Nope, I work!  I am the only person on my crew with the skill to perform the job that I do.  I am much older than most of the crew and have offered to show some of the younger workers how to do the work. All  they want is pay without the work. Again, if you want top pay, do top work.

Mad I know all about skilled  labor I’ve probably worked your azz if you are union, as project manager on multi-million dollar power plants, paper mills , aluminum and steel to name a few all over the south. I know all about it bud.

Per US Department of Labor statistics, only 4.7 percent of workers are paid minimum wage.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130325.htm

 

Minimum wage is a starter wage for non-skilled workers, including teenagers.  Ridiculous to insist upon a living wage for someone who has no skills and lives with his parents.  Fast food places operate on a narrow profit margin and prices are very competitive.  Double wages and there will be no jobs.  And, in NYC, only the small food shops and delis operated by owners and their families. Plus, Starbucks, of course, and their over priced products.  All costing more than the old fast food places.   

Raising min wage to 15 bucks will only increase the percentage of those living below the poverty line.  The only way this would work is if everyone got the same raise. 

 

Joe the plumber makes a decent living at $25/hour.  Minimum wage is raised to $15/hour and all employers affected by this increase raise their prices to pay the new min wage.  Joe still makes $25/hour but his money is now effectively worth $15/hour.  Joe realizes he was an idiot for voting demoncrat.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Mad I know all about skilled  labor I’ve probably worked your azz if you are union, as project manager on multi-million dollar power plants, paper mills , aluminum and steel to name a few all over the south. I know all about it bud.


Well, just spewed coffee all over my monitor!

animated gifs of laughing paople- man rolling on the floor laughing

"Project manager"...huh?

 

 

 

Qd is in that union where if you get caught drinking and doing drugs on the job they’ll fight for you to keep your job.  

Yep rolly over the years as supervisor and project manager in industrial construction I was partly responsible for you having electricity in your trailer, the cars your buddies drove, the food you eat and paper you wiped your *** with and the brown paper sack you puke in and bring your likker home in. I never did build a distillery though.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Yep rolly over the years as supervisor and project manager in industrial construction I was partly responsible for you having electricity in your trailer, the cars your buddies drove, the food you eat and paper you wiped your *** with and the brown paper sack you puke in and bring your likker home in. I never did build a distillery though.

I've worked in industry all my life.  Most of the union people I've worked with vote Republican.  Of course I've seen a few turds like **** doggy dog in my career.  No one ever takes them seriously.

Skilled trades are a must and that comes from training whether from a union or trade school. I believe in a top wage negotiated by collective bargaining [journeyman wage in skilled trades]. A beginning employee starts out at a percentage of that wage and receives a percentage increase after a set time and has demonstrated an increase in skills judged by an appointed journeyman in the workplace. If in the opinion of that journeyman the person has not advanced in skills, no raise is earned and continues at that wage until the person has proven otherwise. The top wage is then renegotiated each year. The more skilled and productive a pool of employees are in any industry has to be the business of that collective body union or otherwise. In the perfect world when a business needs an employee from that represented pool the employee shows up educated, skilled along with the necessary tools to do the job and guaranteed a fair living wage from the employer for it.

     Theft of employees by competition is stopped in its tracks and bidding for production costs is not determined by how cheaply you can pay workers. That cost is level across the industry. Once a person takes a job he stays there and does not shop employers, if he quits he goes to the back of the line and waits to be sent out for another job.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

Skilled trades are a must and that comes from training whether from a union or trade school. I believe in a top wage negotiated by collective bargaining [journeyman wage in skilled trades]. A beginning employee starts out at a percentage of that wage and receives a percentage increase after a set time and has demonstrated an increase in skills judged by an appointed journeyman in the workplace. If in the opinion of that journeyman the person has not advanced in skills, no raise is earned and continues at that wage until the person has proven otherwise. The top wage is then renegotiated each year. The more skilled and productive a pool of employees are in any industry has to be the business of that collective body union or otherwise. In the perfect world when a business needs an employee from that represented pool the employee shows up educated, skilled along with the necessary tools to do the job and guaranteed a fair living wage from the employer for it.

     Theft of employees by competition is stopped in its tracks and bidding for production costs is not determined by how cheaply you can pay workers. That cost is level across the industry. Once a person takes a job he stays there and does not shop employers, if he quits he goes to the back of the line and waits to be sent out for another job.

