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Hi Sofa,

I have seen this before -- but, it always blows my mind. Can you imagine how minute earth and our sun are compared to the other heavenly bodies?

And, yet many want to tell us that ALL OF THIS came from one small object in space exploding.

Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

No more than suggesting that a sky fairy just 'poofed' it all up one day.... 'Cept there's actual evidence to back up the Big Bang theory.

PRETEND I'M FROM MISSOURI -- SHOW ME!

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Big Bang Theory - What are the major evidences which support the Big Bang theory?

* First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.
* Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance. This is called "Hubble's Law," named after Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) who discovered this phenomenon in 1929. This observation supports the expansion of the universe and suggests that the universe was once compacted.
* Third, if the universe was initially very, very hot as the Big Bang suggests, we should be able to find some remnant of this heat. In 1965, Radioastronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin (-454.765 degree Fahrenheit, -270.425 degree Celsius) Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) which pervades the observable universe. This is thought to be the remnant which scientists were looking for. Penzias and Wilson shared in the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for their discovery.
* Finally, the abundance of the "light elements" Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe are thought to support the Big Bang model of origins.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

No more than suggesting that a sky fairy just 'poofed' it all up one day.... 'Cept there's actual evidence to back up the Big Bang theory.

PRETEND I'M FROM MISSOURI -- SHOW ME!


Why Bother, Bill. You could be handed unquestionable proof and you would still deny it.
I believe in God, and i believe in the Big Bang. Why is that so difficult for other believers to wrap their heads around?
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

No more than suggesting that a sky fairy just 'poofed' it all up one day.... 'Cept there's actual evidence to back up the Big Bang theory.

PRETEND I'M FROM MISSOURI -- SHOW ME!

Why Bother, Bill. You could be handed unquestionable proof and you would still deny it. I believe in God, and i believe in the Big Bang. Why is that so difficult for other believers to wrap their heads around?

IN OTHER WORDS - YOU HAVE NO PROOF!
DON'T WORRY ABOUT FACTS - JUST BELIEVE YOU - RIGHT?

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Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it. Smiler


Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, although he called it his "hypothesis of the primeval atom". The framework for the model relies on Albert Einstein's general relativity and on simplifying assumptions (such as homogeneity and isotropy of space). The governing equations had been formulated by Alexander Friedmann. After Edwin Hubble discovered in 1929 that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts, as suggested by Lemaître in 1927, this observation was taken to indicate that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point: the farther away, the higher the apparent velocity.[5] If the distance between galaxy clusters is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past. This idea has been considered in detail back in time to extreme densities and temperatures,[6][7][8] and large particle accelerators have been built to experiment on and test such conditions, resulting in significant confirmation of the theory, but these accelerators have limited capabilities to probe into such high energy regimes. Without any evidence associated with the earliest instant of the expansion, the Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the Universe since that instant. The observed abundances of the light elements throughout the cosmos closely match the calculated predictions for the formation of these elements from nuclear processes in the rapidly expanding and cooling first minutes of the Universe, as logically and quantitatively detailed according to Big Bang nucleosynthesis.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50,

To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense.

How can one object hanging in space be the source for the trillions of stars and planets in the billions of galaxies? Common sense tells us that absolutely nothing can be this dense.

Then, there are still my unanswered questions:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space where it was hanging?

Until these questions are answered -- any other theory is a moot point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Sofa,

I have seen this before -- but, it always blows my mind. Can you imagine how minute earth and our sun are compared to the other heavenly bodies?

And, yet many want to tell us that ALL OF THIS came from one small object in space exploding.

Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Well that is one thing we can agree on. Your mind has been blown for quite a while now. Just because you can't comprehend it, doesn't make it wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50,

To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense.

How can one object hanging in space be the source for the trillions of stars and planets in the billions of galaxies? Common sense tells us that absolutely nothing can be this dense.

Then, there are still my unanswered questions:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space where it was hanging?

Until these questions are answered -- any other theory is a moot point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


And yet, that is exactly what science is working toward, a real explanation. In the end, there won't be any magical creation that happened 6000 year ago.
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50,

To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense.

How can one object hanging in space be the source for the trillions of stars and planets in the billions of galaxies? Common sense tells us that absolutely nothing can be this dense.

Then, there are still my unanswered questions:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space where it was hanging?

Until these questions are answered -- any other theory is a moot point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

And yet, that is exactly what science is working toward, a real explanation. In the end, there won't be any magical creation that happened 6000 year ago.

Hi Crusty,

Working on and having are two entirely different animals. Science has "worked on" finding the "missing link" fossil for 150 years -- and it is still missing.

So, you might expect to find your answer for the Big Bang in the same hole with the "missing link" fossils. And, you are just as likely to find that answer as you are to find that very elusive "missing link."

