.

This country was much much better 10 years ago than it is now... jobs were more secure, medical insurance actually PAID pretty decently... and people werent afraid every minute of every day that the draft is going to be initiated and that their kids aren't going to have to fight and/or die for something they NEVER have believed in.

The BLIND will never see, the closed mind will never open, and the heads buried under the proverbial sand will just sit there because no one will have the power to pull them out for them. Roll Eyes

ANYONE REMEMBER BIN LADEN??? Didn't think so....

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
KS Quote: "The BLIND will never see, the closed mind will never open, and the heads buried under the proverbial sand will just sit there because no one will have the power to pull them out for them. Roll Eyes"

Great description--exactly what I've been saying about you and others on this topic. You refuse to see our points and we refuse to see yours...I guess we have found common ground finally...

and by the way, if you had read all of my posts you would have noticed that I said you had the right to question your government and your president...never said you didn't have that right -- just think that when you run down your country as much as you do...it makes you look like you really don't like being an american at times...Bin Laden likes people like you because you bash who he bashes and you want to see gone who he wants to see gone, but the thing of it is...had Gore been in the White House where do you think we would be...maybe not in Iraq, but I doubt we'd feel safe from Bin Laden right now either...I do have that feeling at this moment thanks to Bush...

guess we'll have to wait til someone like hillary comes and saves the day...

yea right...I'm outa this one guys...
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
<SNIP>
quote:

Originally posted by logical:
I strongly disagree with you that not supporting whoever happens to win is unamerican. The entire thought is simply ludicrous. If the people who founded this country had thought that way then there would have been no America at all.

No leader should ever be given blind support. Support and respect is something that must be earned.



Thank you for your opinion. With this issue of "support and respect" I could go off on many tangents from the war, to Clinton's impeachment, to illegal immigration, to our justice system, but I won't because if you learn that support and respect given gives more back to you than you could imagine then maybe you can see why I give it freely...

OK, Support and Respect are two different things entirely. I respected the fact that others put Clinton in office -- I didn't vote for him...but if the President of the U.S. doesn't garner my respect and support then what else can?

I was taught as a child that you "respect your elders" and you "respect authority" -- With that "blind respect" often comes support. However, support is many different things--it can be positive and it can be negative...However, I never ran Clinton in the ground--even when I disagreed with him as a man or as the President.

Do you actually think that George Washington had 100% approval from all citizens of what has become the greatest nation in the world? No, but they did support him and they did respect him.

I support our troops that defend my country every day both here and abroad -- have all of them stood in a line of fire and taken a bullet? No, some do the behind the scenes work that never see danger per se, but I still support them and respect for doing their job! Whether I agree or disagree with the war is irrelevant--I support our troops regardless because they took an oath and they are doing their jobs that the commander in Chief ordered them to do...that deserves blind support and blind respect.

I don't have to like something to support it or to respect it...but as an American I choose to do so...

As my last line of that post said..."That is my opinion..." I don't know you from Adam's housecat, but I do respect your right to have an opinion and support you in your quest to stand up for that opiniion...you haven't EARNED anything from me, but I give it...that is American--you using your Rights as a Citizen and me using mine...

That is finding "common ground"...

The history of the Cononial REBELLION against England includes Colonial Loyalist suppor for the Monarchy. It includes a period of 13 years of governance under a Confederation led by the Continental Congress, and THREE Presidents of the Continental Congress Before GWashington became the President of the United States undser the Constitution in 1789. It includes Political divisions that include at least one Duel, It includes the stripping of "Tories" of property, and in some cases, life. Abraham Lincoln was elected President of ALL THE STATES. The Confederate Battle Flag, has stars depicting states that DID NOT SUPPORT OR RESPECT the election of Lincoln.
Sorry folks, but respect of the President is NOT A REQUIREMENT OF PATRIOTISM. Unquestioned Support of the President or the Government has been described as TREASON by Presidents of the United States. In 1918, ex-PresidentTheadore Roosevelt challenged Woodrow Wilson's sweeping crackdown against dissent after the American entry into World War I. "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong," Roosevelt said, "is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." And another snippet of a speech, On Jan. 12, 1848, while the Mexican-American War raged on, a 38-year-old Illinois congressman introduced a measure that would censure former President James K. Polk. During a lengthy speech, that young member of the Illinois House of Representatives called into question Polk's justification for war with Mexico -- a war which was, in the words of the speaker, "unnecessarily and unconstitutionally commenced."

