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Some folks act like concealed carry people are going to pull out their gun and start shooting with no regard to others.  That, in most cases, would be far from the truth.  Most folks that carry are very aware of the consequences.  Those 'rambo' types dont usually carry long because it becomes too much of a hassle.

 

The reason most people concealed carry is for their own personal protection.  Pure and simple.  What so many of you dont get is when you ban guns on campus, or when you ban guns in your employees vehicles, you pretty much take away their right to concealed carry at all.  Because most people work and have children.  Most people take their kids to school, go to work, pick the kids up, maybe run by the store on the way home.  If a gun is banned at work or on the school campus (READ PARKING LOT OR PICKUP AREA), you cant exactly leave it sitting on the ground in the street when you pull onto the campus or when you park at work, so you JUST DONT CARRY AT ALL.

 

The anti gun folks know this and they feed so many people the 'why do you need guns at work/school/etc' line, knowing the endgame is to disarm citizens by default. 

Originally Posted by Capt James T:

Some folks act like concealed carry people are going to pull out their gun and start shooting with no regard to others.  That, in most cases, would be far from the truth.  Most folks that carry are very aware of the consequences.  Those 'rambo' types dont usually carry long because it becomes too much of a hassle.

 

The reason most people concealed carry is for their own personal protection.  Pure and simple.  What so many of you dont get is when you ban guns on campus, or when you ban guns in your employees vehicles, you pretty much take away their right to concealed carry at all.  Because most people work and have children.  Most people take their kids to school, go to work, pick the kids up, maybe run by the store on the way home.  If a gun is banned at work or on the school campus (READ PARKING LOT OR PICKUP AREA), you cant exactly leave it sitting on the ground in the street when you pull onto the campus or when you park at work, so you JUST DONT CARRY AT ALL.

 

The anti gun folks know this and they feed so many people the 'why do you need guns at work/school/etc' line, knowing the endgame is to disarm citizens by default. 


I think there is a tendency for some who carry guns to assume that because others don't want guns in schools, churches, on playgrounds, or at sporting events that they are anti-gun.  I don't think that is necessarily true.  I don't think guns need to be banned, but I do think that there is a time and place to carry one, and in school just isn't one of those places.  You assume the endgame is always to disarm citizens, but that isn't true.  The endgame for many people is just to feel and be safe.  It really isn't always a plot to keep all guns away from all people.  Just as some are scared of not having their gun, some are scared of others having one.  It's just a different perspective and doesn't mean anyone is ignorant or necessarily trying to take anything from anyone.  My experience with guns is difference than someone else's might be, and that goes for us all.  If we can discuss it without some saying all gun carriers are "nuts" and other saying those who don't feel safe with them around certain places are sheeple and acting as if it is all a big power game, then we could accomplish some understanding.  

 

So it isn't all of either group that causes problems, but just trying to find a middle ground and not feeling defensive.  I don't want trained and legal gun owners to lose their guns, but I do want them to have to lock them safely and to not carry in church or school campuses.  I want them to have to qualify with a background check, and if you sell someone a gun I think you should have to know the person and get him checked out so another town isn't shattered by the occasional nut who gets upset and blows people away.  But if you are reasonable and don't think it's all a game of who wins and get a thrill out of intimidating people, then we can compromise and both get most of what we want.  Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
Originally Posted by frog:

So you are saying that even if weapons are forbidden on a school campus you will be still carrying one?  So you are fine with carrying guns where they aren't allowed?  Wonder if that would be okay with the school authorities?  So you feel it is okay to disregard what is allowed, yet you consider yourself a responsible gun owner?  Interesting.  Sounds more like a funny game of power from what you have posted.

Nothing to do with "power" Frog...just "self preservation".

And YES...even though you seem to be a weak -kneed LibTard...I would not hesitate to take out a "criminal NON cc carrier" on YOUR behalf...


Yes, because all the elementary kids are terrifying you?  And you resort again to insults when you know little about me.  And no thanks, I don't want you taking out anyone on my behalf.

NO, Frog...

It aint the Kids that "terrify" me...

It's the lunatics that can walk into a "No Guns Allowed" that have my attention...

 

Another day, another mass shooting committed by a private citizen legally allowed to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in public.

This time it was 40-year-old Ian Stawicki, who entered a Seattle cafe on Wednesday and opened fire, killing four people. He then left Cafe Racer, killing another person during a carjacking before taking his own life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...g-lat_b_1563392.html

 

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf    <------  link to a pdf containing a list of permit holders who killed one or more persons, including but not limited to LEOs. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

Another day, another mass shooting committed by a private citizen legally allowed to carry a concealed, loaded handgun in public.

