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The LDS Cult maintains an online encyclopedia at:   http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/E...lopedia_of_Mormonism

 

It is a baldly apologetic site that soft-pedals the more controversial aspects of Mormon history and doctrine.

 

An example of the type of heretical stuff to be found there is this article on Adam, which is good for a few laughs:

 

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/M...rchangel#LDS_Sources

 

Here is an excerpt, under "Blood Atonement," a Mormon doctrine that says sometimes the blood of Jesus just is not enough to absolve certain sins:

 

"The doctrines of the Church affirm that the Atonement wrought by the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is efficacious for the sins of all who believe, repent, are baptized by one having authority, and receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. However, if a person thereafter commits a grievous sin such as the shedding of innocent blood, the Savior's sacrifice alone will not absolve the person of the consequences of the sin."


Not THAT, folks, is BIG TIME BLASPHEMY!  And it is on an official LDS web site operated out of Brigham Young University.

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Blood_Atonement

I yam what I yam and that's all I yam--but it is enough!

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Contendah, I respectively have a question. Well, actually more than one.

 

You talk about, (put down?) Mormons, their teachings & doctrines, you refer to them as a cult. I’m curious why you leave out & don’t talk (put down?) about one other churches& their doctrine’s? I’m speaking of the Baptist church that believes/teaches Once Saved, Always Saved. Surely, you don’t go along with such a lie? You may be blunt in the things you say, sometimes even rude, (as am I) but I wouldn’t believe you to be so dumb  that you would believe such a lie as OSAS.

 

And as you know, Bill Gray teaches that lie. He is no more than a tool for Satan, but when it comes to OSAS (which is why I have him blocked) I have never seen you refute his lies, question his accuracy as you do the Mormons that you refer to as a cult & seem to hate. I’m curious as to why not?

 

I’ve given many scriptures that speak against OSAS but as usual, Bill runs when he doesn’t have an answer. He seems to be scared to death of those scriptures like “let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall", but there are many, many more that he has no answer for.

(I can’t remember if you have ever referred to the Catholics as a cult or not)

 

Do you believe the Pentacostals that speak “in tongues” to be a cult? They handle snakes, run in church, jump up & down, clap, dance…..why not talk (put down?) about that church, call it a cult?

 

What would be your response if someone claimed the Church of Christ was a cult? The COC claims not to be a denomination. A denomination is no more than a church that claim common doctrinal beliefs, have common practices, & a name that distinguishes them from other churches. That right there says the Church of Christ has all the qualifications of being a denomination.

 

They believe that musical instruments can’t be used in church, they practice baptismal regeneration, & most of them believe if you aren’t COC, you’re going to Hell. They believe the COC to be the only church, as Vic believes his church to be the first & only church.

They use the Church of Christ title so that others will know who they are. Is that not denomination?

Do you think something is evil & wrong to use in church just because it’s not mentioned in the New Testament?

 

Wouldn’t it be something if one day when we all stand before God he said all of you that aren’t COC go to Hell. The rest of you follow me. (I find that funny to imagine)

My point in all of this is why pick on one or two, & leave the others alone? Others could be just as wrong or a cult as any other.

 

Someday it will be revealed who was right, who was wrong, but I have a feeling there’s going to be more important things to worry about than who went to what church.

Hi Chick,

 

You have me on Ignore/Block; but, no problem.  I just want to correct some of the things you have written for the sake of others. 

 

You wrote, "Do you believe the Pentacostals that speak “in tongues” to be a cult?  They handle snakes, run in church, jump up & down, clap, dance…..why not talk (put down?) about that church, call it a cult?"

 

First of all, our Pentecostal Friends are not the snake handlers.  That is one small group, I believe in Kentucky who teaches and practices that.  I am not even sure if they are affiliated with any church or denomination.  But, that is not a practice of our Pentecostal Friends.

 

Speaking in tongue is Biblical; although it is not a gift for everyone.  Personally, I see no reason for me to do it -- for God knows all languages, since He created them all.  So, why would He need me to pray in another language or tongue for Him to get my prayers. 