I am sure you run your household by trying to pay the lowest rate possible for any good or service. If you are having a bathroom remodeled at your house would you pay a contractor $20k when there is someone equally qualified that would do the job for $18k? Also, would you pay $4 for a gallon of milk if a grocery store next door is selling it for $3? You wouldn't. Yet, you expect a business owner to do that very thing when it comes to labor. When you eliminate competition in the marketplace you reward complacency. 

Don’t be jealous of union wages now kenny.

I don’t take bids from non-union contractors.

 

I had you on my mental list of those who wouldn't understand the post.

Let me guess QD, IF the minimum wage is increased exactly what will that affect union wages? Go up as well?

You and I both know that people compare prices when shopping, you have to admit you do this.  If a store can sell the same item for less you are mor elikely to shop there. I don't see how anyone can support a family on minimum wage, but then again why should they even try.  The minimum wage jobs are typically for those who are entering the workforce and young people between school sessions.  The outcry up North by the fast food workers is ridiculous.  They live in a city that is already overpriced and it can cost $12 to get a "value meal" at most of the burger chains in Times Square.  What do they think an increase in salary by such a substanial amount is going to do to those prices?  like someone said here already, it is asking to be replaced by a robot with a highly paid supervisor.

 

Those fast food places must compete with many small family places that can keep costs down by hiring family members.  Asians are experts at this.  Italians used to be.  Russians are learning. 

because that's what their "skill set" is worth , in our market. you wouldn't pay $3 for eggs if you could buy them for $2 across the street.

t it wont effect union wages. They are negotiated yearly and have nothing to do with min wage. T you don’t seem to understand.  In a fixed wage situation the price of goods and services is not based on how cheaply you can find workers but innovations in production and management.  Employee theft can ruin a company and the company spends more time trying to negotiate with insurance companies and employee benefits. Let the unions offer health insurance and benefits. It’s crazy to expect manufacturers to do anything other than manufacture.

  Robots make jobs. High paying ones at that. The robot has to be designed, built and maintained. The robot’s programming has to be designed, modeled and engineered for the end use. Programmers and engineering are both high paid jobs. Robots increase production and work at tolerances a human is not capable of.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Quaildog:

as project manager on multi-million dollar power plants

_______

Seriously? I probably know you.

unless you worked in one of my field offices or washed my plane I don't know. maybe so.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

__________________

i gave you the "canned republican answer"... make sure you vote against your best interest, come next election.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

__________________

i gave you the "canned republican answer"... make sure you vote against your best interest, come next election.

____________________________________

A Masters degree in what?  If in English, or Library Science, expect low expectations.  If in Engineering or an MBA, perhaps more.  As internal passports are not required in the US, one may use the most powerful of weapons for high salary -- pedal to the metal -- move.  If, one of the 50 don't suit you, one can look abroad. 

 

Voting to extract money from Peter to Paul backed by the force of government works for a time. In time, Peter leaves, quits earning more, or comes after you! 

QD,

A robot may take a specilist to build and program, but it can take five or more jobs out of the hands of people that need to enter the workforce.  And you and I both know that union wages may be negotiated, but the wages being earned by others will be used in the negotiations.  Food prices will rise, as will the cost of delivering goods, stocking goods, and selling those goods.  I worked minimum wage jobs while I was in college.  I worked construction, landscaping, and finally a job as a night clerk at a convenience store.  If anything it convinced me to stay in school, work my way up the ladder and try to achieve something greater.  Hate to think where I would have been if I had become complacent in those jobs or entitled to more than my worth.

T I have had close association with robotics in the past few years being involved in repair of circuit boards that operate them. I know first hand what is required to build, maintain and cause them to perform jobs. The mid level jobs they replace forces an up -shift of employees whose job the robot now does to higher paid slots.  For every robot there is a team on the other end of the wire in engineering telling the robot what to do and modeling the next job it will do. Every move the robot makes is recorded and is archived as history data that data is in place for troubleshooting, refinement of tasks and last but not least it is there for a mountain of ISO compliance.  Production and quality are vastly increased by robots. It can be argued that they make more jobs than is lost. It might surprise you to find that many of the mid-level employees that are forced to move up are programmers and engineers with minimum computer training from a Tech school.

   I think my argument for unions or whatever can have training on any level in place before the manufacturer has to waste valuable time having to train workers who may prove incapable.