This time it was 40-year-old Ian Stawicki, who entered a Seattle cafe on Wednesday and opened fire, killing four people. He then left Cafe Racer, killing another person during a carjacking before taking his own life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...g-lat_b_1563392.html

 

http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf    <------  link to a pdf containing a list of permit holders who killed one or more persons, including but not limited to LEOs. 

 


 

Already looked thru that Crash.  Nice try but no cigar.  Now find me one instance at an ALABAMA SCHOOL, where a CCP holder shot a child.  This law has been on the books for decades, so just find me one.

 

Here's a study with typical results concerning the average non-ccp holder vs. ccp holder crime stats:

 

"The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 7.7 times more likely to be arrested for the violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery, and assault than the average male CHL holder.

Looking at violent crimes individually, the average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 1.7 times (rate of 7.4 v. 4.3) more likely to be arrested for murder; 87 times (rate of 24 v. 0.3) more likely to be arrested for rape; 53 times (rate of 44 v. 0.8) more likely to be arrested for robbery; 3.4 times (rate of 202 v. 60) more likely to be arrested for aggravated assault; and 10 times (rate of 892 v. 87) more likely to be arrested for other assaults than the average male CHL holder.

No male Texas CHL holder was arrested for negligent manslaughter during the 1996 through 2000 period.

 

The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 18 times more likely to be arrested for committing a non-violent crime than the average male CHL holder."

http://www.txchia.org/sturdevant2000.htm#2000chart

 

 

 

@Frog, next time you are in a gun free zone and you have that warm and fuzzy feeling, remember this, almost every mass shooting has been committed in this type of place.  It's an easy target and perfect conditions for someone with a desire to go out in a blaze of glory and they are not going to let a sign or law stop them from doing the deed.

 

I hope you feel safer now.

 

 what difference does the location make?

why limit the sample to "alabama schools"? 

alabama school shootings occur. there's no "data base" of ccp holders. how would one go about finding a list to compare to the "school shooters" in alabama?

asking for information that just simply doesn't exist, doesn't make for a "winning argument".

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

 

 what difference does the location make?

why limit the sample to "alabama schools"? 

alabama school shootings occur. there's no "data base" of ccp holders. how would one go about finding a list to compare to the "school shooters" in alabama?

asking for information that just simply doesn't exist, doesn't make for a "winning argument".

"Simply doesn't exist".......now you're starting to get the picture.  I've been living in this state for over 40 years and don't remember it ever happening.  Don't you think if something like that happened it would remembered as it would be a pretty rare event and covered heavily by the media?

 

Face it Crash, you're afraid of the boogey man.

Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

no hoob, lets be perfectly clear. i'm afraid of nutbags with guns. ccp holder or not. makes no difference to me. and anything we can do to keep guns away from nuts, i'm all for it!


Good to know you won't be buying a gun, and yes I truly agree with you on this.  But stats show the average CCP holder is far less likely to commit crimes than the average citizen.  If you think you are safer being protected by a piece of paper with a little ink on it, more power to you and your state of bliss.

Originally Posted by frog:
 

Seriously, I am not saying don't have second amendment rights at all, but just keep the guns off school property.  Is that too much to ask?

'What ifs....'

 

I was a teacher and school administrator for 24+ years.  Many of those years I also worked in law enforcement.  And 'Yes', there were times I CCW'd in school.  I have been through 'Active Shooter Response' training.  It is my understanding that BEFORE any designated armed teachers are 'turned loose' in schools, they MUST receive the EXACT SAME training as ANY LEO RECEIVES with regards to 'addressing an 'active shooter'.

 

The problem with MOST liberals and guns is that liberals have been brainwashed into believing everything they have been told by other liberals WITHOUT ever bothering to VERIFY THE FACTS for themselves.  Most liberals are akin to the commercial with the girl stating she believes everything on the internet '.....because if it wasn't true, it wouldn't be posted on the internet.....'.

Frog - 

 

You missed my entire point.  By banning guns in places like you mentioned, you prevent someone from protecting themselves while going to and from those places.  The anti gun people you mention know this.  Those anti gun people play to the line of thought you have.  They preach about nothing but banning guns in those places because they know the end result is less people carrying anywhere else.

 

Why dont they push for the training / certification you mentioned?  They could probably get that passed (its that way in TN).  I even support training before being issued a CCW permit.  Problem is, when we begin talking about something along those lines and it gets to the legislative stage, the anti gun folks almost always throw in some additional language that further impedes our rights.  Then they lose the support of all the people like me.  After its defeated, they yell things like 'the NRA money defeated this law' in an effort to turn people like you further away from the truth about what their end game really is.  They drive that wedge between you and I. 

 

So, no, not everyone is anti gun.  But many are driven by anti gun propaganda created by people who want all guns banned.  

Wow. It must really suck to have to go through life afraid of everybody all the time.

