Oh, have I hit a nerve? Is that what macho bullying sounds like? Cause I thought it sounded like,"I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU!" But now that I am..."I'M NOT A COP! IDIOT! I mean, I am literally spelling it out for you and you still aren't getting it! I'm obviously just one of the few people on here that doesn't have tunnel vision! Get over yourself.
Having several years experience I can tell you,if subject is spitting on you & cuffed throw any type rag over his head.Dont be as dumd as he is.
Dumb that is.
quote:Originally posted by justice:
Having several years experience I can tell you,if subject is spitting on you & cuffed throw any type rag over his head.Dont be as dumd as he is.
Actually, the arresting officer rarely has a rag on hand since he doesn't know he has a "spitter", BUT it is very useful to pull his shirt tail over his head, just be careful that the now blindfolded subject doesn't fall face first into his own fender. Some of the larger PD's actually have spitter nets.
Thank you.Any thing to stop the spit.If you ever handled anybody with cuffs on you know you can't stop the spitting but you can control their body buy useing the cuffs.Not everybody has done this so they would not understand how easy you can make someone comply with a simple twist of the cuff,not enough to break the wrist just enough to control them.
quote:Originally posted by I'mJustSaying:
Southern Guy...
Of course police brutality is frowned upon.. I'm not disagreeing with that. What YOU seem to be forgetting is that the handcuffed man was FIGHTING with the officers and KICKED one, while spitting and attempting to bite them. That behavior is not acceptable and we shouldn't expect law enforcement to tolerate that.
I disagree with the race issue also. I have a feeling if the skin color of the man were different, we wouldn't be here in this forum discussing it. You just proved you don't know the facts by your statement concerning the black supervisor. I'll excuse your ignorance on this one. The only person that acted inappropriately is the man in handcuffs.
Good morning I'mjustsaying -
Is it me or do you keep changing the behavior of the suspect to justify the actions of the officers involved?
"An officer was asked to help with the man in handcuffs, who happened to be cursing, spitting, kicking..... and lets not forget this wasn't his FIRST time in trouble with the law."
That quote is from you. Now, according to you, the suspect was biting or attempting to do so. The incident seems to have been more dramatic every time you post.
You are correct on something. I don't know all of the facts, I wasn't there. The facts haven't been made available to the public yet. You seem to be privy to information that many of us are not. However, if I respond to you using just the facts that you provide, my opinion wouldn't sway or change.
You appear to sincerely believe that race is an issue here. Why would you think that? I don't care if the suspect was white, black, hispanic, or a nice, calming shade of mauve. While I disagree with the treatment of the suspect based on the information available, my intent is to defend a profession that has been tarnished by actions similar to what we've been discussing. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, many of us (law enforcement or civilian) still believe that officers should represent the badge with dignity, professionalism, pride, courage, and honor (just to name a few).
quote:Originally posted by SickandTired!:
I'm Just Saying --I'm enjoying how Southern Guy is soooo dead set on many of us on here being law enforcement families. As if noone can speak in defense of these officers unless they are related! Ignorance AGAIN! Having said that, Southern Guy - Do you have, or have you had, ANY police training? Do you even know what you speak of when you say rediculous things like, "their training should become their instinct?" Do you really sit back and hear, much less believe, the crap that you say? Because if you do, you are more delusional than I thought! Ask yourself one question. If you were faced with the same split second decision that these officers were, even in your perfect world, how would you have responded? Be honest. Because while listening to you, people could walk away from this thinking that you are perfect! So...again, crap or not,(in your opinion of course),until you are faced with it, back off! Because this NON-RELATED to the police person is sooo sick of hearing about how you could've, should've and would've handled this situation that I want to scream!
Would you feel a little less stressed if you knew more about me?
Yes, I have law enforcement experience.
Yes, I've worked a traffic accident with a fatality in which a close friend was killed (and her infant son survived only to watch his mother die).
Yes, I've arrested many people..most were peaceful, some were not.
Yes, I've been threatened by suspects or have had my family threatened only because I was doing my job.
Yes, I've been in pursuits (foot and vehicle).
Yes, I knew a law enforcement officer killed in the line of duty.
Yes, many of my friends are law enforcement officers.
Yes, I've been hit by suspects (one partner was stabbed).