 

However, if praying in tongues, or speaking in tongues, helps my Pentecostal Friends feel closer to God -- then, by all means, do it -- and I ask God to bless you and your prayers.

 

Are our Pentecostal Friends lively in their worship?  Yes, but, that is not unBiblical.    There are some groups which fall within the larger umbrella of Pentecostalism who are either cult or very misled.  These would be the "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity preaching group; the "Slain in the Spirit" group, and a few others.  But, you cannot take those and lump all Pentecostals with them as cults.  That is not true.  Most Pentecostal churches, and people, are not cults.

 

Does Contendah disagree with me on "Once Saved, Always Saved" and the Rapture, Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom, etc.?  Yes.  But, that is okay.   All who are saved will know the truth on the way UP as we are Raptured.   No one's salvation is contingent upon their eschatological beliefs or their beliefs about baptism.

 

Is the Mormon church a cult?  Absolutely, for they teach a totally different God and Jesus Christ.  They teach an exalted man who is their god.  And, they teach a created being who is their Jesus Christ.   Neither are Biblical.

 

Is the Roman Catholic church a cult?   No.  But, it does teach a lot of doctrines, traditions, and rituals which are not Biblical.  Yet, a person can be a Roman Catholic and be born-again.  Of course, the question has to arise -- how long can they stay in the Roman Catholic church after they become born-again believers -- because of the many erroneous teachings."

 

And, that is why I refute the teachings of these churches; and, I am sure why Contendah does also.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

With islam on the rise in this country I wonder why tender one always tip toes around them. Take the thread about the schools having to accommodate the muslims because of their religious beliefs-if schools were told they'd have to accommodate the mormons for their religious beliefs we'd have to bury the tender one,  because I do believe his head would explode.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

 

 

 

 

Is the Roman Catholic church a cult?   No.  But, it does teach a lot of doctrines, traditions, and rituals which are not Biblical.  Yet, a person can be a Roman Catholic and be born-again.  Of course, the question has to arise -- how long can they stay in the Roman Catholic church after they become born-again believers -- because of the many erroneous teachings."

 

************************************

You've been told time and time again, and by different people.

billie you just don't know what you don't know.

You refute the Bible itself and make a mockery of it with your

heretic interpretations.  

 

 

 

 

quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Is the Roman Catholic church a cult?   No.  But, it does teach a lot of doctrines, traditions, and rituals which are not Biblical.  Yet, a person can be a Roman Catholic and be born-again.  Of course, the question has to arise -- how long can they stay in the Roman Catholic church after they become born-again believers -- because of the many erroneous teachings? 

You've been told time and time again, and by different people.  billie you just don't know what you don't know.  You refute the Bible itself and make a mockery of it with your heretic interpretations. 

Hi Vic,

 

I will be very honest with you -- I have no idea what you are trying to say.  And, my Friend, if I were a Roman Catholic -- I would be really embarrassed by your incoherent, rambling posts.   This almost makes me happy you are a Roman Catholic -- for I would cringe at you writing in support of the Christian faith.  But, my Friend, you do your thing.  Bless your heart.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:   Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Is the Roman Catholic church a cult?   No.  But, it does teach a lot of doctrines, traditions, and rituals which are not Biblical.  Yet, a person can be a Roman Catholic and be born-again.  Of course, the question has to arise -- how long can they stay in the Roman Catholic church after they become born-again believers -- because of the many erroneous teachings? 

You've been told time and time again, and by different people.  billie you just don't know what you don't know.  You refute the Bible itself and make a mockery of it with your heretic interpretations. 

Hi Vic,

 

I will be very honest with you -- I have no idea what you are trying to say.  And, my Friend, if I were a Roman Catholic -- I would be really embarrassed by your incoherent, rambling posts.   This almost makes me happy you are a Roman Catholic -- for I would cringe at you writing in support of the Christian faith.  But, my Friend, you do your thing.  Bless your heart.