The congressman said Polk would have "gone farther with his proof, if it had not been for the small matter, that the truth would not permit him" and noted that the war was "from beginning to end, the sheerest deception." The congressman exclaimed, "Let him answer fully, fairly and candidly. Let him answer with facts and not with arguments." More importantly, "Let him attempt no evasion, no equivocation." Said, in Congress, In Session, by Illinois Congressman ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
Last edited by Karl Leuba
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...
Well stephanie, this puts us closer to common ground. A lot closer if you will allow me to use Anti-Neo Conservative instead of Anti-American to describe my position.
Since the President is not only a Neo Conservative,and since he has initiated policies designed and intended to further the success of those principals, and since his administration rests on those principals, I find myself in opposition to his administation.\
He rests his administrative philosophy on Neo Conservative Principals as outlined in the Statement of Principals of the Project for the New American Century, and employs managers and administrators who also subscribe to that statement of Principals. Dick Cheney is a co signer of the Statement.
He also employs managers and administrators who are accolytes of Professor Leo Strauss, who was a strong proponent of the Principals that led to the creation of the Project for the New American Century.

Supporters of the President, and His Foreign and Domestic Policies who HAVE NOT READ THE PNAC DOCUMENTS, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND STATEMENTS OF PRINCIPAL are operating in ignorance. The same can be said for those who oppose those principals without knowing what they are.

Principal One (my opinion) The United States has a moral right and obligation to dominate the world economy and the world's political instututions.

Principal Two (MHO) The United States must develop an overwhelming Military Force to prevent any nation from successfully resisting our domination.

I describe these principals as my opinion because they are paraphrase of the principals of the PNAC, and not quotes.

It is MY opinion that these principals are both immoral, and destructive to the character of the United States, and to the security of the people of the world.

LET'S GET ON WITH THE DEBATE.
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
Thank you for your opinion. With this issue of "support and respect" I could go off on many tangents from the war, to Clinton's impeachment, to illegal immigration, to our justice system, but I won't because if you learn that support and respect given gives more back to you than you could imagine then maybe you can see why I give it freely...


True respect can only[b] be given freely. It cannot be ordered, commanded, demanded, or in any way coerced. I give respect freely to those who [b]I feel have earned it. I freely support those causes I feel are worthy. I do not give either simply because someone else thinks that I should do so.

To me, respect is something much more serious than politeness and courtesy.

quote:

OK, Support and Respect are two different things entirely. I respected the fact that others put Clinton in office -- I didn't vote for him...but if the President of the U.S. doesn't garner my respect and support then what else can?

I was taught as a child that you "respect your elders" and you "respect authority" -- With that "blind respect" often comes support. However, support is many different things--it can be positive and it can be negative...However, I never ran Clinton in the ground--even when I disagreed with him as a man or as the President.

Do you actually think that George Washington had 100% approval from all citizens of what has become the greatest nation in the world? No, but they did support him and they did respect him.

I support our troops that defend my country every day both here and abroad -- have all of them stood in a line of fire and taken a bullet? No, some do the behind the scenes work that never see danger per se, but I still support them and respect for doing their job! Whether I agree or disagree with the war is irrelevant--I support our troops regardless because they took an oath and they are doing their jobs that the commander in Chief ordered them to do...that deserves blind support and blind respect.

I don't have to like something to support it or to respect it...but as an American I choose to do so...


Respect has nothing to do with liking something, nor does it have anything to do with being an American. It is something that an individual human being decides to give or not and for reasons which only matter to themselves.

quote:

As my last line of that post said..."That is my opinion..." I don't know you from Adam's housecat, but I do respect your right to have an opinion and support you in your quest to stand up for that opiniion...you haven't EARNED anything from me, but I give it...that is American--you using your Rights as a Citizen and me using mine...

That is finding "common ground"...
Logical--you are correct in your comments...those are your opinions just as my opinions are mine...I see your point that it should not be given freely--no coerced or demanded...especially if it is not worthy...but my comments were about the President who has been elected two times to office--in that, he has earned my respect...I respect him in his capacity as President...I don't always agree with what he does, but I pray for him--I support him in that respect...no one ever asked HOW I supported him...Support means to hold up -- I hold him up to the Lord...I can't do anything about some of what is going on, but God can...I choose to respect him ... it is my choice...

but thank you for pointing that out...I do appreciate it...
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...


I believe you are making an unsupportable leap here. Do you honestly believe that everyone should just silently go along with everything that the Government or President does and that those who have the audacity to speak out are Anti-American?

