Skip to main content

Recently a gun promoter wrote an op-ed in the New York Times promoting mandatory ownership of gun laws. Yes, that's right, "Instapundit" Glenn Reynolds lauded such crazed, unenforceable legislation: "to the extent that they actually make a difference," he wrote, "it is likely to be positive one." http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/FSA/signUp.jsp?key=1934

The Link is to a petition. You can sign if you wish, but the body of the petition is the information I think should be a topic.
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Although I don't advocate anybody being required to possess a gun....don't ever make the mistake of trying to take mine away...


Same here, I did sign the petition, name K*** "GUN OWNER" L****. I don't want the bad guy who comes in my house to be carrying a gun HE WAS REQUIRED TO OWN.
I do not think there should be a "mandatory" gun owner law. I own 26 myself, and some people out there frankly should never own a gun. That would include: felons, sexual predators, and anyone who just doesn't want to own one.

However, there should never be anti-gun laws that restrict someone the right to own one.

They try to come get mine, well, they will get a quick dose of 7.62mm NATO......or 5.56mm NATO....or .30-06 aka .30 cal M2 Ball...etc.....
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
I do not think there should be a "mandatory" gun owner law. I own 26 myself, and some people out there frankly should never own a gun. That would include: felons, sexual predators, and anyone who just doesn't want to own one.

However, there should never be anti-gun laws that restrict someone the right to own one.

They try to come get mine, well, they will get a quick dose of 7.62mm NATO......or 5.56mm NATO....or .30-06 aka .30 cal M2 Ball...etc.....
brentenman, are you willing to put your name on the petition? No requirement that you answer, I actually believe in allowing anyone the right to express an opinion without fear of retalliation, but I would like to satisfy a curiosity. You and I both oppose prohibition of gun ownership, I favor regulation of the types of guns on the market. Your arsenal includes some firearms that if personally object to seeing outside military or police armories. I know because I bothered to look at your profile. My popgun collection contains .22 and .188 and .08 only. Have you ever seen a Daisy .08 pistol? or a Franklin .22 pump pistol? You are likely familiar with the Crossman .ll8 rifle and pistol, most people are.
A few months ago our house was broken into. We have 2 pistols, locked up in cases. i don't even know where my husband keeps the bullets.LOL

When I got out of the car and finally realized somebody had kicked in the door to get into the house, I reacted (quite stupidly, actually). I looked around the garage for the most dangerous weapon I could find, which was a heavy duty bolt cutter. I brandished it like a baseball bat and went into the house (I'm shaking my head in disbelief of what a dumba** I was). I never thought I could hurt anyone, but, if I had come upon an intruder, I trully would have beaten the hell out of him. It was a good thing I didn't have a gun. They actually stole one shotgun and a Playstation and some computers. The police say it was probably kids, from the evidence. There were so many other valuable things they passed right over- thank God.

My son's principal (who is black) told me a joke the other day after she heard what happened to us. She said when a black person's front door is left wide open, and they come home, they think, "Somebody's done broke into my house!" And when a white person sees the door open, she says, "Hmm... I wonder who left the door open?" LOL!!!! This is exactly what I thought when I saw both the garage door and the door to the house open that day. And the funny thing was the kids were at school and my husband had left for work.

I believe you should be able to own a gun if you want. Forced ownership is no different from banning guns altogether, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.
EdEKit, I think you need to reread the petition you linked to. It is a petition in favor of prohibiting any law being passed that requires the public to own a gun. At best, it's a real good, feel good thing that will be distorted to say that a percentage is against guns. At worst, it'll end up being part of some Ted Kennedy attempt to ban firearm ownership from private citizens all together.

Brentenman, 26 is a good start...keep it up. My last count was over 90.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
EdEKit, I think you need to reread the petition you linked to. It is a petition in favor of prohibiting any law being passed that requires the public to own a gun. At best, it's a real good, feel good thing that will be distorted to say that a percentage is against guns. At worst, it'll end up being part of some Ted Kennedy attempt to ban firearm ownership from private citizens all together.

Brentenman, 26 is a good start...keep it up. My last count was over 90.

First, I know what the petition asked. It asks that MANDATORY GUN OWNERSHIP NOT BECOME LAW. Second, I know that it is a petition from a TOTAL GUN CONTROL GROUP. Third I signed it with my full name, as they asked, but added "GUN OWNER" TO THE NAME. I am not in favor of the fundamental position of the petitioner to OUTLAW ALL GUN OWNERSHIP. I am in TOTAL agreement with the Petition to NOT MANDATE gun ownership. Like I said, I don't want the Jerk who comes into my house with ill intent to do it carrying a GUN HE IS REQUIRED TO OWN.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
I do not think there should be a "mandatory" gun owner law. I own 26 myself, and some people out there frankly should never own a gun. That would include: felons, sexual predators, and anyone who just doesn't want to own one.

