Majority strongly against abortion

I personally struggle internally with this issue.  I defend even an unborn child's rights, yet also a woman's rights and I particularly despise too much Government control.  The Government can charge a person say with "double murder" if one was to DUI/kill a pregnant woman in a car accident.  If one was merely negligent, ran a stop sign, probably won't get murder charges, maybe involuntary manslaughter at the most, maybe nothing at all.

The woman can have an abortion, not considered murder legally.  An abusive mate could force their woman to have an abortion or trick their mate into an abortion. Murder. Most, but not all, would probably agree.  A Father might force his teenage daughter to have an abortion.  Murder.

A woman could refuse to take care of herself while pregnant, do drugs, drink excessively, skip a medical procedure, fail to take medicine, etc. could easily be charged with Murder.

However, if a woman chooses to terminate the pregnancy at any allowable legal stage of pregnancy, not Murder, it is her right according to the law.  So in essence, the law relenquishes the right to file Murder charges (not exactly I know) to be up to the woman and no one else.

I ask this, if the pregnant woman is NOT killed by the DUI driver but her unborn child is, but the woman says "That's OK, I was on my way to the abortion clinic anyway", now what?  Does the Government now step in and say you have no choice, we are charging Dude with murder?  Really, "I was on my way to have it murdered anyway, so no harm done, just pay for my car".

A woman gets to call the shots because it is her body, irreguardless of the body inside her as it has no rights, legally, unless the Government of course decides to overrule.

If the same Pregnant woman killed her dog's puppies, most Pro-Choicer's would probably want her thrown under the jail and have her baby taken away.  Would you then step in to protect the child?

Even if you believe the child is just tissue to begin with, at some point it begins to have a beating heart just like the puppies, whether in the womb or out.  It is hard to call it Murder if one kills it but OK if another kills it.  Murder is murder, period.

There are justifications for Murder in certain cases, justifiable homicide for one.  I do believe abortions due to rape, incest, medical conditions, and health of the un-born child ARE Justifiable homicide.  I don't believe laziness, drug use, etc. warrant justifiable homicide, they are murder.

So according to some I am pro-life, and others I am pro-choice.  Abortion is way too convenient when a woman can abort just to get back at an ex-lover.  She could simply choose life or death for an unborn child based upon her conflict that day with her boyfriend.  It should never be that simple.

Sooth.. Jenn speaks sooth.

i used to know a girl, 20+ years ago who had one.

yes, i tried to talk her out of it. no, it didn't work.

her reasoning was "i'm tired of feeling tired and sick al lthe time"

and yes, her doctor orderd a D&C for something.. i forget what. doesn't matter.

i'll admit, freely.. that this was a lifetime ago.. and it may not ever happen now, or it might be so rare that we don't hear of it anymore. but it absoloutly did happen.

truthfully Unob? i hope you're right, and it's a thing of the past. that would make me more comfortable in my pro-choice stance.

the problem with being pro choice is that i am fully aware some wome who would be making the choice are evil wicked idiots.

Oh, contrare, my friend.  Abstinence WAS an option for you....you simply chose to ignore it. Moi? I waited....got married, and at 21, rather than 15, 16, or....was happy with my choice.

So you think the morning after pill is abortion.  Therefore you think it is "murder."  I also asked if YOU would change the law and make all morning after abortions a crime punishable by prison? You did't answer.

So, once again, you have been granted you unlimited judicial power and now live in a world where the morning after pill is illegal.  Before your bench is a 16 year old girl who made a stupid hormone-induced mistake (we ALL made them as teenagers, remember?).  She aborted her two day old "baby" (that was smaller than a pinhead an consisted of a cluster of about 16 undefined cells) just last week using an illegal morning after pill.  She has already confessed to the crime.

Now, Judge Semi, you are judge, jury and executioner.  What is the punishment for this obvious "murder"?

If you do believe as you say you do, that murder is murder, then this is a horrendously evil way of thinking, Nagel.  What did that "baby" do to deserve to die?  

It is must easier if you accept the notion that a collection of 8, 16, 32, 64, ...512, 1024 little cells living in a cluster surrounded by a egg sack is really just that: a collection of disorganized, undifferentiated cells.  No more "alive" than your toe fungus. 

Nagel, there is nothing wrong with being both.  I am vehemently pro choice up to a point and just as vehemently pro life at another.  Why that is will require far more study than most on this forum are will or capable of.  Understanding would require a knowledge of biology, genetics and human development and most people just haven't taken the time.

Your stance, if you wish to be consistent, must be consistent under all conditions,  You can't be pro life yet are OK will killing a incest baby.

As is said, I won't continue this. It's getting us no where. You have your opinions, I have mine.

