Exactly how did he beliitle the student & why wasn't it mentioned in the articles in the paper? Even if he did, how would that justify beating the crap out of the coach?
Hiflyer, I didn't see you post earlier (didn't mean to ignore it). I never said I knew what the coach was doing when Mr. Jenkins stopped him. The law as it's written, says the teacher must be interrupted while doing his duty as a teacher. I don't know how many have been tried under this law, but that's one reason Allen Wilson wasn't convicted of the crime--he and Jenkins both stopped teachers in a hallway/open area, not in the classroom or gym.
You have to admit that the law is poorly written and open to interpretation. A better law would have stated a teacher or other school employee while on the clock, no?
From Kate Colombo 12/30
As for the child being unruly, he could have been, but he was in second grade at the time. I'm not sure yelling and belittling is the way to handle it at that age.
And around and around we go. There is still no proof been given that he even yelled at the child, much less belittled him.
Originally Posted by Kate Colombo:
I never said I knew what the coach was doing when Mr. Jenkins stopped him. The law as it's written, says the teacher must be interrupted while doing his duty as a teacher.
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Shouldn't make any difference what he was doing when Jenkins stopped him. He's a teacher, he was at work, which happened to be at school. If he's going from the classroom to the bathroom, if he's on break, he's still at work, he's there to do his job.
The teacher was "in the hall in front of the school's main office".
http://blog.al.com/breaking/20...with_assault_in.html
He could have been going to the office for a meeting, to use the fax machine, to use the printer. No matter what it was, he was doing his job. I'm sure he wasn't in the hallway to play hop scotch.
Originally Posted by Kate Colombo:
No, Semi said he "looked" like a bully. I'm asking how someone looks like a bully.
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No, Semi said "appearance" of a bully. You seem to know this man & what happened, that the truth wasn't told. Enlighten us.
Really, Semi? Here you mention acting and looking separately:
So what you see in a photo is not the true likeness of a person? Have you ever looked at someone & had a strong feeling of something good/bad about that person? I never said anything about his size or lack of a smile. I said he looks like a bully & according to the people that saw the video of what happened, he acted like a bully that day.
Just last week I was walking in downtown Florence with a friend. We passed a woman in her late 50s (at least) with spiked hair and more eyeliner than a raccoon. My friend said, "She must be some $%^&*." I tut-tutted my friend; next time I'll just say, "Well, the way she looks she sure must be one."
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Yes, he had the appearance of a bully. So if he had the "appearance" of a bully, my guess was he "looked" like one.
Definition of APPEARANCE: a: external show : semblance <although hostile, he preserved an appearance of neutrality>
b: outward aspect : look <had a fierce appearance>
Nothing wrong with spiked hair & alot of make-up. Your friend may prefer less make-up so she judges those that wears alot of it. We all have different opinions, she would probably think I look like a wh*re if she passed me on the street. I wear low neck shirts, (I'm not small breasted) have a tattoo, & wear a spiked hair style. It wouldn't bother me at all if she thought I look like a wh*re.
I might think she looked like a plain Jane. 
From semi: Shouldn't make any difference what he was doing when Jenkins stopped him. He's a teacher, he was at work, which happened to be at school. If he's going from the classroom to the bathroom, if he's on break, he's still at work, he's there to do his job.
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The law is simply not written that way. It says:
With intent to cause physical injury to a teacher or to an employee of a public educational institution during or as a result of the performance of his or her duty, he or she causes physical injury to any person.
Yes, it's poorly written, but if Chris Krieger was on a lunch, bathroom, or other break, he was not performing his duties. If that's the case, I'm sure Mr. Odem will use it on appeal.
On a lighter note, if Krieger was on his way to the bathroom, he could say his students had make him physically ill and he was going as a result of the performance of his duties.
Originally Posted by Kate Colombo:
From semi: Shouldn't make any difference what he was doing when Jenkins stopped him. He's a teacher, he was at work, which happened to be at school. If he's going from the classroom to the bathroom, if he's on break, he's still at work, he's there to do his job.
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The law is simply not written that way. It says:
With intent to cause physical injury to a teacher or to an employee of a public educational institution during or as a result of the performance of his or her duty, he or she causes physical injury to any person.
Yes, it's poorly written, but if Chris Krieger was on a lunch, bathroom, or other break, he was not performing his duties. If that's the case, I'm sure Mr. Odem will use it on appeal.
On a lighter note, if Krieger was on his way to the bathroom, he could say his students had make him physically ill and he was going as a result of the performance of his duties.
You have to admit that the law is poorly written and open to interpretation. A better law would have stated a teacher or other school employee while on the clock, no?
