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Bill's attitudinal problems and his  misplaced loyalties in false teachers might just lie at the core of his disordered attitude and behavior.  Read up on the czarist-like self-anointed super pastor control freak, Chuck Smith, and it will become obvious that those who follow him expose themselves to all kinds of opportunities for anti-social behavior: 

 

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<<<Chuck Smith, Calvary's founder, developed a church model based on near-absolute sovereignty of the senior pastor. “I feel my primary responsibility is to the Lord,” he explained to Christianity Today in 2007. “And one day I'm going to answer to him, not to a board of elders.” Though Smith described church budgeting as a collective process to Christianity Today, Calvary Chapel pastors have little requirement to disclose church finances to members or even other leaders, according to other Calvary members who say they were given the cold shoulder when they asked for more information.>>>

 

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<<<Though Smith’s Calvary “distinctives” (PDF) exalt the authority of individual pastors, Calvary churches are never completely exempt from meddling by Smith or other powerful figures in the movement. One of those figures is Skip Heitzig, the founding pastor of Calvary Albuquerque, and perhaps the most prominent public face of the evangelical community’s mourning of Greg Griego, who also served as a pastor there.>>>

 

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<<<Chuck Smith has injected himself into conflicts in other Calvary churches, almost always on the side of authorities accused of abuses. According to the Christianity Today investigation, Smith protected several Calvary pastors who were accused of having affairs and sexually harassing women on the grounds that they were “great Bible teachers” who would be “totally destroyed” if they weren’t helped by the church. Smith rehired at least two leaders who had been fired by other Calvary churches for sexual misconduct. According to Christianity Today, another employee of one of Smith’s churches in California, who was arrested for having sex with a 15-year-old girl, had already been fired from a different ministry at Smith’s church for having sex with a woman on church property. Smith denies that the employee’s initial firing was sex-related, but several leaders and pastors confirmed it to Christianity Today.>>>

 

 http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...l-s-tangled-web.html

 

Hers is a thorough analysis of Calvary Chapel problems and issues from the respected magazine, Christianity Today:

http://www.christianitytoday.c...7.53.html?paging=off

 

WHAT'S UP-CHUCK??

 

I yam what I yam and that's all I yam--but it is enough!

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Hi Contendah,

 

Literally millions can attribute being Christian believers -- directly or indirectly -- to the work Chuck Smith has done since he became the pastor at a small church (about 15-20 people) in Costa Mesa, California, in 1965.

 

There are thousands of churches across America and around the world -- all of which grew out of that one small church in Costa Mesa.  A large percentage of those churches are what we would call megachurches in membership size; many of them have schools, K-12, and a large number offer Bible Colleges.

 

As I have always said when I look at men like Billy Graham and Chuck Smith -- how little I have done for the Lord compared to these spiritual giants.

 

In 1970, my dad died.  After the memorial service, my mom and a long time friend, a pastor's wife, Mrs. Gipson, walked out of the small country chapel near Russellvile together.  When I met them outside, Mrs. Gipson looked at me and told me, "Do you know who you remind me of?  Billy Graham.  One day I hope to see you preaching the Gospel just like him."

 

At that time, I was far, far from being any kind of Christian believer.   But, not wanting to be impolite to this dear lady, I just smiled.  But, inside I was saying, "Lady, you have to be nuts!  Who wants to be a pulpit pounding preacher like him?"

 

Well, let me tell you.  Since I became a believer in 1987 -- I would give anything to be even 1% as effective for the Lord as Billy Graham or Chuck Smith.

 

So, Contendah, that is Chuck Smith's record in sharing the Gospel and pointing folks toward a life in Christ.

 

How does YOUR record stack up against his?   How many folks have you led to the Lord?  How many folks are believers today because of YOU and what you have done for the Lord?  How is YOUR Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) work coming along?

 

No, God will not judge you based upon that result.  But, maybe you should start looking more critically at yourself -- and less critically at those who are doing God's work.  Just a thought!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Cross On Hill - Romans 1-16_1

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Contendah,

 

Literally millions can attribute being Christian believers -- directly or indirectly -- to the work Chuck Smith has done since he became the pastor at a small church (about 15-20 people) in Costa Mesa, California, in 1965.

 

There are thousands of churches across America and around the world -- all of which grew out of that one small church in Costa Mesa.  A large percentage of those churches are what we would call megachurches in membership size; many of them have schools, K-12, and a large number offer Bible Colleges.