You are talking about making circuit boards and installing the components on them, I also know a little bit about that type of manufacturing.  What I am talking about however is flipping burgers.  It does not take a high school diploma nor a college degree to flip burgers or assemble a sandwich, drops some chicken in the fryer or slop some tartar sauce on a fish sandwich.  These are two different types of assemblage.  One requires a certain skill set, the other just requires someone with a pulse and clean hands.

Well I have no experience with robots that build circuit boards. I’m only familiar with robotics that perform jobs in heavy applications. Same principle though.

 

A person flipping burgers has to live.

Yes, he or she does, BUT no one will attest to the fact that it requires much skill or education to flip a burger or drop some fries in the fryer.  Certainly these jobs are a necessity, but to advocate paying a $15/hr wage for something like this is ridiculous. Like I said previously there is no incentive to move up the chain if you start a rung from the top.

If you can replace these people, much like Walmart has replaced checkers with self checkout units, then eventually you will remove all of these unskilled labor jobs.

t you are forgetting the graduated pay scale. also unions have job descriptions which pay differently. For instance the operating engineers have different pay scales such as air compressor operator, crane operator. oiler, mechanic foreman etc. the same structure could be in the food service industry. chief cook, bottle washer, cashier. same with the business you are in. Medicine. running the circumcising machine for instance has potential for advancement, forty skins a week and a chance to get a head. on the other hand I have no sympathy for doctors who let huge medical conglomerates screw them out of the AMA. 15 bucks is doable for the food industry. 

Tell me more about this circumcision machine, sounds like a good investment, but the Jewish mohel Union may get snuffed out of existence....haha

Seriously, you believe that $15 an hour for employees plus benefits, for unskilled labor in a fast food restaurant is a doable business, and one that would allow no significant increase in the costs of those products? you are being serious and not pulling my leg?

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

unless you worked in one of my field offices or washed my plane I don't know. maybe so.

_______

YOUR field offices? YOUR plane?

Fast food restaurants are an evil we need to phase out. Nothing uncommon for a waitress in a decent one to make 3-4 C’s/nite

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Quaildog:

unless you worked in one of my field offices or washed my plane I don't know. maybe so.

_______

YOUR field offices? YOUR plane?

which one?

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Quaildog:

unless you worked in one of my field offices or washed my plane I don't know. maybe so.

_______

YOUR field offices? YOUR plane?

Semi,

I suspect QDs biggest problem with his plane was keeping the rubber band powering the propeller tightly wound.  Unlike himself!

Originally Posted by teyates:

Tell me more about this circumcision machine, sounds like a good investment, but the Jewish mohel Union may get snuffed out of existence....haha

Seriously, you believe that $15 an hour for employees plus benefits, for unskilled labor in a fast food restaurant is a doable business, and one that would allow no significant increase in the costs of those products? you are being serious and not pulling my leg?

----------------

Just don't hire old "Shakes" Cohen for the next bris. 

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

because that's what their "skill set" is worth....

Seriously?  A Masters is only worth THAT?  What a crock of $ # ! T....

__________________

i gave you the "canned republican answer"... make sure you vote against your best interest, come next election.

So are you saying that basic Economics that is taught in colleges all across the country is a "canned republican answer"? LOL

 

I'm guessing that none of your "4" college degrees came from the College of Business. Am I right?

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Some jobs aren't meant to support a adult or a family.  For example yours.  i imagine it does keeps you well supplied with cheap Mexican dirt weed. 

 

Originally Posted by Chuck Farley:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Some jobs aren't meant to support a adult or a family.  For example yours.  i imagine it does keeps you well supplied with cheap Mexican dirt weed. 

 ___________________________________

poor chuckles... all he can do is try to insult me. what a pitiful existence you must live. to "attack" someone on the internet. you must really be a badass.

now, welcome to the "ignore" feature. you earned it. idiot.

If that place you worked at were required to pay a living wage then the first thing that would happen would be you and about half the staff would be let go. 

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Crash, labor is no different than any other good or service. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If there are people lined up willing to do the job for $8 an hour then the job isn't worth $10 an hour. It is the most basic of economic principles. Why do you think wages for people in the engineering and healthcare fields are increasing? It is because there is increasing demand for the "skill set" that these people possess. However, if you want to continue to contend that basic economics is "bs" then by all means please do.

 

Wages will go up as unemployment drops. Back in 05-06 when unemployment was below 5% I remember clearly that the fast food joints in Florence were offering $9 an hour. That is because the pool of labor was much smaller at that time. 

 

As a consumer, you would never pay more than something is worth. However, you and people like you expect a business owner to do that very thing. It is lunacy.