************************************

It's like I said, you just don't know, and how can you know as stupid as

you are about the actual Christian faith. Your makeshift convoluted

ideas of a religion you dreamed up is yours and no one else.

 

You know what I'm saying you just can't accept the truth, you just can't

accept the true meaning of scripture.

 

Is it ignorance or stupidity you live under, I think it's both. It's really

stupidity on your part to knowingly change the words of Jesus. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

Your most recent posts must really make all Roman Catholics so proud -- that you can be such an eloquent speaker showing the world your version of the Roman Catholic faith.

 

My version of the Catholic faith would be the 2000 year old teachings of

Christ.

Your semi christian story is just that, a *******ized fourth or fifth edition

from an assortment of very confused losers. You have no Catholic friends.

 

My Friend, I have many Roman Catholic Friends and family -- and you do not reflect well on any of them.

 

I'm not making any attemp to impress anyone, I'm just here to refute your

satanic assault on the name of Jesus, my true catholic Christian Church

and other items you hate because you don't like them. For whatever reason. 

 

Bless your heart!......Could you be anymore sarcastic

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

 

You have me on Ignore/Block; but, no problem.  I just want to correct some of the things you have written for the sake of others. 

 

You wrote, "Do you believe the Pentacostals that speak “in tongues” to be a cult?  They handle snakes, run in church, jump up & down, clap, dance…..why not talk (put down?) about that church, call it a cult?"

 

First of all, our Pentecostal Friends are not the snake handlers.  That is one small group, I believe in Kentucky who teaches and practices that.  I am not even sure if they are affiliated with any church or denomination.  But, that is not a practice of our Pentecostal Friends.

 

Speaking in tongue is Biblical; although it is not a gift for everyone.  Personally, I see no reason for me to do it -- for God knows all languages, since He created them all.  So, why would He need me to pray in another language or tongue for Him to get my prayers. 

 

However, if praying in tongues, or speaking in tongues, helps my Pentecostal Friends feel closer to God -- then, by all means, do it -- and I ask God to bless you and your prayers.

 

Are our Pentecostal Friends lively in their worship?  Yes, but, that is not unBiblical.    There are some groups which fall within the larger umbrella of Pentecostalism who are either cult or very misled.  These would be the "Name It And Claim It" Prosperity preaching group; the "Slain in the Spirit" group, and a few others.  But, you cannot take those and lump all Pentecostals with them as cults.  That is not true.  Most Pentecostal churches, and people, are not cults.

 

Does Contendah disagree with me on "Once Saved, Always Saved" and the Rapture, Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom, etc.?  Yes.  But, that is okay.   All who are saved will know the truth on the way UP as we are Raptured.   No one's salvation is contingent upon their eschatological beliefs or their beliefs about baptism.

 

Is the Mormon church a cult?  Absolutely, for they teach a totally different God and Jesus Christ.  They teach an exalted man who is their god.  And, they teach a created being who is their Jesus Christ.   Neither are Biblical.

 

Is the Roman Catholic church a cult?   No.  But, it does teach a lot of doctrines, traditions, and rituals which are not Biblical.  Yet, a person can be a Roman Catholic and be born-again.  Of course, the question has to arise -- how long can they stay in the Roman Catholic church after they become born-again believers -- because of the many erroneous teachings."

 

And, that is why I refute the teachings of these churches; and, I am sure why Contendah does also.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill you allow the Pentecostals to run and jump but won’t allow the Catholics to do something that makes them feel closer to God.  Wat’s up with that.  Your chumming up with the Pentecostals has confirmed for me that you are one at heart. that’s ok but don’t expect to be taken seriously.

quote:   Originally Posted by Quaildog:
Bill you allow the Pentecostals to run and jump but won’t allow the Catholics to do something that makes them feel closer to God.  What’s up with that?  Your chumming up with the Pentecostals has confirmed for me that you are one at heart.   That’s ok.   But, don’t expect to be taken seriously. 

