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RE: http://www.timesdaily.com/arti...510/ARTICLES/5105000

Hi to my Forum Friends,

While I realize that the TimesDaily is no longer under the banner of the liberal New York Times; they still seem to find space to print columns from Christian bashing Liberals. And, the article below is a perfect example of a "Liberal at heart" who will, when convenient, don her "Conservative shawl" while throwing Liberal rotten eggs at Christians.

This lady cannot seem to decide which side of the aisle best fits her. In an article by Charles Krauthammer, dated Oct 22, 2008, we read: Kathleen Parker Endorses Barack Obama

Then, in her column, on Feb 9, 2009, she writes: Many suspected Obama wasn't ready for the presidency. They may have been right.

And, on Feb 11, 2009, Kathleen Parker writes: Obama the amateur, The first however-many days of Barack Obama's presidency have been a study in amateurism.

Does this lady have trouble deciding which, what, or who to like or dislike? Obviously, from the tone of her article below, she does not like Christian believers. Or maybe she just sees us a good fodder to fill her syndicated columns from time to time.

My Friend, when we read such articles, we must do so with our Liberal filters in place and realize that the writer is working hard to be controversial -- to sell more columns.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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MAPQUESTING GOD FOR DIFFERENT ROUTES
By Kathleen Parker, TimesDaily News/Opinion, Monday, May 10, 2010
http://www.timesdaily.com/arti...for-different-routes

Commentary: Centuries of blood have been shed for the sake of religious certitude.

WASHINGTON - As thousands prayed across the nation Thursday in celebration of National Day of Prayer, the Rev. Franklin Graham held his own vigil in the Pentagon parking lot. Oh well, it doesn't matter where one prays, right? All prayers lead to heaven. Or do they? Not if you're Graham, who lost his place at the Pentagon altar after he mocked other religions, specifically Muslims and Hindus. A plea to President Obama to reinstate him apparently fell on pitiless ears.

Bill's Comment: Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., can not only mock Christians -- but, can declare open warfare against them. How often, today and in recent years, have we heard of reports from those countries which are predominately Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. -- of Christian families, homes, villages attacked and destroyed by the followers of these world religions? And, no one, not even the supposed protector of world peace, the United Nations, even raises their voices or their hands to stop this hatred and killing.

Yet, let a Christian, especially a well known pastor or evangelist, publicly state the Islam and these other world religions are religions of hatred and evil -- and all the Liberals from around the world have heart palpitations. And, the hanky waving, smelling salts sniffing Liberals are worse in, of all places, Christian America.


Graham's offense was expressing his belief that only Christians have God's ear, that Islam is evil, and that Muslims and Hindus don't pray to the same God he does.

"No elephant with 100 arms can do anything for me," Graham said in a USA Today interview, referring to one of the five main Hindu deities. "None of their 9,000 gods is going to lead me to salvation. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can have some big kumbaya service and all hold hands and it's all going to get better in this world. It's not going to get better."

It's not? If the whole world prays for a common good, will no good come of it? If so, then what's the point of a National Day of Prayer? Oh ye of little faith.

Bill's Comment: Kathleen, if folks pray to a rock, or to a goat, or a frog, an elephant -- or to any other false god or gods -- it is much like the analogy of a tree falling in the forest -- who hears it? If I walk into a crowded room and you are one of a hundred people there; will you pay attention if I stop and talk with a person across the room? No. Why? Because it is obvious that I am not talking to you.

The same is true when those trapped in world religions pray. They are praying to their gods; be it goats, cows, frogs, or Allah. They are not praying to God, the preexisting, eternal God who created the heavens and the earth. So, since they are not praying to Him; why should He bother listening?

The National Day Of Prayer is a day in which Christians gather in groups small and large -- to pray to the one God, the God of the Bible. You really should get to know Him some day. You will be eternally happy if you do.


Perhaps Graham was feeling cross after his rejection. As honorary chairman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force, a private evangelical group, Graham was to have led a prayer for the U.S. military. His son is on a fourth tour in Afghanistan.

