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Mormon Heavens And Biblical Heavens - The Differences

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion which I began titled "Rain - Or No Rain - Before The Flood?" -- my Friend, FirenzeVeritas, asked, "I'm not familiar  with Mormon theology on "Heavens," but I understand well into the middle ages people recognized three kinds of heavens, not having  a better word.  The first heaven was our atmosphere (where birds fly), the second was outer space (where stars resided), and the  third heaven was where God lived.  Is this something that Skippy has referred to?"

The apostle Paul does tell us in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I do not  know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows -- such a man was caught up to the third heaven.   And I know how such a man  -- whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows -- was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible  words, which a man is not permitted to speak."

As I have pointed out in several previous writings, the most recent being "Purgatory And Hell - Biblical Or Not?" -- that Paradise was  once a part of Hades, i.e., Hades/Paradise/Bosom of Abraham.  We read about Paradise, or the Bosom of Abraham, in Luke  16:19-31, the story of Lazarus and the rich man.  When Jesus resurrected and led the captives free -- all believers, Old Testament,   early New Testament, and the thief on the cross -- (Ephesians 4:8), and Paradise was moved into heaven. 

Paradise is now a part of  the heaven where God dwells, i.e., the third heaven, the throne room of God.  This had to be for, as we are told in John 14:6, ". . . no  one comes to the Father, but through Me."   So, all believers had to wait in Paradise, the Bosom of Abraham, until Jesus finished  His work of salvation on the cross and was resurrected.  Upon His resurrection, all the saints in Paradise went into heaven through  Jesus Christ.

In Hebrews 4:14 we read, "Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God,  let us hold fast our confession."

From this Scripture verse in Hebrews we know there are multiple heavens.  And, since 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 tells us that God resides  in the third heaven -- we know there must be only three heavens.  For, we know that there will be no heaven higher or greater than  the heaven where God has His throne room.

What are the other two heavens?  Well, the Bible gives us pretty good clues:

Genesis 1:20, "Then God said, 'Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open  expanse of the heavens.'"  Birds are flying in the first heaven, i.e., the air, our atmosphere.

Genesis 1:14-15, "Then God said, 'Let there be lights (sun, moon, stars) in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth;' and it was so."   Space is the second heaven.

From this we can say that the first heaven is our immediate atmosphere; the second heaven is space, and the third heaven is the  home of God.   Firenze, that is the Biblical view of heaven and the three heavens.

Now, let's take a look at the Mormon view of the heavens.  The information below comes from the web site of a non-denominational  Christian church thriving in the heart of Mormon country, Utah.  But, before you read any further, I encourage you to visit the  "Statement of Faith & What We Believe" page of this church's web site.  This is a solid Statement of Faith.

Statement of Faith & What We Believe:    http://www.mscbc.org/statfaith.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Main Street Church of Brigham City:    http://www.mscbc.org/church/index.htm

We are a Bible-based, non-denominational church in Brigham City, Utah, that seeks to be a "church home" for any follower of Jesus  Christ or anyone seeking to learn more about Him!

WHAT ABOUT THE "THREE HEAVENS" OF MORMONISM?
 http://www.mscbc.org/faq_chr.htm

Mormonism teaches three heavens, the Celestial, the Terrestrial, and the Telestial.  The Celestial heaven is the highest, and it is itself divided into three levels, the highest being (the) achieving (of) Godhood (for all worthy Mormon men).  Only worthy Mormons are  allowed into the Celestial Kingdom, those who have embraced and lived out the precepts of Mormonism.  [Some allowance is made  for those who never had an opportunity to hear about Mormonism in earthly life, but have an opportunity to accept it and prove  themselves worthy in the hereafter; see "Baptism of the Dead" (the same web page - http://www.mscbc.org/faq_chr.htm )]

The Terrestrial Kingdom is reserved for those good and decent people who nonetheless rejected the Mormon gospel; and the  Telestial Kingdom is for those who are wicked.

