As I said gambling for the most part can be harmless entertainment. Yeah from a mathematical standpoint its stupid to buy lottery tickets. But I feel even more stupid when I spend $20 or more to go to the movies and the movie blows. Not only have I wasted money but there's 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours of my life I won't get back.

LOL! Yes, and because it is so bad you see it being shown free on TV about a month after you've spent your money.

I agree with BFred. Also, yes, if you've ever bought a ticket for a church raffle, a civic group drawing, etc., then you have indulged in gambling. 

I don't think churches are any better equipped to decide where lottery monies should be spent than any other group of people. 

I'm a Methodist, and btw I will speak to anyone in the liquor store if I know them.

And canade, the next time you're in the liquor store ask the clerk working there who owns it, and if they're a christian or an atheist, and who benefits from the tax money they pay. 

No offense intended, but IMO no one here is likely to know "most Christians" or what they think about anything.  The believers I see on Sunday have nothing to do with what I believe or think...that's between me and God.  We have one major thing in common, Jesus Christ, but our individual thoughts are our own.  Although some are intent on believing a lie, we are not in fact ignorant or robots.

That verse from Proverbs on strong drink...far from the only verse in the Bible on the subject.  Jesus Christ himself turned water to wine (the best wine - "saved the best for last") to be served to wedding guests after they had already depleted what was on hand.  The Bible speaks against being habitually drunk, a common sense admonition to avoid alcoholism.  It does not forbid consumption of alcohol.

I think the same can be said of gambling, a common sense admonition to not be stupid with your money...lol...if you play, you pay.  Have at it, but don't come crying to God or your brothers/sisters when you lose the farm or develop an addiction, as you were warned to avoid it.

I agree that we have morons handling our tax dollars.  They can't properly distribute what they have now.  Until they do, I'm not interested in handing them more in any form.

I think the same can be said of gambling, a common sense admonition to not be stupid with your money...lol...if you play, you pay.  Have at it, but don't come crying to God or your brothers/sisters when you lose the farm or develop an addiction, as you were warned to avoid it

And don't come crying for more tax money when you refuse to generate it?? I'm sure the places that are "wet" are AOK with taking the money from people who live in the areas that are "dry", and the states with a lottery feel the same about taking money from people that vote against it in their state.

Dang.  My bad.  I did a search for "gambling" in the Bible.  It's not even in there.  Oh well.

Joy, you will find it under "casting lots."

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Joy, I posted this on the first page.

The Bible does not explicitly mention gambling, but it does mention events of “luck” or “chance.” Here’s some examples. Casting lots was used in Leviticus to choose between the sacrificial goat and the scapegoat. Joshua cast lots to determine the allotment of land to various tribes. Nehemiah cast lots to determine who would live inside the walls of Jerusalem. The apostles cast lots to determine the replacement for Judas.

Alabama taxes are lower than those of any other state.  The answer to increasing revenue is to increase some taxes, most appropriately property taxes.  The antiquated Alabama Constitution was purposefully drafted to protect fat cat big landowners from paying reasonable taxes and it has worked to produce that objective.  Thus, we go through the predictable horrors of pro-ration about every other year.  As long as owners of hundreds of thousands of acres of valuable forest land and farm land are ridiculously under-taxed, this problem will continue.  For example, forest land in Alabama is taxed at rates varying from half to one-fifth of the taxes imposed on similar land in our adjoining states.  That is an absurd and unnecessary concession to Big Timber.

The answer is NOT a lottery, which is predatory upon the poor.  The answer is CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM!!

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Apples and oranges.  There was nothing wagered in the Biblical 
"casting of lots." No one put his/her money at risk, as with the lottery.  Casting lots was simply a tool for deciding matters and most conservative theologians consider that God directed the outcome.

How is it "predatory" upon the poor? That is ridiculous. People of all levels of income play the lottery. Banning it in Alabama does NOTHING to stop people from buying lottery tickets. Good grief. I suppose the poor don't drink or smoke, but would buy lottery tickets. What twisted logic.

How is it "predatory" upon the poor? That is ridiculous. People of all levels of income play the lottery. Banning it in Alabama does NOTHING to stop people from buying lottery tickets. Good grief. I suppose the poor drink and smoke only because it's legal. What twisted logic.