 

As for your question about "paying someone a decent wage for a decent day's work", that is highly subjective. Who determines what this "decent" wage is? If gov't forces employers to pay more in wages then the market will simply adjust accordingly to maintain profitability.

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Crash, labor is no different than any other good or service. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If there are people lined up willing to do the job for $8 an hour then the job isn't worth $10 an hour. It is the most basic of economic principles. Why do you think wages for people in the engineering and healthcare fields are increasing? It is because there is increasing demand for the "skill set" that these people possess. However, if you want to continue to contend that basic economics is "bs" then by all means please do.

 

Wages will go up as unemployment drops. Back in 05-06 when unemployment was below 5% I remember clearly that the fast food joints in Florence were offering $9 an hour. That is because the pool of labor was much smaller at that time. 

 

As a consumer, you would never pay more than something is worth. However, you and people like you expect a business owner to do that very thing. It is lunacy.

 

As for your question about "paying someone a decent wage for a decent day's work", that is highly subjective. Who determines what this "decent" wage is? If gov't forces employers to pay more in wages then the market will simply adjust accordingly to maintain profitability.

___________

 

do you want people off the "government dole" or is that just a conservative talking point?

do you think it's "ok" for we , as taxpayers, to pay for about 1/3 of walmart's work force?

what do you do for a living wage Farley? I'll bet you are afraid to say. we will get dire to perform some of his pierre cardin forensics on you to determine what you contribute to society. Being the repub there are not many slots of good intention known to exist that one would dare hazard for a curricula  vitae.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:
Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

you're never gonna "get it"... the republican "logic" has a hold on you!

you can "second guess" my education all you wish..

you can preach all the "skill set" BS you wanna spout.

what's wrong with paying a person a decent wage for a decent day's work?

i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question, without using the word "skill set"! ha!

Crash, labor is no different than any other good or service. It is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If there are people lined up willing to do the job for $8 an hour then the job isn't worth $10 an hour. It is the most basic of economic principles. Why do you think wages for people in the engineering and healthcare fields are increasing? It is because there is increasing demand for the "skill set" that these people possess. However, if you want to continue to contend that basic economics is "bs" then by all means please do.

 

Wages will go up as unemployment drops. Back in 05-06 when unemployment was below 5% I remember clearly that the fast food joints in Florence were offering $9 an hour. That is because the pool of labor was much smaller at that time. 

 

As a consumer, you would never pay more than something is worth. However, you and people like you expect a business owner to do that very thing. It is lunacy.

 

As for your question about "paying someone a decent wage for a decent day's work", that is highly subjective. Who determines what this "decent" wage is? If gov't forces employers to pay more in wages then the market will simply adjust accordingly to maintain profitability.

___________

 

do you want people off the "government dole" or is that just a conservative talking point?

do you think it's "ok" for we , as taxpayers, to pay for about 1/3 of walmart's work force?

Forcing employers to pay more will accomplish nothing. 

 

Let's take a small business owner with 10 employees who he is paying $8 an hour. Now let's say the gov't comes in and tells the business owner he has to pay $10 an hour now. That means that the business owner's costs will increase by $3,200 a month resulting in an annual pay cut of $38,400($3200 x 12) for the business owner. 

 

Do you think the owner of the business is going to take a $38,400 cut in their take home pay or will they cut back on employee hours? The business owner could also decide that operating the business is no longer worth the time, headache, and cost so they may close. 

 

The best course of action is for gov't to create an environment that encourages investment, risk taking, and entrepreneurship because as more people go to work and unemployment drops then wages will naturally go up.

Originally Posted by Chuck Farley:

And if it weren't for Wal-Mart we would be paying 100% of what accounts for their work force.  

Farley if the frog had wings he wouldn't bump his azz when he hops. that response of yours is typical pub logic. flawed

"The best course of action is for gov't to create an environment that encourages investment, risk taking, and entrepreneurship because as more people go to work and unemployment drops then wages will naturally go up".[powers logic]

     Why take chances when there is plenty of free data out there to eliminate chance. Gambling that you can run a business not paying the unskilled workers with which you intend to build your business is called suicide not risk. LOL What do you do for a living wage. We'll get you an appointment with dire along with Farley. LOL

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

"The best course of action is for gov't to create an environment that encourages investment, risk taking, and entrepreneurship because as more people go to work and unemployment drops then wages will naturally go up".[powers logic]

     Why take chances when there is plenty of free data out there to eliminate chance. Gambling that you can run a business not paying the unskilled workers with which you intend to build your business is called suicide not risk. LOL What do you do for a living wage. We'll get you an appointment with dire along with Farley. LOL

Are you trying to say that wages don't increase as unemployment drops?