Hi Quail,

 

Anyone who brings a false, erroneous, or unBiblical teaching to the Religion Forum should be refuted.  The Pentecostals with their speaking in tongues, music, and dancing are not doing that.  These things are Biblical -- but, they are not for everyone.  Speaking in tongues would not make me feel closer to God.  But, if it does that for others, then, God bless them.

 

Am I "one at heart" with my Pentecostal Friends.  I pray that I am; but, only those who are believers.  You will find that in any group -- Pentecostal, Baptists, Methodists, Roman Catholics, etc. -- there are some who are believers and some who are not believers, even if they wear the hat.  So, for those in all these groups who are believers -- YES, I am one with them.  They are my Christian brothers and sisters.

 

When I refute a teaching or tradition from the Roman Catholic church -- it is because that teaching is not Biblical.    I will refute the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarian Universalist, Scientologists, and others who teach cult and/or unBiblical teachings -- because their cult teachings are not Biblical.

 

When it all boils down -- the bar is set by the Bible, and the Bible alone.  That is God's Written Word and it is the sole authority for salvation and for Christian living.  Any teaching which differs from or disagrees with the Bible -- is not Christian.

 

When I feel a Pentecostal is right, I will stand with him/her.  When I feel a Roman Catholic is right, I will agree with him/her.  And, that is based upon the Bible -- alone.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

2 Timothy 2-15 - STUDY

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Good evening Bill,

You stated:  Anyone who brings a false, erroneous, or unBiblical teaching to the Religion Forum should be refuted.

 

And the most erroreous one is sola scripture, which, as many of us have shown, is un-biblical, as Scripture itself attests.  That is the source of so many of your errors.  That, and your lack of uynderstanding of Catholicism. 

 

The Bible is NOT the sole authority for salvation.  Jesus is the sole authority.  He gave us His written Word, and his spoken Word.  Catholics believe both.  You only believe the written Word.  That is why we as Catholics have the fullness of truth.  Gives you a much cleareer understanding of things.

 

God bless!!

Hi Nathan,

 

You declare, "And the most erroneous one (teaching) is Sola Scriptura, which, as many of us have shown, is unBiblical, as Scripture itself attests.  That is the source of so many of your errors.  That, and your lack of understanding of (Roman) Catholicism. 

 

The Bible is NOT the sole authority for salvation.  Jesus is the sole authority.  He gave us His written Word, and his spoken Word.  Catholics believe both.  You only believe the written Word."

 

You and I both know that the main reason Roman Catholics refute Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone -- is because it supports Sola Fide, by faith alone; Sola Gratia, by grace alone; and, Solo Christo, through Christ alone.   And, because these are all true -- we declare Soli Deo Gloria. glory to God alone.

 

And, that supports Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

That means that we are saved by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- alone, plus no works, plus nothing else.  

 

Works, whether they be called Sacraments; whether it be a mandate to attend mass; whether it be infant baptism or any other baptism; whether it means declaring any man (except Christ) to be infallible and making him god on earth; whether it means following any of the thousands of man-created traditions, rituals, and dogmas -- these are all works and cannot save anyone.  NOT as a result of works -- means, NOT as a result of works, period!

 

Nathan, you declare, "The Bible is NOT the sole authority for salvation.  Jesus is the sole authority.  He gave us His written Word, and his spoken Word."

 

Jesus is the Living Word (Logos) of God -- and He gave us His Written Word (the Bible) of God.   What more could we possibly need to assure our salvation and our Christian walk -- than this?

 

Yet, the Roman Catholics have to add their Traditions, Dogmas, and Papal Writings on top of the Bible.  Do you really believe that God was not sufficient to give us His full revelation for salvation and Christian living?  Do you really believe that Christ's death on the cross was not sufficient to offer us salvation and full eternal life?

 

When Christ declared, "It is finished!  And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit" (John 19:30) -- He meant that His full work of salvation was finished.   There is nothing any man can add to what He has already done -- to offer all mankind forgiveness, salvation, and eternal life.  

