minister of a megachurch caught in Internet sex sting

Sounds like the Gospel According to Buster..

quote:

Prestonwood executive pastor Mike Buster said they're disturbed and saddened by the reports and are praying for the Barron family.

I am shocked, SHOCKED at this news!

Can someone tell me why the hell these people don't ask god to intervene BEFORE the pastor did somehting stupid?

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

Prestonwood executive pastor Mike Buster said they're disturbed and saddened by the reports and are praying for the Barron family.

I am shocked, SHOCKED at this news!

Can someone tell me why the hell these people don't ask god to intervene BEFORE the pastor did somehting stupid?

GF, religion is just like politics, these folks put their faith and trust in their leadership, and got disappointed.

Well, at least it was with a live girl and not a fait accompli and not his "chauffeur" as was the case of the Pink Wigged Woman's Fauxsace-shirted husband (Paul Crouch) or with his meth dealer-play for pay partner as the case of Ted Haggert.

The saps will still flock to their masters as surely as the sun will rise before 7 a.m. tomorrow morning in the East.

We must recall that the age of consent is "Man's' Laws" and not God's, ergo all those who have felt the call are obviously eligible for a mega pass from the mega pulpit, being the ultimate arbiters of all that is good and holy.

Once again, ministers went astray when when they neglected the fine arts of breeding dogs, wine savoring, and writing satire.

Let's say that you are a member of this church. Let's say that you knew this minister well. And you get the news about his wrong doings. Why would you want to protect this man? The same question would hold true if someone of the democrat or republican party does something wrong. Why do people stick their neck out to cover up for the person who did wrong in their church.democrat or republican party? For an example, when a republican does something wrong, you will hear the republicans defend and try to bring up something on a democrat like they did Bill Clinton, and vice versa. I don't care if it's my party, my church, or my own family, I'm not going to try to cover up for you or protect you because of your wrong doings. It seems a lot of these churches will try to protect their own by saying we will pray for him, God will forgive him, and everything will be ok. But if it's an outsider, it's a whole different story.

Reprinted from the Misc. section of this forum, under "An Atheist Manifesto".

quote:

An Atheist Manifesto

Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind is not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of 6 billion human beings. The same statistics also suggest that this girl s parents believe at this very moment that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.

Written by Sam Harris in his book "Letter to a Christian Nation".

Don't tell me this preacher is not a "true" Christian. He is. He will pray over this issue and beg christian forgiveness. Most likely, he'll get it.

I am an atheist. I could never do such a thing. GF is an atheist. I am confident he could never do such a thing. The perpetrator of this horrible crime is a christian.

I am glad JJ brought this up. If this example does not demonstrate that christianity is no engine for morality, what will?

DF

Hear, hear J.J. I too calls 'em like I sees 'em. A rat is a rat is a rat, and it takes more than a feeble apology and an appeal of "But I'm one of you!" to strum my heart strings.

I had a very simple rule when I taught: never be in a room alone with a student, door open or closed -- except for student workers, and then I always had the door open. If the conversation needed to be private, then go outside on the sidewalk in full view of dozens of people. Why? Because I value my reputation and would not want people defending me for my "indiscretion". Hence I would avoid even the appearance of anything untasteful with a student or coworker or anyone in position above, alongside or below me in any heirarchy.

Why do these people not realize that they have to be like Caesar's wife in public and private?
"Pray for them," indeed! Perhaps in public after their public admission of guilt in front of a huge crowd...

Thirteen year old girl! What an idiot! What a role model!

quote:

I don't care if it's my party, my church, or my own family, I'm not going to try to cover up for you or protect you because of your wrong doings.