 

Couple things I notice all these armed 'heroes-in-waiting' don't seem to consider:

Supposing somebody does shoot up the next Luby's or Jack's you are in...

What if you're one of the first ones shot and killed?

  What if you're not and you shoot the wrong person?

 

Either one is likely to happen first. Specially since prolly every yahoo in the place is likely to be packin'.

 

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Again with the 'What ifs'......

______________________________________________

What if there were no democrats……

 

We would have……..

 

Lots of jobs that pay well, no unemployment, a simply tax code, no ridiculous regulations, plenty of oil, environmental laws that make sense, less taxes, more freedom, a return to our Constitution.……..the list goes on and on.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Again with the 'What ifs'......

-------------------

Yeah. 'The what ifs.'

 

They matter ya know. 

Aren't you a LEO or former LEO, dog?  If so, you of all people should know about 'the what ifs.'

 You should know that just having a gun doesn't make you bulletproof. Or ten feet tall. Or invincible.

 

Seriously. You're sitting there munching on your chicken fingers and the guy at the table stands up and starts hosing the place down with a MAC-10. 

What makes you think you wouldn't be one of his first victims?

 It's a gun fa crissakes, not a force field.

 

Ya gotta consider the 'what ifs.' It's the stuff ya don't think about that bites ya in the ass.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:

Wow. It must really suck to have to go through life afraid of everybody all the time.

 

Couple things I notice all these armed 'heroes-in-waiting' don't seem to consider:

Supposing somebody does shoot up the next Luby's or Jack's you are in...

What if you're one of the first ones shot and killed?

  What if you're not and you shoot the wrong person?

 

Either one is likely to happen first. Specially since prolly every yahoo in the place is likely to be packin'.

 

 

What if I'm not armed and the person in Jacks kills my wife and child and i have to live with the fact that i could have protected them had i been armed?  

 

You could 'what if' yourself until you turn blue - fact of the matter is I have a better chance of protecting myself from a criminal with my pistol than i do without.  

 

Just because you don't 'notice' that we don't consider those scenarios doesn't mean that we dont consider those scenarios.   Assuming that we don't says more about you than it does about us......

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:

Wow. It must really suck to have to go through life afraid of everybody all the time.

 

Couple things I notice all these armed 'heroes-in-waiting' don't seem to consider:

Supposing somebody does shoot up the next Luby's or Jack's you are in...

What if you're one of the first ones shot and killed?

  What if you're not and you shoot the wrong person?

 

Either one is likely to happen first. Specially since prolly every yahoo in the place is likely to be packin'.

 

 

What if I'm not armed and the person in Jacks kills my wife and child and i have to live with the fact that i could have protected them had i been armed?  

 

You could 'what if' yourself until you turn blue - fact of the matter is I have a better chance of protecting myself from a criminal with my pistol than i do without.  

 

Just because you don't 'notice' that we don't consider those scenarios doesn't mean that we dont consider those scenarios.   Assuming that we don't says more about you than it does about us......

----------------------

Classic doublespeak.

 Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to getting shot. In fact as I understand it-it might even increase your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict.

The fact remains-unless the shooter is blind, you don't stand a chance.

If you drive down wood av  or pine st with no plan of stopping at UNA that will put you within a 1000 feet of a school. So does this mean you can't drive on wood or pine or tune av or hermitage dr, bradshaw dr and I am sure there are more streets within a 1000 feet of a school without taking a chance of getting arrested even with a permit. 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:

Wow. It must really suck to have to go through life afraid of everybody all the time.

 

Couple things I notice all these armed 'heroes-in-waiting' don't seem to consider:

Supposing somebody does shoot up the next Luby's or Jack's you are in...

What if you're one of the first ones shot and killed?

  What if you're not and you shoot the wrong person?

 

Either one is likely to happen first. Specially since prolly every yahoo in the place is likely to be packin'.

 

 

What if I'm not armed and the person in Jacks kills my wife and child and i have to live with the fact that i could have protected them had i been armed?  

 

You could 'what if' yourself until you turn blue - fact of the matter is I have a better chance of protecting myself from a criminal with my pistol than i do without.  

 

Just because you don't 'notice' that we don't consider those scenarios doesn't mean that we dont consider those scenarios.   Assuming that we don't says more about you than it does about us......

----------------------

Classic doublespeak.

 Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to getting shot. In fact as I understand it-it might even increase your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict.

The fact remains-unless the shooter is blind, you don't stand a chance.

Unsupported BS!

 


You come off as a pretty sensible guy ...most of the time, THEN you come up with dumb sheet like "surprise trumps a gun every time" and the remark above???

In the REAL world it can go EITHER way...or is your insight so tuned as to know what each and every cc holder/gun toter would do/fail?