I could continue, but what's the point. You see SickandTired (very fitting by the way)...I have experience.
Why does my background matter? It really doesn't. Every single person has a right to hold the law enforcement community accountable for their actions. The public shouldn't expect big, soft teddy bears for policemen and women, but they should expect professionalism.
Maybe later we can discuss your background.
Doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers...and law enforcement officers, are, by profession, HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD for their actions. And they should be, because they SHOULD KNOW BETTER. However...such individuals DO NOT give up their rights as citizens by entering such professions and should be afforded the SAME 'courtesy' of 'reasonable doubt' when accused of wrongdoing until proven to be in error.
Southern Guy - First of all, your attempt at humor is completely lost on me. Again with the wondering of what I do for a living. While your background seemingly sounds to be informed then why on earth are you on here as a retired or otherwise officer attacking these men and their integrity without ALL of the facts? As long as this conversation has been going on, you have allowed people to believe that you are taking a poor, uninformed citizen's position on this. As long as I have allowed you to string me along through this conversation, I'm beginning to wonder if it is only because you have nothing better to do. I'm not attacking these men, or what they do or don't have to do, to defend themselves. To have been so involved as you are or were, in such horrible conditions as you describe, I find it hard to believe that you never found yourself in a position that OTHERS might have found questionable. Did you ever have your name drug through the mud or have every ounce of your integrity questioned while on the job? All of which is premature because the FACTS haven't even been released. I'm guessing with the perfectness that we have all gathered that you have...that the answer is no. All I ask of you, if you don't mind, is wait until you are informed enough to make all of these accusations against these men. I wish that you could know the true character of those that you so easily condemn. You are missing out. Thank you for the service that you provide or provided. I'm sincerely certain that it went unnoticed.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:quote:Originally posted by I'mJustSaying:
Southern Guy...
Of course police brutality is frowned upon.. I'm not disagreeing with that. What YOU seem to be forgetting is that the handcuffed man was FIGHTING with the officers and KICKED one, while spitting and attempting to bite them. That behavior is not acceptable and we shouldn't expect law enforcement to tolerate that.
I disagree with the race issue also. I have a feeling if the skin color of the man were different, we wouldn't be here in this forum discussing it. You just proved you don't know the facts by your statement concerning the black supervisor. I'll excuse your ignorance on this one. The only person that acted inappropriately is the man in handcuffs.
Good morning I'mjustsaying -
Is it me or do you keep changing the behavior of the suspect to justify the actions of the officers involved?
"An officer was asked to help with the man in handcuffs, who happened to be cursing, spitting, kicking..... and lets not forget this wasn't his FIRST time in trouble with the law."
That quote is from you. Now, according to you, the suspect was biting or attempting to do so. The incident seems to have been more dramatic every time you post.
You are correct on something. I don't know all of the facts, I wasn't there. The facts haven't been made available to the public yet. You seem to be privy to information that many of us are not. However, if I respond to you using just the facts that you provide, my opinion wouldn't sway or change.
You appear to sincerely believe that race is an issue here. Why would you think that? I don't care if the suspect was white, black, hispanic, or a nice, calming shade of mauve. While I disagree with the treatment of the suspect based on the information available, my intent is to defend a profession that has been tarnished by actions similar to what we've been discussing. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, many of us (law enforcement or civilian) still believe that officers should represent the badge with dignity, professionalism, pride, courage, and honor (just to name a few).
Southern Guy... I guess it IS just you because I did mention the attempted biting several posts ago. Go back and read. I don't need you to point out my quotes. I know what I said, unlike you. I haven't changed the facts around in my posts to make anything more dramatic.