But Graham's views didn't sit well with secular Americans or even non-evangelical Christians, who protested that the government is endorsing a certain flavor of Christianity. A Wisconsin court apparently agreed and ruled the day unconstitutional, appeals pending.

Bill's Comment: Kathleen, do you hold seances with Richard Dawkins to determine which hat to wear each day? You are like all atheist and secularist who lump all who can spell Christian -- into one group. There are many people and churches who wear the Christian hat; but, they forgot to be fitted for it by the Divine Tailor. Yet, you attempt to mix all the cult churches who wear Christ's name for the sake of some identity -- into the same cake mix as true Christians. Obviously you spent more time learning grammar than cooking; for their are many ingredients which can and do, spoil the cake.

You take a broad brush stroke at Christianity by saying "or even non-evangelical Christians." In that cake mix, I am sure you have added a couple of teaspoons of Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies, Unitarian Universalists, and others who mention Jesus -- but, follow a different Jesus than the Jesus Christ of the Bible. The way you mix your cake ingredients, I am sure I would not want to try your finished cake.


Graham isn't alone in his views. A survey of 1,000 Protestant pastors, conducted by an evangelical polling firm, found that 47 percent agree that Islam is "a very evil and a very wicked religion." But such opinions may be confined mostly to an older generation. Evangelicals under 30 believe that there are many ways to God, not just through Jesus.

David Campbell, a professor at Notre Dame and co-author of "American Grace: How Religion Is Reshaping Our Civic and Political Lives" (with Harvard's Bob Putnam) conducted surveys showing that nearly two-thirds of evangelicals under 35 believe non-Christians can go to heaven, versus 39 percent of those over 65.

Bill's Comment: Let me see, you quote a poll, taken by an unnamed polling firm. Is that good journalism? Or, was it just a more convenient fit for your attack on Christians?

Then, you tell us that a professor at Notre Dame (professor of what -- Global Warming?) and a writer from super liberal Harvard -- have conducted a survey. Wow! I bet that really reflects the real Christian people of America. Have you ever watched Jay Leno when he does his show segment called "Jay Walking"?

If not, Jay Leno goes on the street in Southern California and does a survey. He will stop people and ask questions such as: Who was the first president of the United States? In which war did he fight? Even questions such as: How many states are there? And, I, as an American, am blown away when 8 out of 10 people on the street cannot answer these questions.

When you tell us about "your survey" -- I get the feeling there has been more "Jay Walking."


When it comes to whose prayers carry more weight in the heavenly realm, well, who really knows? But new brain research supports the likelihood that one man's prayer is as good as any other's.

Bill's Comment: When you tell us that "one man's prayer is as good as any other's" -- I have to ask how you determine the criteria for the effectiveness of prayer. If a person is praying just to make a resounding noise in his own head; it is true that it does not matter if he is praying to a tree, a goat, a cow, an elephant, or to Allah, Buddha, etc.

However, to see prayers truly answered; to see truly life changing results from prayers -- only those directed to God by believers will have any true effect. One can pray to a rock, asking for rain or for healing, until he is blue in the face -- and it may or may not rain. However, I have personally seen many specific prayers answered where the only answer could be God.

Yet, for a non-believer, the only prayer that God will hear is: "Lord, I am a sinner. I turn from my worldly lifestyle, my sinful lifestyle -- and turn to follow You. Be my Lord and Savior from this day forth."

If and when a person sincerely prays such a prayer -- he is a believer and all the rest of his prayers go straight to the throne of God. If a person is a non-believer, and is mired in any of the many world religions -- his prayers go only to that rock, tree, frog, cow, etc.


Barbara Bradley Hagerty, the award-winning NPR religion reporter, participated in a peyote ceremony in Arizona, meditated while wearing a brain scanner at the University of Wisconsin, and donned a "God helmet" in a neuroscientist's lab in Canada in her quest to discover the secrets of prayer and, possibly, proof of God.

Bill's Comment: You have already lost all credibility when you say "NPR Religion Reporter" -- National Public Radio and Religion in the same breath is the highest form of oxymoron; unless, of course, you are speaking only of world religions. The only Christians you will find on NPR reports are those in the Far Left Liberal Theology churches or the cult churches such as the Unitarian Universalists, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Rev. Moon's Unification church.