Hope you have a good evening.

nope. sorry. it wasn't a possible choice for me, juts like being homosexual wasn't an option. some things you choose... blue jeans or khakis... crew cut or mohawk... honda or chevy... republican or democrat... you make choices on thigns based on what you've observed.

somethings you don't choose.. hispanic or japanese... blue eyes or green eyes... tall or short...  stay virginal or not, homosexual or not. some things are decided for you by the hormones and and the way your brain cells fire and whether or not you need glasses.

it was no more possible for me to wait until marriage that it was possible for me to get hot looking at johnny depp or brad pitt.

admittedly, is also didn't WANT to wait, so even if it had been possible, i wouldn't have.

when you're 15 and male.. if the girl you are infatuated with walks into the room ( a buxom redhead) totally starkers and starts telling you everythign she wants to happen, in minute detail, while removing your clothing and rubbing you all over... it is NOT possible to say no unless you are homosexual or have testosterone deficencies.

today.. much older, much more experianced... yeah.. i'd just pat the poor girl on her head and buy her an ice cream and send her on her way, because my marriage is for more important to me than anything any other woman on the planet can provide.

but at 15? heh.. yeah. right.

and yes.. i was also very VERY happy with my choice.

however, the point was, it's absurd to assume and think all teenagers aren't going to jump on it just because adults ( whom they are begining to reguard as hoplessly out of touch and blind to the needs of a teenager) tell them it's better for them to wait.

some will. some won't. no matter what they are told, that's just simply the way it is. i knew four girls in high school with 'purity rings' becaue they joined some group with their dads, and promised to remain chaste until marriage and the ring was a token of that promise.  three were pregnant before graduation, and one wasn't sure who the father was. the 4th turned out to be a *******, so i think that's kind of a cheat. (i also find it just a little creepy for a dad to take such an active role in their teenage daughters sex life.)

i told my kids it's best if they wait. better for everyone involved. but i also made sure they knew about condoms, the pill, stds, and pregnancy.  i am absoloutly an abstainance advocate, i'm just not stupidly self-delusional enough to believe they'll do exactly what i've told them would be best for them.

i also told them that they alone are resonsable for their protection, never to believe the other person on anything about it... ' it's ok, i'm on the pill, you don't need that thing'... ''it's alright baby.. i had an accident when i was a kid and i'm sterile"

they know people lie to get what they want, and they know it's up to them to make sure they are as safe as possible from the ugly side of sex.

wait.. what?

what do i have to do with this?

i never said i was pro life. i think perhaps you've confused something someone else posted with something i said.

you don't have to explain why you are both pro-choice and pro-life, because i understand 100%.

i'm not ok with killing an incest baby, but it's the mothers choice.

i'm not ok with killing a product of rape, but it's the mothers choice.

i'm not ok with abortion-as-birth control, but it's the mothers choice

my statement qouted above IS consistant with my beliefs.

i remain pro choice even tho i KNOW some women out there use abortion as a way to rid them selves of an inconvience. even tho i don't like why they are doing what they are doing, i absoloutly stand rock soild that it's their choice to make, and no other person in the world should be able to tell them they aren't allowed to do it.

 i was merely saying that the idea of late term abortions being mostly a thing of hte past makes my position more comfortable to stand in. i wouldn't change it, either way, but you pointing out they are a rarity that's nearly extinct today makes me feel better about standing here.

Late term abortions aren't a thing of the past.

Hi Nagel,

Now, I am confused.  I always thought, in our discussions, that you are male.  Yet, looking at the portion of your post which I have highlighted -- I have to ask if you are female.  OR, is there something you want to tell us?   Not that we will look down upon you; but, I do admit that you have raised my curiosity bar a whole bunch.  And, Nagel, no matter which way you swing -- we can still be Friends.  But, please, no hand holding!     

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

funny, bill

tho, re reading my lines, i have to wonder what i meant about the glasses? i don't remember writing that - and have no idea what i was talking about.

just for the record, in case you weren't being a smartypants:

i meant, i couldn't choose to be homosexual any more than i could have chosen to continue being a virgin until marriage. it was no more possible for me to wait that it was possible for me to be turned on by those two.

STILL FRIENDS? 

vic,

What does Gallup have to say about the murder of women who want abortions?  Think you have a majority on that?

This is idiotic.  A woman has a right to control her own body, Alabama legislature be dammed.  Morality is not decided by Gallup polls.

DF

I don't usually comment to your silly, childish post but this one I will.

My friend's husband was also my friend. It was bad enough when she started using me as an excuse to meet her lover. But when she used me as a shopping trip to Birmingham to get her abortion, I said no more. Getting drawn into something like that is not my cup of tea! When I refused to be her alibi, she ended the friendship, & got no argument from me.

Of course they waited until marriage. Ignore all those "7 month babies" that were born but for some reason looked full term and didn't require incubation or a hospital stay.

And semi and anyone else has the right to object to that lifestyle and choose not to be friends or associate with someone who does those things.

No prob, Semi.  I hope you'll recall this next time you claim others do not answer questions.

When have I accused others of not answering questions?