You ask why I think race is an issue? When all of the details of this situation are made known to the public- you'll understand why. I believe the officers should respect the badge with dignity, professionalism, pride, courage and honor as well.... but they also have a right to defend themselves. Just because they put on a uniform doesn't negate the fact they are human. Police brutality DOES happen, more than any of us realize, but in THIS case, Southern Guy, reasonable force was used to control the man.
quote:Originally posted by SickandTired!:
Southern Guy - First of all, your attempt at humor is completely lost on me. Again with the wondering of what I do for a living. While your background seemingly sounds to be informed then why on earth are you on here as a retired or otherwise officer attacking these men and their integrity without ALL of the facts? As long as this conversation has been going on, you have allowed people to believe that you are taking a poor, uninformed citizen's position on this. As long as I have allowed you to string me along through this conversation, I'm beginning to wonder if it is only because you have nothing better to do. I'm not attacking these men, or what they do or don't have to do, to defend themselves. To have been so involved as you are or were, in such horrible conditions as you describe, I find it hard to believe that you never found yourself in a position that OTHERS might have found questionable. Did you ever have your name drug through the mud or have every ounce of your integrity questioned while on the job? All of which is premature because the FACTS haven't even been released. I'm guessing with the perfectness that we have all gathered that you have...that the answer is no. All I ask of you, if you don't mind, is wait until you are informed enough to make all of these accusations against these men. I wish that you could know the true character of those that you so easily condemn. You are missing out. Thank you for the service that you provide or provided. I'm sincerely certain that it went unnoticed.
Certain people that have posted on this thread, including you, have basically made comments similar to "until you walk a mile in their shoes"..."until you put on a gun and a badge". Well, some of us have..but it doesn't matter. My expectations of a law enforcement officers behavior should be no different than yours. Some of you are blinded by a caveman mentality.
No one on this forum should have all of the information regarding this incident unless you are either directly involved or are investigating it. Certain people on here seem to KNOW with certainty what happened. Yes, I'm directing that towards you and especially I'mjustsaying. Unless you were there, I don't care if your husband, wife, cousin, or the neighbors huntin' dog told you what happened. You could be married to the officers...still doesn't matter. You KNOW no more than I do.
Now, with that being said, this post/thread was started in response to a blog found on a website. I haven't asked for their heads on a platter. I want truth, I want facts...but until then I will continue to respond to what's available. I do feel sorry for their fellow officers. Until the facts are out, they stand under the same dark cloud of public doubt.
There's even been comments made about officers taking bribes, being faithful to their spouse, or performing "favors". That is pathetic. A person that claims to know one of these officers said that. Do you really think that his peers look forward to working with him each day?
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:quote:Originally posted by SickandTired!:
Southern Guy - First of all, your attempt at humor is completely lost on me. Again with the wondering of what I do for a living. While your background seemingly sounds to be informed then why on earth are you on here as a retired or otherwise officer attacking these men and their integrity without ALL of the facts? As long as this conversation has been going on, you have allowed people to believe that you are taking a poor, uninformed citizen's position on this. As long as I have allowed you to string me along through this conversation, I'm beginning to wonder if it is only because you have nothing better to do. I'm not attacking these men, or what they do or don't have to do, to defend themselves. To have been so involved as you are or were, in such horrible conditions as you describe, I find it hard to believe that you never found yourself in a position that OTHERS might have found questionable. Did you ever have your name drug through the mud or have every ounce of your integrity questioned while on the job? All of which is premature because the FACTS haven't even been released. I'm guessing with the perfectness that we have all gathered that you have...that the answer is no. All I ask of you, if you don't mind, is wait until you are informed enough to make all of these accusations against these men. I wish that you could know the true character of those that you so easily condemn. You are missing out. Thank you for the service that you provide or provided. I'm sincerely certain that it went unnoticed.
Certain people that have posted on this thread, including you, have basically made comments similar to "until you walk a mile in their shoes"..."until you put on a gun and a badge". Well, some of us have..but it doesn't matter. My expectations of a law enforcement officers behavior should be no different than yours. Some of you are blinded by a caveman mentality.
No one on this forum should have all of the information regarding this incident unless you are either directly involved or are investigating it. Certain people on here seem to KNOW with certainty what happened. Yes, I'm directing that towards you and especially I'mjustsaying. Unless you were there, I don't care if your husband, wife, cousin, or the neighbors huntin' dog told you what happened. You could be married to the officers...still doesn't matter. You KNOW no more than I do.
Now, with that being said, this post/thread was started in response to a blog found on a website. I haven't asked for their heads on a platter. I want truth, I want facts...but until then I will continue to respond to what's available. I do feel sorry for their fellow officers. Until the facts are out, they stand under the same dark cloud of public doubt.
There's even been comments made about officers taking bribes, being faithful to their spouse, or performing "favors". That is pathetic. A person that claims to know one of these officers said that. Do you really think that his peers look forward to working with him each day?