Good luck! And, God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

No more than suggesting that a sky fairy just 'poofed' it all up one day.... 'Cept there's actual evidence to back up the Big Bang theory.

PRETEND I'M FROM MISSOURI -- SHOW ME!


quote:
Common sense tells us that absolutely nothing can be this dense.


*Laughing hysterically*
Oh! Oh! Oh, I Beg to differ! Big Grin

Pretend I didn't ask you this already a long time ago, thumper-Show me hard evidence of your god. Not the magic words-evidence.
Bill's a lost cause, and I'm not going to pick on him. That would be like kicking the retarded kid. It would be gratuitous cruelty.

But I have noticed that many people around here seem to want to try to agree with him, presumably on the grounds of religious solidarity. I have words for those people.

Enforced, deliberate, arrogant ignorance is no way to go through life. "God did it" is not the answer to very much anymore. Once it was, when we were much, much stupider, but now we know why the stars circle at night and why the tides rise and fall.

Bill asks "Who made the space...?" He's begging the question. Why say "who"? No one granted that a "who" is responsible. Bill made that up. Once again, I'm not picking on Bill, but this is the sort of nonsensical question that one gets from Fundamentalists when one publicly discusses science. Wise up, learn, and if you use your eyes and ears instead of your mouth, certain things will become clear to you.

Like, for instance, the concept that space existed before time. Space, time, matter, and energy all came into existence at the Big Bang. Space/time is one thing. That's Einstein at work for you, and there is no reason to believe that a person who accepts The Great Flood at face value would have any use for Einstein at all.

Human development is seriously retarded by people who already have all the answers--God did it. It is the end of curiosity. If our species is to even aspire to maximize our potential, we must abandon certainty in fictions and embrace the universe as we find it, holes in our knowledge and all. The gaps in our knowledge are those things that keep us going. Filling those gaps with Godspackle insults God.

Socrates noticed that as he got wiser, and became educated on a subject, more things about which he knew nothing presented themselves to him. A truly intelligent, educated person must admit to a lot of honest ignorance. But there is no ignorance, and all dishonest ignorance, in "God did it". It is the universal answer that answers, at the same time, everything and nothing.

Sofa's picture is really amazing. Almost none of the knowledge represented in it was known when my grandfather was a boy. What was known was that We are the Crown of Creation, the center of the universe, the reason for existence, and other narcissistic tosh. Would we really rather prefer to believe that we exist in the image of a God no one has ever seen than to understand the majesty of the awesome universe?

It seems some people would. I pity them. Oh, I'm not going to lay off them, or simply ignore them, their malice is contagious and must be resisted. The hatred that occurs when competing, conflicting certainties meet may be the end of us all.

Thanks for the pic, Sofa. We know a little more now for having seen it. We also know more clearly how much there is to be discovered.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50,

To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense.

Bill


Bill, it makes perfect sense and agrees with the Bible. All the info we have from the Bible is:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

A Big Bang would definitely start off the world with light. How can you say He did not create the world with a bang? It follows observed science, and is not contradictory.
Science and religion don't have to exclusive of each other.
b50, the bible has no special claim to authority. Its pronouncements carry no weight.

"The things that you're liable to read in the bible, they ain't necessarily so".

It fails in comparison to the Bhagavad Gita in terms of literature. It fails in comparison to current knowledge in terms of accuracy.

It almost equals Grimm's Fairy Tales, though. Partial credit there.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50, To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense. Bill

Bill, it makes perfect sense and agrees with the Bible. All the info we have from the Bible is:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

A Big Bang would definitely start off the world with light. How can you say He did not create the world with a bang? It follows observed science, and is not contradictory.
Science and religion don't have to exclusive of each other.

Hi B50,

Please show me any source which said that the Big Bang is "observed science." Who was there to observe it: Darwin? Dawkins? Hitchens? DeepFat? YOU?

Who observed the Big Bang and wrote it up for the science journals?

My Friend, like all of evolution and much of science -- it is all theories and postulations.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Bill, just admit that you hate the idea of the Big Bang because a Catholic priest came up with it.

Hi B50,

To be quite honest with you -- I did not know this. However, regardless of who came up with this postulation or theory -- it still makes no common sense.

How can one object hanging in space be the source for the trillions of stars and planets in the billions of galaxies? Common sense tells us that absolutely nothing can be this dense.

Then, there are still my unanswered questions:

Who created that dense object?

Who hung it is space?

Who created the space where it was hanging?

Until these questions are answered -- any other theory is a moot point.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

And yet, that is exactly what science is working toward, a real explanation. In the end, there won't be any magical creation that happened 6000 year ago.

Hi Crusty,

Working on and having are two entirely different animals. Science has "worked on" finding the "missing link" fossil for 150 years -- and it is still missing.

So, you might expect to find your answer for the Big Bang in the same hole with the "missing link" fossils. And, you are just as likely to find that answer as you are to find that very elusive "missing link."