In her book, "Fingerprints of God," Hagerty tries to answer a question that has plagued her for years: Is there more than this? She couldn't accept mainstream science's answer that we are "a collection of molecules with no greater purpose than to eke out a few decades."

Instead, she sought out spiritual virtuosos (people who practice prayer, religiously), as well as neurologists, geneticists, physicists and medical researchers who are using the newest tools of science to discern the circumstantial evidence of God.

Bill's Comment: What is a "spiritual virtuoso"? Is this a person, who in your opinion, is wasting his time talking with God when he could better spend his time talking with a rock, tree, or elephant? You say "people who practice prayer, religiously." While I have been a praying Christian for more that 22 years; I have never thought of it as "practicing prayer."

No, my dear lady, let me try to explain to you about prayer. Prayer is speaking with your very Best Friend. When you converse with your spouse, your girl friend, or any other friend -- do you have to "practice" first? When I talk with my wife, it is just a natural thing to do. When I talk with my God, it is an even more natural thing to do.

Possibly, this is why you are so confused about prayer, about Franklin Graham's prayers, and about the National Day of Prayer -- you have no idea what a prayer is -- or how to do it. Kathleen, just talk to God as you would anyone else you love and respect.


Her research led to some startling conclusions that have caused no small amount of Sturm und Drang among those who believe theirs is the one true way. She found that whether one is a Sikh, a Catholic nun, a Buddhist monk, or a Sufi Muslim, the brain reacts to focused prayer and meditation much in the same way. The same parts light up and the same parts go dark during deep meditation.

Bill's Comment: By "Sturm und Drang" I presume you mean "storm and stress" and not the 18th century German literary movement. Yes, I am sure that during prayer, as well as with any other activity, when one is connected with a machine to measure neurological responses, there will be brain activity caused by these activities.

However, you are measuring man's response to his own activity -- not God's response to prayer.

If you were to take equipment to measure neurological reactions to a Nascar race and connect some to spectators and some to the drivers; would you expect to find the same response measurements? Of course not. The spectators are responding only to their senses of excitement from watching the race.

However, the driver strapped into a high performance race car driving at 200 mph among 30 other such cars -- will most certainly have a different response. Why? Because the driver is reacting to his own excitement as well as to the response of this powerful machine he is riding.

By the same token, people in the world religions praying to their gods, are reacting to their own emotions and feelings.

While the Christian believer who is praying to God -- is reacting to his own personal feelings and emotions -- as well as interacting with the Living God. My Friend, there is a tremendous difference.


Apparently, we have a "God spot" and "God genes." And though some are more generously endowed than others, spiritual experience is a human phenomenon, not a religious one. Different routes to the same destination.

Bill's Comment: When you write: "Apparently, we have a 'God spot'" -- you have actually touched on a real truth without realizing it. While you appear to be making an attempt to be facetious; this is the truth. You see, when God created each of us, including you, He did include a "God Spot" or a hole within us which can only be filled by God. No square pegs (world religions) in the round holes (Christian).

This is why we can read about missionaries over the last one hundred years traveling to remote islands or lands -- and finding native people who were, from their own native legends, expecting the "people of the book." A wonderful book which tells of these encounters is "Eternity In Their Hearts" by Don Richardson and published by Regal Books.

Also, you can read about this phenomenon in Romans 2:14-15.


Understandably, these are not glad tidings to some. Centuries of blood have been shed for the sake of religious certitude. But transcending the notion that only some prayers are the right ones might get us closer to the enlightenment we purportedly seek.

Bill's Comment: While it is obvious that the only enlightenment you are seeking is a worldly enlightenment; you also have pulled out the old worn and frazzled atheist/secularist trump card -- "Centuries of blood have been shed for the sake of religious certitude."

Yes, it is true that in earlier centuries the Roman Catholic church did instigate the Crusades and the Inquisition. The Crusades to drive out the Muslims and the Inquisition against a group the church felt were Christian heretics. Yes, these events were wrong -- but, they occurred in the Middle Ages and were, for the most part, private wars of corrupt popes and church leaders.