Little is taught about the exact nature of the lower levels of Heaven, but in general, they are viewed as varying degrees of paradise,  but not nearly on the same level as the Celestial.  Heavenly Father is the ruler of the Celestial -- Jesus of the Terrestrial -- and the  Holy Ghost oversees the Telestial.

Also, little is taught about how "good" is good enough for the Terrestrial Kingdom, or how "wicked" one has to be for the Telestial  Kingdom; it is presumed that God is the arbiter in this case.

Mormonism also teaches about a place called “Outer Darkness” which is the Christian equivalent of “Hell” -- and is reserved only for  the truly despicable of the world -- the Hitlers, for example -- and those who apostatize from (leave) the Mormon Church.

There are a number of other elements to the Mormon concept of afterlife and its cosmology in general; it can seem rather confusing  -- because it is -- and is difficult to sum up in a single paragraph!  In fact, there is often disagreement among Mormons as to the  exact nature of Mormon cosmology.  However, the above is a fairly simplified reduction of how it has been taught from official  sources. 

 

Click here ( http://www.mscbc.org/afterlife.htm ) for a graphic illustration and a more thorough explanation of the Mormon concept of the afterlife.

The Mormon Plan of Salvation / Eternal Progression:    http://www.mscbc.org/afterlife.htm

 

Note:  The parenthetical emphasis in the excerpts above are mine.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

For more information on the Mormon (LDS) church and its teachings, read the article written by Ed Decker, "MORMONISM:  CHRISTIAN OR CULT?" at:   

 

http://www.ericbarger.com/arti...m_christ_or_cult.htm

About Ed Decker:   http://www.olivetreeviewsshop.....php?productid=17579

Ed Decker is the International Director of Saints Alive in Jesus, a ministry that actively brings the gospel of grace to those lost in the  darkness of cultic bondage.  He is a former Mormon who spent twenty years of his adult life as a member of the Latter Day Saints  (LDS) Church before becoming a Christian.  He was a member of the "Holy Melchizedek" priesthood, a "Temple Mormon" and active  in leadership in local LDS churches.  Ed has spent the next 30 years researching and writing about Mormonism.

I pray that this information gives you a clearer understanding of some of the differences between Biblical Christianity and the Mormon  (Latter-day Saints) church.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Original Post

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Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Quote:   Originally Posted by skippy delepepper:

Hi all,

 

I am just curious. Who the heck is he reffering to Windsong or Skippy?  Is Billy really this dense to continue to think that we are one person? No rain or seas hummm.   The One and Only,  Skippy[/quote]

Hi Dwight/Skippy,

 

Thank you for proving my point about Mormon Evangelism.  If our Forum Friends will notice, old Dwight/Skippy DID NOT address a single issue raised in my post.  Instead, he began his familiar old "Mormon Two Step" dancing all around -- but NEVER addressing the issues.

 

You ask who I am addressing with the name Dwight/Skippy?  I am addressing the one person who always misspells the same words, who always make the same punctuation mistakes, who always types in the same sloppy style, using all bold, colored text -- and who always dances (Mormon Two Step) around the issues -- instead of directly answering any questions which I, or any other member, may ask of him.  That is the dear sweet Forum Friend i am addressing.

 

So, my dear Friend, what do you have to say about the real issue of my post -- Mormon heavens versus Christian heavens?

 

And, of course, we will all be interested in reading your comments on Ed Decker's article "Mormonism:  Christian or Cult?" --especially considering that Ed Decker is a former Mormon who spent twenty years of his adult life as a member of the Latter Day Saints  (LDS) Church before becoming a Christian.  He was a member of the "Holy Melchizedek" priesthood, a "Temple Mormon" and active in leadership in local LDS churches.  Ed has spent the next 30 years researching and writing about Mormonism.

