Hi to my Forum Friends,
While there is no real urgency to post this as a new discussion; I feel that this issue is one of great importance to all Americans. And, it is one which all of us should endeavor to understand more fully. In a previous discussion which I began titled "Is It Unchristian To Support Strict Immigration Laws?" -- my Friend, BFred, has posted good comments and thoughts which we need to openly discuss. Therefore, to make sure that more Forum Friends see and possibly join in this discussion, I have broken it out as a new discussion.
BFred, while I respect your thoughts, I do take a slightly different view. You tell us, "This is 'slightly' off subject of the original post but brings to mind the night before last, while watching O'Reilly on Fox News, the host said. 'What would Jesus do about illegal immigration?'" As soon as I heard this, the thought came to mind, that I doubt Mary and Joseph stopped to get a visa when they escaped to Egypt to protect Jesus from Herod."
But, do you have any doubts, whatsoever, that IF a visa or passport had been required in those days -- that Joseph and Mary would have complied with the legal law? I do not. I know that those righteous people would have follow the law to the smallest letter.
Then, you tell us, "Additionally, I have to wonder if, when his disciples traveled to other parts of the world to preach, if they went through any legal channels to do so -- or if the sort of snuck in?
Once again, the same understanding applies. Do you really believe that Peter, Paul, and the others who were traveling to different countries to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- would have broken the laws of those countries and attempted to sneak in illegally? No, of course you do not. Like me, you know that those righteous men would have followed all the laws of the countries they were entering.
You say, "I would not drag Jesus into this argument because I think it’s obvious whose side he would be on."
Would Jesus encourage breaking the law? In Matthew 5:18 Jesus Christ tells us, "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."
In the God inspired writings of the apostle Paul, we read in Romans 13:1, "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." Yes, that even includes Obama and his Congress. However, it does not, in any way, impede us from voting them OUT this November and in 2012.
So, would Jesus encourage breaking the law? I don't think so. Yes, He would have had, and would encourage, compassion. But, not to the extent of breaking or subverting the God ordained government and their laws.
Next, you tell us, "People who keep saying that the illegals need to go back and go through the correct legal channels to come here -- are very ignorant of what those legal channels are. Let’s suppose a young couple in Mexico wants to come here just for a visit. When they apply for a visa to come over they have to show that they own property, that they have a permanent job with about two years work history, they must have money in a bank account, a major credit card, etc…
Anyway, so much for your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses. If you want to come here you gotta have money. If you make two bucks an hour it is hopeless to have any of the requirements to come here, even to visit, much less to live here."
So, are you suggesting that America drop ALL legal requirements for people to immigrate here? If that were the case; America would not become a Third World Country -- we would quickly become a Fifth World Country.
While I have empathy for those who want to make a better life for themselves and their family -- we cannot drop all legal requirements for immigration. Otherwise, America would become the ghetto nation of the world.
You mention the poor people who make only $2 an hour and therefore sneak across our border in violation of our immigration laws. You do realize that these same folks manage to find $5,000 to $10,000 to pay the Coyotes who sneak them into America -- don't you? If they can do that; why can't they make that same effort to enter America legally? It would cost them no more -- and it would me immensely safer.
And, when you say, "Anyway, so much for your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses" -- you are ignoring the fact that this welcome is written on the Statue of Liberty -- and was welcoming "legal immigrants" as they came into America through Ellis Island. Nowhere on the Statue of Liberty do you see it written in Spanish -- or being posted on our southern borders or border fences.
You tell us, "With that said, I do agree that our borders need to be protected and secure, mostly because of terrorism and the drug traffic -- but also to make sure people are not crossing illegally. At the same time we need to 'lighten up' on the rules for visiting our country and for working here. Of course, we want to do all we can to insure the people coming here to visit are morally decent folks, but I do not think someone’s wealth is any indicator of their character."