 

Yet, Roman Catholics want to add Papal authority on top of Christ's authority -- even when the Pope himself does not even know if HE is saved.   How can a man who does not know if HE is saved -- offer salvation to you, or to anyone?

 

My Friend, if you truly want the "fullness of Truth" -- you will find it only in Jesus Christ and in His Written Word, the Bible.  Please lay aside all of your man generated writings, laws, traditions, rituals, robes, and teachings -- and rely solely upon Jesus Christ. 

 

Then, you will be able to truly declare:  Soli Deo Gloria. glory to God alone -- for, through Christ alone (Solo Christo), by grace alone (Sola Gratia), through faith alone (Sola Fide), as revealed in Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura) -- I have eternal life in Christ!

 

That is something the no church can give you; that is something no man, including the Pope, can give you.  That is something that Christ alone, Solo Christo, -- the Living Word and the Written Word -- can give you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

2 Timothy 3-16,17 - Canyon

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Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:

Good evening Bill,

You stated:  Anyone who brings a false, erroneous, or unBiblical teaching to the Religion Forum should be refuted.

 

And the most erroreous one is sola scripture, which, as many of us have shown, is un-biblical, as Scripture itself attests.  That is the source of so many of your errors.  That, and your lack of uynderstanding of Catholicism. 

 

The Bible is NOT the sole authority for salvation.  Jesus is the sole authority.  He gave us His written Word, and his spoken Word.  Catholics believe both.  You only believe the written Word.  That is why we as Catholics have the fullness of truth.  Gives you a much cleareer understanding of things.God bless!!

Nathan,

So you don’t have a problem with Jesus being hauled out West in a wagon by Mormons?

Good evening Bill,

You wrote “You and I both know that the main reason Roman Catholics refute Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone -- is because it supports Sola Fide, by faith alone; Sola Gratia, by grace alone; and, Solo Christo, through Christ alone. And, because these are all true -- we declare Soli Deo Gloria. glory to God alone.”

Actually, We as Catholics refute Sola Scripture because it is untrue and unbiblical.  I agree that glory is God’s alone, but I have refuted often enough, as have others, as to why Sola Scriptura is false.  Suffice it to say that Scripture itself tells us that it is false. 

 Christ’s death was indeed sufficient.  But as I have pointed out, many Catholics entered heaven long before there was a Bible.  The Bible is not necessary for salvation.  You rely on the Bible.  We rely on Jesus.

As for Papal authority, Christ founded a Church, the Catholic Church, and Christ gave it authority through Peter, and through his successors.  That is where you find the fullness of truth, as Scripture says, the pillar of Truth, the Church.  The Bible is part of the Word of God.  So is what Jesus taught.  We honor both.

And in disrespecting the Catholic Church, you disrespect the Bride of Christ.  Christ and the Catholic Church are one.  The two have become one flesh.  This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the Church, as St. Paul says in Ephesians 5.  You cannot separate the two.  They are one.  We are one. 

 

God bless!!

Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:

Good evening quaildog,

That is a whole separate issue.  I have many issues with Mormonism.  Many have been noted by others here.  Suffice it to say that, in my humble opinion, no angel appeared to Joseph Smith, nor did Christ.

 

God bless!!

Therefore your argument against sola scripture makes no sense. The Morman has as much proof of the wagon ride as you're argument of papal authority.

quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:
Actually, quaildog, we have more than Scripture on our side. We know that Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom, and we have an unbroken line from Peter to Benedict XVI.

Hi Nathan,

 

Please show us this line in the Bible, including Benedict.  As my grandfather in Alabama would have said, "If it ain't in the Bible; it ain't Truth!"