However, while those occurred many centuries ago -- there are many inquisitions against Christian believers happening today. They are happening in Muslim nations, in Hindu nations, in Buddhist nations -- and in secular nations such as China. So, if you want to talk about bloodshed -- let's talk about Christian blood and let's talk about today's events; not something which happened 600 years ago.


Hagerty is optimistic that science eventually will demonstrate that we are more than mere matter. In the meantime, it would seem imminently rational to presume in our public affairs that God does not play political favorites with his creation.

Bill's Comment: God has a plan for all of His creation -- and, yes, He will play favorites. God's plans and His thinking are far above that of man. But, He has one plan. That plan is: from the chaos and turmoil of this world, He will one day destroy this world and He will create a New Heaven, a New Earth, and a New Jerusalem. And, the inhabitants will be those who, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- and only Jesus Christ -- believe and receive His "free gift" of salvation. God's plan is to spend eternity with these believers.

Sorry, Kathleen, but there is one other eternal destination. This is where all non-believers will spend eternity -- and, it will not be a pleasant place to live for eternity.


Kathleen Parker can be reached at kparker@kparker.com

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Parker's article rests on the thesis that since certain self-induced and measurable brain activity is the same whether the brain is engaged in prayer or meditation relative to Buddha, Vishnu, a tree stump, or the God of the Bible, it therefore follows that there is spriritual parity and religious equality among all who, in prayer or meditation, generate the same indicia of brain activity.

I do not dispute the data generated in the laboratory where these human brain waves, pulses, or whatever were measured. Those data are empirical. But the second prong of Parker's thesis is anything but empirical. It is frought with pure and unproven speculation. Parker offers nothing to support the notion that there is religious parity among those religiously diverse praying and meditating subjects. Such parity, in the final analysis, depends not on Man who is praying or meditating, but upon God (or gods, in the case of Hindus and other polytheists), to whom such prayers are addressed and upon whom such meditiations are focused.

Parker has no way to demonstrate whether the prayers of diverse religionists are deemed of an equality by God (or gods,etc,) and failing in that, all she really has to report is that whatever the objects of one's devotion, it is possible to generate brain activity similar to that of others who attach to different objects of devotion. That is the true end of her story, but she just could not bear to stop there, since she saw an irresistible opportunity to take a huge--and illogical--leap from there to promote her radically hyper-ecumenical world view.
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Graham isn't alone in his views. A survey of 1,000 Protestant pastors, conducted by an evangelical polling firm, found that 47 percent agree that Islam is "a very evil and a very wicked religion." But such opinions may be confined mostly to an older generation. Evangelicals under 30 believe that there are many ways to God, not just through Jesus.


Bill these Evangelicals under 30 are wrong, Jesus said John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. you can't even pray directly to God, Jesus is a Mediator between you and God that is the reason we pray in Jesus's name,

Rom 8:34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

(Intercession) A prayer to God on behalf of another person.
Last edited by prince albert
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
quote:
Graham isn't alone in his views. A survey of 1,000 Protestant pastors, conducted by an evangelical polling firm, found that 47 percent agree that Islam is "a very evil and a very wicked religion." But such opinions may be confined mostly to an older generation. Evangelicals under 30 believe that there are many ways to God, not just through Jesus.

Bill these Evangelicals under 30 are wrong, Jesus said John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me. you can't even pray directly to God, Jesus is a Mediator between you and God that is the reason we pray in Jesus's name,

Rom 8:34 who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

(Intercession) A prayer to God on behalf of another person.

Hi Albert,

I strongly suspect it is the "poll takers" who are wrong. If I am taking a poll -- I can slant it anyway I want. First, in the questions I ask -- and, second, in the location where I take my poll.

If I were to go to West Hollywood or San Francisco -- and take a poll asking if the homosexual lifestyle is normal; I can assure you that the answer, in those locations, would be YES.

However, if I visit Biola University or California Baptist University and ask the same questions -- the answer would be NO.

Polls are marketing tools for whoever is taking them.

You and I both know that true evangelical Christians, regardless of age, will not say there are many ways to God.