Actually I agree with semi first I do not believe most teachers are hourly and he was at the school. If he slipped and fell on his way to the bathroom etc he would have still been at work for workmans comp etc. you are trying hard to make a case to suit your point of view. Teachers often meet with parents after school and coaches work after school with kids etc so I believe in the performance of his duties fits. If he was attacked at the donut shop or mall then I would say you have a case.
I don't understand why teachers or coaches are given their very own special law. Why is it worse to hit a teacher than to hit a sales clerk at the mall? To me the whole law is silly.
"On the clock" is an expression. A teacher falling in a school may be covered by workman's comp, but it might or might not be related to his/her duties.
How about this. Many years ago teachers were paid their full salary in nine months time. Later it was changed to a 12 month pay out system. So if a teacher on summer break is hit by a parent from the previous year over some real or imagined act, is it still Second Degree Assault? They're still being paid as a teacher...
Jank, the law is silly. Look at our capital punishment laws. We have umpteen on the books in Alabama and some make no sense in many casees. I'm not sure if Alabama is worse than other states, but we certainly have some doozies here.
Did you know it's on the law books that a prisoner who performs work must be supplied with a tobacco ration if he or she wants it. I'm surprised no one in jail has sued over that yet.
Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
I don't understand why teachers or coaches are given their very own special law. Why is it worse to hit a teacher than to hit a sales clerk at the mall? To me the whole law is silly.
I agree but we are discussing if the law is needed we are debating the during duty provision. In the end the parent assaulted a teacher on school property. It was well within the parents ability to stay out of jail by acting in a civilized manner. We do not know all the facts but I am sure the judge knew most of them and that had a impact on the sentence. It's a fact of life that certain segments of society lobby and get laws passed in their interest.
Does it really matter where he attacked the man?
Originally Posted by HIFLYER2:
Originally Posted by Jankinonya:
I don't understand why teachers or coaches are given their very own special law. Why is it worse to hit a teacher than to hit a sales clerk at the mall? To me the whole law is silly.
I agree but we are discussing if the law is needed we are debating the during duty provision. In the end the parent assaulted a teacher on school property. It was well within the parents ability to stay out of jail by acting in a civilized manner. We do not know all the facts but I am sure the judge knew most of them and that had a impact on the sentence. It's a fact of life that certain segments of society lobby and get laws passed in their interest.
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Agreed. I just think it was a bit over board myself. I have a friend that was attacked and beaten pretty badly in a parking lot a few years ago. The guys that did it got 60 days suspended sentence. It was just a random act of violence and yet they walked away because apparently my friend isn't as special as teachers are. 
I think the guy should have been punished for his crime, but I think the punishment should fit the crime. Didn't the judge say he was going to make an example of the offender? I dislike those kind of judgments. I think each crime should be judged on its evidence and individual circumstances. No one should be singled out to be an example for others. It does not deter crime. We have the death penalty for capitol murder, but people still murder every day.
Lord knows that when my kids were in school there were a few teachers (and one coach that has been mentioned in this thread) that I wanted to hit.LOL They are humans like the rest of us and they do stupid and mean things sometimes. When someone does something bad to your children then you as a parent can loose all sense of propriety. Nothing will get my anger up faster than hurting my child. I have not seen what was said to the child by the coach. Anyone have that info? We make allowances in courts for crimes of passion. Well, we at least take it into consideration. Doesn't seem like the judge considered the emotions that can be involved when dealing with a parent feeling like their child has been wronged.
We could all be judges if we just went by the letter of the law and never weighed the circumstances involved in some crimes. I think judges are appointed to do more than just read the law on the books and enforce the highest penalty allowed by law. At least I don't vote for any judge for that reason. I vote for the one that seems to have a level head and can make good judgements based on both law and reason.
Also, I was responding to the original post on this thread. I had not read all the arguing going on about whether the coach was performing his duties or not. I think the whole law is silly to begin with and completely unneeded. I don't care to get into the semantics of whether or not it applied in this instance. It should not even be on the books. IMO
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Exactly how did he beliitle the student & why wasn't it mentioned in the articles in the paper? Even if he did, how would that justify beating the crap out of the coach?
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Semi, if someone was belittling my 8 year old child, especially someone that has authority over them, you can bet they would have to deal with me. If they got smart with me, they might just get smacked. 
Don't mess with my kids. 
I too would like to know what was said to the child. So far I haven't seen it reported anywhere. If this parent had no reason to confront the coach I would like to know. Seems kinda odd though that the guy doesn't have a criminal back ground for violence of any kind and then just suddenly went to the school and started arguing and hitting a coach. I know it happens (recently even) but its not normal or usual behavior. Sounds like he was provoked to me. Not an excuse really, but at least a reason.