However, there should never be anti-gun laws that restrict someone the right to own one.

They try to come get mine, well, they will get a quick dose of 7.62mm NATO......or 5.56mm NATO....or .30-06 aka .30 cal M2 Ball...etc.....
brentenman, are you willing to put your name on the petition? No requirement that you answer, I actually believe in allowing anyone the right to express an opinion without fear of retalliation, but I would like to satisfy a curiosity. You and I both oppose prohibition of gun ownership, I favor regulation of the types of guns on the market. Your arsenal includes some firearms that if personally object to seeing outside military or police armories. I know because I bothered to look at your profile. My popgun collection contains .22 and .188 and .08 only. Have you ever seen a Daisy .08 pistol? or a Franklin .22 pump pistol? You are likely familiar with the Crossman .ll8 rifle and pistol, most people are.


I will have to look at the petition.

Secondly, 5.56mm NATO = .223 Remington; 7.62x51mm NATO = .308 Winchester; .30-06 as I stated.

No, those calibers should NOT be banned, should NOT be regulated. Most popular sporting/hunting rifle calibers in the USA started out as a military round. I do not believe in banning "assault weapons" as the media calls them, erronously. Military weapons are already regulated according to the 1934, 1968, and 1986 Gun Control Acts (al three of which need a hefty modification, if not removal, from regulation).

The ONLY guns I would like to see removed from the market are the cheap, "gang-banger" guns. I have seen bucket-barrel fulls confiscated and stored at various police departments in Alabama before I left for the Army. They are mostly Raven and Jennings .25 ACP semi-auto pistols, made from cast metal, same metal Hot Wheels toy cars are made of. Total junk. Garbage. They should be confiscated, removed from the market, and junked. Some may disagree from me, but, well, junk is junk. They are an embarrassment to the gunmakers craft.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
EdEKit, I think you need to reread the petition you linked to. It is a petition in favor of prohibiting any law being passed that requires the public to own a gun. At best, it's a real good, feel good thing that will be distorted to say that a percentage is against guns. At worst, it'll end up being part of some Ted Kennedy attempt to ban firearm ownership from private citizens all together.

Brentenman, 26 is a good start...keep it up. My last count was over 90.

First, I know what the petition asked. It asks that MANDATORY GUN OWNERSHIP NOT BECOME LAW. Second, I know that it is a petition from a TOTAL GUN CONTROL GROUP. Third I signed it with my full name, as they asked, but added "GUN OWNER" TO THE NAME. I am not in favor of the fundamental position of the petitioner to OUTLAW ALL GUN OWNERSHIP. I am in TOTAL agreement with the Petition to NOT MANDATE gun ownership. Like I said, I don't want the Jerk who comes into my house with ill intent to do it carrying a GUN HE IS REQUIRED TO OWN.


OK.....?????..........I don't understand your reasoning in thinking a lawful and legal (which is what he would be if he's obeying the law that says he's got to own one) gun owner is going to come into your house with "ill intent".

Bad guys don't work that way. Bad guys intent on burglary don't bring weapons...they pick one up at the house. All of them have learned that it's an enhancement to the penalty if caught if they're armed during the burglary.

And if he brings a gun, any gun, to your house with "ill intent", what difference does it make if he's using one he's required to own, or one that he's not required to own, or one that he's forbidden to own???? If he's armed and making you fear for your safety, shoot him down like a rabid dog. Shoot for center mass, and don't stop shooting until the situation is resolved. Use enough gun....12 gauge work real fine, but in a pinch .45 ACP will get the job done. I prefer 1 ounce slugs myself, but hey, 00 buck does wonders as an attitude adjuster. Not to mention a few Black Talons in the ole .45.
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Brentenman, I have a friend that owns a now get this a 'daisy' .22cal.rimfire rifle. It was never sold that I know of to the open market. What is that little daisy worth? Please give me a good est. I know I could turn a profit on it.


Several years ago, in the late 1980's to the 1990's, Daisy made a cheap, metal and plastic .22 caliber rifle that was aimed toward the youth market. YOu could buy one at WalMart when they were sold for around $60. If that is it, sorry to have burst your bubble.
Now, if it is vintage, I honestly do not have a clue. Get a Blue Book of Gun Values or go to www.gunbroker.com or www.gunsamerica.com and search the for sale listings to get an idea.

