I am new to this forum, well I signed up in November and I'm still a "new kid on the block" but I am not some FNG in the Peace Making Business. No excuse for not jumping in with both feet, but I was, Like the US armed forces, Occupied elsewhere.

I want to cause some thought. What do YOU think the Noble Cause is? Is there some other, not so Noble cause in Iraq? What EXACTLY is the meaning of "The War on terror in Iraq?" Are we fighting terrorism at all? Is the battle strategy effective, wise, well planned, excessive or justifiable?

ONE-TWO-THRE-FOUR WHAT THE HELL ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Original Post
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
I am new to this forum, well I signed up in November and I'm still a "new kid on the block" but I am not some FNG in the Peace Making Business. No excuse for not jumping in with both feet, but I was, Like the US armed forces, Occupied elsewhere.

I want to cause some thought. What do YOU think the Noble Cause is? Is there some other, not so Noble cause in Iraq? What EXACTLY is the meaning of "The War on terror in Iraq?" Are we fighting terrorism at all? Is the battle strategy effective, wise, well planned, excessive or justifiable?

ONE-TWO-THRE-FOUR WHAT THE HELL ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?



NOBLE?????? *rolls on the floor laughing hysterically*... Noble, Bush/Cheney NOBLE? LOL LOL LOL!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
I am new to this forum, well I signed up in November and I'm still a "new kid on the block" but I am not some FNG in the Peace Making Business. No excuse for not jumping in with both feet, but I was, Like the US armed forces, Occupied elsewhere.

I want to cause some thought. What do YOU think the Noble Cause is? Is there some other, not so Noble cause in Iraq? What EXACTLY is the meaning of "The War on terror in Iraq?" Are we fighting terrorism at all? Is the battle strategy effective, wise, well planned, excessive or justifiable?

ONE-TWO-THRE-FOUR WHAT THE HELL ARE WE FIGHTING FOR?



NOBLE?????? *rolls on the floor laughing hysterically*... Noble, Bush/Cheney NOBLE? LOL LOL LOL!!!!!



Well, lets see, we went in there 20 years too late,
started crap,
tried leaders on war crimes,
hanged them,
lost over 3000 of our boys/girls,
injured over 23,000 more,
gouged the price of gas and oil,
put out nearly a billion dollars a day for this "effort".......
Nobility, nope, I don't see it no where.
quote:
Well, lets see, we went in there 20 years too late,
started crap,
tried leaders on war crimes,
hanged them,
lost over 3000 of our boys/girls,
injured over 23,000 more,
gouged the price of gas and oil,
put out nearly a billion dollars a day for this "effort".......
Nobility, nope, I don't see it no where.


Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of Bush right now and I think the situation in Iraq has become a mess.

Bush did not put Saddam on trial. The trial was held by the free Iraqi people. The Iraqi people also hanged him, not Bush.

Bush did not gouge the price of gas or oil, the president does not control that.

Bush did not kill anyone, the insurgent terrorists killed them.

Yes, the situation in Iraq is a mess, but this was going on before 9/11 when Saddam was refusing to cooperate with the UN and violating the treaty he signed. A murderous dictator has been removed from power, tried, and executed. The Iraqi people who were once oppressed are now free. It took Germany decades to fully recover after Nazi rule, we can't expect Iraq to suddenly be stable overnight. We need to develop a better plan to help them become independent and stable then leave.

After WWII there were still Nazi loyalists who still fought and terrorized the citizens. Do you know how that situation was handled? The US hired former SS and German soldiers to take care of them, they were called Werewolves. The order was simply to "make them go away". It didn't take long until they completed their job. This is what we need in Iraq, but due to political correctness and the lack of testicular fortitude of our leaders, it won't happen.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Well, lets see, we went in there 20 years too late,
started crap,
tried leaders on war crimes,
hanged them,
lost over 3000 of our boys/girls,
injured over 23,000 more,
gouged the price of gas and oil,
put out nearly a billion d ollars a day for this "effort".......
Nobility, nope, I don't see it no where.


Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of Bush right now and I think the situation in Iraq has become a mess.

Bush did not put Saddam on trial. The trial was held by the free Iraqi people. The Iraqi people also hanged him, not Bush.

Bush did not gouge the price of gas or oil, the president does not control that.

Bush did not kill anyone, the insurgent terrorists killed them.