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Friends_Piggy

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And since when is truth confined to the Bible? Jesus is the truth! Salvation does not depend on a book! Any attempt to limit God to a book is ridiculous. God's grace is sufficient. Countless numbers of Christians died and went to heaven without ever hearing of the Bible, or reading the Bible. They, as we Catholics do, trust in Jesus. We honor and respect His Word in the bible, but there is SO much more to Jesus and His truth. His grace, His Sacraments, his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist! God bless!

Hi Nathan,

 

You disappoint me.  For a while it appeared that you were a knowledgeable person who can discuss the Bible and Roman Catholicism intelligently.  Now, you are beginning to sound more like my Friend Vic, i.e., "Forget the Bible -- just believe what I say!"  

 

My Friend, I stick with what I said -- "If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't Truth!"

 

So, you want us to believe the Pope, Rome, Papal writings -- but, when I ask about God's writing, the Bible -- forget about it!   Okay.

 

If we discard the Bible as the sole authority for God's teachings -- we may end up in Buddhism, Islam, Zen, or any of the other numerous world religions.   God set a standard; He gave us His standard -- and you want us to believe that the Pope's standard is equal or higher than God's standard?   Sorry, my Friend, but when you walk away from God's standard -- you are walking away from God and Christianity.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Good morning Bill, If the Bible is the sole authority, show me where it authorized Martin Luther to start his own church. Show me where it authorized the establishment of the Methodist church. Show me how thousands of Christians got to heaven before the bible existed. How did saint Stephen get to heaven? Jesus appeared to saint Francis of Assisi. In your world, none of these happened because "it ain't in the bible." The pope's standard IS God's standard. Jesus founded a Church and gave it a leader and gave him authority, to include the power over who enters heaven. Such is the meaning of the keys of the kingdom. As the bible itself says, it is not the sole authority. You conveniently neglect many verses of scripture, as we have repeatedly pointed out. And I'm still looking for your source of authority, in the bible, to interpret the bible, which came to you complements of the pope and the Catholic Church! God bless!
Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:
Actually, quaildog, we have more than Scripture on our side. We know that Jesus gave Peter the keys of the kingdom, and we have an unbroken line from Peter to Benedict XVI.

Mormans can make the same argument Nathan. Both far-fetched. Let us  say  for the moment the Pope has authority as you have described; could he not make things much easier on mankind by declareing  all sins forgiven  and legal for the immediate end of the Earth? I think realistically you are going to be forced to admit the Catholic church is as powerless as Bill's imagination gone wild when it comes to fabrication of ideas God not privy to.

Hi Nathan,

 

You will find my rebuttal of those claims in my new post titled "Did God Inspire The Bible -- Or Did The Pope?"  I am sure you will have comments since the Papal authority has you blinded to Biblical truths.   But, that is what makes for good discussions which should be profitable for you, me, and all of our Friends who read our dialogues.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Good evening quaildog, I'm not sure I follow your thought on this. Sins are forgiven when the person seeking forgiveness asks for forgiveness, with true contrition. As Catholics,all of our beliefs are from God, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Far from ring powerless, the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ. We are the church founded by Christ. God bless!!
quote:   Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:
Good evening quaildog, I'm not sure I follow your thought on this.  Sins are forgiven when the person seeking forgiveness asks for forgiveness, with true contrition.  As Catholics, all of our beliefs are from God, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  Far from ring powerless, the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ.  We are the church founded by Christ. God bless!!

Hi Nathan,

 

So, when you say that "the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ" -- where does that leave Protestant believers?  Are we not part of His church, the worldwide body of believers?   Are you telling us that ONLY ROMAN CATHOLICS will be saved?  I thought that erroneous teaching was kicked out by the Vatican decades ago.  Are YOU reviving the teaching that the ONLY way I can be saved is to become a Roman Catholic?

 

Can you show us this in the Bible?

 

How does that relate to John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

 

And, can you show us how that ONLY Roman Catholics are saved fits into Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; NOT as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

You say, "As Catholics, all of our beliefs are from God."