FYI: the appraised and insured value of my gun collection is in the neighborhood of $34,000 dollars. If Hildabeast gets elected, I see it doubling in value overnight...and increasing in number of guns in the collection ASAP.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
EdEKit, I think you need to reread the petition you linked to. It is a petition in favor of prohibiting any law being passed that requires the public to own a gun. At best, it's a real good, feel good thing that will be distorted to say that a percentage is against guns. At worst, it'll end up being part of some Ted Kennedy attempt to ban firearm ownership from private citizens all together.

Brentenman, 26 is a good start...keep it up. My last count was over 90.


I move alot...so I have to be selective in what to buy. I love WW2 US Infantry Weapons...I have modern stuff, too, but just don't care for Warsaw Pact stuff (i.e. AK's, SKS's, etc). I have a friend of mine in Florence who has over 100, and I know his collection is worth in the $250,000 range at least.

2 weeks ago at the Missouri Valley Collectors Gunshow in North Kansas City, I saw the FINEST M1 Garand collection I have ever seen. Over 80 M1's, including: 4 gas-trap M1's, 4 M1C sniper rifles, 5 M1D sniper rifles, and makers representing Winchester, Springfield Armory, Harrington and Richardson, and International Harvester....all of the M1's shown were 100% original and correct, and I make the value of the collection at least $4-5 million dollars.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Brentenman, I have a friend that owns a now get this a 'daisy' .22cal.rimfire rifle. It was never sold that I know of to the open market. What is that little daisy worth? Please give me a good est. I know I could turn a profit on it.


There's one on Gunbroker with a starting bid of $310.00, with no bidders. Go to www.gunbroker.com, search "daisy 22".


I just checked it out...3 bidders, no reserve. Current bid is $31.00, NOT $310.00.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=64714199
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Brentenman, I have a friend that owns a now get this a 'daisy' .22cal.rimfire rifle. It was never sold that I know of to the open market. What is that little daisy worth? Please give me a good est. I know I could turn a profit on it.


There's one on Gunbroker with a starting bid of $310.00, with no bidders. Go to www.gunbroker.com, search "daisy 22".


I just checked it out...3 bidders, no reserve. Current bid is $31.00, NOT $310.00.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=64714199


You are looking at a different auction than the one I was :

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=64653522

The one I found IS AT $0.00, with a starting bid of $310.00
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
<snip>
I will have to look at the petition.

Secondly, 5.56mm NATO = .223 Remington; 7.62x51mm NATO = .308 Winchester; .30-06 as I stated.

No, those calibers should NOT be banned, should NOT be regulated. Most popular sporting/hunting rifle calibers in the USA started out as a military round. I do not believe in banning "assault weapons" as the media calls them, erronously. Military weapons are already regulated according to the 1934, 1968, and 1986 Gun Control Acts (al three of which need a hefty modification, if not removal, from regulation).

The ONLY guns I would like to see removed from the market are the cheap, "gang-banger" guns. I have seen bucket-barrel fulls confiscated and stored at various police departments in Alabama before I left for the Army. They are mostly Raven and Jennings .25 ACP semi-auto pistols, made from cast metal, same metal Hot Wheels toy cars are made of. Total junk. Garbage. They should be confiscated, removed from the market, and junked. Some may disagree from me, but, well, junk is junk. They are an embarrassment to the gunmakers craft.

I cut out the posts I was finished with.
brentenman,
I agree on the Saturday Night Special, I would put a reverse excise tax schedule on firearms. As the Value and Quality of the weapon declined, the tax would increase. If the .25 semi auto starts cheap even in high quality brands.
An excise tax that rose as the value of the pistol dropped would instantly drive the Saturday night special off the market. Remember, I'm a liberal, and I will urge using virtually any government power to regulate markets. I thought of suggesting a "Federally mandated minimum price" for all handguns, say twenty five hundred dollars. But that is to liberal, even for me.
What I would propose is a Price level that makes the qualit of the weapon the determining factor. and the lower the quality the higher the tax. It could be based on the effective life of the weapon. Say the Colt wears out after 1500 rounds, and the Raven after 500 rounds. You set the tax at 1500 dollars, and reduce it by one dollar for each shot the weapon can fire in its effective life. TAX ON THE COLT ZERO. TAX ON THE RAVEN ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Tax on a Llama, 25 dollars. Tax on a Smith and Wesson, less than zero, but set at zero because you don't want to subsidize the sale of Smith and Wesson over Colt. Of course there is the problem of letting a colt fancier determine the life span of the pistol. And there is the problem of the arbitrary nature of the judgement of effective lifespan.
You could also accomplish the same result by using the wholesale price of the weapon. Tax 1500 dollars less 5 times the wholesale price of the weapon. 200 dollar wholesale = tax of 500 dollars 400 dollar wholesale = tax of zero dollars.
Retail price of the cheaper gun, 980 dollars, the higher quality gun, 560 dollars. (markup 40% of wholesale price including tax)
See Liberals can make plans, suggest implementing them and solve problems.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
<snip>
I will have to look at the petition.