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Does it really matter where he attacked the man?
_______________________
Nope, nor should it matter that he was a teacher.
Originally Posted by softball1:
My answer would be that the coach is working for his tax payer money. It's called a job. I don't know the family and there are lots of people who really need disablity money. I also know there are many more people who draw a check and do not try to work in any way when they are more than capable. If the man accused can beat up a teacher, surely he also has the physical capablity to work and not live off the government. One of the above posters said he drew disability as well. As for putting adopted in quotation marks, I was questioning whether these children were foster children (which Mr. Jenkins could also receive money from the government for these foster children) or if they were actually adopted. I'd be willing to bet that they are foster children. I do agree that I shouldn't make generalizations, but the wording in the article and on this forum had me curious. Also, I believe attacking a teacher at school carries more consequences that just attacking someone at a private home or business or on the street. I believe it is considered a felony. Someone correct me here if I'm wrong.
As to your first point. I would say that you have not answered the question I posed. "How would you feel........" We are all aware of what a "job" is. Either that was a poor attempt at deflection or you are too emotionally charged to stop and reflect on what you posted.
"In for a penny, in for a pound" remember?
Let's just suppose that Mr. Jenkins is "fostering" the children and receiving a support check for their benefit. He is providing a service for which is compensated. You know, kinda like a "job". Taxpayer money at work.
As far as his physical abilities, I have no opinion except I will say that when the adrenaline flows............
As far as I know, he very well could be gainfully employed. The comments that I have read concerning receiving aid were in connection with his wife. If I missed where he is receiving aid then I apologize. Even though it is a moot point as far as this overall discussion is concerned. Which is the reason I called you out, remember?
We know little of the facts concerning this case. Only what has been reported. We do not know if he attempted to discuss his "issue" with administrators prior to this act. Again, we know little of the facts......
Yes, we are all aware that there are laws on the books specifically for assault on teachers, coaches, and officials. For a group that is not a "union" you have a heck of a good lobbyist..... Why is that even necessary? Assault is assault, is it not? The law was a knee jerk reaction. Another in a long line of well intended, but pointless, laws.
Keep this in mind. He was convicted of second degree assault, right? Was the sentence in accordance with prior rulings of "guilty of second degree assault"?
It does not matter at this point whether it was a teacher or "Joe the Plumber". Second Degree Assault......How would you feel (snap, here we go again) if you were handed a sentence that different greatly from others who had received the same sentence? Seems as if I heard something along the lines of "equal protection under the law" somewhere. Note: That also applies to the guilty to protect against "harsh" punishment.
Keep this in mind also. This law has not been brought before the Supreme Court........yet. I wouldn't "hang my hat" on a piece of legislature that has not been fully "tested".
As to your latter post and the question that you posed. As a parent I would say it starts at home. I will not tolerate my children being dis-respectful, however teachers are not infallible. Respect goes both ways. There is a fine line between being dis-respectful and standing firm on your principles. I have also taught my children to not "suffer a fool".
eh. I've been in the school system a long, long time and I've never heard any teacher be overly disrespectful to a child. not saying it doesn't happen. I've been at 4 different schools. never heard one teacher being purposely ugly or disrespectful to a child. Have heard teachers disciplining children/students. I have heard quite a few unruly students get very disrespectful with adult authority. and 99.9% of the time the teacher keeps their cool. teachers aren't the bad guy here. People like Mr. Jenkins who go in to schools and beat up teachers are the bad guys. He admitted he was in the wrong and apologized for doing so. If we didn't have a law to protect teachers, kids would go home and tell their parents all kinds of stories. you know what would happen? people would come to the school and beat the teacher up or worse. you have heard of school shootings haven't you? the law is there to protect teachers. In light of recent events, don't you think they need protection? my guess is that the coach did yell at the kid. most PE teachers are in charge of 50+ kids. Maybe it was for safety sake or maybe the kid was beating up another kid? maybe he was out of line, but you don't go and beat someone up for that. Now, since Mr. Jenkins admitted his guilt and apologized, maybe he should have gotten a lighter sentence. Unfortunately, that isn't for me or you to decide. That is the judge's job.
and as far as comparing sentences. each case deals with different individuals hence different sentences. you can't expect all sentences to be the same? it would be nice if it worked that way, but it doesn't. as wrong as it is, who you are and your place in life determines what sentence one will receive.
No I have been living in a cave.......under a rock.....
The point I was trying to get across to you is that this piece of legislation does nothing to protect you. It is a bluff,pure and simple, and gives you a false sense of security. Again, assault is assault.