 

As I have always said when I look at men like Billy Graham and Chuck Smith -- how little I have done for the Lord compared to these spiritual giants.

 

In 1970, my dad died.  After the memorial service, my mom and a long time friend, a pastor's wife, Mrs. Gipson, walked out of the small country chapel near Russellvile together.  When I met them outside, Mrs. Gipson looked at me and told me, "Do you know who you remind me of?  Billy Graham.  One day I hope to see you preaching the Gospel just like him."

 

At that time, I was far, far from being any kind of Christian believer.   But, not wanting to be impolite to this dear lady, I just smiled.  But, inside I was saying, "Lady, you have to be nuts!  Who wants to be a pulpit pounding preacher like him?"

 

Well, let me tell you.  Since I became a believer in 1987 -- I would give anything to be even 1% as effective for the Lord as Billy Graham or Chuck Smith.

 

So, Contendah, that is Chuck Smith's record in sharing the Gospel and pointing folks toward a life in Christ.

 

How does YOUR record stack up against his?   How many folks have you led to the Lord?  How many folks are believers today because of YOU and what you have done for the Lord?  How is YOUR Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20, Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15) work coming along?

 

No, God will not judge you based upon that result.  But, maybe you should start looking more critically at yourself -- and less critically at those who are doing God's work.  Just a thought!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Cross On Hill - Romans 1-16_1

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Bill, 

 

You are very carefully selective in what part of Chuck Smith's history you choose to highlight, totally ignoring the information I posted concerning him and his cult.

 

Those I have led to the Lord I taught the full gospel to, not the truncated false gospel of Chuck Smith--the "just believe and say the sinner's prayer" claptrap so widely taught today. I never engendered the false confidence that Chuck Smith teaches with his "once saved-always saved"

false doctrine.

 

From Jesus:  "Not everyone that saith to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven."

 

Satan could have contrived no more demonically successful way to claim souls than to persuade men that they have done all that is necessary to be saved when in fact they have not.

Hi Contendah,

 

You tell me, "You are very carefully selective in what part of Chuck Smith's history you choose to highlight, totally ignoring the information I posted concerning him and his cult."

 

No, my Friend, I have told you factual information about Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith.  Do I have a personal interest in either?   No, other than the fact that I have personally seen the amazing impact both have had around the world for God and on the Christian communities.  I am not a member of any Calvary Chapel, nor have I ever been.  I have been to Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa once for a Bible study on Revelation -- and I did attend an Eschatology Conference at another Calvary Chapel church.  But, for many years, I have listened to KWVE Christian Radio, their flagship Christian radio station in Orange County, and learned a lot over the years from various Calvary Chapel pastors.  And, I do have Friends who attend various Calvary Chapels.

 

That said, let's look at your "source of information."  Christianity Today, and obviously their editor-at-large (Moll) -- is a very liberal publication.  I have seen them come out in favor of many issues which only a liberal could support.

 

So, let's look at Chuck Smith.  He is senior pastor of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa -- the church which has spawned literally thousands of daughter churches and schools around the world.   Calvary Chapel is much like most Baptist churches -- each local church is autonomous.   So, Chuck Smith is not the senior pastor for all those thousands of churches.  That said, most of them do consider him their honorary senior, or founding, pastor and give him respect as such.  Calvary Chapel is not a denomination, but is a movement.

 

Only once have I seen Chuck Smith "so call" take the bull by the horns.  Several years ago, when it became obvious that the cancer called the "emerging church" was creeping into different Calvary Chapel local churches.  At their annual pastors meeting that year, Chuck Smith issued a White Paper defining this unBiblical cancer of emerging church teachings -- and asked that any Calvary Chapel church which insists upon following that path -- please remove the Calvary Chapel name from their church.  He did not want the Calvary Chapel church name blackened by this unBiblical movement.   Unfortunately, at that time his son, Chuck Smith, Jr., chose to leave the fold.  He has since returned and left the emerging church teachings behind.

 

Let me finish this by saying that if a person with such a high profile as Chuck Smith did not have people such as Christianity Today and Moll gunning for him -- I would have to wonder if he is doing his job properly.  Yes, a successful Christian pastor will have detractors -- for people like Chuck Smith do not teach the "feel good" messages of folks like Joel Osteen and all the "feel good, bring me the money" Prosperity Preachers.