Secondly, 5.56mm NATO = .223 Remington; 7.62x51mm NATO = .308 Winchester; .30-06 as I stated.

No, those calibers should NOT be banned, should NOT be regulated. Most popular sporting/hunting rifle calibers in the USA started out as a military round. I do not believe in banning "assault weapons" as the media calls them, erronously. Military weapons are already regulated according to the 1934, 1968, and 1986 Gun Control Acts (al three of which need a hefty modification, if not removal, from regulation).

The ONLY guns I would like to see removed from the market are the cheap, "gang-banger" guns. I have seen bucket-barrel fulls confiscated and stored at various police departments in Alabama before I left for the Army. They are mostly Raven and Jennings .25 ACP semi-auto pistols, made from cast metal, same metal Hot Wheels toy cars are made of. Total junk. Garbage. They should be confiscated, removed from the market, and junked. Some may disagree from me, but, well, junk is junk. They are an embarrassment to the gunmakers craft.

I cut out the posts I was finished with.
brentenman,
I agree on the Saturday Night Special, I would put a reverse excise tax schedule on firearms. As the Value and Quality of the weapon declined, the tax would increase. If the .25 semi auto starts cheap even in high quality brands.
An excise tax that rose as the value of the pistol dropped would instantly drive the Saturday night special off the market. Remember, I'm a liberal, and I will urge using virtually any government power to regulate markets. I thought of suggesting a "Federally mandated minimum price" for all handguns, say twenty five hundred dollars. But that is to liberal, even for me.
What I would propose is a Price level that makes the qualit of the weapon the determining factor. and the lower the quality the higher the tax. It could be based on the effective life of the weapon. Say the Colt wears out after 1500 rounds, and the Raven after 500 rounds. You set the tax at 1500 dollars, and reduce it by one dollar for each shot the weapon can fire in its effective life. TAX ON THE COLT ZERO. TAX ON THE RAVEN ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Tax on a Llama, 25 dollars. Tax on a Smith and Wesson, less than zero, but set at zero because you don't want to subsidize the sale of Smith and Wesson over Colt. Of course there is the problem of letting a colt fancier determine the life span of the pistol. And there is the problem of the arbitrary nature of the judgement of effective lifespan.
You could also accomplish the same result by using the wholesale price of the weapon. Tax 1500 dollars less 5 times the wholesale price of the weapon. 200 dollar wholesale = tax of 500 dollars 400 dollar wholesale = tax of zero dollars.
Retail price of the cheaper gun, 980 dollars, the higher quality gun, 560 dollars. (markup 40% of wholesale price including tax)
See Liberals can make plans, suggest implementing them and solve problems.


Registration leads to taxation which leads to confiscation.

I do not believe in taxes on guns, except for the sales tax when you buy it from a dealer.

People's Republik of Kalifornia, Washington, D.C., New York City, Chicagorad Illinois, etc. all had registrations which led to confiscations and bannigns. Australia and Great Britain and Canada have done the same, with most severe in Australia and Great Britain.

So, to your plan, I say "no, thank you".
Saturday Nite Special is also a liberal media term for a small pistol....Some small pistols, ie Walther PPK, Detonics Combat Master, etc. are worth way over $500 or more.

Just like "assault weapons", liberals 9/10 make up terms to scare people into believing and passing "sensible gun control laws." I have never heard of a "sensible gun control law". Generally, it leads to banning of guns in one form or the other. I have already listed states and cities and countries who started out with 'sensible gun control' and it lead to outright bans.

Only gun control I believe in is putting your first round either center mass or in the forehead of an attacker/enemy soldier, the center chest or mass front of the briskit of a game animal, or the center of the bullseye at 600 yards downrange while shooting an NRA highpower service rifle match.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
<snip>
I will have to look at the petition.

Secondly, 5.56mm NATO = .223 Remington; 7.62x51mm NATO = .308 Winchester; .30-06 as I stated.

No, those calibers should NOT be banned, should NOT be regulated. Most popular sporting/hunting rifle calibers in the USA started out as a military round. I do not believe in banning "assault weapons" as the media calls them, erronously. Military weapons are already regulated according to the 1934, 1968, and 1986 Gun Control Acts (al three of which need a hefty modification, if not removal, from regulation).