 

My Friend, what say you about these issues and questions?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Last edited by Bill Gray
WINDSONGWINDSONGHall of Famer


Hey Skippy, Nimrod still thinks we are one person! This old fool wants answers but won't say who he wants to answer, me or you. Hows Utah? I planted 6 gardens and my beans are already 4 inches high!  I really am thankfull to my Heavenly Father for allowing me to be born in the last dispensation where He has restored true Christian doctrine through Joseph Smith. Do you know how blessed we are not to have been blinded and fooled by people like those in here that think they know it all? We are so blessed to have Gods Priesthood power to enable us to bless others lives! We are truely blessed!

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi Dwight and Skippy,

 

Thank you!  While you were busy calling me names -- I have made my point regarding the Mormon heavens versus the Biblical heavens for all our Forum Friends to read.  And, since you have no rebuttal; it is obvious to everyone that what I wrote is correct.

 

Again, thank you.  And, please DO spend your time calling me names -- instead of writing your Mormon cult rhetoric on the Religion Forum.  That is a small price for me to pay to make sure that our Friends read the truth about Christianity and the Mormon religion.

 

You see, every question that I, or another Christian, asks you that you do not answer honestly -- is one more home run on the scoreboard for Biblical Christianity.   Please, keep up the good work -- by all means, PLEASE, DO NOT answer any questions.  That makes our task of sharing the truth so much easier.

 

But, on the other hand, every question which you DO answer correctly -- is also a score for Biblical Christian faith.  For hearing honest answers regarding the Mormon religion will show, beyond all doubt, that it is a cult religion.

 

You might say this is a WIN-WIN situation for Biblical Christian faith -- and a LOSE-LOSE situation for the Mormon religion.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

bluetickbluetickOld Faithful

What is a cult religion? Is it a bad thing? Aren't all religions a cult? Why is the sky blue? Can I have a dollar? Mommy is that you? Why do people who believe in the same thing fight each other over it? What time is it?  Why do fools fall in love? Why do birds sing? Who wrote the book of love?

 

What a waste. No one answers questions here.

WINDSONGWINDSONGHall of Famer

 I dont pay any creedence to Bils rambelings or Beternu who is still here under another name, upside something or the other. His name is Crawford and I have heard he makes a big fool of himself at the town meetings. There are more than 2 people that misspell things, usually because they were hooked on fonix babies. Skippy is a guy living in Hurricane Utah named Gorden. I was living in Cherokee Al but moved to Savannah Ga. I am Dwight.  The reason many dont understand mine and Skippys answers and get confused, is because they think we are the same oerson. Thinking that, I can see how things seem so confusing. At times it even can seem as if we are conterdicting ourselfs.

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dwight and Skippy,   Thank you!  While you were busy calling me names -- I have made my point regarding the Mormon heavens versus the Biblical heavens for all our Forum Friends to read.  And, since you have no rebuttal; it is obvious to everyone that what I wrote is correct.

And you know this how?

Hi Chick,

 

That is the easiest question you have ever asked.   The answer:  THE BIBLE

 

Yes, the Bible tells us how to recognize false teachers and religions -- and, it teaches us how to easily recognize a cult church or religion.   Chick, you really should get to know God and His Bible better.  You will be amazed at what a difference He can make in your life if you will sincerely turn to follow Him.

 

But, in the meantime, I truly do appreciate the fact that you and O No are such dedicated disciples of Bill Gray that you hang on every word I write.   Who knows, maybe some small seed of salvation just might find that wee bit of fertile soil which God has placed within you.  And, viola! -- eternal life for two more Friends.   What a blessing!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Dwight and Skippy,   Thank you!  While you were busy calling me names -- I have made my point regarding the Mormon heavens versus the Biblical heavens for all our Forum Friends to read.  And, since you have no rebuttal; it is obvious to everyone that what I wrote is correct.

And you know this how?