 

As far as any sexual cover-ups, I have never heard of any.  I do know that about 15 years ago, Pastor David Hocking of Calvary Church of Santa Ana (not affiliated with Calvary Chapel) had a problem with a lady which cost him his position at that church and his very successful radio teaching ministry.

 

David Hocking was, and is, an amazing Bible teacher and pastor -- and Chuck Smith stepped in to help him, to keep that valuable teaching resource from being lost to the Christian community.  He did not bring Hocking into Calvary Chapel as a pastor; but, did help him get started teaching Bible studies again.  Since then, David Hocking has been fully restored into the Christian community and has a very active teaching and pastoral ministry once again, in an independent non-denominational church.  I praise God for Chuck Smith stepping in and helping him to be restored.  That is what true Christians are called to do.

Next, you tell me, "Those I have led to the Lord I taught the full gospel to, not the truncated false gospel of Chuck Smith -- the 'just believe and say the sinner's prayer' claptrap so widely taught today.  I never engendered the false confidence that Chuck Smith teaches with his 'once saved-always saved' false doctrine."

 

So, that is your beef with Chuck Smith.  Not that he is not a man of God, not that he is not a good pastor and Bible teacher -- but, that his theology is different from your legalistic, liberal, Amillennial theology.   Well, that being the case -- there must be literally many hundreds of thousands of "Chuck Smith" type pastors and Bible teachers whom you HATE!   For our conservative Christian theology and our Premillennial eschatological views -- are, by far, the most predominant positions in the Christian world today.

 

So, since you HATE all those many pastors -- I suppose you have just chosen Chuck Smith to be your representative "pastor to trash."   True, it would be hard for you to trash all those hundreds of thousands -- so, you unleash your venom toward Chuck Smith.  My Friend, he has had bigger and better, and more informed folks than you attempting to pull him down over the years. 

 

So, your little venomous tantrums are like a baby mosquito bite to such a person.  But, if it make you feel more holy to attempt to pull down a person who has done so much more for the Lord than you or I ever will -- then go for it!  

 

Did you ever hear the story of the flea crawing up an elephant's leg -- with rape on its mind?   Just curious.

 

By the way, we can see how effective Chuck Smith has been at leading folks to the Lord.  But, how about you -- how many have YOU led to the Lord?   You said, "Those I have led to the Lord. . . "  Approximately how many have YOU led to the Lord?   I will admit that I have only led a few; but, then, my ministry is writing -- so I really have no idea where and whom I have impacted.  But, from you statement, I would assume that you are holding a much more active evangelical position.  So, my Friend, how many?  How do you compare with Chuck Smith?

 

Contendah, I would never compare you to the nuts at Westboro Baptist -- but, can't you see that your hatred of all who follow a different theology than your legalistic theology -- borders on the same level of hatred?   My Friend, I beg you to do some serious soul searching.


God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Bill Gray--

 

Once more you play the HATE card in your response to what I posted.  Well, that is just bunkum, Bill.  It is another of the cheap stratagems you employ in order to seek an advantage over someone you disagree with.  You yourself have stated that you do not "hate" homosexuals, but that you hate the sin of homosexuality.  The same hate-the-sin--love-the-sinner approach has often been used by others to characterize  attitudes toward behaviors or beliefs with which a writer or speaker disagrees without hatred.   Am I for some reason disqualified from employing the same perspective with regard to my view of Chuck Smith's teaching? No.  But your cheap use of such a flawed critique does make you look ever more the hypocrite.

 

Your cult favorite, Chuck Smith, whatever else his view on church governance might be, has shown himself to be a failed and amateurish interpreter of Biblical teaching on that subject.  The link below is to a skilful analysis of the New Testament teaching on the subject of church leadership and particularly on the role of "elders" or "bishops."  These terms are used interchangeably in scripture to describe the very same office within the church, but Smith's clumsy interpretation not only tries to make a distinction between the two, but also faults the scriptures for lack of clarity on this matter.   Read here about Smith’s egregious, amateurish, and self-serving misconstruction of the New Testament teaching: 

 

http://www.modernpulpit.com/20...s-church-government/

 

The discussion in the above-cited link refers to Chuck Smith's own teaching in "Calvary Distinctives," an online Calvary Chapel publication that can be accessed here:

 

http://calvarywilliamsburg.org...pel-distinctives.pdf

 

From this site, we find these assertions by Smith:

 

<<<<We recognize that the New Testament doesn't give a clear definitive statement
of God's preference for church government.>>>>