Yes, the situation in Iraq is a mess, but this was going on before 9/11 when Saddam was refusing to cooperate with the UN and violating the treaty he signed. A murderous dictator has been removed from power, tried, and executed. The Iraqi people who were once oppressed are now free. It took Germany decades to fully recover after Nazi rule, we can't expect Iraq to suddenly be stable overnight. We need to develop a better plan to help them become independent and stable then leave.

After WWII there were still Nazi loyalists who still fought and terrorized the citizens. Do you know how that situation was handled? The US hired former SS and German soldiers to take care of them, they were called Werewolves. The order was simply to "make them go away". It didn't take long until they completed their job. This is what we need in Iraq, but due to political correctness and the lack of testicular fortitude of our leaders, it won't happen.


Well, I am not a Bush fan either, but the fact that we went to Iraq when we did, and almost the entire world put up their objections to invading Iraq leads me to believe that our leaders were the ones who gave that order.

Biblically speaking, WHOEVER is responsibile for all the deaths in Iraq has "blood on their hands" and if anyone wants to hold any political person HIGH, then do so, but don't tell us it didn't happen, it did, and almost the entire world is against it right now.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
After WWII there were still Nazi loyalists who still fought and terrorized the citizens. Do you know how that situation was handled? The US hired former SS and German soldiers to take care of them, they were called Werewolves. The order was simply to "make them go away". It didn't take long until they completed their job. This is what we need in Iraq, but due to political correctness and the lack of testicular fortitude of our leaders, it won't happen.


I agree. This is another reason for the mess. If you are going to go to war, go to war. Of course, for all we know, they have done or will do exactly what you describe. We just won't be told either until it's done or possibly never.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
quote:
Well, lets see, we went in there 20 years too late,
started crap,
tried leaders on war crimes,
hanged them,
lost over 3000 of our boys/girls,
injured over 23,000 more,
gouged the price of gas and oil,
put out nearly a billion dollars a day for this "effort".......
Nobility, nope, I don't see it no where.


Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of Bush right now and I think the situation in Iraq has become a mess.

Bush did not put Saddam on trial. The trial was held by the free Iraqi people. The Iraqi people also hanged him, not Bush.

Bush did not gouge the price of gas or oil, the president does not control that.

Bush did not kill anyone, the insurgent terrorists killed them.

Yes, the situation in Iraq is a mess, but this was going on before 9/11 when Saddam was refusing to cooperate with the UN and violating the treaty he signed. A murderous dictator has been removed from power, tried, and executed. The Iraqi people who were once oppressed are now free. It took Germany decades to fully recover after Nazi rule, we can't expect Iraq to suddenly be stable overnight. We need to develop a better plan to help them become independent and stable then leave.

After WWII there were still Nazi loyalists who still fought and terrorized the citizens. Do you know how that situation was handled? The US hired former SS and German soldiers to take care of them, they were called Werewolves. The order was simply to "make them go away". It didn't take long until they completed their job. This is what we need in Iraq, but due to political correctness and the lack of testicular fortitude of our leaders, it won't happen.


Nash: your a little off...the Werewolves in postwar Germany were Nazi's who refused to surrender, namely former SS. Read the book (if you can find it) The Last Days of the Third Reich. I got it from the Military Book Club in 1988 I believe (I was 16 at the time). The book discusses Werewolves, Jugoslavia (British spelling as used in the book)- if you thought the 1990's was bad there, the post WW2 era was much worse, the fate of Russian Cossacks who sided with the Germans during the war (they treated the Germans as liberators from Stalin, off to the Gulags in Siberia they went, never to return), etc.

However, whatever their name, Nazi hunters were alive and well in Germany after the war. Lots of sectarian violence and killing going on all over Europe....similar to what is going on in a place today...oh, what is it called, I forgot....Oh, I remember now...Iraq...
You're right, my mistake. Werewolves were the remnants of Hitler's regime that continued to fight. These were terrorists, but were brutally taken out by their own kind hired by the Allies. Those left simply gave up the fight. I need to find the name of the group that took out the Werewolves. Thanks for correcting me.
I would venture a guess to say the other noble cause might be the slaughter of 750,000 civilians or genocide as it is commonly referred to. If the whole world was against heterosexuality would that make it right? Is the world worse off without Hussein? If we let Hussein continue the chemical warfare and slaughter would Bush win the Nobel prize because he kept the status quo? If we went in 20 years too late then we needed to go in right? The world is a messy place, always has been, but hopefully we can make it better one day at a time
I am with Kindred on this 100%. NOBLE? We invaded a country under false pretenses, dismantled a flawed govt but failed to reestablish a govt AND it seems like the Iraqis don't and didn't even want American help. To be quite honest, I am tired of this subject. So you can relax Brentenman and not try to fire any missiles at me because I am not responding or creating any other posts involving Iraq. I just will be glad to see the day when the troops come home. THE DOG
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:


Bush did not put Saddam on trial. The trial was held by the free Iraqi people. The Iraqi people also hanged him, not Bush.

Bush did not gouge the price of gas or oil, the president does not control that.

Bush did not kill anyone, the insurgent terrorists killed them.

Yes, the situation in Iraq is a mess, but this was going on before 9/11 when Saddam was refusing to cooperate with the UN and violating the treaty he signed. A murderous dictator has been removed from power, tried, and executed. The Iraqi people who were once oppressed are now free. It took Germany decades to fully recover after Nazi rule, we can't expect Iraq to suddenly be stable overnight. We need to develop a better plan to help them become independent and stable then leave.

After WWII there were still Nazi loyalists who still fought and terrorized the citizens. Do you know how that situation was handled? The US hired former SS and German soldiers to take care of them, they were called Werewolves. The order was simply to "make them go away". It didn't take long until they completed their job. This is what we need in Iraq, but due to political correctness and the lack of testicular fortitude of our leaders, it won't happen.


I Kinda took the After WW II statement about nazi symps to heart. PEOPLE LIKE PRESCOTT BUSH.
And wanabe Nazis Like Rupert Murdock. AND DANGED FOOLS (including Dumbya) Like YOU.
Pay attention That BAG you drop on your head with the X on it is not different from a HOOD.
The Bush INSTALLED government of Iraq, ACTING WITH THE FULL FAITH AND SUPPORT OF BUSH, HANGED SADDAM. Malawi, a reluctant Iraqi President says he wants OUT of that job because of INTERFERENCE from President Bush and his associates.
The price of oil is DEPENDENT on secure production and delivery of Oil, and Market Pressures. BUSH, by deciding to invade Iraq, greased the skids for China to Complete Oil Purchase Deals with a number of exporters, AND China paid premium, higher, prices. ERGO. Dumbya drove the price of gasoline up.
On Day ONE...in an effort to kill Saddam Hussain Bush ORDERED THE LAUNCHING OF A GUIDED BUNKER BUSTER INTO A DOWNTOWN IRAQ RESTAURANT, KILLING 32 INNOCENT IRAQI CIVILIANS. There was NO BUNKER UNDER THE RESTAURANT.
Ergo. BUSH KILLED INNOCENT IRAQIS.
Just as it took DEMOCRATIC Germany decades to recover from the harm done by the Third Reich it will likely take decades for the USA to recover from the damage done by the BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THE CONSERVATIVE TAKEOVER OF CONGRESS.
I really don't see how you can speak so eloquently of great ideals and dreams, when you seem to think so uncritically of what the neo conservative movement actually means. OR of what FASCISM IS.
quote:
Originally posted by dkn:
I would venture a guess to say the other noble cause might be the slaughter of 750,000 civilians or genocide as it is commonly referred to. If the whole world was against heterosexuality would that make it right? Is the world worse off without Hussein? If we let Hussein continue the chemical warfare and slaughter would Bush win the Nobel prize because he kept the status quo? If we went in 20 years too late then we needed to go in right? The world is a messy place, always has been, but hopefully we can make it better one day at a time

dkn,
That Cop out comment, we went in 20 years to late is NOT ENTIRELY TRUE. We were in for a long long time. American and British petro companies developed the oil riches of Iraq...ostensibly for Iraq. That was 70 years ago, give or take a decade. We supported Hussain against Ayatolla Kohmenei (sp) after the hijacking of the US Embassy in Teharan. Rumsfeld SOLD the chemicals to Hussain that made that gas that killed kurds that lived in the land Saddam ruled. While Reagan was president.