 Hi Chick,

 

That is the easiest question you have ever asked.   The answer:  THE BIBLE

 

Yes, the Bible tells us how to recognize false teachers and religions -- and, it teaches us how to easily recognize a cult church or religion.   Chick, you really should get to know God and His Bible better.  You will be amazed at what a difference He can make in your life if you will sincerely turn to follow Him.

 

But, in the meantime, I truly do appreciate the fact that you and O No are such dedicated disciples of Bill Gray that you hang on every word I write.   Who knows, maybe some small seed of salvation just might find that wee bit of fertile soil which God has placed within you.  And, viola! -- eternal life for two more Friends.   What a blessing!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

What is a cult religion? Is it a bad thing? Aren't all religions a cult? Why is the sky blue? Can I have a dollar? Mommy is that you? Why do people who believe in the same thing fight each other over it? What time is it?  Why do fools fall in love? Why do birds sing? Who wrote the book of love?   What a waste. No one answers questions here.

Hi Blue,

 

What is a cult religion?  It is one which teaches a different God, a different Jesus Christ, than those taught in God's Written Word, the Bible.  The cults typically come up with their own bible, i.e., Al Willilams has his  New Age Urantia Book bible; the Mormons have their Book of Mormon; the Jehovah's Witnesses have their New World Translation bible where they have changed Scripture verses to make it fit their cult religion.

 

A true Christian church will teach the Essential Christian Beliefs, i.e., the Trinity; the deity of Jesus Christ; the Bible as the inspired Written Word of God; the Gospel of Jesus Christ (His birth, death, resurrection, and ascension to buy our pardon and to assure our eternal life); salvation by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ; and that heaven and hell are real places and the only two eternal destinations for all mankind.

 

Any church which teaches any of these differently is a cult church.   You ask, "Aren't all religions cults?"   Christianity is a sect; but, not a cult.  Regarding the world religions; I would call them false religions -- for they have not set out to purposely deceive people.  Yet, they do follow false religions.  So, in that sense, they are cults also.

 

On the other hand, the ones who purposely set out to deceive people and to lure people, through deception, into their lairs, their cult religions -- I do absolutely call cults.  This group includes the New Age religions, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormons.

 

The big difference between Christianity and the religions is that the religions are based upon -- besides many of them having false teachings -- man-made traditions, rituals, etc.   Christianity has a very personal God; the religions such as Islam, Hinduism, etc., do not have a personal God --  but, at best, a very impersonal God such as the Allah of Islam.  The Qur'an teaches that their God, Allah, is very impersonal, very distant.

 

With Christianity, we each have a very personal, very close relationship with Jesus Christ.  This is emphasized in Revelation 3:20, when Jesus Christ tells us, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone (ANYONE) hears My voice and opens the door (of your heart), I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me."

 

In the Jewish Hebrew culture of Jesus' day, the most intimate thing a person could do with friends was to eat with them.  So, when Jesus Christ invites people to dine with Him -- He is asking us to be His very personal, very intimate Friends.   No god in any other religion has this kind of close, personal relationship.  And, that is the huge difference between Christianity and all the world religions and false, cult churches.

 

I pray that I have answered your question sufficiently.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful

Hi all,

 

Please forgive my double post in my reply to Chick.  I have tried to delete one and to correct the other.  But, for some reason, the new forum software will not allow me to edit these two messages.  I have no idea why -- but, this is true.  I can edit other messages I have posted; but, these two are locked.  Possibly, when I went into the html coding to make Chick's name a normal font size, I messed up some other code.  That is the pitfall when playing with html coding when I am far from being an expert.  So, I am sorry for the double post.  If I could delete one or both, I would.

 

And, O No, before you jump on this with both feet, yelling, "See, I told you that you can make large font!" -- no, I have not figured out how to do that.  And, I see no reason to do it.   However, the normal size font when made BOLD TYPE does give the appearance of being larger font.  But, it is not.   THIS and this are the same font size.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

That is the easiest question you have ever asked.   The answer:  THE BIBLE

Yes, the Bible tells us how to recognize false teachers and religions -- and, it teaches us how to easily recognize a cult church or religion.   Chick, you really should get to know God and His Bible better.  You will be amazed at what a difference He can make in your life if you will sincerely turn to follow Him.