No, Jennifer, in most cases the more intelligent the person, the more they realize a lottery is a bad investment of hard earned wages. Since the intelligent have better jobs, it follows that that they have more money than those of lesser intelligence who don't see the futility of buying lottery tickets. See the cartoon I posted.

That's not true in every case, but in most. I used to buy the B'ham News everyday, but it became more and more expensive. I had to weigh what I rec'd from the paper against what purchasing it for a week cost (8.00 at this time). Do the same with the lottery. What could you buy with the money wasted on lottery tickets or other games of chance?

As far as it being a tax, no one is making them purchase tickets, but we will ultimately have to support the families of those who are addicted. In this area, it is already here since Lauderdale is adjacent to Tennessee. These fine citizens take food from their children's mouths to purchase tickets which aren't worth the proverbial paper they're printed on.

Oh brother. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. So only stupid people buy raffle tickets that schools, charities and churches sell? Well we'll have to tell them that's what those places think of them. Everyone buys lottery tickets. I'm not talking about selling your home and buying lottery tickets. Anyone that is that addicted is gambling all the time anyway. Don't try to say there's not illegal gambling going on all over, not to mention traveling to other places to gamble legally. It's insane to keep the state from having a lottery when people can go a few miles and buy them in another state, or they can have friends send them lottery tickets. But then again, other states like your way of thinking.

That's not true in every case, but in most. I used to buy the B'ham News everyday, but it became more and more expensive. I had to weigh what I rec'd from the paper against what purchasing it for a week cost (8.00 at this time). Do the same with the lottery. What could you buy with the money wasted on lottery tickets or other games of chance?

What could I buy with the money spent on lottery tickets? Not much. I hardly ever buy them. Sometimes we "feel lucky" and we stop if we are in TN and buy them, but we never make a special trip for that. We have been there and said to each other, "do you feel lucky today" and one of us would say no, so we'd pass on buying them. I couldn't buy even a small bit of the junk people buy because they "collect" that certain item. I remember the beanie baby craze and knew people that spent thousands on those things. I was buying a barbie for my daughter and some crazy woman almost jerked it out of my hands because it was the last one and she just had to have it because she collected barbies and, oh my gawd, she had looked all over for that one. If she hadn't been so insane I might just have let her have the thing. I remember when people went ape**** over a tickle me elmo "shortage" and they were paying hundreds and hundreds for them. Addiction comes in all forms. Whether it's spending money on beanie babies, baseball cards, glassware, coins that will never be worth even what people paid for them, whatever, millions have addictions. People won't pay their rent so they can fly to vegas and gamble, they pawn whatever they can get their hands on and gamble. To even suggest that the state is full of ignorant people that would only play the lottery if it was legal here is laughable.

Best, pay thirty to fifty dollars for a Barbie and you have...a Barbie, which you can sell later for either twenty if it's not popular, or maybe one hundred dollars if it proves to be extremely popular. Pay thirty to fifty dollars for lottery tickets and what do you have?

Best, pay thirty to fifty dollars for a Barbie and you have...a Barbie, which you can sell later for either twenty if it's not popular, or maybe one hundred dollars if it proves to be extremely popular. Pay thirty to fifty dollars for lottery tickets and what do you have?

Pay hundreds for a child's toy and what do you have? Pay thousands for beanie babies and what do you have? Go to the movies and pay and what do you have? Pay hundreds to go to a ballgame and what do you have? Pay hundreds on sports crap and what do you have? Pay to eat out and what do you have? Drink a few beers and what do you have? Buy church or school or charity raffle tickets and what do you have?  Pay to go to a fair or carnival and what do you have? Pay hundreds for "fancy phones" and what do you have? Buy big screen TVs and what do you have? Pay for fake nails and their upkeep and what do you have? Pay to have your hair dyed, bleached, permed and what do you have? Spend a few grand on vacations and what do you have? The lottery is not YOUR idea of fun or thrills so you think no one else should like doing it. But you have things you spend money on that other people might think is just as foolish.

The things you mentioned fall into two categories: tangible and intangible.

The tangible (TVs, Cars, etc.) can be sold, usually at a loss, but sometimes at a profit. You receive at least some value for your money--quite a bit if you take care of the purchase.