If you're comfortable with having an instant "can of Road Pup Whoopass" on you tha's fine.

Me? I'm too old and fragile to go through the physical motions /fights that I KNOW something about from younger days.

And I would dam sure rather have a "gun" at a "gunfight"...than a Karate chop!

 

 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Classic doublespeak.

 Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to getting shot. In fact as I understand it-it might even increase your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict.

The fact remains-unless the shooter is blind, you don't stand a chance.


Well duuuuuh, of course it increases your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict, you sure aren't going to become involved in an armed conflict if you don't have a gun.  You know what you will become?  A victim.

 

No matter how much I like you, you and I are never going to find middle ground on this because you dont want to find middle ground.  Your comments show that you are of the anti gun crowd, no matter how much you profess your support of the 2nd amendment.  Think Diane Feinstein - supports the constitution in full until you catch her off guard and she admits she would collect all guns if given the opportunity.  Frog and Jank have valid concerns, which many gun owners are understanding of.  What gun owners don't accept are people that come up with comments about how a 'gun is not a forcefield' or 'you dont stand a chance anyway' or 'you just carry it because it makes you feel like a man.'  Those comments are rhetoric right out of the Liberal Gun Haters playbook.  They don't add to the discussion and do nothing more than drive a wedge between people like myself and people like Jank and Frog.

 

As for your other comment, I'll let Hoob pull the stats to prove you are incorrect, I dont have time this morning as I am about to go out and do some shooting at our home made range

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

ok dog, bud or some LEO, what's the verdict. What are you going to enforce? Are we going to have to worry about guns in school carried by the likes of rolly?

"Rolly" has carried a gun to school events for over 28 years...Quaildung.

Concealed.

Can you provide any evidence that "Rolly" misused his gun???

Didn't think so.

Sometimes your mouth overunneth your ass...

Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Classic doublespeak.

 Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to getting shot. In fact as I understand it-it might even increase your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict.

The fact remains-unless the shooter is blind, you don't stand a chance.


Well duuuuuh, of course it increases your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict, you sure aren't going to become involved in an armed conflict if you don't have a gun.  You know what you will become?  A victim.

 

No matter how much I like you, you and I are never going to find middle ground on this because you dont want to find middle ground.  Your comments show that you are of the anti gun crowd, no matter how much you profess your support of the 2nd amendment.  Think Diane Feinstein - supports the constitution in full until you catch her off guard and she admits she would collect all guns if given the opportunity.  Frog and Jank have valid concerns, which many gun owners are understanding of.  What gun owners don't accept are people that come up with comments about how a 'gun is not a forcefield' or 'you dont stand a chance anyway' or 'you just carry it because it makes you feel like a man.'  Those comments are rhetoric right out of the Liberal Gun Haters playbook.  They don't add to the discussion and do nothing more than drive a wedge between people like myself and people like Jank and Frog.

 

As for your other comment, I'll let Hoob pull the stats to prove you are incorrect, I dont have time this morning as I am about to go out and do some shooting at our home made range

--------------------

Uh-huh. 

Like I said before-I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti 'Wild, Wild West.'

Whether you have a gun or not-you'll be a victim. Whaddya think the bullets are only gonna hit the armed people!!?? LOL.

How fast can you draw, pick your target and fire?

 

 

Ya foolin' yaself, methinks.

Living in fear's just another way of dying before your time.

 

Last edited by Road Puppy
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
 

Only because these types of laws had not been passed , were the people who shot up Gabby Giffords, the movie studio, and most of the school shootings, and a host of other mass murders, were "legal lawabiding gunowners" . To you maybe, to me they were crazies who should never have been able to obtain a gun of any kind . Sorry , I can't think those people are "legal , law abiding gun owners" .

 

 

Ok, serious question, how do we predict who is going to go on a shooting spree and keep that person (who has otherwise been a law abiding citizen) from purchasing a gun?  Most of the people that commit these crimes might have had someone say "he's not right" or "we knew something would happen", but how do you take that from speculation to actual reason to suspend someones rights?

 

Capt, I suggest starting with what we have.  As I mentioned previously, we have the mental health records of Boland...I mean someone does...and I'm pretty dang sure about others Weed mentioned as well.

 

Unless the mental health professionals are totally incompetent they should be able to predict who is a loose cannon...a threat or danger.  And while I appreciate doctor-patient privilege, I think personal responsibility to the community outweighs any such privilege.  They tell us were pedophiles live.  

 

That is the question at hand.  All these folks out there are saying the NRA doesn't care because they are against gun laws, but I have YET to see anyone answer this question and give us (and the NRA) a way to move forward and not trample peoples rights.  'Lets try something - anything' is not an answer.

 

My answer...lets start working with what we've got.  Nothing worse than a law on the book that is totally unenforceable.