 

Then, why are they found ONLY in the apocrypha, traditions, and in Vatican writings?  Why are they NOT found in the Bible -- since the Bible is the full revelation of God to man, fully sufficient for salvation and for Christian living?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Good evening Bill,

You said:  "So, when you say that "the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ" -- where does that leave Protestant believers?  Are we not part of His church, the worldwide body of believers?   Are you telling us that ONLY ROMAN CATHOLICS will be saved?  I thought that erroneous teaching was kicked out by the Vatican decades ago.  Are YOU reviving the teaching that the ONLY way I can be saved is to become a Roman Catholic?"

 

I did not say that, and you intentionally twist my words to try to make them say something that I clearly did not say.  I did not say that only Catholics will be saved.  But the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ.   How Protestant believers are saved, I do not know. 

 

You also said:  "Then, why are they found ONLY in the apocrypha, traditions, and in Vatican writings?  Why are they NOT found in the Bible -- since the Bible is the full revelation of God to man, fully sufficient for salvation and for Christian living?" 

 

As noted repeatedly, the Bible is NOT the full revelation of God.  How is it that you fail to understand the Bible, when it says to follwo what Jesus taught, whether ortally or in writing?  How do you fail to understand that if everything that Jesus did was written, the entire world could not contain all the books? 

quote:   Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:

Good evening Bill,  You said: 

 

"So, when you say that "the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ" -- where does that leave Protestant believers?   Are we not part of His church, the worldwide body of believers?   Are you telling us that ONLY ROMAN CATHOLICS will be saved?  I thought that erroneous teaching was kicked out by the Vatican decades ago.  Are YOU reviving the teaching that the ONLY way I can be saved is to become a Roman Catholic?"

 

I did not say that, and you intentionally twist my words to try to make them say something that I clearly did not say.  I did not say that only Catholics will be saved.  But the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ.   How Protestant believers are saved, I do not know.

Hi Nathan,

 

You most certainly did say that, for I copied it directly from your comment.  But, to clear the air -- I will once more copy/paste your full comment to Quaildog:

 

Good evening quaildog, I'm not sure I follow your thought on this.  Sins are forgiven when the person seeking forgiveness asks for forgiveness, with true contrition.  As Catholics, all of our beliefs are from God, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  Far from ring powerless, the Catholic Church is the bride of Christ.  We are the church founded by Christ. God bless!!

 

So, please show us where in the Bible it tells us that ONLY Roman Catholics are the Bride of Christ.

 

Jesus tells us that those who believe in His name become children of God (John 1:12).

 

Revelation 19:7-8, "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.  (8) It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

 

The "saints" are the Bride of Christ, the worldwide body of believers.  Starting from the time Christ resurrected and led the captives (Old Testament believers) from Hades/Paradise into heaven (Ephesians 4:8) -- and until He returns to Rapture His church from the world -- is the Bride of Christ.

 

Are Roman Catholics included in the Bride of Christ?  Yes, IF they have become born-again Christian believers (John 3:3).  It does not matter which church a person attends or where he/she worships.  The only thing which matters, and which determines if a person is saved and will spend eternity in heaven with God -- is, "Do you have a saving personal relationship with Jesus Christ?"

 

Christ will NOT look at which church building or organization you attend.  He will look at your heart.  If you have Christ in your heart -- you are saved.  If you do not have Christ in your heart -- you are not saved.  Simple as that!

 

1 John 5:12, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."

 

John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the WAY, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."

John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."

 

Nathan, you tell me, "But the Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ.   How Protestant believers are saved, I do not know."

 

The Scripture above tells us how Protestants and Roman Catholics alike are saved.  This might not agree with what the Vatican tells you.  But, it is what the God in His Bible tells us all.  I will put my faith in God and His Bible, not in the Vatican and men. 

 

How about you?  Who do you put your faith in to gain eternal life and salvation -- God or the Vatican?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Acts 2-42 - CICF Church

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Good afternoon Bill,

You neglect a few other verses, such as unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you.  You have to consider all that Jesus said and taught, not just a few verses.  you have bits of the truth, not the fullness of truth.

