Nope, I work!  I am the only person on my crew with the skill to perform the job that I do.  I am much older than most of the crew and have offered to show some of the younger workers how to do the work. All  they want is pay without the work. Again, if you want top pay, do top work.

Per US Department of Labor statistics, only 4.7 percent of workers are paid minimum wage.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130325.htm

 

Minimum wage is a starter wage for non-skilled workers, including teenagers.  Ridiculous to insist upon a living wage for someone who has no skills and lives with his parents.  Fast food places operate on a narrow profit margin and prices are very competitive.  Double wages and there will be no jobs.  And, in NYC, only the small food shops and delis operated by owners and their families. Plus, Starbucks, of course, and their over priced products.  All costing more than the old fast food places.   

Raising min wage to 15 bucks will only increase the percentage of those living below the poverty line.  The only way this would work is if everyone got the same raise. 

 

Joe the plumber makes a decent living at $25/hour.  Minimum wage is raised to $15/hour and all employers affected by this increase raise their prices to pay the new min wage.  Joe still makes $25/hour but his money is now effectively worth $15/hour.  Joe realizes he was an idiot for voting demoncrat.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Mad I know all about skilled  labor I’ve probably worked your azz if you are union, as project manager on multi-million dollar power plants, paper mills , aluminum and steel to name a few all over the south. I know all about it bud.


Well, just spewed coffee all over my monitor!

animated gifs of laughing paople- man rolling on the floor laughing

"Project manager"...huh?

 

 

 

Yep rolly over the years as supervisor and project manager in industrial construction I was partly responsible for you having electricity in your trailer, the cars your buddies drove, the food you eat and paper you wiped your *** with and the brown paper sack you puke in and bring your likker home in. I never did build a distillery though.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Yep rolly over the years as supervisor and project manager in industrial construction I was partly responsible for you having electricity in your trailer, the cars your buddies drove, the food you eat and paper you wiped your *** with and the brown paper sack you puke in and bring your likker home in. I never did build a distillery though.

I've worked in industry all my life.  Most of the union people I've worked with vote Republican.  Of course I've seen a few turds like **** doggy dog in my career.  No one ever takes them seriously.

Skilled trades are a must and that comes from training whether from a union or trade school. I believe in a top wage negotiated by collective bargaining [journeyman wage in skilled trades]. A beginning employee starts out at a percentage of that wage and receives a percentage increase after a set time and has demonstrated an increase in skills judged by an appointed journeyman in the workplace. If in the opinion of that journeyman the person has not advanced in skills, no raise is earned and continues at that wage until the person has proven otherwise. The top wage is then renegotiated each year. The more skilled and productive a pool of employees are in any industry has to be the business of that collective body union or otherwise. In the perfect world when a business needs an employee from that represented pool the employee shows up educated, skilled along with the necessary tools to do the job and guaranteed a fair living wage from the employer for it.

     Theft of employees by competition is stopped in its tracks and bidding for production costs is not determined by how cheaply you can pay workers. That cost is level across the industry. Once a person takes a job he stays there and does not shop employers, if he quits he goes to the back of the line and waits to be sent out for another job.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Skilled trades are a must and that comes from training whether from a union or trade school. I believe in a top wage negotiated by collective bargaining [journeyman wage in skilled trades]. A beginning employee starts out at a percentage of that wage and receives a percentage increase after a set time and has demonstrated an increase in skills judged by an appointed journeyman in the workplace. If in the opinion of that journeyman the person has not advanced in skills, no raise is earned and continues at that wage until the person has proven otherwise. The top wage is then renegotiated each year. The more skilled and productive a pool of employees are in any industry has to be the business of that collective body union or otherwise. In the perfect world when a business needs an employee from that represented pool the employee shows up educated, skilled along with the necessary tools to do the job and guaranteed a fair living wage from the employer for it.

     Theft of employees by competition is stopped in its tracks and bidding for production costs is not determined by how cheaply you can pay workers. That cost is level across the industry. Once a person takes a job he stays there and does not shop employers, if he quits he goes to the back of the line and waits to be sent out for another job.

I am sure you run your household by trying to pay the lowest rate possible for any good or service. If you are having a bathroom remodeled at your house would you pay a contractor $20k when there is someone equally qualified that would do the job for $18k? Also, would you pay $4 for a gallon of milk if a grocery store next door is selling it for $3? You wouldn't. Yet, you expect a business owner to do that very thing when it comes to labor. When you eliminate competition in the marketplace you reward complacency. 

Let me guess QD, IF the minimum wage is increased exactly what will that affect union wages? Go up as well?