But, in the meantime, I truly do appreciate the fact that you and O No are such dedicated disciples of Bill Gray that you hang on every word I write.   Who knows, maybe some small seed of salvation just might find that wee bit of fertile soil which God has placed within you.  And, viola! -- eternal life for two more Friends.   What a blessing!

Bill

 

Bill, those people that YOU say belong to a cult may believe that your Bible is the wrong one. There will be ONE judgment & it ain't yours to make! I don't agree with the Mormon belief but it's not my place to judge them. You have them going to Hell in a hand basket but it's not your call to make. I am of the opinion that YOU won't make it to Heaven, but it's not my call to make.

I'm sick & tired of your saying that I don't know God or the Bible. According to your Once Saved Always Saved theory, I'm going to Heaven just as you believe you are. YOU are the last person that would ever plant any kind of positive seed within me.

If you get a feel good high to believe that I am a dedicated disciple of YOU, then you stay high. That comment tells me exactly what a nutcase you really are! I'm surprised you even admitted it.

I don't hang onto your every word. The arrogant audacity you have simply amazes me.

Oh, BTW, Bill, you can take your blessing & shove it where the sun don't shine!

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:
Thank you for your answer, Bill.  I know this will sound smart allecky and I don't mean it that way.  Is there only one true church?

Hi Blue,

Yes, there is only one true church.  But, it is not a denominational church; it is the worldwide body of Christian believers.  The true  church is not an organization, not a building, not a denomination -- it is all Christian believers, around the world, combined into one  body, the family of God.

The Christian church began on the Day of Pentecost, 33 AD, just fifty days after Christ rose, resurrected, from the grave.  He  showed Himself to His disciples, over 500 of them (1 Corinthians 15:1-11), for 40 days (Acts 1:3).  Then, He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:6-11) telling his disciples to stay in Jerusalem and wait for the what the Father had promised.  What was this promise?  It  was the first indwelling of the Holy Spirit to live within the Christian believers (John 14:16).

One hundred and twenty disciples, which included the apostles and Mary, the mother of Jesus, stayed in the Upper Room, where  they had eaten the Last Supper, for ten days, in fellowship and in prayer.  On the 50th day from His resurrection, the Day of  Pentecost (meaning 50) -- the Holy Spirit came upon those 120 in the Upper Room (Acts 2:1-13).  After this Peter and the other  apostles went out and told the gathering crowd, who were drawn there by the noise of the Holy Spirit coming, about Jesus Christ and  salvation.

That day, 3000 people confessed Jesus Christ and became Christian believers.  A few days later, the apostles preached again, and  another 4000 joined the family of God, the Christian church.  So, within a week, the church, the body of Christ, grew to over 7120  believers.  This was the beginning of the church.  Today, there are billions who are members of the body of Christ, the Christian  church.

What Scripture tells us this?

1 Corinthians 12:12-14, "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are  many, are one body, so also is Christ.  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether  slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.  For the body is not one member, but many."

1 Corinthians 12:27, "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. "

Ephesians 4:11-13, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and  teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity  of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness  of Christ."

Ephesians 5:23, "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of  the body."

Blue, that was not a "smart allecky" question.  It was a very valid, very insightful question.  Thank you so much for asking it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

CrustyMacCrustyMacOld Faithful
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Chick,

 

That is the easiest question you have ever asked.   The answer:  THE BIBLE

 

Yes, the Bible tells us how to recognize false teachers and religions -- and, it teaches us how to easily recognize a cult church or religion.   Chick, you really should get to know God and His Bible better.  You will be amazed at what a difference He can make in your life if you will sincerely turn to follow Him.