The ONLY guns I would like to see removed from the market are the cheap, "gang-banger" guns. I have seen bucket-barrel fulls confiscated and stored at various police departments in Alabama before I left for the Army. They are mostly Raven and Jennings .25 ACP semi-auto pistols, made from cast metal, same metal Hot Wheels toy cars are made of. Total junk. Garbage. They should be confiscated, removed from the market, and junked. Some may disagree from me, but, well, junk is junk. They are an embarrassment to the gunmakers craft.

I cut out the posts I was finished with.
brentenman,
I agree on the Saturday Night Special, I would put a reverse excise tax schedule on firearms. As the Value and Quality of the weapon declined, the tax would increase. If the .25 semi auto starts cheap even in high quality brands.
An excise tax that rose as the value of the pistol dropped would instantly drive the Saturday night special off the market. Remember, I'm a liberal, and I will urge using virtually any government power to regulate markets. I thought of suggesting a "Federally mandated minimum price" for all handguns, say twenty five hundred dollars. But that is to liberal, even for me.
What I would propose is a Price level that makes the qualit of the weapon the determining factor. and the lower the quality the higher the tax. It could be based on the effective life of the weapon. Say the Colt wears out after 1500 rounds, and the Raven after 500 rounds. You set the tax at 1500 dollars, and reduce it by one dollar for each shot the weapon can fire in its effective life. TAX ON THE COLT ZERO. TAX ON THE RAVEN ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Tax on a Llama, 25 dollars. Tax on a Smith and Wesson, less than zero, but set at zero because you don't want to subsidize the sale of Smith and Wesson over Colt. Of course there is the problem of letting a colt fancier determine the life span of the pistol. And there is the problem of the arbitrary nature of the judgement of effective lifespan.
You could also accomplish the same result by using the wholesale price of the weapon. Tax 1500 dollars less 5 times the wholesale price of the weapon. 200 dollar wholesale = tax of 500 dollars 400 dollar wholesale = tax of zero dollars.
Retail price of the cheaper gun, 980 dollars, the higher quality gun, 560 dollars. (markup 40% of wholesale price including tax)
See Liberals can make plans, suggest implementing them and solve problems.




What about the single mother who can only scrape up a c-note to buy a Jennings J-22? Should she have to pay your horrendous tax just because she's not wealthy? Or the senior citizen who's on a fixed income, and who's neighborhood has deteriorated to the point that he's afraid for his and his infirmed wife's safety? Should they have to trade doing without food or heat for protection? I hope not. It is fundamentally WRONG to put an excessive tax on an item based on your dislike of it, especially as a method of controlling it. If there exists facts to warrant it, pass legislation to ban the thing, but don't pull a English taxation trait like we fought to defeat in the Revolutionary War.

And what's your definition of a "Saturday Night Special"? When shown a Raven Arms .22 and a Walther PPK/S, a politician I know couldn't tell me the difference, or which one was worth $400.00 and which was worth $40.00. Just becuause it's a small caliber (and for that matter, inexpensive) doesn't mean it's not reliable or trustworthy. My Kel-Tec .32 shoots every time, has never failed to feed or fire, but is the size of a pack of cigarettes and costs $225.00 new in box, tax and all. I've had two Jennings J-22's that would hit a cola can at 7 yards each and every shot. One had a poor magazine, which would jam on the last two rounds in the magazine, but the other shot flawlessly.