You and I both know that people compare prices when shopping, you have to admit you do this.  If a store can sell the same item for less you are mor elikely to shop there. I don't see how anyone can support a family on minimum wage, but then again why should they even try.  The minimum wage jobs are typically for those who are entering the workforce and young people between school sessions.  The outcry up North by the fast food workers is ridiculous.  They live in a city that is already overpriced and it can cost $12 to get a "value meal" at most of the burger chains in Times Square.  What do they think an increase in salary by such a substanial amount is going to do to those prices?  like someone said here already, it is asking to be replaced by a robot with a highly paid supervisor.

 

t it wont effect union wages. They are negotiated yearly and have nothing to do with min wage. T you don’t seem to understand.  In a fixed wage situation the price of goods and services is not based on how cheaply you can find workers but innovations in production and management.  Employee theft can ruin a company and the company spends more time trying to negotiate with insurance companies and employee benefits. Let the unions offer health insurance and benefits. It’s crazy to expect manufacturers to do anything other than manufacture.

  Robots make jobs. High paying ones at that. The robot has to be designed, built and maintained. The robot’s programming has to be designed, modeled and engineered for the end use. Programmers and engineering are both high paid jobs. Robots increase production and work at tolerances a human is not capable of.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

__________________

i gave you the "canned republican answer"... make sure you vote against your best interest, come next election.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

__________________

i gave you the "canned republican answer"... make sure you vote against your best interest, come next election.

____________________________________

A Masters degree in what?  If in English, or Library Science, expect low expectations.  If in Engineering or an MBA, perhaps more.  As internal passports are not required in the US, one may use the most powerful of weapons for high salary -- pedal to the metal -- move.  If, one of the 50 don't suit you, one can look abroad. 

 

Voting to extract money from Peter to Paul backed by the force of government works for a time. In time, Peter leaves, quits earning more, or comes after you! 

QD,

A robot may take a specilist to build and program, but it can take five or more jobs out of the hands of people that need to enter the workforce.  And you and I both know that union wages may be negotiated, but the wages being earned by others will be used in the negotiations.  Food prices will rise, as will the cost of delivering goods, stocking goods, and selling those goods.  I worked minimum wage jobs while I was in college.  I worked construction, landscaping, and finally a job as a night clerk at a convenience store.  If anything it convinced me to stay in school, work my way up the ladder and try to achieve something greater.  Hate to think where I would have been if I had become complacent in those jobs or entitled to more than my worth.

T I have had close association with robotics in the past few years being involved in repair of circuit boards that operate them. I know first hand what is required to build, maintain and cause them to perform jobs. The mid level jobs they replace forces an up -shift of employees whose job the robot now does to higher paid slots.  For every robot there is a team on the other end of the wire in engineering telling the robot what to do and modeling the next job it will do. Every move the robot makes is recorded and is archived as history data that data is in place for troubleshooting, refinement of tasks and last but not least it is there for a mountain of ISO compliance.  Production and quality are vastly increased by robots. It can be argued that they make more jobs than is lost. It might surprise you to find that many of the mid-level employees that are forced to move up are programmers and engineers with minimum computer training from a Tech school.

   I think my argument for unions or whatever can have training on any level in place before the manufacturer has to waste valuable time having to train workers who may prove incapable.

You are talking about making circuit boards and installing the components on them, I also know a little bit about that type of manufacturing.  What I am talking about however is flipping burgers.  It does not take a high school diploma nor a college degree to flip burgers or assemble a sandwich, drops some chicken in the fryer or slop some tartar sauce on a fish sandwich.  These are two different types of assemblage.  One requires a certain skill set, the other just requires someone with a pulse and clean hands.

Yes, he or she does, BUT no one will attest to the fact that it requires much skill or education to flip a burger or drop some fries in the fryer.  Certainly these jobs are a necessity, but to advocate paying a $15/hr wage for something like this is ridiculous. Like I said previously there is no incentive to move up the chain if you start a rung from the top.

If you can replace these people, much like Walmart has replaced checkers with self checkout units, then eventually you will remove all of these unskilled labor jobs.

t you are forgetting the graduated pay scale. also unions have job descriptions which pay differently. For instance the operating engineers have different pay scales such as air compressor operator, crane operator. oiler, mechanic foreman etc. the same structure could be in the food service industry. chief cook, bottle washer, cashier. same with the business you are in. Medicine. running the circumcising machine for instance has potential for advancement, forty skins a week and a chance to get a head. on the other hand I have no sympathy for doctors who let huge medical conglomerates screw them out of the AMA. 15 bucks is doable for the food industry. 

Tell me more about this circumcision machine, sounds like a good investment, but the Jewish mohel Union may get snuffed out of existence....haha

Seriously, you believe that $15 an hour for employees plus benefits, for unskilled labor in a fast food restaurant is a doable business, and one that would allow no significant increase in the costs of those products? you are being serious and not pulling my leg?

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