That seems to be a prevalent attitude these days. Perhaps we need a new committee on unAmerican activities to investigate. It worked out so well the last time...
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
Logical--you are correct in your comments...those are your opinions just as my opinions are mine...I see your point that it should not be given freely--no coerced or demanded...especially if it is not worthy...but my comments were about the President who has been elected two times to office--in that, he has earned my respect...I respect him in his capacity as President...I don't always agree with what he does, but I pray for him--I support him in that respect...no one ever asked HOW I supported him...Support means to hold up -- I hold him up to the Lord...I can't do anything about some of what is going on, but God can...I choose to respect him ... it is my choice...

but thank you for pointing that out...I do appreciate it...


Yes, Bush has been elected president twice. I accept that since I have respect for our constitution. However, I do not respect Bush either as a man or as President since I feel he has disrespected the office of the President and the Constitution through many of his actions.

I'm glad that you pray for him. Everyone should give that kind of support to everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by logical:
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...


I believe you are making an unsupportable leap here. Do you honestly believe that everyone should just silently go along with everything that the Government or President does and that those who have the audacity to speak out are Anti-American?

That seems to be a prevalent attitude these days. Perhaps we need a new committee on unAmerican activities to investigate. It worked out so well the last time...



No, Logical, I don't think we should sit idley (sp) by and just watch, but I do think that at some point when our comments are completely 100% negative about our nation, our president, anything that has to do with America -- that is anti-American...not everything going on these days inside the govt or outside the is negative. If you read back through ALL of the posts as to how that term came about you would see what i am talking about...there are certain people that post on this forum that nothing is ever good enough--nothing is ever positive--and they can't or won't give solutions to the problems they just blame everyone else for their lot in life...they blame Bush for EVERYTHING..it is to the point it is ridiculus...

In the other posts and I will say it again..the Constitution gives you the right as an American citizen to voice your opinions...I just think that at some point, you have to look at what you are saying and see if there is a flaw in your thinking or if you can offer something to the debate to make things better...read back through the posts...you may not agree with me, but you will see what my comments are referring too...I will defend my comments -- they are my opinions as is my Right and yours...

At some point, you have to get out of the pit and choose to see the sunshine...that is what I have done and I just wish others could see this whole thread for what it is about ... careful not to take things out of context ...

Keep the comments coming though -- the essence of what EdEKit and others want to "debate" he has carried to another thread along with my initial comment taken out of context...if you want to continue this -- feel free to go to that thread and discuss the issues ... I think he addressed the thread to me..STEPHANIE AND OTHERS or something....
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
KS Quote: "The BLIND will never see, the closed mind will never open, and the heads buried under the proverbial sand will just sit there because no one will have the power to pull them out for them. Roll Eyes"

Great description--exactly what I've been saying about you and others on this topic. You refuse to see our points and we refuse to see yours...I guess we have found common ground finally...

and by the way, if you had read all of my posts you would have noticed that I said you had the right to question your government and your president...never said you didn't have that right -- just think that when you run down your country as much as you do...it makes you look like you really don't like being an american at times...Bin Laden likes people like you because you bash who he bashes and you want to see gone who he wants to see gone, but the thing of it is...had Gore been in the White House where do you think we would be...maybe not in Iraq, but I doubt we'd feel safe from Bin Laden right now either...I do have that feeling at this moment thanks to Bush...

guess we'll have to wait til someone like hillary comes and saves the day...

yea right...I'm outa this one guys...



Very true... and the beauty of the situation and of life in general is that we can AGREE to DISAGREE, and leave friends, or rather with respect...

I know (smurph knows too) that one day, she and I went at it like wildcats,... and yes, both of us were angry and wouldn't budge an inch... with a little time, we finally reached a GREAT mutual respect, and even a friendship, which I am thankful for.... it can happen, even if one doesn't agree with another...

Heck, my BELOVED brother, whom I love with all my heart is semi-republican... but I won't go into that... but you can only IMAGINE what he and my political conversations have been ... lol...

Agree to disagree???? Nothing but good can come out of that decision.. Smiler

Besides, you are a very intelligent lady, and I don't want to lose anything I may ever learn from you.

And you guys will have to put up with me ALL the time in little over a year when I finally RETIRE!!!! yay!
quote:
Originally posted by imho:
Liberals want...
to change the subject every time someone points out their failures.
Bluesmann - you went way off subject - I didn't mention gambling by the rich/poor - I was talking about those buying lottery tickets.