BTW, the lifespan of a weapon has a heck of a lot more to do with maintenance kept on it AFTER it's manufactured, and type and power of ammo, than the manufacturing process. I had a Smith revolver a few years back that I shot a documented 30,000 rounds through it in three years. Had a H&R .22 that I shot a brick of .22's (500 rounds)a month through for over two years (12,000 rounds).
I guess you didn't read the whole post. At no time in that statement did I recommend registration of firearms. I recommended an excise tax. There is already and excise tax on firearms. I did not recommend a tax of any kind on the transfer of gun ownership. I recommended a one time assessment against the device or product before it is sold. You pay such a tax on tires, and window glass. You pay the ATF a tax everytime you buy any ALCOHOL, TOBACCO OR FIREARM. Like it or not, the tax is there. It is part of the VALUE of your firearms even though it is assessed only once. So, to solve the problem of cheap, poor quality shootin' irons, TAX THE DEVIL OUT OF THE CHEAP, POOR QUALITY SHOOTIN' IRON BEFORE IT IS SOLD. But, engineer the tax so that the expensive, High Quality fire arm is NOT made more expensive.
Just an aside, it is Saturday night, and as I have been sitting here at the computer, I have heard more than ten gunshots in the distance. I live in a big city. Gunfire is far more common than I like. A couple of summers ago I had to replace three panes of window glass, and repair about 15 holes on both sides of the dry wall in my living room. I was not the subject of the gunfight, I was not even home.
Believe me, I don't want guns in the hands of MORONS, CHILDREN, ANGRY ADULTS, OR CRIMINALS.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
I guess you didn't read the whole post. At no time in that statement did I recommend registration of firearms. I recommended an excise tax. There is already and excise tax on firearms. I did not recommend a tax of any kind on the transfer of gun ownership. I recommended a one time assessment against the device or product before it is sold. You pay such a tax on tires, and window glass. You pay the ATF a tax everytime you buy any ALCOHOL, TOBACCO OR FIREARM. Like it or not, the tax is there. It is part of the VALUE of your firearms even though it is assessed only once. So, to solve the problem of cheap, poor quality shootin' irons, TAX THE DEVIL OUT OF THE CHEAP, POOR QUALITY SHOOTIN' IRON BEFORE IT IS SOLD. But, engineer the tax so that the expensive, High Quality fire arm is NOT made more expensive.


I say again: Registration leads to taxation which leads to confiscation and gun bans.

I do not believe in "taxing them out of existance" either. Chuckie Schumer and his gun grabber buddies of the likes of Diane "if I had my way, Mr. and Mrs. America, would turn them all in" Finestein, Barbara Boxer, Uncle Teddy, etc. along with the Brady Bunch over at Handgun Control, INC. suggested the SAME tax plan you are suggesting. Sounds as if you have been drinking too much of their gun-banning Kool Aid over on their website.

And, as a reminder: those who voted for the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, pushed by one William Jefferson Blythe Klinton, paid the price at the voter booth that NOV 1994...."a temper tantrum" one late Peter Jennings of ABC News called it....booted from office. Diane Finestein shrilly screamed in 2004 when the AWB was not renewed "the streets will be flooded with AK's..." Well, my nets were cast right after the sunset on 13 SEP 2004, and I have yet to have caught an AK in my nets.....
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Just an aside, it is Saturday night, and as I have been sitting here at the computer, I have heard more than ten gunshots in the distance. I live in a big city. Gunfire is far more common than I like. A couple of summers ago I had to replace three panes of window glass, and repair about 15 holes on both sides of the dry wall in my living room. I was not the subject of the gunfight, I was not even home.
Believe me, I don't want guns in the hands of MORONS, CHILDREN, ANGRY ADULTS, OR CRIMINALS.


What city do you live in?
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
I guess you didn't read the whole post. At no time in that statement did I recommend registration of firearms. I recommended an excise tax. There is already and excise tax on firearms. I did not recommend a tax of any kind on the transfer of gun ownership. I recommended a one time assessment against the device or product before it is sold. You pay such a tax on tires, and window glass. You pay the ATF a tax everytime you buy any ALCOHOL, TOBACCO OR FIREARM. Like it or not, the tax is there. It is part of the VALUE of your firearms even though it is assessed only once. So, to solve the problem of cheap, poor quality shootin' irons, TAX THE DEVIL OUT OF THE CHEAP, POOR QUALITY SHOOTIN' IRON BEFORE IT IS SOLD. But, engineer the tax so that the expensive, High Quality fire arm is NOT made more expensive.


I guess you didn't read mine either. I NEVER mentioned registration. I mentioned your proposed exorbitant and totally unreasonable tax. Yes, I know there is an excise tax on guns. No, it's not 200, or 500, or 1000 percent of the value of the gun, as is the one you propose. And I stand by my comment about English taxation (Boston Tea Party) and the Revolutionary War.

My comment was to point out that there are people out there who have a valid need for a firearm that could not afford one if such a unreasonable tax was placed on them.

Are you aware that the mere presence of a firearm is a deterrent to prevent violence in many instances? For every documented self defense shooting, there's probably a hundred cases where the sight of a weapon in the hands of a determined person caused the bad guy to change his mind and go elsewhere.

Are you aware that one of the best minds in self defense, the director of Lethal Force Institute, and a law enforcement officer of many years service, Masaad Ayoob, has publically said and published in his books and magazine articles that the first rule of gunfighting is "HAVE A GUN". You have to get to the second rule before you hear to "have enough gun". Not "have a $1,000 gun", not "have a $500 gun", but "HAVE A GUN"...any gun.