Yet, if we were to go to the cult churches who wear a Christian hat only to keep their heads warm -- you might get any answer.

The woman writing this column which the TimesDaily paid her to post -- wanted to make Christians look bad; hence her phony poll.

We just have to consider the source.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill, you say:

Bill's Comment: When you tell us that "one man's prayer is as good as any other's" -- I have to ask how you determine the criteria for the effectiveness of prayer. If a person is praying just to make a resounding noise in his own head; it is true that it does not matter if he is praying to a tree, a goat, a cow, an elephant, or to Allah, Buddha, etc.



In this you mentioned Allah. Now if the nation of islam uses the old testament and believe in jesus (but only as a prophet)how is it a DIFFERENT god? Take into account that allah is the arabic word for god and that arabic is the modern aramaic. aramaic was the language of Jesus, and when he said the word god he said alah (which in present form would of course be allah). So if jesus says allah is his father, how can you say that allah is a different god than you worship?????
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
oh wait, i forgot. you DO worship a different god than i do. I worship a god of love, you worship a god of hate.

Well, TCF,

If you want to worship Allah, be my guest. But, for me, I will stick with God, the God of the Bible, the God of Israel, i.e., Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

But, you can hold hands with Mohammed if you like; for me -- it is Jesus Christ.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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When you say you are a follower of jesus christ, you are a liar. Jesus was a teacher of peace, love and tolerance. You are a follower of hatred. Before you disagree, here is a short list of things that you have stated hatred for over the past few years:

islam
buddhism
hinduism
catholics
any protestant church which doesnt agree 100% with you
abortionists
scientists
liberals
gays
blacks
women
barack obama
democrats
etc, etc, etc
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
allah WAS the god of abraham.isaac and jacob. in fact THEY called their god allah! thats my point.


tcf531, you yourself acknowledged above that Muslims regard Jesus as only a prophet and thus not as divine.

The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is one with God, that He was the "Word" in the "Beginning with God" and that in Him "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Jesus said that, "I and the Father are one."

Those Biblical descriptions of Jesus' divinity are accepted by probably 99 percent of Christians. They are rejected by the teachings of Islam that relegate Jesus to the status of a prophet on a plane of equality with other human prophets. Play the "alah" or "Allah" name game if you will, but that crabbed and narrow approach sheds no light whatsoever on the very real differences in the Christian and Islamic concepts of the nature and identity of God.
the nature of god:

What follows is a typical definition of "God," which, perhaps with some adjustments, would be acceptable to many within the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim faiths:

God is an eternally existent being that exists apart from space and time. God is the creator of the universe; and is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving.
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
the nature of god:

What follows is a typical definition of "God," which, perhaps with some adjustments, would be acceptable to many within the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim faiths:

God is an eternally existent being that exists apart from space and time. God is the creator of the universe; and is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving.


Those "adjustments" would not be minor, as you should know from reading my first post in this string--to which you have yet to reply with any relevance or substance. A "typical definition of God" just doesn't cut it, tc!
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
allah WAS the god of abraham.isaac and jacob. in fact THEY called their god allah! thats my point.

Hi TCF,

I just did a word search of about 12 different Bible translations including the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, and others.

Not one contained the word Allah. Isn't that strange since you say that the God of the Bible is Allah?

Sorry, my Friend, you will have to go the Qur'an to find Allah.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Allah الله (pronounced: Allaah), is traditionally used by Muslims as the Arabic name of God. The word Allah is not specific to Islam; Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews, and the Catholic Maltese, also use it to refer to the monotheist deity; for example in Arabic translations of the Bible.

Although the name "Allah" is most commonly associated with Islam, it was also used in pre-Islamic times. It was used by Arab Christians in the pre-Islamic Umm al-Jimal inscription (6th century). The father of Muhammad, Islam's prophet, had the name "Abdullah", which translates "slave of Allah." The Hebrew word for deity, El (אל) or Eloh (אלוה), was used as an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh (יהוה). The Aramaic word for God is alôh-ô (Syriac dialect), which comes from the same Proto-Semitic word (*'ilâh-) as the Arabic and Hebrew terms; Jesus is described in Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46 as having used this word on the cross (in the forms elô-i and êl-i respectively). One of the earliest surviving translations of the word into a foreign language is in a Greek translation of the Shahada, from 86-96 AH (705-715 AD), which translates it as ho theos monos,literally the one god.

link:http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Allah
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
on a side note, betternu, i expect ignorance, intolerance and racism from bill, but i thought you were better than that.