 

Bud, pretty much what I would have answered. 

The problem I have with the NRA and assorted gun nuts is they don't want ANY restrictions on who can go buy a gun. 
I have guns, and a carry permit. I carry in my car whenever I am on a trip, and although I don't think it is legal, have on occasion brought it into a bar when I was concerned there may be some trouble.
Having said that, I do not wish for our society to become a wild west sort of place. I don't want teachers and admin people in schools to have to carry guns (BTW, that is one of the crazy things I have heard - people who take that position, I can understand why they don't want crazy people to be denied guns)

I wish to live where I can go to a restaurant without carrying, concealed or otherwise, or go to church, or go to Walmart (saw an old man at WalMart in Muscle Shoals a couplel of days ago with a gun strapped on ) . I mean, do you really wish to live in that kind of society with the constant fear that someone is going to start a gunfight ?

 

+++

 

Weed,

 

Regarding the purchase/possession of firearms by felons and crazies, the NRA’s stance is the same as yours.

 

Regarding your lawful purchase of your .44 Magnum handgun, the NRA’s stance is the same as yours.

 

Sounds like you have you have met your enemy and he is you.

 

 

I’ve spent many-many-0-hour sitting in a gun shop, arms folded on a stool watching and listening to the constant parade of gun-nuts. Most were harmless it seemed even though they wore their pants above the navel and had weird headgear . The unusual thing was the number of popo that hung out in uniform. It made one wonder if the gun was considered the tool of trade or the brain.

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by Capt James T:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Classic doublespeak.

 Carrying a gun doesn't make you immune to getting shot. In fact as I understand it-it might even increase your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict.

The fact remains-unless the shooter is blind, you don't stand a chance.


Well duuuuuh, of course it increases your chances of becoming involved in an armed conflict, you sure aren't going to become involved in an armed conflict if you don't have a gun.  You know what you will become?  A victim.

 

No matter how much I like you, you and I are never going to find middle ground on this because you dont want to find middle ground.  Your comments show that you are of the anti gun crowd, no matter how much you profess your support of the 2nd amendment.  Think Diane Feinstein - supports the constitution in full until you catch her off guard and she admits she would collect all guns if given the opportunity.  Frog and Jank have valid concerns, which many gun owners are understanding of.  What gun owners don't accept are people that come up with comments about how a 'gun is not a forcefield' or 'you dont stand a chance anyway' or 'you just carry it because it makes you feel like a man.'  Those comments are rhetoric right out of the Liberal Gun Haters playbook.  They don't add to the discussion and do nothing more than drive a wedge between people like myself and people like Jank and Frog.

 

As for your other comment, I'll let Hoob pull the stats to prove you are incorrect, I dont have time this morning as I am about to go out and do some shooting at our home made range

--------------------

Uh-huh. 

Like I said before-I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti 'Wild, Wild West.'

Whether you have a gun or not-you'll be a victim. Whaddya think the bullets are only gonna hit the armed people!!?? LOL.

How fast can you draw, pick your target and fire?

 

 

Ya foolin' yaself, methinks.

Living in fear's just another way of dying before your time.

 

It aint "fear"...It's called "vigilance"...(that's watching out for potential threats) ya' know?

Kinda' like watching that car at an intersection that creeps just a little too far forward???

You don't practice this "vigilance" when transporting those precious lives in your care???

Read up and educate yourself...meybe???

http://www.forbes.com/sites/la...e-gun-control-lobby/

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

I’ve spent many-many-0-hour sitting in a gun shop, arms folded on a stool watching and listening to the constant parade of gun-nuts. Most were harmless it seemed even though they wore their pants above the navel and had weird headgear . The unusual thing was the number of popo that hung out in uniform. It made one wonder if the gun was considered the tool of trade or the brain.

I can picture you... spending many-o-hour. Arms folded. Sitting on a stool. Watching...

BUT! NOT at a gun shop.

Rather, at some lonely, after-hours diner.

Waiting for some female-of-your-dreams  to offer a glance at you.

Then, screwing it up by opening your mouth and uttering some dumbassed remark....such as you do HERE, then STALKING her...

Yep.

Pretty much the way you have been described...

 

Am I being to hard on you????

 

Bahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Again with the 'What ifs'......

-------------------

Yeah. 'The what ifs.'

 

They matter ya know. 

Aren't you a LEO or former LEO, dog?  If so, you of all people should know about 'the what ifs.'

 You should know that just having a gun doesn't make you bulletproof. Or ten feet tall. Or invincible.

 

Seriously. You're sitting there munching on your chicken fingers and the guy at the table stands up and starts hosing the place down with a MAC-10. 

What makes you think you wouldn't be one of his first victims?

 It's a gun fa crissakes, not a force field.