If someone wants to beat you "up" that badly............
Yes, teachers need protection when doing their jobs. This bill doesn't do it....And kids have been going home and telling tales about their teachers for a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time.
Look, I have "walked" the sidelines. I know very well that sometimes you have to yell. It goes with the territory. I have also been confronted by parents about yelling at their children, it never escalated to this point. An explanation and concern for the child goes a long way. You do know that there is a bill specifically for "sports" authorities, right? What protection does it offer. None, zip, nada.
Again, a knee jerk reaction.
Now, as to rest of your post. Sentencing guide lines, you have heard of those right?Judicial Review, you have heard of that right?
When you get a minute.......define overly disrespectful. Is that kinda like being overly pregnant?
Jank, since you said:Lord knows that when my kids were in school there were a few teachers (and one coach that has been mentioned in this thread) that I wanted to hit
Do you feel free to tell us if he ever belittled your kids or yelled for no/not a good reason? That's just if you feel it appropriate since we're all anonymous here. I'll say that I've heard plenty from friends, but since it's not first hand knowledge, I'm sure not everyone would give it credence.
Also three cheers to Ubu for being a voice of sanity!
Oh well, the judge decided after hearing the facts. One thing about it, whether he ever does his time, or does get to walk, he'll think twice before jumping on someone else.
Originally Posted by Bestworking:
Oh well, the judge decided after hearing the facts. One thing about it, whether he ever does his time, or does get to walk, he'll think twice before jumping on someone else.
Bingo and that's why we have punishment to make someone pay for actions and try to prevent future ones. You say the coach had to have done something bad well that is not always the case. This dad beat the coach unconscious for making his kid do laps! The criminal dads family then says it is acceptable behavior attack soemone.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/...orced-150533694.html
I am not a teacher and have had run ins with teachers but never resorted to assault.
Originally Posted by Kate Colombo:
Jank, since you said:Lord knows that when my kids were in school there were a few teachers (and one coach that has been mentioned in this thread) that I wanted to hit
Do you feel free to tell us if he ever belittled your kids or yelled for no/not a good reason? That's just if you feel it appropriate since we're all anonymous here. I'll say that I've heard plenty from friends, but since it's not first hand knowledge, I'm sure not everyone would give it credence.
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My son was in Wilson's class at Brooks. Wilson was a smart a s s to most all the students from what I understand and my son was no exception. He went too far one day when he tried to goad my son into hitting him. He stood over him at his desk and kept saying "I know you want to hit me, come on do it, do it" He couldn't get my son to loose his temper saying that so he said "you will never amount to anything. You will be in prison by the time you are 21" This all started because my son forgot to bring his pencil to class. My son was (is) ADHD and Wilson had also made comments saying that "it is not a real disorder, its just the label we put on stupid kids these days"
The next day I went to talk to him. He was very aggressive and would not let me finish a sentence before interrupting me. I kept asking him why he would try and provoke a student to hit him and he would not answer me accept to say that his daughter was a lawyer and that if my son did hit him not only would he be expelled he would also sue us. I told him I was going to file a complaint with the school about his behavior with my son and he just laughed. He said I would not be the first one and it would get no where. I hate to admit it but he was right. I filed complaints and even wrote letters to the board. Nothing ever came of it. It was about a year later when he attacked the other teacher at school. My son had already graduated and was off to college when Wilson was arrested. I called him to tell him about what was going on at the home front and he found it humorous that Wilson was the one in jail before my son had turned 21.
After my run in with Wilson I started hearing from other parents with similar stories of him being verbally abusive to students. From what I understand Wilson had quite a large file of complaints against him, yet the school board never took action until he went off on another teacher and it was all over the news. I always wondered why it took that for him to be fired. Who did he know on the board and what did he know on them.
Jank, that is one of the most horrible stories I've ever heard. And not the "hit me" part. For him to say your son would never amount to anything is abuse of the highest order. I've heard Dr. Valentine preferred to keep the male teachers no matter what. Now Valentine is leaving, and I hope Jennifer Gray will be a thorough new broom. BTW, I know several ADHD kids, and it's certainly real enough. I can see how you can get irritated, but you can laugh along with them too.
I would most certainly like a new law to protect teachers. sounds great. there have been many arguments on this forum regarding Wilson. According to former students, he was a great teacher for those who were there to learn. For those who wanted to cause trouble and were not there to learn, he was a jerk. Is that appropriate? no. I really don't know what that has to do with the subject of Mr. Jenkins. Maybe the person posting wanted to prove that teachers can be in the wrong in handling discipline? No one is perfect, but the vast majority of teachers do their jobs.