The intangible (movies, football games, etc.) usually bring pleasure.

Are lottery tickets tangible or intangible? Well, you do have paper when you purchase them, but they can't be resold a month later and they look really odd framed and hanging in your den.

Intangible happiness? Are those who purchase them happy until the actual lottery? Are they happy after the lottery? We'll let you be the judge...

People don't sell their TVs and things unless it's to buy bigger, newer, better, and that means spending even more money on what some people could consider "frivilous" items or activities. And I'm not here to judge people. As I have said, different people enjoy doing different things and it's not my business to tell them they can spend hundreds on a ballgame or vacations or whatever, but they can't buy lottery tickets.

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I would think that Jenn would feel the same as I in that she wouldn't judge what people do with their money. None of our business, so why should we? How is it any of your business what people do with their money?

The tangent of this topic is not how people spend their money, but the intelligence of those who purchase lottery tickets. Most people want value for money. I do. Don't you?

Purchasing lottery tickets gives no value for money. While I don't drink and have seen some horrible results of alcohol...and nicotine, both products do give value for the money spent on it. Again, lottery tickets have neither tangible nor intangible value.

You were wondering what % of 60% of those were christens? About 59/1/5 of them are.

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I just recently spent a week with my husband on vacation, sometimes lying around doing nothing, but enjoying each other, sometimes going out on the town.  We spent a bunch of money, do we have anything to show for it, are we worried that we spent it? No! And we will be doing it again.

No one mentioned tangible nor intangible, but you. If I want to buy one lottery ticket or a hundred, that's no one's business but my own. Doesn't worry me at all.

Edited to add: Doing with my money what I wish to do with it makes me no less intelligent than you.

Best compared purchasing a big screen TV to purchasing lottery tickets. Whether she described them as tangible and intangible makes them no less so. Yes, we can judge either intelligence or mental health by how one spends or invests their resources. Here is an interesting study on the subject of lottery tickets: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/d...2.files/Gambling.pdf

There are many people with high IQs who are bipolar or have other mental defects who spend money inappropriately. Obviously one who spends the mortgage payment or food budget on lottery tickets has some mental defect.

I'll also add that if I had the extra two hundred dollars to spend, I not only could purchase something tangible that I could have the use of for years, I could help those who are truly unfortunate--something the atheists among us complain Christians do not do enough of; however, I would not presume to tell you how to spend your money.

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The subject of this thread was about the lottery, and yes, that means it is about the way people choose to spend their money. The only one that brought up the intelligence of people that buy lottery tickets was you. I called BS on that because intelligence has nothing to do with it.  What kind of "value" do alcohol and nicotine have?  I'm not talking about the "social drinker", I'm talking about the addicted people. I can argue that intelligent people aren't alcoholics and intelligent people don't smoke. I wouldn't say that because that is as silly as arguing that intelligent people don't buy lottery tickets. I certainly see NO value for the money in cigarettes or alcohol, and no offense, but I wouldn't expect an intelligent person to think they do have any value. So if I'm understanding you correctly, people can ruin their health with cigarettes and excessive use of alcohol, and endanger others around them while they do, yet somehow buying a lottery ticket is stupid? Maybe the problem lies with the ones they "survey" about the lottery. And lastly, as stated before, the states with the lottery are more than happy that all the "intelligent" folks in Alabama keep the lottery out.

Read his take on it.

blog at IBM developerWorks

Average cost of a pack of cigarettes:

Alabama: $5.27

http://www.theawl.com/2011/06/...costs-state-by-state

Now I do know that smokers can smoke one pack a day easily, and many many say they smoke 1&1/2 to 2 packs a day. That's not the cigar smokers or the ones using "smokeless" tobacco, the pipe smokers etc.  I guess smoking would make a person much more likely a "winner" than the lottery. That is if a person is looking to win all sorts of health issues and the big jackpot, lung cancer. OK semi, sorry to take your thread so far off course, back to the original theme of the thread, yes, we should have a lottery.

I agree with contendah on casting lots.  Apparently modern theologians agree with him.  I did a search of every translation; even modern translations do not translate it gambling or gamble.  However, we can surely all agree that gambling does not equal being a wise steward of what we've been given. 