On an up-front note, tcf, I expected from you some kind of substantive analytical response, not just an ad hominem insult. Let me post again what you were irrelevantly referring to and suggest that you study it a bit more and see what you can do to rebut it. Coming at you again:


"tcf531, you yourself acknowledged above that Muslims regard Jesus as only a prophet and thus not as divine.

The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is one with God, that He was the "Word" in the "Beginning with God" and that in Him "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Jesus said that, "I and the Father are one."

Those Biblical descriptions of Jesus' divinity are accepted by probably 99 percent of Christians. They are rejected by the teachings of Islam that relegate Jesus to the status of a prophet on a plane of equality with other human prophets. Play the "alah" or "Allah" name game if you will, but that crabbed and narrow approach sheds no light whatsoever on the very real differences in the Christian and Islamic concepts of the nature and identity of God."

Kindly point out what you consider "ignorance, intolerance, and racism" in the above, tcf. I have a hard time finding any of that in what I posted. Perhaps, from your supposedly enlightened and eclectic view of things, you could help me find that alleged "ignorance, intolerance, and racism."
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
Allah الله (pronounced: Allaah), is traditionally used by Muslims as the Arabic name of God. The word Allah is not specific to Islam; Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews, and the Catholic Maltese, also use it to refer to the monotheist deity; for example in Arabic translations of the Bible.

Although the name "Allah" is most commonly associated with Islam, it was also used in pre-Islamic times. It was used by Arab Christians in the pre-Islamic Umm al-Jimal inscription (6th century). The father of Muhammad, Islam's prophet, had the name "Abdullah", which translates "slave of Allah." The Hebrew word for deity, El (אל) or Eloh (אלוה), was used as an Old Testament synonym for Yahweh (יהוה). The Aramaic word for God is alôh-ô (Syriac dialect), which comes from the same Proto-Semitic word (*'ilâh-) as the Arabic and Hebrew terms; Jesus is described in Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46 as having used this word on the cross (in the forms elô-i and êl-i respectively). One of the earliest surviving translations of the word into a foreign language is in a Greek translation of the Shahada, from 86-96 AH (705-715 AD), which translates it as ho theos monos,literally the one god.

link:http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Allah


Etymology doth not a theology make!
Last edited by beternU
there are 3 major differences between christianity and islam.
The first is in the way they relate themselves to god. Muslims believe (as judaism does) that god is stern and metes out punishment to sinners. a strict disiplinarian who demands total obedience and commitment.
The christian relationship is more personal. god holds a person personally responsible for his own soul, and when they commit sin has the chance to ask for forgivness.

the 2nd difference is how the word of god is revealed. In christianity it is revealed through the jewish bible and the new testament.
In islam the word of god comes from the jewish bible and the quran. They believe that jesus was a great prophet but, sfter his ascension into heaven, the apostles corrupted his word.

an observation: the new testament has been retranslated several times in different languages and with different interpretations while the quran is still the exact same today as it was when mohammeds uncle wrote down what mohammed prophesized.

the third major difference is the afterlife. In islamic paradise your life is the same as here on earth except there will be no filth, ill will, bother etc. and all your delights will be intensified.
in christianity your soul is purified by your love of god and you spend eternity worshipping him.

some similarities:

both worship the hebrew god, both believe in miracles AND that jesus performed miracles, both believe that god is omnipotent, both believe that god created the world and that jesus will return and defeat satan, both believe man communicates with god thriugh prayer, and mahy mahy more similarities.
Last edited by tcf531
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

Kindly point out what you consider "ignorance, intolerance, and racism" in the above, tcf. I have a hard time finding any of that in what I posted. Perhaps, from your supposedly enlightened and eclectic view of things, you could help me find that alleged "ignorance, intolerance, and racism."


i was referring to the attitude of "those people believe different than i do, so they have to be wrong". that view automatically becomes ignorant, intolerant and racist
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
i was referring to the attitude of "those people believe different than i do, so they have to be wrong". that view automatically becomes ignorant, intolerant and racist

Hi TCF,

No one should declare that they are always right. However, anyone who is a Christ Follower, a Christian believer, should be able to declare that the Bible, the Written Word of God -- IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

Anyone following his own intellect -- often is following a fool.