Asfor being the Bride of Christ, when St. Paul wrote that, there was only one Church, the Catholic church.  No other Church existed, and so any church that has separated itself from the Catholic Church can no longer claim to be the Bride of Christ. 

It appears to me that you trust the Bible rather than God.  God is not bound  or limited by the bible.  the Bible is not the complete story, or the full revelation.  That is found in the Catholic Church, prserved by the Pope and Bishops.  I trust Jesus AND His Bride!!  The two have become one flesh, but this is a great mystery.

 

God bless!!

Hi Nathan,

 

How could Paul have written about the Roman Catholic church in the 1st time that he lived -- when that church did not exist until about 312 AD?

 

You conveniently forget, selective memory I suppose -- that "catholic" means universal -- not Roman Catholic or Papal Catholic.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Nathan,

 

How could Paul have written about the Roman Catholic church in the 1st time that he lived -- when that church did not exist until about 312 AD?

 

You are Bible stupid billie, and you're history stupid as well.

Show me in the Bible that the catholic church was started in 312 AD

 

Paul wrote for the Catholic Church, I Can show you in the Bible when

Jesus created the Catholic Church.

You can't show me anywhere in the Bible that Jesus didn't create the

Catholic church

 

You conveniently forget, selective memory I suppose -- that "catholic" means universal -- not Roman Catholic or Papal Catholic.

 

I can ask anybody where there might be a Catholic Church and they

could tell me.

I could ask any knowing person if they are Catholic and they will say

"yes or no" and might even tell me what denomination they are with.

 

The word or title catholic said to anyone when speaking of religion

is understood by anyone.

You didn't forget that you just can't accept the truth or the facts.

 

You're just a very old and full of hate cry baby. And a very bad liar.

 

 

 

i am wondering... if Catholics believe that they are the Bride of Christ (and i didn't know they had that belief), does that mean they also believe one must be Catholic to enter heaven? i grew up in a church that believed nobody else would be in heaven, so i am truly interested in your beliefs concerning that.

also, are there other kinds of Catholics besides Roman? if so, what would be the difference in their beliefs? the church i grew up in split into 2 definitely separate belief groups, and denied each other as the true church. 

just trying to learn about the faith you embrace.

thx, hg<>< 

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

I asked Nathan the same question.  And, his answer was that the Roman Catholic church is the Bride of Christ -- and that he does not know how Protestants are saved.

 

This sounds to me like the Roman Catholic church is reverting to its old teachings that only Roman Catholics are saved and that it is a sin to even go into a Protestant church.  The Roman Catholic church changed that teaching decades ago -- but, it seems that our Forum Roman Catholic Friends are still in the old Roman Catholic church.

 

Confusion such as that occurs sometimes when we find converts to Roman Catholicism -- which VP and Vic have said they are, and O No tells us she is in the process of climbing over that wall.   Many times, converts seem to become more fanatical in the defense of their new faith -- most often because, if we can prove their new faith to be wrong -- then, that means they made a mistake in converting.  And, most folks do not like to admit they made a mistake -- especially in religion.

 

Nathan, on the other hand, seems to be a person who has grown up in Roman Catholicism.   And, overall, he is much less argumentative, and more civil, than our convert Friends.  Yet, it is Nathan who has raised this ghost from the past -- that only Roman Catholics are saved.

 

However, I can tell our Friend, Nathan, how both a Roman Catholic and a Protestant are saved:

 

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said to him, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.' "

 

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; NOT as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

 

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law."

Romans 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness."

Romans 4:16, "For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."

Romans 5:1, "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

So, how is anyone -- Protestant or Roman Catholic -- saved?  "By the GRACE of God -- you have been saved through FAITH -- alone!"

 

No one is saved by or through a church.  No one is saved by or through a pastor, priest, or pope.  One is saved ONLY by having a "personal, saving relationship" with Jesus Christ -- the ONLY WAY to eternal life with God.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 John 5-12 - Bible Inspired By God

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