 

Ya gotta consider the 'what ifs.' It's the stuff ya don't think about that bites ya in the ass.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Your 'what ifs' have you frozen into a state of rigid fear.  NOT having the means to protect yourself and loved ones is the pinnacle of selfishness.  You liberals don't want to accept personal responsibility. You want SOMEONE ELSE to do your 'dirty work' for you. 

 

I pay attention to my surroundings.  I'm a 'people watcher'.  Because of this, I rarely get to truly ENJOY a meal when dining out.

Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by dogsoldier0513:

Again with the 'What ifs'......

-------------------

Yeah. 'The what ifs.'

 

They matter ya know. 

Aren't you a LEO or former LEO, dog?  If so, you of all people should know about 'the what ifs.'

 You should know that just having a gun doesn't make you bulletproof. Or ten feet tall. Or invincible.

 

Seriously. You're sitting there munching on your chicken fingers and the guy at the table stands up and starts hosing the place down with a MAC-10. 

What makes you think you wouldn't be one of his first victims?

 It's a gun fa crissakes, not a force field.

 

Ya gotta consider the 'what ifs.' It's the stuff ya don't think about that bites ya in the ass.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Your 'what ifs' have you frozen into a state of rigid fear.  NOT having the means to protect yourself and loved ones is the pinnacle of selfishness.  You liberals don't want to accept personal responsibility. You want SOMEONE ELSE to do your 'dirty work' for you. 

 

I pay attention to my surroundings.  I'm a 'people watcher'.  Because of this, I rarely get to truly ENJOY a meal when dining out.


Okay, here is the basic problem.  No, it isn't selfish not to want guns in schools or to have a difference of perspective about the issue.  Your comment is offensive and is why the conversation stalls.  I am a people watcher as well and no, this isn't about accepting personal responsibility.  You ended a reasonable discussion when you made the "you liberals" comment.  It wasn't true, wasn't necessary, and wasn't very helpful.  I don't want anyone to do my dirty work for me, and neither do others who happen to not want guns in certain places and who want solid background checks.  Why did you resort to that?  Didn't you have anything more reasonable to say?  Liberals aren't the only ones who want guns out of schools and who want reasonable checks and safety.  How sad you had to try to make this political and call people who happen to disagree with you selfish.  I could have tried to paint all who want to carry guns to school events as selfish and given just as many reasons as you would for calling those who don't selfish, but I didn't.  Seriously, can you not keep that out of a polite conversation?  The only thing that brings fear out for me is the thought of people who have cowboy attitudes or those with mental issues or anger issues or drinking carrying guns near my family. It isn't about reasonable people who are trained and in reasonable places.  

This could be considered slightly off topic, but it does involve guns in the workplace (not in vehicles necessarily, but in offices as well). I now work at a company were almost everyone has several degrees. One of my three bosses has a gun in his office even though it is against company policy. I'm not concerned about this since all those who work in our building are college educated and mentally stable engineers, etc.

 

However, early in my business career, I've worked in places where customers, some irate, would enter to conduct business. Some employees were related to each other and very much the cowboy type. Several times I've witnessed someone come in angry and be observed by those who had no contact with the "front of the house" employees, but usually these same employees would say to someone (or almost anyone), "Do you think I should get my gun?"

 

No, I'm pretty sure irate customers can be handled without a gun 99.99% of the time. It bothers me that these cowboy types had guns to begin with. What's going to happen now that these types can run to their cars and arm themselves in seconds?

Kate, your post made me think of when I was in high school in Florence and two coaches got into a fist fight on school property.  Another time one of the coaches hit a male student.  I had a teacher in grade school who, despite being a fairly elderly nun, had tantrums in front of class regularly.  She really hated teaching, they couldn't seem to control their tempers, and I worked in NJ for AT&T security where another employee in my section didn't like that he had to actually do his overnight job and was so angry he put a big poster up in the office with guns facing out pointed to all of us.  He got fired, but I hate to think what could have happened if all those people had quick access to guns at work or in school.  This isn't about most of you who don't act like cowboys, but about the ones (and no, they aren't really rare) who aren't rational and stable.

 

I have no doubt that nun would have taken kids out, and I can't say the coaches wouldn't have either.  I know that man at AT&T would have brought his gun if he could have...he bragged about having one and how a few of us "wouldn't be picking on him any more" if they had just let him "even things up".

 

I don't think making statements like, "right-wing gun nuts" or "weak liberals" is even what this is about.  It's about not acting like guns are something to intimidate people with or play cowboy with, and it's also about acknowledging that guns aren't going away and that there are some legitimate uses for them.  I wouldn't hunt, but I know that some do and eat what they shoot.  Having one safely locked away in a home for self-defense is a personal decision if you are legally allowed to have one.  If we can all stop the baiting of people with other views I think much more could be accomplished.  