However, anyone following the Word of God -- is on the right path.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

Kindly point out what you consider "ignorance, intolerance, and racism" in the above, tcf. I have a hard time finding any of that in what I posted. Perhaps, from your supposedly enlightened and eclectic view of things, you could help me find that alleged "ignorance, intolerance, and racism."


i was referring to the attitude of "those people believe different than i do, so they have to be wrong". that view automatically becomes ignorant, intolerant and racist


If you received that impression from what I posted, then your information receptors need an overhaul. I merely pointed out differences between the God of the Bible and the Islamic concept of Allah. I said nothing at all about anyone being right or wrong.

You have shown nothing to confirm your accusation of ignorance, intolerance or racism.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

Kindly point out what you consider "ignorance, intolerance, and racism" in the above, tcf. I have a hard time finding any of that in what I posted. Perhaps, from your supposedly enlightened and eclectic view of things, you could help me find that alleged "ignorance, intolerance, and racism."


i was referring to the attitude of "those people believe different than i do, so they have to be wrong". that view automatically becomes ignorant, intolerant and racist


If you received that impression from what I posted, then your information receptors need an overhaul. I merely pointed out differences between the God of the Bible and the Islamic concept of Allah. I said nothing at all about anyone being right or wrong.

You have shown nothing to confirm your accusation of ignorance, intolerance or racism.


i apologize if i misinterpreted your question. But,because I stated the simple fact that abraham, isaac and jacob refered to god as allah, you want an essay on the theologic differences of two religions.
looking back i realize that you may be trying to imply that the theological differences make the christian and islam gods seperate and distinct, but that is not the case since both worship the hebrew god.
also, there are theological differences between the baptist church and the church of christ, does this mean they worship different gods?
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:

Kindly point out what you consider "ignorance, intolerance, and racism" in the above, tcf. I have a hard time finding any of that in what I posted. Perhaps, from your supposedly enlightened and eclectic view of things, you could help me find that alleged "ignorance, intolerance, and racism."


i was referring to the attitude of "those people believe different than i do, so they have to be wrong". that view automatically becomes ignorant, intolerant and racist


If you received that impression from what I posted, then your information receptors need an overhaul. I merely pointed out differences between the God of the Bible and the Islamic concept of Allah. I said nothing at all about anyone being right or wrong.

You have shown nothing to confirm your accusation of ignorance, intolerance or racism.


i apologize if i misinterpreted your question. But,because I stated the simple fact that abraham, isaac and jacob refered to god as allah, you want an essay on the theologic differences of two religions.
looking back i realize that you may be trying to imply that the theological differences make the christian and islam gods seperate and distinct, but that is not the case since both worship the hebrew god.
also, there are theological differences between the baptist church and the church of christ, does this mean they worship different gods?


The God of the Bible--Old and New Testament--is not the same god that is worshipped by Islam. Islam does not recognize Jesus Christ as having been "in the beginning with God" (John 1: 2), i.e. as part of the Trinity. The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ was involved in the creation of the univwerse ("All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." --John 1:3). Islam has no doctrine corresponding to this characterizartion of the perpetuity and divinity of Jesus.

The central tenet of the Christian faith, that Jesus died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, is denied in the Koran:

"They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)..." (Quran, 4:157)

Islam teaches that Jesus was "no more than a Messenger, before whom many messengers have passed away." Straight from the Koran:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75.

Islam teaches that God has no son. Again, straight from the Koran:

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).

No tcf, there is no way one can reasonably equate the God of the Bible, the God of Christianity, with Islamic concepts of divinity.
Last edited by beternU

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