 

But, in the meantime, I truly do appreciate the fact that you and O No are such dedicated disciples of Bill Gray that you hang on every word I write.   Who knows, maybe some small seed of salvation just might find that wee bit of fertile soil which God has placed within you.  And, viola! -- eternal life for two more Friends.   What a blessing!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 __________________

 

There you have it Semi.  Your ticket to Hell has been punched.  Pack up and board the train.

 

 

bluetickbluetickOld Faithful

Thanks again Bill.

Now, this is just my personal observation, but Bill has pretty much answered every question I have asked him. The best I can remember, the only time he hasn't was when I was attacking him about the false teaching thing. I doubt I would answer under the same circumstances. I also doubt that Bill and I will ever agree about religion but, he remains civil much more than I would be able to under the constant beatings we give him. You got to admit, he is probably the most beat up guy on this forum. He does have some good qualities.

And, no Bill, you can't have my Bud lite.

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote: Originally Posted by Jennifer:
Tick, when I ask bill a question I want a "bill answer" and all I get is a post full of bible quotes. Getting bill to answer why he has  certain prejudices or ideas is just impossible and he retreats to his overused "you're attacking my family" line.

Hi Jennifer,

How can anyone answer questions about God, Jesus Christ, and our Christian faith -- without quoting the Bible?  When you ask a question about one of these -- if I told you only what Bill Gray believes, that is no proof.  However, if I tell you what God, in the Bible, tells us -- that is proof, divine proof.

Which do you prefer -- a Bill Gray answer, or a God answer?  So, because I like and respect you, I give you the most dependable answer -- a God answer -- straight from His Written Word, the Bible.  How can you complain about that?

You say I have prejudices.  Why?  Because I point out the differences between what our Mormon Friends tell us and what the Bible tells us?  Because I point out the differences between what our Roman Catholic Friends tell us and what the Bible tells us?

Because I point out the differences between what Darwin/Dawkins/Hitchens, et al, tells us -- and what the Bible tells us?  How is  this being prejudiced?  This is only sharing the Biblical truth.   If that bothers you; maybe you need a good dose of Bible truths to help you overcome your internal congestion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

WINDSONGWINDSONGHall of Famer
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally Posted by bluetick:

What is a cult religion? Is it a bad thing? Aren't all religions a cult? Why is the sky blue? Can I have a dollar? Mommy is that you? Why do people who believe in the same thing fight each other over it? What time is it?  Why do fools fall in love? Why do birds sing? Who wrote the book of love?   What a waste. No one answers questions here.

Hi Blue,

 

What is a cult religion?  It is one which teaches a different God, a different Jesus Christ, than those taught in God's Written Word, the Bible.  The cults typically come up with their own bible, i.e., Al Willilams has his  New Age Urantia Book bible; the Mormons have their Book of Mormon; the Jehovah's Witnesses have their New World Translation bible where they have changed Scripture verses to make it fit their cult religion.

 

A true Christian church will teach the Essential Christian Beliefs, i.e., the Trinity; the deity of Jesus Christ; the Bible as the inspired Written Word of God; the Gospel of Jesus Christ (His birth, death, resurrection, and ascension to buy our pardon and to assure our eternal life); salvation by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ; and that heaven and hell are real places and the only two eternal destinations for all mankind.

 

Any church which teaches any of these differently is a cult church.   You ask, "Aren't all religions cults?"   Christianity is a sect; but, not a cult.  Regarding the world religions; I would call them false religions -- for they have not set out to purposely deceive people.  Yet, they do follow false religions.  So, in that sense, they are cults also.

 

On the other hand, the ones who purposely set out to deceive people and to lure people, through deception, into their lairs, their cult religions -- I do absolutely call cults.  This group includes the New Age religions, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormons.