 

I have seen comments about the anti-gun agenda, but refusing to recognize that there is a "guns everywhere and however everyone wants" agenda as well shows a huge bias.  This goes both ways.  There is big money to be had in selling lots of guns an ammunition, and there is money to be had on the other side as well, so this has to be people discussing and compromising instead of insults and generalizations.  

Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
 

It aint "fear"...It's called "vigilance"...(that's watching out for potential threats) ya' know?

Kinda' like watching that car at an intersection that creeps just a little too far forward???

You don't practice this "vigilance" when transporting those precious lives in your care???

Read up and educate yourself...meybe???

http://www.forbes.com/sites/la...e-gun-control-lobby/

------------------------Yo, Rolly...
Uh-huh. It's fear. Oh sure, you call it vigilance, but it's vigilance borne out of fear. One post here really caught my attention and does justify what I'm saying. The post has become so convoluted I can't really figure out who said it first, but it went like this:
" I wish to live where I can go to a restaurant without carrying, concealed or otherwise, or go to church, or go to Walmart (saw an old man at WalMart in Muscle Shoals a couplel of days ago with a gun strapped on ) . I mean, do you really wish to live in that kind of society with the constant fear that someone is going to start a gunfight ?"

(The context of the post may have been different than what I'm saying)

Like I keep saying-It's gotta suck to live in fear like that.
I'm not afraid of people.
I've been going into restaurants and Walmarts and all kinds of other places with all kinds of people you prolly would keep your hand on your gun around just because of the way they look for the better part of 50 years and I've never once thought "I wish I had a gun."

The bus/intersection example you describe is an example of your fear mentality. The bus driver doesn't fear the car because he knows the car will just bounce off his 14-ton bus like an air hockey puck and he knows that his passengers are compartmentalized and high enough off the ground so that the impact forces would be directed away from them. Of course the bus driver does all he can to avoid a collision with a car in the first place in the name of safety for everyone involved, but he's not afraid of one.

It's called 'confidence.' Just like I know that pretty much no matter where I am or who I'm around, I'm confident that I will not put myself in a position where I'll be shot at. It's not likely that somebody will spazz out and start blazing away in the restaurant. I conduct myself in a civilized and for the most part polite manner with people so it's unlikely that somebody'll get mad enough to want to shoot me (although I've noticed that a lot of people around here tend to run out of words and start shooting pretty quickly. I do take that into consideration.)
I also know that if somebody DOES wanna hose down the place I'm in-unless I'm not the first target-I prolly won't know what hit me anyway. If the bullet has your name on it-it's gonna get ya. No sense walking around worried about it all the time.
Carrying a gun from what I've observed seems to cause a false confidence in people.
They tell me that they're NOT afraid BECAUSE they're carrying a gun.
But...
They're a lil' more c o c k y when they're packin'.
They shoot their mouths off more easily, which is a bad thing when they run outta words quick.
I would imagine yer in pretty bad shape if you need to carry a gun everywhere to have confidence in yourself..
Yes, the world is full of bad people. I bet it's also a really crappy place to live in when you're always afraid of the possibility that one of them might be in your vicinity.

 

*Edit* My ISP took a dump for a bit while I was writing and stuff went by me..

Nice one, frog!

 

Dog.....well, ya just made my point for me.

 

"Your 'what ifs' have you frozen into a state of rigid fear.  NOT having the means to protect yourself and loved ones is the pinnacle of selfishness.  You liberals don't want to accept personal responsibility. You want SOMEONE ELSE to do your 'dirty work' for you."

 

'You liberals', eh? Izzat a buzzword for 'welfare bums? Communists? Socialists? '

Do you also refer to Black folks as 'you people' when addressing one of them? How 1950s of you.

Heh. I have no political affiliation, but I am progressive-leaning.

 

So, you're telling me that because I don't carry a gun....that I am...somehow paralyzed with fear.. (???) O-Taaayyy, Banky. You just keep tellin' yerself that.

And that....somehow I am......shirking my responsibility...to....what??....get in gunfights like an idiot???

That I am leaving my 'dirty work' to the likes of YOU? What a pompous ass you must be!

WHAT 'dirty work?'

This isn't the wild west, muh&*&$er.... We ain't squarin' off in the middle of main street at high noon here...

 

 

Yo, Captain America. *knock knock*  Reality check..

I don't have any 'dirty work' for you to do for me.

Know why? 

Because I'm not an a-hole and I'm not a loose cannon.

YOU will never have to worry about doing my 'dirty work.'

 

 

 

 

"I pay attention to my surroundings.  I'm a 'people watcher'.  Because of this, I rarely get to truly ENJOY a meal when dining out."

 

Like I keep saying....It's gotta really suck to live like that, man....