I never claimed to have all the information, Southern Guy. I simply believe I happen to know things that you don't, which is why my opinion differs from yours. As I said, once you learn all the details, we'll see if your opinion is the same. I can assure you I am not investigating this incident nor am I a relative. You feel sorry for their fellow officers?? What about these officers that are falling under fire for protecting themselves against this criminal? Yes, I made the comment about officers taking bribes, cheating on their wives, performing "favors" because IT HAPPENS. THAT is what is pathetic. You don't think that sort of behavior tarnishs the badge? Give me a break. In my experience, most policemen are honorable men and I was in no way trying to divert attention from this topic onto other officers who are misbehaving. As far as his peers looking forward to working with him... I doubt he became a policeman to make friends. His job is to protect and serve -- which I am grateful for. Southern Guy, if you were really in law enforcement as you claim, I find it hard to believe you are so quick to jump to the defense of a man that was fighting an officer. I hate this has turned into a debate between you and I, SouthernGuy, but I feel just as passionately about defending these officers as you do defending the criminal. Are you sure you aren't a civil rights lawyer?
quote:Originally posted by justice:
Thank you.Any thing to stop the spit.If you ever handled anybody with cuffs on you know you can't stop the spitting but you can control their body buy useing the cuffs.Not everybody has done this so they would not understand how easy you can make someone comply with a simple twist of the cuff,not enough to break the wrist just enough to control them.
Lifting on those cuffs can be pretty effective also...involves loss of balance and/or "tip toeing" for the handcuffed subject.
quote:Originally posted by I'mJustSaying:quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:quote:Originally posted by SickandTired!:
Southern Guy - First of all, your attempt at humor is completely lost on me. Again with the wondering of what I do for a living. While your background seemingly sounds to be informed then why on earth are you on here as a retired or otherwise officer attacking these men and their integrity without ALL of the facts? As long as this conversation has been going on, you have allowed people to believe that you are taking a poor, uninformed citizen's position on this. As long as I have allowed you to string me along through this conversation, I'm beginning to wonder if it is only because you have nothing better to do. I'm not attacking these men, or what they do or don't have to do, to defend themselves. To have been so involved as you are or were, in such horrible conditions as you describe, I find it hard to believe that you never found yourself in a position that OTHERS might have found questionable. Did you ever have your name drug through the mud or have every ounce of your integrity questioned while on the job? All of which is premature because the FACTS haven't even been released. I'm guessing with the perfectness that we have all gathered that you have...that the answer is no. All I ask of you, if you don't mind, is wait until you are informed enough to make all of these accusations against these men. I wish that you could know the true character of those that you so easily condemn. You are missing out. Thank you for the service that you provide or provided. I'm sincerely certain that it went unnoticed.
Certain people that have posted on this thread, including you, have basically made comments similar to "until you walk a mile in their shoes"..."until you put on a gun and a badge". Well, some of us have..but it doesn't matter. My expectations of a law enforcement officers behavior should be no different than yours. Some of you are blinded by a caveman mentality.
No one on this forum should have all of the information regarding this incident unless you are either directly involved or are investigating it. Certain people on here seem to KNOW with certainty what happened. Yes, I'm directing that towards you and especially I'mjustsaying. Unless you were there, I don't care if your husband, wife, cousin, or the neighbors huntin' dog told you what happened. You could be married to the officers...still doesn't matter. You KNOW no more than I do.
Now, with that being said, this post/thread was started in response to a blog found on a website. I haven't asked for their heads on a platter. I want truth, I want facts...but until then I will continue to respond to what's available. I do feel sorry for their fellow officers. Until the facts are out, they stand under the same dark cloud of public doubt.
There's even been comments made about officers taking bribes, being faithful to their spouse, or performing "favors". That is pathetic. A person that claims to know one of these officers said that. Do you really think that his peers look forward to working with him each day?