REALLY JJ-
I seem to recall earlier today in the Keith Olberman thread that you, JJPAUL started,

quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Ah.The great olberdouche speaks.Didn`t he call American soldiers cold blooded killers the other day.


then you, JJ answered

"No such propaganda was said from Keith, That was made up propaganda from the right wing that is, if you really heard something like that".

but than, gracieadeline found this on the MSNBC,K.O. website, Mr. Bush, at long last, has it not dawned on you that the America you have now created, includes "cold-blooded killers who will kill people to achieve their political objectives?" They are those in — or formerly in — your employ, who may yet be charged some day with war crimes.......more
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24632990/
gracie also cited sources other than straight from the 'horses mouth'. thus far you haven't corrected yourself or added a retraction. that was over 12 hrs ago. what's up w/ that?
sounds hypocritical.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:

Don't tell me this preacher is not a "true" Christian. He is. He will pray over this issue and beg christian forgiveness. Most likely, he'll get it.

I won't. "True" Christians have just as many flaws as anyone else in this world. Even atheists.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
I am an atheist. I could never do such a thing. GF is an atheist. I am confident he could never do such a thing. The perpetrator of this horrible crime is a christian.

I am glad JJ brought this up. If this example does not demonstrate that christianity is no engine for morality, what will?

DF

You would not consider ever doing such an atrocious thing and you are an atheist. This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian. Is it really your argument that this proves ANYTHING? A sample consisting of two atheists and one Christian is enough for you to make a judgment of any significance or degree of statistical probability? Please. You're not even trying. If you're just gonna phone in your Christian-baiting, don't bother. It's beneath you.

quote:

This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian. Is it really your argument that this proves ANYTHING?

It doesn't prove anything but it sure is suggestive. More than that, it is so incredibly hypocritical that it exposes what's beneath the veneer.

One would think that if a omnipotent mind reader actually exists, he would zap these bastages with a lightning bolt before they harmed an innocent child. One would the scumbags would pray for (and receive) strength from the Creator of the Universe long before they commit such an act.

Truly, god is a reactive fellah. Why its as if he doesn't see it coming.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian. Is it really your argument that this proves ANYTHING?

It doesn't prove anything but it sure is suggestive. More than that, it is so incredibly hypocritical that it exposes what's beneath the veneer.

Wait, is your "it" what the pastor did, or what DF said? Because, really, it could go either way.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:
One would think that if a omnipotent mind reader actually exists, he would zap these bastages with a lightning bolt before they harmed an innocent child. One would the scumbags would pray for (and receive) strength from the Creator of the Universe long before they commit such an act.

Truly, god is a reactive fellah. Why its as if he doesn't see it coming.

Now, there! That's much better! See what you can do if you put a little effort into it, DF?

quote:

This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian.

WRONG...the pastor CLAIMS to be a Christian.

quote:

Originally posted by jetboy:

quote:

This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian.

WRONG...the pastor CLAIMS to be a Christian.

Don't bring that weak game in here. The argument (which, I suppose, is inevitable from the ranks of the "perfect" Christians) that anyone who does such a thing cannot be a "real" Christian is pathetic. REAL Christians commit REAL sins, just like all other REAL people do.

quote:

Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Let's say that you are a member of this church. Let's say that you knew this minister well. And you get the news about his wrong doings. Why would you want to protect this man? The same question would hold true if someone of the democrat or republican party does something wrong. Why do people stick their neck out to cover up for the person who did wrong in their church.democrat or republican party? For an example, when a republican does something wrong, you will hear the republicans defend and try to bring up something on a democrat like they did Bill Clinton, and vice versa. I don't care if it's my party, my church, or my own family, I'm not going to try to cover up for you or protect you because of your wrong doings. It seems a lot of these churches will try to protect their own by saying we will pray for him, God will forgive him, and everything will be ok. But if it's an outsider, it's a whole different story.