I agree that we should take a serious look at our immigration laws -- and make corrections. The corrections should be to strengthen our borders -- and to make it somewhat easier for honest, hard working people to come here and work -- as long as those jobs they fill -- are not jobs where American citizens who are unemployed can work.
In the past, the immigration laws have touched me in very personal ways -- both positively and negatively. About 15 years ago, my wife, Dory, was working on an international project with a Filipino lady in Spain. We went to the Orange County office of Congressman Christopher Cox and requested a visa for her to come to America so that we could help her find a home to buy. With no hesitancy, the letter of approval was given to us. It happened so fast that I almost lost my breath.
Fast forward a couple of years. We had a friend in our church who was dying of cancer. Two of his sons still lived in the Philippines and we wanted them to be able to see their father before he died. We had letters from a number of prominent Christian leaders and business leaders saying they would accept personal responsibility for the two young men and their return to the Philippines.
The two young men: One was a serious college student and wanted to stay in the Philippines to finish college; so there is no doubt that, after his father's funeral, he would have gone home. The other had a good job with Philippine Airlines and was engaged to be married soon. No doubt that he was going back to the Philippines. Yet, Congressman Christopher Cox and his office would not even consider helping them visit their dad before he died.
I contacted Bill Clinton's white house and spoke with a number of people; receiving return calls from the State Department. They suggested I call the American Embassy in Manila -- which I did, several times.
The family of my friend delayed his funeral service for several days so that his sons might at least be able to attend the funeral. They were not able to come to their father's funeral. Our government would not allow this visit. Our government turned a cold shoulder to this family's needs. Yet, they had he money and the letters of assurance from prominent leaders. This was wrong.
In 1977, before I met my wife, I was dating a Mexican girl whose family lived about an hour south of Mexicali. One time I helped her drive to Mexicali, where I was dropped off at a hotel there for the weekend while she went to spend the weekend with her family. On the way home to Orange County, her sister came with us. The sister walked across the border at the gate, which can be done without a visa for folks who come to San Diego to work or shop. Once across, she joined us for the drive back to Orange County. Driving north on the freeway from San Diego to Orange County; the turn-off to go into Camp Pendleton comes before the Border Check Point.
Since her ex-husband had been a Captain in the Marine Corps and she still had her ID card; we drove into Camp Pendleton, drove across the base and exited beyond the Border Check Point. She had done this many times so that her sister could visit for a week or two, then go back home. However, it did make me wonder how many Marines pick up extra cash by doing the same thing for non-relatives. So, as you can see, I, too, have broken the immigration law -- but, it was when I was younger and not a Christian.
Fast forward to recent years. Dory and I have very good friends who are Mexican. He has his Green Card; his sister does not. They are both very law abiding (except for her immigration status), very hard working people whom I welcome as friends and would welcome as neighbors. Am I bothered by the fact that she does not have her Green Card? Yes, for several reasons. One, I do feel that she should make an effort to get it so that, when she goes home to visit their family, coming back would be much less dangerous for her. And, I would love to see her become an American citizen. Both she and her brother are what America is all about.
Yes, our immigration laws are in desperate need of overhaul. My sincere feeling is that our devoted leaders in Washington DC should have been working on this for the past year -- instead of ObamaCare.
Finally, you tell us, "Just in case any of what I said makes me sound like a Liberal, then think again. On most issues, I would be a little to the right of Reagan -- but I cannot stomach the Republican party's stance on immigration."
When you say "the Republican Party's" stance on immigration -- please be more specific. I am a Conservative, I am a Republican (although I will vote for the person, or the issue, not the party), I am Christian -- yet, I sincerely believe that America needs to close down the illegal border entries and have people coming into America through legal channels. Otherwise, we have absolutely NO CONTROL over who or what enters our communities, cities, states, and country.
Is my position an antiChristian stance on immigration? No, I do not believe it is; for we are told in the Bible to be good citizens as well as exemplary Christians. This we can do while still protecting our families, our communities, our states, and our nation.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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