I never claimed to have all the information, Southern Guy. I simply believe I happen to know things that you don't, which is why my opinion differs from yours. As I said, once you learn all the details, we'll see if your opinion is the same. I can assure you I am not investigating this incident nor am I a relative. You feel sorry for their fellow officers?? What about these officers that are falling under fire for protecting themselves against this criminal? Yes, I made the comment about officers taking bribes, cheating on their wives, performing "favors" because IT HAPPENS. THAT is what is pathetic. You don't think that sort of behavior tarnishs the badge? Give me a break. In my experience, most policemen are honorable men and I was in no way trying to divert attention from this topic onto other officers who are misbehaving. As far as his peers looking forward to working with him... I doubt he became a policeman to make friends. His job is to protect and serve -- which I am grateful for. Southern Guy, if you were really in law enforcement as you claim, I find it hard to believe you are so quick to jump to the defense of a man that was fighting an officer. I hate this has turned into a debate between you and I, SouthernGuy, but I feel just as passionately about defending these officers as you do defending the criminal. Are you sure you aren't a civil rights lawyer?
Defend ...
this
quote:
Did the lady have a knife? Was she being told to put it down? The video is very jumpy at the point she ends up on the ground so every move wasn't visable. Still, it looked like a bad incident. Nonetheless, I dont see how this video of an elderly lady seemingly having excessive force used on her is relevent to the issue at Muscle Shoals Police Department. I have never agreed with police brutality and I'm not defending every officer that wears a uniform. There are some really bad cops out there that do some really bad things. It is just my opinion that the officers in question at MSPD did what they had to do to control the situation. So, WH, I can't defend the video you posted because there IS no defense. I am sorry that lady was treated that way, even if she was 80 years old and wandering around the parking lot with a KNIFE. It wasn't my intention to place all officers on a pedestal because I know some of them abuse their power. I just feel the officers at MSPD acted within reason to subdue a difficult suspect. But hey, that is my opinion and you all know what they say about those.
Have a great day!
IF you were a cop Southern Guy -- why did you quit? or were you fired?
Alcohol can have miraculous side effects. This guy is a repeat offender. If he was drunk at the time of the altercation, no amount of twisting or lifting on the cuffs is going to make him comply. Alcohol = pain-be-gone until it wears off. Add drugs to the mix and the criminal becomes Superman. An officer has to do what an officer has to do.
quote:Originally posted by Tomme73:
Alcohol can have miraculous side effects. This guy is a repeat offender. If he was drunk at the time of the altercation, no amount of twisting or lifting on the cuffs is going to make him comply. Alcohol = pain-be-gone until it wears off. Add drugs to the mix and the criminal becomes Superman. An officer has to do what an officer has to do.
Very well said, Tomme73... I'm glad you see the point I've been trying to make.
Eastside, I may have retired. I may be disabled. Does it matter? Does it surprise you that other law enforcement officers feel that these officers may have acted inappropriately? Not everyone has a "good ole boy" mentality these days. Eastside, do you have any law enforcement experience? It's completely relevant because if you haven't put on a gun and badge...there's no possible way you could understand any of this. That's not my way of thinking, but it seems to be the way of others on here. My point is this. It doesn't matter if you deliver pizzas, drive a garbage truck, or will be performing heart surgery later today. It is almost impossible for an officer to justify kicking a handcuffed man. If someone shoved a can of OC spray in his face and "lit him up"...that may be inappropriate as well.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
Eastside, I may have retired. I may be disabled. I may be patrolling your neighborhood later today. Does it matter? Does it surprise you that other law enforcement officers feel that these officers may have acted inappropriately? Not everyone has a "good ole boy" mentality these days. Eastside, do you have any law enforcement experience? It's completely relevant because if you haven't put on a gun and badge...there's no possible way you could understand any of this. That's not my way of thinking, but it seems to be the way of others on here. My point is this. It doesn't matter if you deliver pizzas, drive a garbage truck, or will be performing heart surgery later today. It is almost impossible for an officer to justify kicking a handcuffed man. If someone shoved a can of OC spray in his face and "lit him up"...that may be inappropriate as well.
Your post sounded "past tense" so I asked the question. I'll ask it a different way then -- are you an officer and if so do you still work locally? If you are no longer an officer -- why are you not an officer?
What does it matter what my job status is?
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
What does it matter what my job status is?
You claimed that MAYBE you had walked in those shoes -- just asking if you did or you didn't -- Why do you keep deflecting the question?
If Im understanding you correctly, questions about my background have been answered in a previous post. Would you care to discuss you background? Can you give me an instance of when kicking a handcuffed suspect is justified?