Good luck! And, God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


This whole post just proves you need to brush up on your high school level science. Heck, just buy a subscription to Discover Magazine, and you will increase your scientific knowledge by about 1000% with one reading.

But, you find proof of triburaptilationture (or whatever you call your made up end times delusion)in a drug induced dream. So I'm not surprised at your ignorance of the subject.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:


Please show me any source which said that the Big Bang is "observed science." Who was there to observe it: Darwin? Dawkins? Hitchens? DeepFat? YOU?

Who observed the Big Bang and wrote it up for the science journals?

My Friend, like all of evolution and much of science -- it is all theories and postulations.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill, now you are just being silly. Observed science of the expansion of the universe in ever expanding and ever increasing circles from a center point. Science has proved that Bill. The same effect seen in the circles of water expanding from an object dropped in the water.

I don't have to see the plate fall off the table to figure out what happened when I find a broken plate and a mess in the floor. I also know something caused it to fall, just as something caused the bang. Why do you deny the possibility that that something was God?
quote:
Originally posted by David L.:
Big Bang Theory - What are the major evidences which support the Big Bang theory?

* First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.
* Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance. This is called "Hubble's Law," named after Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) who discovered this phenomenon in 1929. This observation supports the expansion of the universe and suggests that the universe was once compacted.
* Third, if the universe was initially very, very hot as the Big Bang suggests, we should be able to find some remnant of this heat. In 1965, Radioastronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin (-454.765 degree Fahrenheit, -270.425 degree Celsius) Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) which pervades the observable universe. This is thought to be the remnant which scientists were looking for. Penzias and Wilson shared in the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for their discovery.
* Finally, the abundance of the "light elements" Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe are thought to support the Big Bang model of origins.


Cool distillation David. Too bad even this simplistic language will go right over the heads of some.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Now, that blows my mind -- that anyone could even suggest the Big Bang!

No more than suggesting that a sky fairy just 'poofed' it all up one day.... 'Cept there's actual evidence to back up the Big Bang theory.

PRETEND I'M FROM MISSOURI -- SHOW ME!

Why Bother, Bill. You could be handed unquestionable proof and you would still deny it. I believe in God, and i believe in the Big Bang. Why is that so difficult for other believers to wrap their heads around?

IN OTHER WORDS - YOU HAVE NO PROOF!
DON'T WORRY ABOUT FACTS - JUST BELIEVE YOU - RIGHT?


Bill I note that you seemed to ignore David's post that stated the following
quote:
Big Bang Theory - What are the major evidences which support the Big Bang theory?

* First of all, we are reasonably certain that the universe had a beginning.
* Second, galaxies appear to be moving away from us at speeds proportional to their distance. This is called "Hubble's Law," named after Edwin Hubble (1889-1953) who discovered this phenomenon in 1929. This observation supports the expansion of the universe and suggests that the universe was once compacted.
* Third, if the universe was initially very, very hot as the Big Bang suggests, we should be able to find some remnant of this heat. In 1965, Radioastronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin (-454.765 degree Fahrenheit, -270.425 degree Celsius) Cosmic Microwave Background radiation (CMB) which pervades the observable universe. This is thought to be the remnant which scientists were looking for. Penzias and Wilson shared in the 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics for their discovery.
* Finally, the abundance of the "light elements" Hydrogen and Helium found in the observable universe are thought to support the Big Bang model of origins.


bill is your faith so weak that you must deny even these very simple self-evident proofs?
quote:
I also know something caused it to fall, just as something caused the bang. Why do you deny the possibility that that something was God?


I'm guessing because he has spent his entire life denying reality that at this late point he thinks it would destroy his faith. that's got to suck.

Bill, science is the tool that the educated among us use to understand the mind of God Himself.
Bill is all tied up in a religion of hate that sets himself above others in the name of a god that he finds in the Bible. Unfortunately, the only way he can justify his superiority is to literally interpret the KJV. Science as he knows it contradicts his literal interpretation, and therefore can't be right. The tail wagging the dog.

Never mind that the Scholastics solved the theoretical and philosophical problems of science vs the Bible centuries ago, allowing intelligent Christians the possibility of understanding science while still holding a belief in God and attempting to live a Christian life.

Bill's version of both science and Christianity is so convoluted that it is ridiculous.

He will in one breath say that he gets scientific principles - that they all come from God - and in the next breath berate anyone who understands evolution or is working toward an understanding of the origins of the universe.

His scientific beliefs are on par with fourth century Catholicism, yet any religious faith that isn't his brand of evangelical self-piousness is sub-par and it's adherents are doomed to a fiery eternity of ****ation.

The God I find in the Bible is one of love, one who is trying to reach the wretched. Bill's god is a god of hate, punishment, and retribution.
Last edited by CrustyMac

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