What we did not do, and this was during the reign of Bush the first, was SUPPORT the anti Baathist/Hussain Uprising by the Kurds and Sheits of Iraq. By the time the Republican Guards turned the tide of rebellion against them they had taken 13 of 16 provinces of Iraq, and AFTER they were crushed by Hussain's air power and armored infantry. We belatedly instituted a "no fly zone."
Last word, I promise, HOMOSEXUALITY IS. It is no more wrong that HETEROSEXUALITY. It is equal to ASEXUALITY as well. Condemning an act does not make it wrong. Tollerating it does not make it right. In this particular context, If you don't like it. DON'T DO IT.
quote:
I Kinda took the After WW II statement about nazi symps to heart. PEOPLE LIKE PRESCOTT BUSH.
And wanabe Nazis Like Rupert Murdock. AND DANGED FOOLS (including Dumbya) Like YOU.
Pay attention That BAG you drop on your head with the X on it is not different from a HOOD.
The Bush INSTALLED government of Iraq, ACTING WITH THE FULL FAITH AND SUPPORT OF BUSH, HANGED SADDAM. Malawi, a reluctant Iraqi President says he wants OUT of that job because of INTERFERENCE from President Bush and his associates.
The price of oil is DEPENDENT on secure production and delivery of Oil, and Market Pressures. BUSH, by deciding to invade Iraq, greased the skids for China to Complete Oil Purchase Deals with a number of exporters, AND China paid premium, higher, prices. ERGO. Dumbya drove the price of gasoline up.
On Day ONE...in an effort to kill Saddam Hussain Bush ORDERED THE LAUNCHING OF A GUIDED BUNKER BUSTER INTO A DOWNTOWN IRAQ RESTAURANT, KILLING 32 INNOCENT IRAQI CIVILIANS. There was NO BUNKER UNDER THE RESTAURANT.
Ergo. BUSH KILLED INNOCENT IRAQIS.
Just as it took DEMOCRATIC Germany decades to recover from the harm done by the Third Reich it will likely take decades for the USA to recover from the damage done by the BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THE CONSERVATIVE TAKEOVER OF CONGRESS.
I really don't see how you can speak so eloquently of great ideals and dreams, when you seem to think so uncritically of what the neo conservative movement actually means. OR of what FASCISM IS.


Keep drinking that kool-aid. It must be pretty strong if you actually believe any of that. Every bit is wrong.
Now now NashBama,

How often do I need to remind you that MY MOMMY WILL NOT LET ME DRINK KOOLAIDE?
Do you remember your cousin, the Legendary Hudson Hornet?
Are you the kind of Nash that has reclining front seats so your driver doesn't need a motel?
Have you ever asked a Cadillac driver how to shift out of second gear?

Seriously, DO YOU EVER READ THE TIMES OF LONDON, LE MOND, DER SPEIGLE, VANITY FAIR, NEWSWEEK OR TIME?
I can't see how you would believe the REASONS given so far for the Aggression against Iraq. One after another they have been FULLY AND TOTALLY discredited, the people who told them to you were lying when they made the statements, and YOU THINK THAT NOW THEY ARE TELLING YOU THE TRUTH?
Whatever you have been smoking, I WANT NONE OF IT.

ONE MORE TIME......... MY MOMMY WILL NOT LET ME DRINK KOOLAIDE.
gnash bam a....trails off in a drug induced fog, possibly the result of a Kool Aide Overdose.
[quote Wow, mommy must have not let you drink kool-aid because it conflicts with your meds. Take a dose and write something coherent. quote]

If you've got nothing else to say, I can go back to my book now.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
I am with Kindred on this 100%. NOBLE? We invaded a country under false pretenses, dismantled a flawed govt but failed to reestablish a govt AND it seems like the Iraqis don't and didn't even want American help. To be quite honest, I am tired of this subject. So you can relax Brentenman and not try to fire any missiles at me because I am not responding or creating any other posts involving Iraq. I just will be glad to see the day when the troops come home. THE DOG


WEll said DOG!
Interesting (but not unexpected) comments about Iraq. But the original question regards Bush's noble cause, if any. In 2000 when he was appointed President by Scalia, et. al., W's primary goals were dismantling federal regulation enforcement and cutting taxes. The WTC attacks only gave him the opportunity to declare himself emperor, which he could not resist.

But remember, he cut taxes AFTER invading Afghanistan, so this must be his noble cause for no fiscally responsible leader would do so knowing that the country was gong to war. He would ask the country for shared sacrifice instead. The only universally shared sacrifice in the country is higher gas prices.

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