 

<<<<The New Testament clearly teaches the establishing of bishops, the episkopos,
and the appointing of elders, the presbyteros. These two forms of government,
by their very nature, seem to clash. Is the church to be led by the bishop, or by
the board of elders? Is it the episkopos or the presbyteros?>>>>

 

The first link I provided is a scholarly, Biblically sound, hermeneutically correct discussion of church governance that makes it very clear the "bishop" and "elder" refer to the same office. There is no confusion or ambiguity to be found in the Word of God where these terms are used, provided the reader “rightly divid[es] the word of truth,” something Smith failed to do.  A similar discussion of these terms  is provided by the notable theologian and commentator,  William Barclay  in his commentary on 1 Timothy 3: 1-7.  If there is any confusion on this matter, it is in the confused mind of Chuck Smith.

 

If there is any remaining doubt on the matter, these few verses  should clear it up:

 

<<<For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.  For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre...."  (Titus 1: 5-7)

 

Of course, Smith’s really big departure from the scriptural model of church governance is his positioning the “senior pastor” (a concept absent from scripture) at the head of it, whereas the New Testament places the elders or bishops in that role:

 

In Acts  20:28, in Paul’s instructions to the ELDERS of the Ephesian church, he  told them, “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hat made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

 

Smith’s invention of this “senior pastor” concept is, of course, a contrivance to support the role he arrogates to himself, wherein he answers to no higher rule or authority within the church, but becomes himself the authority--a patently unscriptural concept, but one that will be accepted by those who accept Smith’s dictums without themselves searching the scriptures for the revealed truth on this matter.

 

So you see, Bill, I have a very fundamental problem with Chuck Smith, because I see him as having embraced a theologically clumsy, fundamentally unsound and unscriptural model of governance for the church that Christ purchased with His own blood.  You, Bill, ought also to distance yourself from Smith’s distorted concept of church governance.

 

Common sense and the record of history instructs us of the risk of placing too much authority upon a single individual in a church or in today’s various para-church organizations.  All too often, this one-man rule results in confusion, corruption, and heresy.  God’s wisdom is seen in His establishment of  a model for church governance, involving a plurality of men who meet clearly-defined criteria for that kind of leadership role.  Those who, like Chuck Smith, would substitute their system for God’s should be rebuked and corrected.  Perhaps you could pass this on to Chuck or to others of the Calvary Chapel affiliation, since you appear to be maintaining linkages with that cult.

Originally Posted by Contendah:

Bill Gray--

Once more you play the HATE card in your response to what I posted.  Well, that is just bunkum, Bill.  It is another of the cheap stratagems you employ in order to seek an advantage over someone you disagree with.  You yourself have stated that you do not "hate" homosexuals, but that you hate the sin of homosexuality.
______
Never have associated Bunkum to Bill Gray but that word completely describes the ole fool.
Were you not in class the day Billy came out about his homosexuality on this forum?
 
 
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Contendah:

Bill Gray--

Once more you play the HATE card in your response to what I posted.  Well, that is just bunkum, Bill.  It is another of the cheap stratagems you employ in order to seek an advantage over someone you disagree with.  You yourself have stated that you do not "hate" homosexuals, but that you hate the sin of homosexuality.
______
Never have associated Bunkum to Bill Gray but that word completely describes the ole fool.
Were you not in class the day Billy came out about his homosexuality on this forum?
 semi, do you have a copy of it?
 

 

Hi Vic,

 

For once, my Friend, you and I are on the same page.  I would also love to see Chick's proof.  But, then we must all keep in mind that Chick is just an embittered agnostic who gets upset because we Christians tell her that she MUST choose between heaven and hell.

 

That is true, Chick.   NO ONE can send you to hell -- except you.  I cannot condemn you to hell, no other person can condemn you to hell, even God cannot condemn you to hell.   ONLY YOU can condemn YOU to hell.

 

Choose well,  Chick, my Friend -- for eternity is a very, very, very LONG TIME!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bless My Friend Mouse

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Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Never have associated Bunkum to Bill Gray but that word completely describes the ole fool.
Were you not in class the day Billy came out about his homosexuality on this forum?
 semi, do you have a copy of it?
---------------------------------------------
He did not so much as admit to homosexuality but wrote of curiosity about it... Several called him on it and he didn't respond, leaving the impression that the understanding was correct... Some even associated it with his late night walks alone in the park... 
I think this is during a period when you were out if pocket, or at least notposting much...It's out there but you'd have to wade through the archives...
 