In the words of Mavericks Captain "I can't believe I'm going to have to do this", I agree with you JJ. I am a Christian but do not tolerate stuff like this. I am hoping when he is convicted he gets a real big cell mate who will show him the error of his ways. If guilty he should reap what he sows. I know my statement might upset some but I too have my shortcomings and will have to ask forgiveness my wish.

quote:

You would not consider ever doing such an atrocious thing and you are an atheist. This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian. Is it really your argument that this proves ANYTHING? A sample consisting of two atheists and one Christian is enough for you to make a judgment of any significance or degree of statistical probability? Please. You're not even trying. If you're just gonna phone in your Christian-baiting, don't bother. It's beneath you.

Ed,

It's not mathematical proof, but it is telling.

Or, is it a Get Out of Jail Free card? Forgiven in advance? If that is the case, then the whole institution is especially evil. Not only did his church fail to instill any morality in him, but it gave him reason to think his transgressions are forgivable. That would make it easier, don't you think?

It's unlikely, but maybe god forgives him. What is quite likely is that I do not.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:


Ed,

It's not mathematical proof, but it is telling.

Or, is it a Get Out of Jail Free card? Forgiven in advance? If that is the case, then the whole institution is especially evil. Not only did his church fail to instill any morality in him, but it gave him reason to think his transgressions are forgivable. That would make it easier, don't you think?

It's unlikely, but maybe god forgives him. What is quite likely is that I do not.

DF

You are being a lot more intellectually dishonest than I believed you to be capable of.

This one man has committed a crime, yet it is "telling" of "his church" and "the whole institution"?

You mentioned in another thread that you don't feel people who believe in fairy tales are worthy of respect. I can see where this might lead to your propensity to make such ridiculous statements in an effort to rile up the rubes, but in so doing, you show little respect for yourself, and a rather "telling" lack of integrity.

Ed,

I wish it were not so, but there seems to be a correlation between the clergy and child abuse.

Not a 1:1 correlation, of course, far from it, but disproportionate nonetheless.

My only point is that religion is neither the result nor cause of superior morality. In that case, of what use is it?

DF

DF,

Some people would argue that cats are useless. They contribute nothing to a modern household in the areas of vermin control, generating income, or sharing of the chores. Yet, you have 3.

Why?

quote:

Originally posted by chosen-one:

quote:

I don't care if it's my party, my church, or my own family, I'm not going to try to cover up for you or protect you because of your wrong doings.

REALLY JJ-
I seem to recall earlier today in the Keith Olberman thread that you, JJPAUL started,

quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Ah.The great olberdouche speaks.Didn`t he call American soldiers cold blooded killers the other day.


then you, JJ answered

"No such propaganda was said from Keith, That was made up propaganda from the right wing that is, if you really heard something like that".

but than, gracieadeline found this on the MSNBC,K.O. website, Mr. Bush, at long last, has it not dawned on you that the America you have now created, includes "cold-blooded killers who will kill people to achieve their political objectives?" They are those in — or formerly in — your employ, who may yet be charged some day with war crimes.......more
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24632990/
gracie also cited sources other than straight from the 'horses mouth'. thus far you haven't corrected yourself or added a retraction. that was over 12 hrs ago. what's up w/ that?
sounds hypocritical.

1.) This doesnt pertain to the topic at hand.

2.) Gracie freely took the comments out of context to appease his own agenda.

Thus it was not hypocritical, as Olbermann never said the things he was accused of saying.

Now focus on the topic at hand.

DF, being that you are an atheist I would presume (maybe foolishly so) that you are hypersensitive to being lumped together with a group, as a lot of Christians have fallen guilty of lumping all Atheists into God hating nihilist, which is far from true.

That being said, it's hardly fair to assume that an atheist would not do something like this, that his Christianity somehow contributed to this perversion.

Ed,

How does the discussion of cats follow our thread here?

And thanks for keeping up with me so closely.

DF

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Ed,

How does the discussion of cats follow our thread here?

And thanks for keeping up with me so closely.

DF

No nefarious purpose; I merely wanted to see what your justification was for keeping cats around. After all, what use are they?

quote:

Originally posted by Ed@Bama:

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

This pastor has done this thing and is a Christian. Is it really your argument that this proves ANYTHING?