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
If Im understanding you correctly, questions about my background have been answered in a previous post. Would you care to discuss you background? Can you give me an instance of when kicking a handcuffed suspect is justified?
Again, you avoid the question. If you have been an officer or are one currently you should have no problem stating such. You implied something and I just want a straight Yes or No answer -- why can't you just answer the question? I don't want your full background I just want an answer to the question. You keep repeating your dodges of my question so why do you have a problem repeating your answers to my question.
To answer your questions:
I have no problem telling you I currently work with a local doctor's office. This instance is justified if the person was still fighting, kicking and biting in my opinion. Again, show me a video tape to prove they used excessive force and I might could agree with you, but on the face of the facts, I think the officers were in the right.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
Can you give me an instance of when kicking a handcuffed suspect is justified?
Yes... when said hancuffed suspect is kicking officers and fighting with them. They should be allowed to defend themselves. Period.
quote:Originally posted by Eastside:
This instance is justified if the person was still fighting, kicking and biting in my opinion. Again, show me a video tape to prove they used excessive force and I might could agree with you, but on the face of the facts, I think the officers were in the right.
Eastside... I totally agree. Thank you for being open minded and not just assuming that it is an open and shut case of police brutality. There ARE circumstances to consider and I'm glad someone else feels the way I do.
I'm just trying to figure out why SouthernGuy can't answer simple questions from a page or 2 ago but implied he either is or was a police officer. If he was, he should be proud regardless of his opinion on this case.
I'mJustSaying, Eastside, and Tomme73 - THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! I do believe that ur are my favorite people that I've never met! LOL...Sincerely, thank you.
I watched my dog chase his tail a while ago and it reminded me of this forum....all of you round and round in circles! Let it go. Who cares if someone is LEO or not. It's none of your business. I've lost interest in the entire thread! 
Have a nice day! Thanks for stopping by! Wish you could stay longer! Take care now ya hear!
Eastside....
I have already explained that I have a background in law enforcement. I would tell you more about myself but it's G-14 classified (I may lose you at this point). My job status is not relevant to how these officers may have acted or my opinions of the events that may have taken place. I don't have to be large and in charge or boast about my accomplishments to get my point across. You can choose to listen (or read..however you want to look at it) how someone with experience feels...or not.
I don't want to see anyone's life and/or career destroyed. My concern is with the alleged kicking of a handcuffed suspect. Again, it's almost impossible to justify in any situation. Sometimes officers act accordingly and sometimes they overreact. IF...IF...IF they overreacted, it's unfortunate for the entire department.
I have already explained that I have a background in law enforcement. I would tell you more about myself but it's G-14 classified (I may lose you at this point). My job status is not relevant to how these officers may have acted or my opinions of the events that may have taken place. I don't have to be large and in charge or boast about my accomplishments to get my point across. You can choose to listen (or read..however you want to look at it) how someone with experience feels...or not.
I don't want to see anyone's life and/or career destroyed. My concern is with the alleged kicking of a handcuffed suspect. Again, it's almost impossible to justify in any situation. Sometimes officers act accordingly and sometimes they overreact. IF...IF...IF they overreacted, it's unfortunate for the entire department.
BeadCutterByTrade - I can completely appreciate the "around and around" that this forum topic has taken. I mentioned that myself in an earlier post. That being said, if you don't wany to weigh in, leave the rest of us alone. I've been on here for several days, discussing with others our opinions and haven't noticed you at all. So if you don't want to hear it...don't read it! I mean, you have to make specific efforts to get to this particular forum on this subject. Eastside - You make me laugh (i've enjoyed listening to you)! Southern Guy - you do too!(just in a different way). I will say this...it's nice that we can discuss our opinions with each other. Again, let's agree to disagree. I promise you when this all surfaces, you will understand with great clarity. All of you have a good night and thanks again for the discussions. It is rather cathartic when you are able to "talk" it out on here.
I don't choose to weigh in....I have my opinions about this particular situation but choose to wait until all the facts are in....otherwise, it is only useless speculation.
Have any of you people that are screaming Police brutality ever watched the show Cops?
Ever seen the drunks or someone high on drugs, handcuffed, fight the officer's trying to arrest him/her? An officer doesn't deserve to be kicked, spit upon, or bitten because he's doing his job.