 

 

 

 
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
semi, do you have a copy of it?
---------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
He did not so much as admit to homosexuality but wrote of curiosity about it... Several called him on it and he didn't respond, leaving the impression that the understanding was correct... Some even associated it with his late night walks alone in the park... 
______
Yes, Vic, I have it. I'll PM it to you.
Dove, when speaking of homosexuality, Bill said he "leaned toward curiosity & a desire to experiment". When several of us called him on it, he chose to leave the discussion. He even said we all have that desire & I let him know immediately that I had never desired or wanted to experiment with another woman.
The ole fool may now try to back track & fix what he said but the damage has been done. The time to have spoken up was when several of us called him on his desire for other men. Anyone that said what Bill did as good as admitted to homosexuality.
 

 
 
 

 

 

 

Well, my little Chick-a-dee and her fine-feathered friend,

 

Since you cannot seem to stop snickering, giggling, and poking one another -- I have decided to help you.   There is no reason to hide in the corner, giggling and snickering, eager to PM one another "what Bill Gray said"!   I have done it for you.

 

All you have to do is to visit the new post titled "Let's Lay It On The Table For Discussion!" -- and I am sure that I will set your little girl minds to rest.  

 

Bless your childish little hearts!

 

Bill

Our-Gang_2

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Originally Posted by Dove of Peace:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Never have associated Bunkum to Bill Gray but that word completely describes the ole fool.
Were you not in class the day Billy came out about his homosexuality on this forum?
 semi, do you have a copy of it?
---------------------------------------------
He did not so much as admit to homosexuality but wrote of curiosity about it... Several called him on it and he didn't respond, leaving the impression that the understanding was correct... Some even associated it with his late night walks alone in the park... 
I think this is during a period when you were out if pocket, or at least notposting much...It's out there but you'd have to wade through the archives...
 
 

 _________________________

At some point you have to take the overwhelming evidence and call a spade a "spade".

 

In the end, who cares, but Johhny himself?

 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by Kate Colombo:

The word "pastor" is in the Bible, although some disagree on its meaning. Where is the term "senior pastor" or "head pastor?"

Hi Kate,

 

Nowhere in the Bible can I find a blonde pastor or a red haired pastor.  Does that mean that blonde or red haired men should not be pastors?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Friends_Piggy_Bear

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Hi Jan,

 

How is that more ridiculous than Kate implying that the churches in 33 to 100 AD did not have senior leaders/pastors -- because the title "senior pastor" is not found in the Bible.

 

That is why I suggest that neither does the Bible speak of blonde or red haired pastors -- yet, we do find them.  As you know, the ridiculous can only lead to the ridiculous.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Kate,

 

Nowhere in the Bible can I find a blonde pastor or a red haired pastor.  Does that mean that blonde or red haired men should not be pastors?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

__________________

"if it's not in the Bible, it's not true".  I wonder who said that here on these forums.  Any thoughts, Johhny?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jan,

 

How is that more ridiculous than Kate implying that the churches in 33 to 100 AD did not have senior leaders/pastors -- because the title "senior pastor" is not found in the Bible.

 

That is why I suggest that neither does the Bible speak of blonde or red haired pastors -- yet, we do find them.  As you know, the ridiculous can only lead to the ridiculous.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

______________________

 

Just in case you really are that slow I will tell you what the difference is. One is a title with powers bestowed on them. The others are descriptions of physical appearance. 

 

I know you know the difference, you were just trying once again to twist things around to make your point, and once again failing miserably. 

quote:  Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
quote: Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jan,   How is that more ridiculous than Kate implying that the churches in 33 to 100 AD did not have senior leaders/pastors -- because the title "senior pastor" is not found in the Bible.

 

That is why I suggest that neither does the Bible speak of blonde or red haired pastors -- yet, we do find them.  As you know, the ridiculous can only lead to the ridiculous.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,   Bill

Just in case you really are that slow I will tell you what the difference is.  One is a title with powers bestowed on them.  The others are descriptions of physical appearance. 

 

I know you know the difference, you were just trying once again to twist things around to make your point, and once again failing miserably.

Hi Jan,

 

What does it matter if one is a title and the other a physical description?  Using Kate's logic, since neither is in the Bible -- neither should be allowed for the position of pastor.

 

Of course, you, Kate, and I know that is ridiculous.  But, if we are going to trip down Ridiculous Lane, why should there be exclusions?  