I watch people, too, but for more benign reasons.

I'm not afraid of them. It would be-to me- a waste of time.

 

 


/whatever

Last edited by Road Puppy
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by Roland Pfalz:
 

It aint "fear"...It's called "vigilance"...(that's watching out for potential threats) ya' know?

Kinda' like watching that car at an intersection that creeps just a little too far forward???

You don't practice this "vigilance" when transporting those precious lives in your care???

Read up and educate yourself...meybe???

http://www.forbes.com/sites/la...e-gun-control-lobby/

------------------------Yo, Rolly...
Uh-huh. It's fear. Oh sure, you call it vigilance, but it's vigilance borne out of fear. One post here really caught my attention and does justify what I'm saying. The post has become so convoluted I can't really figure out who said it first, but it went like this:
" I wish to live where I can go to a restaurant without carrying, concealed or otherwise, or go to church, or go to Walmart (saw an old man at WalMart in Muscle Shoals a couplel of days ago with a gun strapped on ) . I mean, do you really wish to live in that kind of society with the constant fear that someone is going to start a gunfight ?"

(The context of the post may have been different than what I'm saying)

Like I keep saying-It's gotta suck to live in fear like that.
I'm not afraid of people.
I've been going into restaurants and Walmarts and all kinds of other places with all kinds of people you prolly would keep your hand on your gun around just because of the way they look for the better part of 50 years and I've never once thought "I wish I had a gun."

The bus/intersection example you describe is an example of your fear mentality. The bus driver doesn't fear the car because he knows the car will just bounce off his 14-ton bus like an air hockey puck and he knows that his passengers are compartmentalized and high enough off the ground so that the impact forces would be directed away from them. Of course the bus driver does all he can to avoid a collision with a car in the first place in the name of safety for everyone involved, but he's not afraid of one.

It's called 'confidence.' Just like I know that pretty much no matter where I am or who I'm around, I'm confident that I will not put myself in a position where I'll be shot at. It's not likely that somebody will spazz out and start blazing away in the restaurant. I conduct myself in a civilized and for the most part polite manner with people so it's unlikely that somebody'll get mad enough to want to shoot me (although I've noticed that a lot of people around here tend to run out of words and start shooting pretty quickly. I do take that into consideration.)
I also know that if somebody DOES wanna hose down the place I'm in-unless I'm not the first target-I prolly won't know what hit me anyway. If the bullet has your name on it-it's gonna get ya. No sense walking around worried about it all the time.
Carrying a gun from what I've observed seems to cause a false confidence in people.
They tell me that they're NOT afraid BECAUSE they're carrying a gun.
But...
They're a lil' more c o c k y when they're packin'.
They shoot their mouths off more easily, which is a bad thing when they run outta words quick.
I would imagine yer in pretty bad shape if you need to carry a gun everywhere to have confidence in yourself..
Yes, the world is full of bad people. I bet it's also a really crappy place to live in when you're always afraid of the possibility that one of them might be in your vicinity.

 

*Edit* My ISP took a dump for a bit while I was writing and stuff went by me..

Nice one, frog!

 

Dog.....well, ya just made my point for me.

 

"Your 'what ifs' have you frozen into a state of rigid fear.  NOT having the means to protect yourself and loved ones is the pinnacle of selfishness.  You liberals don't want to accept personal responsibility. You want SOMEONE ELSE to do your 'dirty work' for you."

 

'You liberals', eh? Izzat a buzzword for 'welfare bums? Communists? Socialists? '

Do you also refer to Black folks as 'you people' when addressing one of them? How 1950s of you.

Heh. I have no political affiliation, but I am progressive-leaning.

 

So, you're telling me that because I don't carry a gun....that I am...somehow paralyzed with fear.. (???) O-Taaayyy, Banky. You just keep tellin' yerself that.

And that....somehow I am......shirking my responsibility...to....what??....get in gunfights like an idiot???

That I am leaving my 'dirty work' to the likes of YOU? What a pompous ass you must be!

WHAT 'dirty work?'

This isn't the wild west, muh&*&$er.... We ain't squarin' off in the middle of main street at high noon here...

 

 

Yo, Captain America. *knock knock*  Reality check..

I don't have any 'dirty work' for you to do for me.

Know why? 

Because I'm not an a-hole and I'm not a loose cannon.

YOU will never have to worry about doing my 'dirty work.'

 

 

 

 

"I pay attention to my surroundings.  I'm a 'people watcher'.  Because of this, I rarely get to truly ENJOY a meal when dining out."

 

Like I keep saying....It's gotta really suck to live like that, man....

I watch people, too, but for more benign reasons.

I'm not afraid of them. It would be-to me- a waste of time.

 

 


/whatever

Pup, if that is not what I said, it is close enough.

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