What if he's bitten by someone that has aids?
I'm sure there are some cops that let their job go to their head but my guess is most are decent human beings that love their work & want to protect their community. They sure wouldn't be doing it for the money they make.
For you officer's that are posting here, reading here, working or retired, I salute you & thank you for putting your life on the line everyday.
Ever seen the drunks or someone high on drugs, handcuffed, fight the officer's trying to arrest him/her? An officer doesn't deserve to be kicked, spit upon, or bitten because he's doing his job.
What if he's bitten by someone that has aids?
I'm sure there are some cops that let their job go to their head but my guess is most are decent human beings that love their work & want to protect their community. They sure wouldn't be doing it for the money they make.
For you officer's that are posting here, reading here, working or retired, I salute you & thank you for putting your life on the line everyday.
Semiannualchick... thank you for your post. That has been my point all along... the officers have a right to defend themselves against being kicked, spit on and bitten. I hate to keep repeating myself (however it seems necessary to keep reminding a few certain people) but this suspect was combative... not docile. And you are so right Semiannual, they do this job to serve the community, not for the big fat paycheck. I too would like to thank the officers for their service, they don't get recognized near enough.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
Eastside....
I have already explained that I have a background in law enforcement. I would tell you more about myself but it's G-14 classified (I may lose you at this point). My job status is not relevant to how these officers may have acted or my opinions of the events that may have taken place. I don't have to be large and in charge or boast about my accomplishments to get my point across. You can choose to listen (or read..however you want to look at it) how someone with experience feels...or not.
I don't want to see anyone's life and/or career destroyed. My concern is with the alleged kicking of a handcuffed suspect. Again, it's almost impossible to justify in any situation. Sometimes officers act accordingly and sometimes they overreact. IF...IF...IF they overreacted, it's unfortunate for the entire department.
Southern_Guy -- yes, I actually do understand "G-14 classified" as I have seen the movie Rush Hour, but thanks for playing
. Regardless I understand your opinion and I could respect your opinion if you seemed to understand and respect that others have their opinion and pretty much nothing you say is going to change their opinion. You continue to act like anyone that believes that these officers acted appropriately is an idiot because you think you are right. In reality, every situation is different. In this situation, I still say the officers acted appropriately. In another situation if the suspect were passed out cold and they just wanted to get their rocks off kicking him -- then yes, that would be inappropriate. Again, show me a video that shows the full story of what they were dealing with that night and PROVE they acted inappropriately. But personally, at this point, we've spent 8 pages of going in circles like someone said. You have your opinion and the rest of us have ours. We don't really care to change your mind we just keep countering your degrading of these officers. We that feel it was appropriate still feel if they felt the need to defend themselves -- then we will back them. So again, have a nice day!
Eastside -
Who has degraded these officers? I'm certainly not going to defend kicking a handcuffed suspect in this case but saying they are being degraded is a stretch. It's great that some of the public wants to defend law enforcement officers. Many people perceive them as Tom Cruise wannabes who sit in a patrol car with their dark sunglasses on waiting to harass the next innocent victim. Most of us know that's not the case though. However, law enforcement officers generally aren't afforded the luxury of responding to certain situations as John Q. Public may. On the playground, if someone bites little Johnny, guess what...he's biting them back. If someone kicks little Johnny, you'd better watch out...the feet will be flying. Police officers are taught to de-escalate bad situations though. If you have to respond using force, then you use the minimum amount of force necessary to control the situation. If a suspect runs, you don't run over him with the patrol car. Kicking someone may be a good defense if a suspect is on the top of an officer and the officer fears for his life. However, kicking a suspect as a control technique to get him/her to comply is completely unacceptable. The general public may support conduct such as this, but overall, the law enforcement community does not.