Liberals want...
to forget what immorality in the White House for 8 years did to our country.
KS - do you know what Muslim Extremists think about women? Do you know how women are treated in their society?

What in my post was not true?
Why don't liberals stand behind what they post?


Sure, Your telling the world that one Blow-Job, and this country was in ruin-nation?

But the deficite was no longer an issue then was it, like it is now? I mean $60 billion a day in interest alone we pay out. this is what the Bush administration has done to our country, come-on wake up! Your about to lose your country by this idiot BUSH!

Semper Fi,(carry on citizens)
KS---I can honestly say tht in any of my posts except for one with Ed--I have not been anywhere close to anger...The stuff we are posting about is not life or death to me -- I don't get so caught up in it that I can't walk away from it -- some of you I think take it WAY too seriously...When it gets to that point, I will walk away...there is no reason to waste my energy being angry about things I cannot fix and that is why I have posted so much about your negativity...I don't see how you function with that much negativity about things and still have hope for tomorrow...that is what I have thought about you and others...it seems that there is nothing positive in the world and Bush is the culprit...

My whole point was to try to get you to take a step back and listen to yourself...I can agree to disagree...I look at the posts and I do think about my own convictions and where I stand and if osmething I had read had made me change my view I would admit it, but all most of the posts I have read this weekend have made me think is ... how sad that you can't find goodand post it -- Of course, I guess good stuff is not what gets the headlines these days...or the most hits on a forum...YOu commented that I fly through here and leave a post without truly reading them or having a clue--a troll--that couldn't be further from the truth...Granted I'm not rushing to post so I can be a Hall of Famer, but I am not a post & runner...I have been reading the forum for a while now and that is why my opinion of yours and others posts is that you are trying to control the board and run off people that don't think like you or agree with you or follow the "rules" like you think they should...most all has been negative...negativity feeds off negativity...I will admit I have not been as positive as i should have been in responding, but by the time I felt I should post--ya'll had me extremely sad and frustrated by your opinons...

I can say we won't ever see eye to eye on Hillary, or most of the ones in the running at the moment--I am not a Democrat nor a Liberal...I want America to be here for my kids in the future and for it to be the great nation I have grown up in...If we are to continue this conversation as I said to Logical -- let's move it to the new thread Ed started in my name...Stephanie and other comers...he took my post and started a thread to debate the issues...This was has goten off topic I guess, but I just don't want to confuse anyone with my thoughts or beliefs...

Agree or Disagree???
Last edited by DixieChik
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
KS---I can honestly say tht in any of my posts except for one with Ed--I have not been anywhere close to anger...The stuff we are posting about is not life or death to me -- I don't get so caught up in it that I can't walk away from it -- some of you I think take it WAY too seriously...When it gets to that point, I will walk away...there is no reason to waste my energy being angry about things I cannot fix and that is why I have posted so much about your negativity...I don't see how you function with that much negativity about things and still have hope for tomorrow...that is what I have thought about you and others...it seems that there is nothing positive in the world and Bush is the culprit...

My whole point was to try to get you to take a step back and listen to yourself...I can agree to disagree...I look at the posts and I do think about my own convictions and where I stand and if osmething I had read had made me change my view I would admit it, but all most of the posts I have read this weekend have made me think is ... how sad that you can't find goodand post it -- Of course, I guess good stuff is not what gets the headlines these days...or the most hits on a forum...YOu commented that I fly through here and leave a post without truly reading them or having a clue--a troll--that couldn't be further from the truth...Granted I'm not rushing to post so I can be a Hall of Famer, but I am not a post & runner...I have been reading the forum for a while now and that is why my opinion of yours and others posts is that you are trying to control the board and run off people that don't think like you or agree with you or follow the "rules" like you think they should...most all has been negative...negativity feeds off negativity...I will admit I have not been as positive as i should have been in responding, but by the time I felt I should post--ya'll had me extremely sad and frustrated by your opinons...

I can say we won't ever see eye to eye on Hillary, or most of the ones in the running at the moment--I am not a Democrat nor a Liberal...I want America to be here for my kids in the future and for it to be the great nation I have grown up in...If we are to continue this conversation as I said to Logical -- let's move it to the new thread Ed started in my name...Stephanie and other comers...he took my post and started a thread to debate the issues...This was has goten off topic I guess, but I just don't want to confuse anyone with my thoughts or beliefs...

Agree or Disagree???



Personally, I would NEVER want to run anyone off the forum, UNLESS it was proven that they posted under 2 different accounts for back-up purposes... I have seen a lot of that.