And yet, you want to prevent people less fortunate from being able to protect themselves? By placing an exorbitant tax on the product that would allow them the right of self protection? We fought a war with the British over this in 1776...
Are you now saying that the government should subsidize gun ownership by single mothers, by allowing cheap guns to flood the market? Is it your considered opinion that the Right to bear arms includes the RIGHT TO BUY CHEAP GUNS?
Exactly what Liberal position are you taking on this issue? Do you favor government provided firearms for all Americans. There is an interesting concept. In the least crime ridden nation on earth, with the LONGEST HISTORY OF PEACE in all of Europe, that is exactly what the government does. NOT JUST FIRE ARMS, BUT FULLY AUTO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HUNDREDS OF ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION. Some of the residents of this country are actually in possession of HOWITZERS, and others have access to Heavy Armor. This insanly out of place, peaceful, respected nation has such a GREAT reputation that they provide, from their military establishment, more than half the armed guards at the Pope's Home Town, Vatican City.
This nation trains EVERY able bodied high school boy in the use and maintainance of small arms. The discipline of the Armed Forces and upon successful completion of the training, send him home with an assault rifle.
This country is CALLED SWITZERLAND.
Sassy Kims,
I did read your post. Oh I read it more than once.

I THOUGHT, FROM WHAT YOU SAID, THAT MY PROPOSAL TO PUT GUNS OUT OF THE REACH OF THUGS, was not in the best interest of single mothers who would also be denied access to cheap guns.
I stand by the proposal to tax rather than outlaw cheap guns.
I stand by the proposal that it is not the business of government to subsidize guns for the less fortunate.
I stand by the proposal that the government should not mandate gun ownership
I stand by the proposal that the government should not outlaw gun ownership.
I stand by the proposal that if the government mandates gun ownership, criminals would be required to own guns.
I stand by the proposal that government has a vested interest in regulating ownership of certain types of firearms.
I stand by the proposal that gun control as opposed to gun elimination is the only legitimate option.

ARE WE CLEAR NOW?
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Just an aside, it is Saturday night, and as I have been sitting here at the computer, I have heard more than ten gunshots in the distance. I live in a big city. Gunfire is far more common than I like. A couple of summers ago I had to replace three panes of window glass, and repair about 15 holes on both sides of the dry wall in my living room. I was not the subject of the gunfight, I was not even home.
Believe me, I don't want guns in the hands of MORONS, CHILDREN, ANGRY ADULTS, OR CRIMINALS.


What city do you live in?

I don't live in Baghdad though there is a city by that name within about 90 miles. It is in Skull Valley, and on my last visit was quite peaceful.
At the VERY REAL RISK OF BEING CALLED A CARPETBAGGER, (cause I r 1) I live in a town called Moon Valley. (really) it is a suburb of Phoenix, and I have lived here for over 35 years. And yes, there was gunfire within earshot tonight, and there is ALWAYS gunfire within earshot on Saturday night and frequently on other nights. Sonny Barger, famed Hell's Angel, resides a few miles upstream from here. But the Creek is dry, well usually dry.
The sound of shooting has changed since I moved in, at first it was Sunday morning target practice but as the population increased, the target practice turned into drive by's and running gun battles.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Sassy Kims,
I did read your post. Oh I read it more than once.

I THOUGHT, FROM WHAT YOU SAID, THAT MY PROPOSAL TO PUT GUNS OUT OF THE REACH OF THUGS, was not in the best interest of single mothers who would also be denied access to cheap guns.
I stand by the proposal to tax rather than outlaw cheap guns.
I stand by the proposal that it is not the business of government to subsidize guns for the less fortunate.
I stand by the proposal that the government should not mandate gun ownership
I stand by the proposal that the government should not outlaw gun ownership.
I stand by the proposal that if the government mandates gun ownership, criminals would be required to own guns.
I stand by the proposal that government has a vested interest in regulating ownership of certain types of firearms.
I stand by the proposal that gun control as opposed to gun elimination is the only legitimate option.

ARE WE CLEAR NOW?


What's clear is that I do not, and won't ever agree with you proposals. They are asinine and not well considered.

It's not in the best interest of the lawful, yet financially less able, citizens to establish such tax.

I'm glad I would have a chance to campaign and vote against your proposal...which I feel that any law abiding citizen would see as just another method of beginning to outlaw and ban guns by exorbitant taxation.

Thank you for saying that the government should not mandate gun ownership...they're not for everybody. Not everybody should have a legal right to own them (felons, drug addicts, drunkards, etc.)

Thank you for saying that the government should not outlaw gun ownership...I heartily agree.