Who has degraded these officers? I'm certainly not going to defend kicking a handcuffed suspect in this case but saying they are being degraded is a stretch. It's great that some of the public wants to defend law enforcement officers. Many people perceive them as Tom Cruise wannabes who sit in a patrol car with their dark sunglasses on waiting to harass the next innocent victim. Most of us know that's not the case though. However, law enforcement officers generally aren't afforded the luxury of responding to certain situations as John Q. Public may. On the playground, if someone bites little Johnny, guess what...he's biting them back. If someone kicks little Johnny, you'd better watch out...the feet will be flying. Police officers are taught to de-escalate bad situations though. If you have to respond using force, then you use the minimum amount of force necessary to control the situation. If a suspect runs, you don't run over him with the patrol car. Kicking someone may be a good defense if a suspect is on the top of an officer and the officer fears for his life. However, kicking a suspect as a control technique to get him/her to comply is completely unacceptable. The general public may support conduct such as this, but overall, the law enforcement community does not.
Maybe this will help you look at things from a different perspective.
If I'm correct, it was stated in an earlier post that the suspect didn't file the initial complaint against the officers. If that's the case, then it came from within. That means that at least one co-worker felt the officers acted inappropriately. One of their own. Someone that has been trained as they have. Before race comes back into play, let me explain something. There may be women, black officers, white officers, yellow officers...whatever...but when you take that oath and pin on that badge, they become your second family. It took courage for one officer to complain on another if that's what happened. That is the honor and dedication to the profession that we should expect.
If I'm correct, it was stated in an earlier post that the suspect didn't file the initial complaint against the officers. If that's the case, then it came from within. That means that at least one co-worker felt the officers acted inappropriately. One of their own. Someone that has been trained as they have. Before race comes back into play, let me explain something. There may be women, black officers, white officers, yellow officers...whatever...but when you take that oath and pin on that badge, they become your second family. It took courage for one officer to complain on another if that's what happened. That is the honor and dedication to the profession that we should expect.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
Eastside -
Who has degraded these officers? I'm certainly not going to defend kicking a handcuffed suspect in this case but saying they are being degraded is a stretch. It's great that some of the public wants to defend law enforcement officers. Many people perceive them as Tom Cruise wannabes who sit in a patrol car with their dark sunglasses on waiting to harass the next innocent victim. Most of us know that's not the case though. However, law enforcement officers generally aren't afforded the luxury of responding to certain situations as John Q. Public may. On the playground, if someone bites little Johnny, guess what...he's biting them back. If someone kicks little Johnny, you'd better watch out...the feet will be flying. Police officers are taught to de-escalate bad situations though. If you have to respond using force, then you use the minimum amount of force necessary to control the situation. If a suspect runs, you don't run over him with the patrol car. Kicking someone may be a good defense if a suspect is on the top of an officer and the officer fears for his life. However, kicking a suspect as a control technique to get him/her to comply is completely unacceptable. The general public may support conduct such as this, but overall, the law enforcement community does not.
I didn't say you degraded the officers I said you berated posters that felt the officers handled this appropriately. Your tone and attitude is that we are stupid or crazy or ignorant or whatever for taking the officer's side. You even compare it to other situations but there is no comparison to any other situation because law enforcement tend to deal with the worst characters in the worst scenarios and I wouldn't dare to assume to compare this to a bully on the playground--there is no comparison.
Again, show me a video that proves excessive force was used and I'll agree with you. Otherwise, I will continue to stand behind the men and women that wear the uniform and the badge and know they aren't Tom Cruise with shades on and CHOOSE to do a very dangerous and often unrewarded job every day for minimum pay with maximum judgment from people that truly have no clue what they go through on a shift.
Yes, it takes courage to stand up to injustice and our officers do that every day when they deal with the perps that they do that get by with the court system and get the minimum sentence or out on bail for major crimes or have multiple DUI's and feel they can attack and officer and then blame the officer for doing his job. There are far more false accusations by perps like this one trying to make a buck and get out of the consequences of their actions than officers not doing their job.
I know that MSPD has been in upheaval at times, but they are still a good department and they are still good officers.
Again, I will stop responding because all you are going to do is continue with your same arguement and I'm going to continue to defend the actions of the officers until the video tape PROVING otherwise is shown to the public.
quote:Originally posted by Southern_Guy:
Many people perceive them as Tom Cruise wannabes who sit in a patrol car with their dark sunglasses on waiting to harass the next innocent victim.
I've never perceived them that way & I would think the majority of people don't.
I'm happy to see them there, dark sunglasses or not. Hopefully, they'll catch that speeder or drunk that could possibly kill someone.
BTW, what's wrong with dark sunglasses? I'm not a cop but I wear them myself.