Since you mention "Hall of Famer", I will have to say that even though it shows my membership as being in Nov 2006, I joined this forum months and months before then... back when it was VERY hard to navigate... and got to know a lot of people on here that were also members way back when. So I am not new to this, by a long shot...

Secondly, I never said I LIKED Hillary, I just am not going to sit here and tell everyone that I hate her because that would not be true either, ... I will say that reading her bio, and watching it on A & E Television, she is a genius, very high IQ, and to me that is something that should be respected. I only WISH I had her brain power!!! That cannot be taken away from her whether one likes her or not. Neither can her Medical Care revamp program, she did that using her genius brain, and everyone that I KNOW personally had much better insurance coverage then than now.

But vote for her? Never said that... My favorite person USED to be McCain, but that is getting way to iffy right now... besides, it is so early in time that I sincerely have NO idea on who to vote for, nor will I until close to election time.

This is the first time that "I" can remember in my 50+ years that the campaigning started SO EARLY ... by the time elections get here, probably everyone will be so sick of it NO one will vote, lol... j/k!!!

I am going to go to the new link with your name on it....

Whether you believe it or not, I am a hit and miss replier on here... and have been that way for a year... I have a full time job, a Dad who is getting old and in bad health that I have to take care of, 3 grandsons that monopolize a lot of my time when I am not working, and other things in my life that keeps me away from home/computer. So the Hall of Famer Title I have is NOT from sitting on the computer all the time, in fact, you would be surprised at how little time is actually spent on here because I have another website I go to that I have been a member of for 6 years and love it... And I get on there when I can too.

Being a Hall of Famer was not my goal, didn't even matter to me at all, it just happened.

I will try to check out some other posts now, before I have to get off here, lol.. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...
This reply is attached to this post because it is convienent. You have put several comments up, I am getting a feel for your opinion.

You seem to have an expectation that I should be NICE. You did not say that specifically, but it seems your criticism of me, is based on my criticism of Bush, and a stand that somehow he deserves respect. HE IS A LIAR. I can't bring myself to respect him. I have the same problem with Clinton, but at least he STOPPED defending the lie, and admitted the truth...he had to be backed into a corner and verbally WHIPPED, but he backed down. Bush is not tough, when caught in a lie he makes excuses, or tells another lie to defend the first one. If he were tough, the way he claims to be tough, he would have taken a more effective strategy for fighting terrorism, and he would NEVER have target Iraq for it. Iraq was not guilty as charged. Hussain was far from innocent. He was hanged for killing people, not fomenting terrorism.
In my vocabulary, the ultimate insult, and I don't use it often, is POSER. Bush is a poser. He is a Fake Texan. He is a Fake Warrior, He is a Fake Christian. He is posing and posturing all the time. Personally, I don't think GW Bush even chews gum right. NOW, YOU KNOW, I HAVE UTTERLY NO RESPECT FOR GW BUSH.
But, you already kenw that didn't you.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...
This reply is attached to this post because it is convienent. You have put several comments up, I am getting a feel for your opinion.

You seem to have an expectation that I should be NICE. You did not say that specifically, but it seems your criticism of me, is based on my criticism of Bush, and a stand that somehow he deserves respect. HE IS A LIAR. I can't bring myself to respect him. I have the same problem with Clinton, but at least he STOPPED defending the lie, and admitted the truth...he had to be backed into a corner and verbally WHIPPED, but he backed down. Bush is not tough, when caught in a lie he makes excuses, or tells another lie to defend the first one. If he were tough, the way he claims to be tough, he would have taken a more effective strategy for fighting terrorism, and he would NEVER have target Iraq for it. Iraq was not guilty as charged. Hussain was far from innocent. He was hanged for killing people, not fomenting terrorism.
In my vocabulary, the ultimate insult, and I don't use it often, is POSER. Bush is a poser. He is a Fake Texan. He is a Fake Warrior, He is a Fake Christian. He is posing and posturing all the time. Personally, I don't think GW Bush even chews gum right. NOW, YOU KNOW, I HAVE UTTERLY NO RESPECT FOR GW BUSH.
But, you already kenw that didn't you.



Yes, and btw, I don't expect you to be nice...just not so "bashing" all the time.. Like I told KS -- I just get the feeling you are always in "bash mode" -- I can see your point, but with the attitude that gets in the way sometime -- it turns me (and others) off -- you've said you have an agenda -- I could agree with you if I could see your agenda and not just your negativity about it all -- does that make sense???