 

Your entire statement is mess of sentence fragments and ramblings. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

CO sez"i have yet to find one conservative who could answer that question..."

 

Sort of like asking a liberal democrat to describe what "fair tax" is.  None of them can tell you an answer.  They only know it is more than what they are paying.

Objectivity is often clouded by looking at things from only one perspective.

t, i agree... you , and the other conservatives, should try to see it from another point of view.

it's not ok to be on the government dole, but it is ok if you're walmart, or any large corporation, to keep people on the government payroll.  it's not ok, to be on government assistance. it is ok for a corporation to pay so little , you require government assistance. conservative logic 101.

yep, basic conservative principles, it's ok for the corporation to be on the government handout, just not the people.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

t, i agree... you , and the other conservatives, should try to see it from another point of view.

it's not ok to be on the government dole, but it is ok if you're walmart, or any large corporation, to keep people on the government payroll.  it's not ok, to be on government assistance. it is ok for a corporation to pay so little , you require government assistance. conservative logic 101.

yep, basic conservative principles, it's ok for the corporation to be on the government handout, just not the people.

So should gov't force large companies to pay more for labor and not small companies? 

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

t, i agree... you , and the other conservatives, should try to see it from another point of view.

it's not ok to be on the government dole, but it is ok if you're walmart, or any large corporation, to keep people on the government payroll.  it's not ok, to be on government assistance. it is ok for a corporation to pay so little , you require government assistance. conservative logic 101.

yep, basic conservative principles, it's ok for the corporation to be on the government handout, just not the people.

So should gov't force large companies to pay more for labor and not small companies? 

_____________

why would they?

 

Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:
Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

t, i agree... you , and the other conservatives, should try to see it from another point of view.

it's not ok to be on the government dole, but it is ok if you're walmart, or any large corporation, to keep people on the government payroll.  it's not ok, to be on government assistance. it is ok for a corporation to pay so little , you require government assistance. conservative logic 101.

yep, basic conservative principles, it's ok for the corporation to be on the government handout, just not the people.

So should gov't force large companies to pay more for labor and not small companies? 

You know, WalMart, Home Depot, Lowe's, CostCo and the entire low priced and low wage paying big box Chinese distribution houses would not exist if not for the greed and ignorant public that elects the politicians who use the process with impunity.

It is a vicious cycle.  You want these high paying wages for working in a place that only survives by providing low prices.  The same places that most of the people who get a government check frequent.  Without those discount warehouse full of Chinese imports, the person who is living on a fixed income would not be able to provide for themselves and their family.  in order for these places to provide the type of wages you want to see, the prices will have to increase, therefore putting a bigger burden on those in the lower income bracket, which will put a greater demand on the government to supplement their entitlements.

It is a vicous circle that is not so simple to fix.  Simply "paying" these people more money wil not rememdy the situation, since the rpices go up, and their buying power will decrease.

I too would like to see corporations such as Walmart who have a huge number of people who get governmental insurance have to help supplemnt that in some form, but again I do not have a clear cut answer and neither do any of the rest of these arm chair economists on here, yourself included.

But again, like I said, asking you to define "fair tax"  is as a legitimate task as asking someone to define "living wage". 

t if the government paid you more per head you could buy larger ships. Those ships require labor. Higher wages then become the cause for  a stronger  economy. it's the greed factor that just burns you ass up when someone else makes a buck. Typical repub thinking.

It is not "burning my ass" up for someone to make a dollar, that is the mirror you are looking at QD. As to your premise of the buying a bigger ship and hiring more people to sail it, are you not advocating government supplementation of the business? such as tax breaks and incentives?  because to me that is exactly what you are saying.  They do something similar in China. If a company is producing a product for sale here in the US and they need to do it cheaply, the government will supplement that's company's coffers to help pay employees so that the company can make it cheaper.

I personally think that you are conflicted and are cofused about what you want.  you think the ship needs to be bigger, but you want everyone on it to be captains or first mates and it does not work that way.  if EVERYONE on the ship invested their own money in buying it, equal parts, then they would all be entitled to help steer it, but that is not what happens.

Like I said, you are the one displaying jealousy about someone making a dollar, not me.  My ass is fine.

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