It doesn't prove anything but it sure is suggestive. More than that, it is so incredibly hypocritical that it exposes what's beneath the veneer.

Wait, is your "it" what the pastor did, or what DF said? Because, really, it could go either way.

Ed,

The "it" was a humongous, horrible attempt to commit an act that is beyond evil: The corruption of a child.

Now, this wasn't some Joe Blow Christian from off the street. This was a church leader. Not just any church leader, but the minister of one of Dallas' humongous, opulent churches in one of the largest cities in the United States.

Here is a video of the main pastor of the church blaming this atrocious attack upon the innocence of a child on Satan instead of on the criminal who did the crime:

http://www.prestonwood.org/updates/video_pastor_20080518.php

Satan didn't possess this stupid man, Ed. Really.

I have a lot of respect for Deepfat, Neal Hughes, and Gofish. I enjoy reading these three people's posts and reply's whether I agree with them or not, they are very intelligent and make a lot of sense. You don't see these three get into name-calling or fights. You see them sticking to the topic and getting you back with facts. These three are up to date on religion, politics, etc.. It would be nice if everyone would post like these three.
I wish I had the knowledge these three had and the education to put it into words as they do. My brain knows what I want to say but sometimes it doesn't come out the way it was meant to be said.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

Ed,

The "it" was a humongous, horrible attempt to commit an act that is beyond evil: The corruption of a child.

100% agreement.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:
Now, this wasn't some Joe Blow Christian from off the street. This was a church leader. Not just any church leader, but the minister of one of Dallas' humongous, opulent churches in one of the largest cities in the United States.

And if it had been some random Christian off the street, this would somehow be less bad? What may be news to some people (but I'm sure it isn't to you) is that church leaders are susceptible to the same fears, maladies, mental illnesses, and yes, criminal urges that the rest of the human race is.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:
Here is a video of the main pastor of the church blaming this atrocious attack upon the innocence of a child on Satan instead of on the criminal who did the crime:

http://www.prestonwood.org/updates/video_pastor_20080518.php

Satan didn't possess this stupid man, Ed. Really.

Here's where I have a real problem. I don't have time to watch the video this morning, but I'll take you at your word as to its content. If the lead pastor is in ANY way defending the man who did this, I would be out of that church so fast your head would spin faster than Linda Blair's. There is NO excuse for what he did, and while I do believe that Satan had a hand in bringing this man's downfall, it was the pastor who made the decision to abandon everything he stood for. Let the courts decide his fate, and treat him just as it would any other sex offender.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed@Bama:
And if it had been some random Christian off the street, this would somehow be less bad? What may be news to some people (but I'm sure it isn't to you) is that church leaders are susceptible to the same fears, maladies, mental illnesses, and yes, criminal urges that the rest of the human race is.

"Less bad"? No. The evilness is clear no matter who attempted the crime. It is the sheer depth of hypocrisy that takes this indecent beyond evilness and into the realm that only pedophiliac priests, adulterer preachers and Ted Haggart occupy. These people are held to a much higher standard that us mortals. When they fall - as they often do - they fall very hard.

Furthermore, this kind of thing exposes the non-belief of even the most "staunch" believers. If the scumbag in question really believed a deity would judge him, he would not have attempted this evil crime. Like most believers, his belief is just for show.

quote:

If the lead pastor is in ANY way defending the man who did this,

Not defending him overtly. But does devote much of the sermon to blaming the act on demonic possession and the Enemy working from within. It is a transferrance of responsibility ht I find quite offensive.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFat:
Ed,

I wish it were not so, but there seems to be a correlation between the clergy and child abuse.

Not a 1:1 correlation, of course, far from it, but disproportionate nonetheless.

My only point is that religion is neither the result nor cause of superior morality. In that case, of what use is it?