I'm not unreasonable and can see both sides of anything but your offense always puts me on defense -- maybe that is a better way to put it...
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by stephanie:
OK, let me re-word that then since "unAmerican" apparently is not correct -- "ANTI-AMERICAN" THEN.

I have never said that it was REQUIREMENT...it is a RIGHT...

But when you constantly berate your country and berate your President and have nothing positive to say about anything going on this country -- that is ANTI-AMERICAN...

In my humble opinion---being Anti-American is UnAmerican...I am entitled to my opinion...
This reply is attached to this post because it is convienent. You have put several comments up, I am getting a feel for your opinion.

You seem to have an expectation that I should be NICE. You did not say that specifically, but it seems your criticism of me, is based on my criticism of Bush, and a stand that somehow he deserves respect. HE IS A LIAR. I can't bring myself to respect him. I have the same problem with Clinton, but at least he STOPPED defending the lie, and admitted the truth...he had to be backed into a corner and verbally WHIPPED, but he backed down. Bush is not tough, when caught in a lie he makes excuses, or tells another lie to defend the first one. If he were tough, the way he claims to be tough, he would have taken a more effective strategy for fighting terrorism, and he would NEVER have target Iraq for it. Iraq was not guilty as charged. Hussain was far from innocent. He was hanged for killing people, not fomenting terrorism.
In my vocabulary, the ultimate insult, and I don't use it often, is POSER. Bush is a poser. He is a Fake Texan. He is a Fake Warrior, He is a Fake Christian. He is posing and posturing all the time. Personally, I don't think GW Bush even chews gum right. NOW, YOU KNOW, I HAVE UTTERLY NO RESPECT FOR GW BUSH.
But, you already kenw that didn't you.



Yes, and btw, I don't expect you to be nice...just not so "bashing" all the time.. Like I told KS -- I just get the feeling you are always in "bash mode" -- I can see your point, but with the attitude that gets in the way sometime -- it turns me (and others) off -- you've said you have an agenda -- I could agree with you if I could see your agenda and not just your negativity about it all -- does that make sense???

I'm not unreasonable and can see both sides of anything but your offense always puts me on defense -- maybe that is a better way to put it...


WOW!!! Why do "I" have to be brought in on EVERY comment you make Stephanie? I didn't even say anything about anything listed above... ya got me wondering now, lol... just gotta figure it all out, which at MY age, should take a while Big Grin
Stephanie, Here is a link to something political and Positive: http://www.chavezfoundation.org/

Cesar Chavez organized farm Laborers, His work has improved conditions in the fields for Non Resident Alien workers. He has helped to raise the standard of living for hundreds of thousands of people in the Southwest. He is sometimes compared to Dr Martin Luther King. His work has an influence on My thinking on the topic of Immigration.
Notice that the event is being sponsored in part by Fox News Phoenix, and the City of Phoenix. I hope to attend the event with some of my Mexican neighbors.
What Liberals Really Want.
http://www.liberalparty.org/JFKLPAcceptance.html What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
If the conservatives have their way, the Bible would be the constitution of the United States.
The liberals believe in the constitution of the United States. Most conservatives would like to ban it. God wants us to obey the laws of the land. He knew that there would be governments but God did not mean for us to support corruption of government.

God knew that there would be sin and this is why God wants you to spread his word and teach. But you cannot force God on anyone. Even God does not force himself on anyone. This is why we have to have tolerance for people who do not accept God. Perhaps they do not break the laws of the land but just refuse to be a Christian or to accept God.



Gays and abortion. These are two issues that I don't think government should control. Whether you outlaw abortion or make it legal, there will be women to choose abortion. Whether you outlaw gays or allow it, you will still have gays. Again, you can teach people of the gay issues and the abortion issues but if they refuse to listen, then you've done all you can do. That would be between them and God. Why should I be concerned whether your daughter is gay or not as long as she does not force her issues on me. Why should I worry whether your daughter gets an abortion or not? When she choose the abortion, that was her right, not mine. And she will have to deal with God on that issue as to whether it was right or wrong.


Why do conservatives complain about people posting stuff that they don't agree with? Because they don't want you to become wise and get educated. If you don't research, ask questions, and want to learn, this is what the conservatives love because they know more than you. So continue to get educated. Don't believe everything the mainstream media is telling you. Learn the meaning of conservative, right wing, left wing, corporate democrat, corporate republican. For your benefit, learn the meaning of all of this.

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