Originally Posted by softball1:
I would most certainly like a new law to protect teachers. sounds great. there have been many arguments on this forum regarding Wilson. According to former students, he was a great teacher for those who were there to learn. For those who wanted to cause trouble and were not there to learn, he was a jerk. Is that appropriate? no. I really don't know what that has to do with the subject of Mr. Jenkins. Maybe the person posting wanted to prove that teachers can be in the wrong in handling discipline? No one is perfect, but the vast majority of teachers do their jobs.
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I don't know why they drag up other cases either. One has nothing to do with the other. It's like saying one guy robbed a store and got less time than another, but you don't know the circumstances of each case. I keep "saying", all involved know the facts, we only know a very few, one of those being jenkins tried to lie but the video caught him in that lie. The lying could have figured into the judges decision too.
Originally Posted by softball1:
I would most certainly like a new law to protect teachers. sounds great. there have been many arguments on this forum regarding Wilson. According to former students, he was a great teacher for those who were there to learn. For those who wanted to cause trouble and were not there to learn, he was a jerk. Is that appropriate? no. I really don't know what that has to do with the subject of Mr. Jenkins. Maybe the person posting wanted to prove that teachers can be in the wrong in handling discipline? No one is perfect, but the vast majority of teachers do their jobs.
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1. softball, what law do you want passed over and above the one being discussed?
2. Why bring Allen Wilson into the mix? As far as I know, he's the only local case before Jenkins who has been tried using the Second Degree Assault law against interfering with teachers, etc. Since Wilson was convicted of Third Degree Assault, Jenkins is the first local to be convicted under this law.
3. We now have the same law concerning health care workers in a medical setting who are working with patients. In other words, if a psychopath enters a hospital room where a female dietician is leaving a pamphlet and a male tech is drawing blood and assaults them both, he can be charged with only Third Degree concerning the woman, but Second Degree in the assault on the tech. Is this right? Our lawmakers don't think things out before they pass these laws.
Originally Posted by softball1:
I would most certainly like a new law to protect teachers. sounds great. there have been many arguments on this forum regarding Wilson. According to former students, he was a great teacher for those who were there to learn. For those who wanted to cause trouble and were not there to learn, he was a jerk. Is that appropriate? no. I really don't know what that has to do with the subject of Mr. Jenkins. Maybe the person posting wanted to prove that teachers can be in the wrong in handling discipline? No one is perfect, but the vast majority of teachers do their jobs.
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Oh yeah, I remember now that you are a champion of that a-hole Wilson. My son was there to learn. He has ADHD so it takes a real teacher that wants to teach when dealing with him or any other child with ADHD. Wilson could not be bothered. My son went on to attend college at Auburn and is doing well. I agree that Wilson had his picks. I have a friend who's son loved Wilson. Doesn't change the fact that he abused his authority and mistreated many many other children. All those parents with kids that he verbally abused just had bad kids, huh? Yet, he was the one that attacked a fellow teacher and was arrested. He is the one that had complaints against him going back to his early days of teaching. In your mind he was the innocent victim of his own crime. No one said there are not good teachers. I know plenty of awesome teachers. Wilson is not one of them. Thankfully he will never have the opportunity to mistreat students again or go on a rampage and beat up a fellow teacher.
As for why he was brought up in this discussion. Well let's see.....We are discussing a man that received a very strong sentence for going into a school and hitting a coach/teacher. As with any discussion most people will bring up similar situations for comparison. Wilson's case was very similar yet he got way less in jail time than this guy. Same judge, same court room. As some have said there could have been other circumstance that made these two incidences different in the eyes of the court. However, we have not been shown or told of anything that would make Jenkins offense so much worse than Wilson's other than Jenkins is not a teacher. Basically that is how discussions usually go. One topic leads to others. In this case talking about Wilson seems very appropriate seeing as how it was probably the last case in our county before Jenkins that dealt with this subject.
There...I connected the dots for you guys. Feel better?
Kate, seems we were responding at the same time. Sorry for the overlap.
Well I for one don't feel better.
YOU LET YOUR SON GO TO AUBURN?
(((((snicker))))
Sorry Jank, I could not resist that one.
I agree, you should whip me. I've been a naughty boy, a very naughty boy
ohhhhh and Kate, knowing you are an Auburn fan also.......you should probably give me a whipping too.
I will admit it was not my first choice for my kids. I actually have 3 there! I have come to love Auburn. You have to support the school where your money is going right?
As for spankings.....I feel I am in great peril!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtcSYPjJbgg
Let me have just a little bit of peril...............bahahahahahaha
Love Monty