DF

OK, so if this guy was just a regular JoeBlow off the street and NOT minister of a MEGA CHURCH would we even be discussing him? No. You only want to discuss the fallen Christians -- you never bring up anything else but those few that make the rest of us look bad. Selective memory....

BTW, how many Atheist sex offenders are out there? How many of them hit the news media?

Not trying to argue -- I'm just tired of the Christian vs. Atheist discussion. We have gone around this mulberry bush thousands of times and nothing has changed. Atheists still do not believe and Christians still believe.

I don't put my faith in man -- man will surely fail me. I put my faith in Christ and him alone...he has never failed me. DixieChik 2008

DC,

You might have noticed I did not start this thread.

Atheist sex offenders? There are bound to be some. There are good and bad people inside and outside of religion. My point is, religion is no guarantee of morality, despite all its claims.

The discussion and education of morality is important, however. No one wants to live in an immoral world. I would argue that the discussion of morality would be more successful without a religious basis.

Sorry you're tired of the topic. It's not going away any time soon. Don't feel threatened, though, there is nothing I can do to affect your religious thoughts. That will only happen between your ears when you really ask yourself "Why".

DF

I agree, Dixie.

A non-Christian is a sinner and a Christian is a saved sinner. There are of course many benefits and blessings in being a Christian - the ability to never sin again is not one of them.

Also, just an observation - if I were Satan, I'd target Christian leaders more heavily than the average Joe. I think it's safe to assume they get the lion's share of temptation. Pray for your pastor, folks.

quote:

You only want to discuss the fallen Christians -- you never bring up anything else but those few that make the rest of us look bad.

I'll be happy to discuss fallen Muslims, fallen Scientologists, and fallen Satanists.

Hypocrisy and deceit should be scorned and ridiculed at every opportunity, Dix. Just doing my job.

quote:

Originally posted by GoFish:

quote:

You only want to discuss the fallen Christians -- you never bring up anything else but those few that make the rest of us look bad.

I'll be happy to discuss fallen Muslims, fallen Scientologists, and fallen Satanists.

Hypocrisy and deceit should be scorned and ridiculed at every opportunity, Dix. Just doing my job.

Now if only you got paid to do your job right?

I have no problem calling someone out when they are in the wrong, but you don't just beat him up for what he did -- you beat other Christians up for what we believe. I don't believe that just because I am a Christian I will do no wrong -- that is untrue. I do wrong every day whether I realize it or not, but that is the thing about God's grace -- it gives me hope and reason to try to be a better person. I know without it I am lost in a lonely, hopeless and dying world.

I will get off my soapbox now, but no one ever makes a big deal out of Atheist sex offenders -- they expect them to have no moral code apparently.

quote:

but you don't just beat him up for what he did -- you beat other Christians up for what we believe

Yup.

As long as you folks continue to blame this kind of stuff on a boogy man who lives under the earth (instead of on the "fallen" person himself) I will, of course, continue to get a jab in when I can.

Really, the boogie man didn't do this, guys. The only person responsible for this attempt at one of the worst crimes imaginable was the criminal himself.

Shirking responsibility is not becoming of a modern primate.

Exactly, GoFish. It is Joe Barron's personal responsibility. God is not responsible. Christianity is not responsible. Joe Barron the man committed a crime. His church nor God nor Christians around the world nor the teachings of Christ were involved in this crime.

Yet the writer of this article felt compelled to go with the headline "MINISTER caught..." & not only give the church's name in the 3rd sentence but devote most of the article to the church, this man's responsibilities at the church, what the pastor of the church had to say, etc. rather than the crime. I see one sentence about the crime alone.

He's not even the executive minister, but works there as a married adults minister & for a mere 18 months. I guess News 8 Austin didn't get the "personal responsibility" memo. We should probably pass that memo around the forums while we're at it.