NO elected official who ever wants reelected would be so silly as to propose a law that requires convicted felons to own a firearm. It ain't gonna happen. It would be political suicide.

The Government has no business telling me or any other law abiding citizen what type of gun we can own...they've already proven that they can't differentiate between an expensive, well made gun and a paper weight piece of junk. Besides, if a bad guy is coming after me, I'd much rather he be armed with one that's likely to misfire than a high quality, work every time one.

Gun control in all it's forms is only a means to try to eventually prohibit guns completely. The US public won't stand for it.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Recently a gun promoter wrote an op-ed in the New York Times promoting mandatory ownership of gun laws. Yes, that's right, "Instapundit" Glenn Reynolds lauded such crazed, unenforceable legislation: "to the extent that they actually make a difference," he wrote, "it is likely to be positive one." http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/FSA/signUp.jsp?key=1934


I'd like to see the author's documentation to his assertion that 'more guns equal more crime', et al...
quote:


Bad guys don't work that way. Bad guys intent on burglary don't bring weapons...they pick one up at the house. All of them have learned that it's an enhancement to the penalty if caught if they're armed during the burglary.


Screwdriver, crowbar, butcher knife OR gun....it's STILL 'aggravated burglary'...even if he 'acquired' the 'weapon' after gaining entry.
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:


Bad guys don't work that way. Bad guys intent on burglary don't bring weapons...they pick one up at the house. All of them have learned that it's an enhancement to the penalty if caught if they're armed during the burglary.


Screwdriver, crowbar, butcher knife OR gun....it's STILL 'aggravated burglary'...even if he 'acquired' the 'weapon' after gaining entry.


Not the way it works in Alabama. Here's the code:

Section 13A-7-6
Burglary in the second degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if he or she knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit theft or a felony therein and, if in effecting entry or while in the building or in immediate flight therefrom, the person or another participant in the crime:

(1) Is armed with explosives; or

(2) Causes physical injury to any person who is not a participant in the crime; or

(3) In effecting entry, is armed with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument or, while in the building or in immediate flight from the building, uses or threatens the immediate use of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument against another person. The use of or threatened use of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument does not include the mere acquisition of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument during the burglary.

(b) In the alternative to subsection (a) of this section, a person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if he or she unlawfully enters a lawfully occupied dwelling-house with intent to commit a theft or a felony therein.


It's only Burglary 2nd with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument he/she obtained after breaking in if he/she uses or threatens to use of it. Mere possession of said DW or DI stolen from the residence does not meet the enhancement requirement. Go figure....Alabama's legislature is the greatest there is to pass a feel good law, then pull it's teeth.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
[QUOTE]

Bad guys don't work that way. Bad guys intent on burglary don't bring weapons...they pick one up at the house. All of them have learned that it's an enhancement to the penalty if caught if they're armed during the burglary.


Screwdriver, crowbar, butcher knife OR gun....it's STILL 'aggravated burglary'...even if he 'acquired' the 'weapon' after gaining entry.


I'll be hogwashed, how do I get to Alabama your ARMED ROBBERS ARE SO STUPID THEY EXPECT THE STORE KEEPER TO PROVDE THE GUN...Dopy as the man who pulled a ball point pen on me and demanded the cash in the register. HE PULLED THEPEN OUT OF A DISPLAY ON THE COUNTER.
Got no money, got a dislocated thumb, and got me fired for resisting an armed robber. and got away.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:


I'll be hogwashed, how do I get to Alabama your ARMED ROBBERS ARE SO STUPID THEY EXPECT THE STORE KEEPER TO PROVDE THE GUN...Dopy as the man who pulled a ball point pen on me and demanded the cash in the register. HE PULLED THEPEN OUT OF A DISPLAY ON THE COUNTER.
Got no money, got a dislocated thumb, and got me fired for resisting an armed robber. and got away.


In Alabama, "robbery" is not the same as "burglary". Robbery is the taking of property from the person or immediate care of an individual by force or threat of force. Burlary is a criminal intrusion on property, with various degrees determined by several factors.

Most burglars I've dealt with don't bring an offensive weapon to the burglary. In Alabama, if they bring it with them, it is an enhancement to the penalty. If they pick it up at the burglary, and DONT threaten or harm someone with it, no enhancement.

I had one tell me that he always went straight to the kitchen after making entry and picked out a steak knife, and kept it with him during the burglary. He used it as a prying and cutting tool during the burglary. If he wasn't confronted, he would just replace the knife on his way out. That way, he didn't get pegged with the higher level conviction.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×