 

The big difference between Christianity and the religions is that the religions are based upon -- besides many of them having false teachings -- man-made traditions, rituals, etc.   Christianity has a very personal God; the religions such as Islam, Hinduism, etc., do not have a personal God --  but, at best, a very impersonal God such as the Allah of Islam.  The Qur'an teaches that their God, Allah, is very impersonal, very distant.

 

With Christianity, we each have a very personal, very close relationship with Jesus Christ.  This is emphasized in Revelation 3:20, when Jesus Christ tells us, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone (ANYONE) hears My voice and opens the door (of your heart), I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me."

 

In the Jewish Hebrew culture of Jesus' day, the most intimate thing a person could do with friends was to eat with them.  So, when Jesus Christ invites people to dine with Him -- He is asking us to be His very personal, very intimate Friends.   No god in any other religion has this kind of close, personal relationship.  And, that is the huge difference between Christianity and all the world religions and false, cult churches.

 

I pray that I have answered your question sufficiently.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill, if i'm understanding you right, If a religion has their "OWN BOOK", they are a cult. I just read that in 1909     A commity of "LEARNED MEN"  got together that are FUNDAMENTALEST like you and your religion, and wrote 12 books defining and explaining the Bible. These 12 books are the basis of the "WORD" you have been spouting off about in here. Later these books were revised down to just 4  books. So they removed some of "THE WORD".

If you believe the Bible to be the ONLY word of God, why did you all need 12 more books to explain Gods word? And , with those 12 books, that puts you guys right in there with the CULTS. And, you guys teach from them and not Just the Bible.

    Now, if you blow this off by saying the 12 books only explain and make it easier to understand the Bible so they are ok, Whats wrong with me saying the same sbout the Book of Mormon which IS a second witness to the one and only Savior JESUS CHRIST?

 

By the way , the name of the 12 books is "THE FUNDAMENTALS".

Now if I'm correct, the link to the weird writings in those 12 books is , www.xmission.com/~fidelis

Dwight    odd doctrine folks

Last edited by WINDSONG
semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jennifer,
How can anyone answer questions about God, Jesus Christ, and our Christian faith -- without quoting the Bible?  When you ask a question about one of these -- if I told you only what Bill Gray believes, that is no proof.  However, if I tell you what God, in the Bible, tells us -- that is proof, divine proof.
Which do you prefer -- a Bill Gray answer, or a God answer?  So, because I like and respect you, I give you the most dependable answer -- a God answer -- straight from His Written Word, the Bible.  How can you complain about that?
Bill

It's proof only as how YOU SEE IT.

JenniferJenniferOld Faithful

I don't ask you questions about the bible bill. I know all I need/want to know about that work of fiction. I ask you questions about your thoughts. For instance, how you can attack others and show your prejudice but whine if you think someone has done the same to you. I ask you why you think you should be immune to (supposed)"attacks" when you have zero problems attacking others. I ask you how you would react in certain situations. Those are not questions that require a long page full of bible quotes. Those are questions that I ask to see how you, in your mind, justify your thoughts. Apparently you can't have  a thought without running to the bible to make sure it's OK. That is not what I would call "freewill", it's just sad.

Road PuppyRoad PuppyOld Faithful
JPGOriginally Posted by Jennifer:

I don't ask you questions about the bible bill. I know all I need/want to know about that work of fiction. I ask you questions about your thoughts. For instance, how you can attack others and show your prejudice but whine if you think someone has done the same to you. I ask you why you think you should be immune to (supposed)"attacks" when you have zero problems attacking others. I ask you how you would react in certain situations. Those are not questions that require a long page full of bible quotes. Those are questions that I ask to see how you, in your mind, justify your thoughts. Apparently you can't have  a thought without running to the bible to make sure it's OK. That is not what I would call "freewill", it's just sad.

Yup. I've been saying that since I met his online persona in '09. He wears the fact that he doesn't have an original thought in his head like a badge.

 

Just goes to prove my point.

 

 


 

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