How you spend your money IS your business.  However, my money will not be thrown away on what is IMO illogical reasoning.  I can having fun playing cards, board games, online games, without losing money.  My sweetheart and I can dream about easier times without losing money.  There is no reason for me to gamble my money away.  I have been to Vegas numerous times for trade shows and they have yet to get one dime of my money.  If you want to do that with your money, that's your business.

However, my money will not be thrown away on what is IMO illogical reasoning. 

But yet people do hundreds of other things that people could consider "illogical reasoning".  So for starters, when are we going to outlaw cigarettes and alcohol in this state?

I guess the same day we outlaw overeating and lack of exercise...lol.

Not related to your original question...simply an observation or two from years ago:

I was teaching in Florida when it established its state lottery. One of the Lottery Commissioner's aides was my neighbor. One thing I observed, and she also commented on, was the number of dirt poor individuals that spent their ENTIRE monthly incomes on lottery tickets. There's nothing like watching a scruffy, filthy guy, dragging his two shoeless, dirty kids into a convenience store and buying hundreds of dollars worth of lottery tickets.....

A problem that was quick to rear its ugly head was over the original intent of the lottery: to fund education. ALL lottery proceeds, once administrative duties and payouts were addressed, were to go to education. They did. BUT....monies NORMALLY earmarked for educational budgetary concerns were DIVERTED to 'pet projects'. Florida had to enact a law making such diversions illegal.

There's nothing like watching a scruffy, filthy guy, dragging his two shoeless, dirty kids into a convenience store and buying hundreds of dollars worth of lottery tickets.....

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Unless it's watching them buy cigarettes and beer. HUNDREDS of dollars worth of lottery tickets? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Best, are you for outlawing cigs and alcohol?  I thought you were just comparing them to gambling?

$1 a pop. He bought a whole roll.

NO idea how many tickets are on a $1 roll, answers vary from 50,150, up to 300 tickets per roll depending on type of ticket and the state where you buy them. I do know people have "gone in on" a roll but other than that I guess we'd have to call and ask, or google more.

I've only had one friend 'win' in buying lottery tickets. A couple of years ago he went into his neighborhood convenience store to buy cigarettes. A guy in front of him was buying lottery tickets. One of the tickets the clerk tore off, for some reason, wasn't one he wanted. My friend bought it. It was a $10 ticket, IIRC. He won $136,000.00 on that 'impulse' ticket buy.

Most owners of agricultural property are not "fat cats" and raising property taxes would destroy the family farms in the state. I have a family member who is 81 years old, owns over 2000 acres of forest land, lives in an old run down 5 room house (not five bedrooms, 5 rooms and that includes the one bathroom), his Sunday best is (and no I'm not kidding here) are a clean and pressed pair of Liberty Overalls. A lot of folks don't realize that he is pretty much typical of the big landowner in the state, true that most probably have a nicer house but they do have to be careful with their money and when they do turn a profit it's a very modest one. If you think the taxes are too low here then take a look at the green belt exception on agricultural property in Tennessee, the taxes are lower in Tennessee on qualifying land and they don't have an education crises. So looking at our neighbors to the north we can see that they have a decent & well funded education system and low property taxes on farm land.

If we raise property taxes on farm land then the cost of agricultural products goes up, since agricultural products such as food are a necessity then I would say that raising the taxes on such property would truly be predatory on the poor and middle class since they all have to buy food and lottery tickets are optional.

2000 acres is not a "big landowner" situation and your relative is not a major player in the forestry/pulp and paper industry. Broaden your horizons and you will find that the property tax situation in this state is as I described.

Only a relatively small fraction of forest and agricultural lands in Tennessee are eligible for the greenbelt tax break, namely those lands sufficiently close to cities or major highway frontage to be worth more for other development than their value as farm or forest land. Under the Greenbelt Program, those eligible lands are taxed based on actual USE, rather than potential highest value use.  The vast tracts of tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of acres owned by Big Timber and mega-agribusiness typically either do not qualify or qualify only for some small fraction of the total holdings.

AND--there are real problems with the Tennessee Greenbelt Program.

http://www.murfreesboropost.co...-huge-mess-cms-18957