 

If you want to talk apples and apples -- in the Bible, Peter was for a while head of the church in Jerusalem; then James was head of that church.  Timothy was left in charge of the church in Ephesus.  In those positions, they were the lead pastor, i.e., the senior pastor.

 

No, they are not called "senior pastor" in the Bible.  However, the position in which they functioned made them senior pastor, meaning that they held the leadership position in those churches.

 

The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible.  But, the concept is most certainly taught there -- as is the concept of "senior pastor."

 

I pray this clears up any confusion we may have encountered in our dialogue.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Friends_TiggerToo_Bear_Piggy_On-Limb-TEXT-1_Outline

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The end of the matter is this, Bill Gray.  The role of "pastor" in the Bible is identical with the role of elder, bishop, presbyter or overseer.  These terms are used interchangeably.  They always refer to a group of male leaders in the church of equal rank and authority.  There is no warrant in scripture for one of these leaders in a local church to have rank or authority over the others.  I strongly suggest that you obtain a copy of William Barclay's commentary on the "Letters to Timothy" and read pages 79 to 83.  It is a clear, erudite and scholarly presentation of the matter.

 

"Pastor" as a term for a preacher is incorrect unless that preacher meets the qualifications for "elder" or"bishop" in I Tim, 3: 1-7.

 

 

Hi Contendah,

 

So, what is your point?   I agree with you that pastor, elder, overseer, and presbyter are all synonymous -- and refer to the local church's spiritual leader or leaders.   And, as we see in the Bible with Peter and James, they, at different times were the primary pastor/elder/leader in the local church at Jerusalem.

 

As we see in 1 Timothy, Paul left Timothy as the spiritual leader, i.e., pastor, at Ephesus -- and in the two books, 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy, instruct him on being a strong spiritual leader as pastor/teacher with the goal of raising up other men to be elders and deacons in the local church.

 

What you call a "preacher" I would, at times, call an evangelist -- and other times call a pastor/teacher.  This is a person who is sharing the Word of God with knowledge and authority. 

 

In my mind, a pastor who is not a good teacher -- is not a good pastor.

 

So, my Friend, as much as I know you love to disagree with me -- where is our disagreement?  I do not see it.  

 

I totally disagree with you on your Liberal Legalistic Amillennial Theology; I totally disagree with you on your worship of Obama -- but, in this case, speaking of pastor/elders, where do we disagree?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 - Will Work For Jesus_Outline

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1 Corinthians 7:10-11 

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

Luke 16:18 

“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

God came down to see what they did and said: "They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withheld from them which they purpose to do." "Come, let us go down and confound their speech." And so God scattered them upon the face of the Earth, and confused their languages, so that they would not be able to return to each other, and they left off building the city, which was called Babel "because God there confounded the language of all the Earth".

quote:  Originally Posted by HomesickGirl:

Contendah...Beautiful initial post.  Good research.  You are correct about Chuck Smith.  Bill would do well to take heed.  Pray more and talk less, Bill.  Contendah is helping you.

Hi Girl,

 

And, you base your knowledge of Pastor Chuck Smith on what -- (1) what some disgruntled ex-Calvary Chapel person has written, or (2) on your own personal, first-hand knowledge of him and his actions?

 

I have never been a member of Calvary Chapel, but I am very familiar with Pastor Chuck Smith and his accomplishments at Calvary Chapel.   And, I have seen nothing but positive results.

 

Do I agree with Pastor Chuck Smith on all issues?  No.  Matter of fact, I do not recall any pastor with whom I agree 100% on all issues.  But, that does not make them bad pastors or teachers; and it does not necessarily make them wrong.  It only says that, at this stage of my spiritual growth, there are issues on which I disagree with them.  But, that will not stop me from listening to them, nor will it stop me from worshiping with them.

 

So, Girl, I will ask you again.  Where does your knowledge of Pastor Chuck Smith and the Calvary Chapel Movement come from -- a disgruntled detractor, or personal knowledge?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

1 Peter 3-15 - Walk In The Park

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  • 1 Peter 3-15 - Walk In The Park
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11 

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

Luke 16:18 

“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

______

Billy is OSAS, he can marry & divorce as many times as he wants. Problem is, it will have to be a Filipino or Mexican woman because they are raised from birth to "Obey" their man, & they have no voice of their own.

No American raised woman with a brain would look twice at the ole man.

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