Ditto Joy -- GoFish -- none of us claimed he didn't do it and that he shouldn't be held accountable for it. You act like we say he should get a "get out of jail free" card or something and we have said nothing of the sort. I think any person that commits a sex crime against as child -- via internet or in person -- should be hung up by their toe nails and tortured regardless of where they attend church or whatever. His religion has nothing to do with it. His faith has nothing to do with it. I hope he clears things up with God before he dies, but that is between him and God. I never said the devil made him do it...he made his own choices...you know, free will and all that...

If the head poobah at the church in Plano wishes to invoke Satan as the cause, then I suggest he take a good long hard look in the mirror before looking for horns and a tail. If any of the advanced snake handlers out there wish to know what His Satanic Majesty, then take a look all around you and in the mirror.

"Satan" -- indeed! Have they found the witch mark or his familiar yet? Float test him, anyone? If he can say the Lord's Prayer, then it proves it was merely satanic possession and he hasn't yet sold his soul to el Diablo, or so they say.

Ludicrous, simplistic priestcraft trying to save face in an unsalvagable situation.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
. His church nor God nor Christians around the world nor the teachings of Christ were involved in this crime.

Yet the writer of this article felt compelled to go with the headline "MINISTER caught..." &

Joy,

Perhaps the writer of the article feels as I do: That the congregation and folks like you should be even more ticked off than I am over the hypocrisy amongst church leaders. They should formulate a strategy to deal with these kinds of people.

Instead, we have really nice people like you and Dix who dismiss the act saying the criminal was obviously "not really a Christian" and putting this act off on the Horned Boogie Man.

No, this guy likely thought himself a devout Christian and, at this very moment, he (and his congregation and you and Dix) are utterly confident that the Creator of the Universe will step in on his behalf and rescue him from the depths of hell.

THIS IS MADNESS!

There is barely a day that goes by that we don't read of some popular anti-gay church leader who had sex and shares crack with a gay man, preys upon children, beats his wife, or local deacons who secretly download child porn.

This incident is yet another long, sad string of incidents that strongly suggests (what we call "evidence" in scientific circles) that Christianity does not work as an effective means of dictating and enforcing morality.

You know what these incidents gets a lot of publicity. There are thousands of pastors who live Godly lives, give of themselves daily to the poor and the hurting, they live on meager salaries. We only see the "mega churches and the television ministries". We do not see the hearts of the thousands strife to what is good.

quote:

His religion has nothing to do with it. His faith has nothing to do with it.

You're surely right about that, DC.

Nothing at all.

DF

Sorry GoFish -- apparently you didn't read what I said the first time so I thought I'd quote myself again. I fully believe the man should be punished. I just don't think he deserves any more punishment than any other sex offender just because he is a Christian. I also don't think I deserve to be lumped into the same crowd with him when I don't support or condone what he did.

quote:

Originally posted by DixieChik:
Ditto Joy -- GoFish -- none of us claimed he didn't do it and that he shouldn't be held accountable for it. You act like we say he should get a "get out of jail free" card or something and we have said nothing of the sort. I think any person that commits a sex crime against as child -- via internet or in person -- should be hung up by their toe nails and tortured regardless of where they attend church or whatever. His religion has nothing to do with it. His faith has nothing to do with it. I hope he clears things up with God before he dies, but that is between him and God. I never said the devil made him do it...he made his own choices...you know, free will and all that...

quote:

apparently you didn't read what I said the first time so I thought I'd quote myself again.

Dixie,

I perfectly understand what you stated. Yes, I know that this act does not make you a criminal. Yes, I understand you believe this man should be punished. That is all beside the point.

At risk of repeating myself: This pervert likely thought himself a devout Christian and, at this very moment, most "believers" are utterly confident that this man is possessed by Satan and that the Creator of the Universe will step in on his behalf and utterly forgive him.

Dix, there is no nice way to put this: That is crazy talk. It is the very epitome of insanity.

YOU are responsible for your own behavior; Not a cave-dwelling horned creature, not a omnipotent space alien. You and you alone.