NashBama, I have the Walter Reed Discussion Moved

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Originally posted by NashBama:
To keep it simple for you, I'll be brief.

Socialism is when the control and distribution of wealth and property is held by the community or government. Money is taken from those who have it and distributed to those who don't. (Tax hikes for the rich and more welfare for the poor sound familiar?) It's also when goods and services are shared and operated by the community and/or government instead of private people or business. Hillary Clinton wants to socialize health care and make it the responsibility of the government so that everyone can get it for free. This is simply a bad idea.

An example of a private hospital is Vanderbilt. An example of a government operated hospital is Walter Reed. Now, say you are seriously hurt and you are being taken for treatment. The ambulance drive asks which hospital do you want to go to. Are you going to pick Vanderbilt or Walter Reed? If Hillary Clinton had her way and socialized health care, you wouldn't be asked nor would you have a choice. You would be heading for Walter Reed, the federal government run hospital.
Not a good example, for one thing Walter Reed is the right hospital for Traumatic injuries. It treats war injuries. Second it's an Army Hospital. If you're not in the Army you don't go there.
Allow me to ask this question: "If the company you work for pays 250 dollars per month for your health coverage, and we go a socialized system that cost your employer 200 dollars a month in additional taxes, how much money does your employer loose by having the federal system?

The problem with ALL the arguments about the tax costs of a National Health Care Plan; NONE OF THEM ADDRESS THE COST WE ARE NOW PAYING. How stupid do you have to be to not understand that the one plan replaces and eliminates the cost of the other?

Health Insurance is PRIVATIZED COMMUNISM. FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED. You Can't Collect if you Can't pay the Premiums, and YOU DON'T GET A REFUND OF YOUR PREMIUMS FOR STAYING HEALTHY.

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Originally posted by NashBama:
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Walter Reed had a contingent of military personnel who were charged with maintaining the buildings, grounds, kitchens and services. Those troops have been replaced by contractors who hire civilians. That is the meaning of Privatization.


Wrong. Hiring a civilian contractor does not mean the entire hospital is suddenly privately owned. If Walter Reed is privately owned, why did the Secretary of the Army have to resign? Very simple, because it's a federally operated facility just like other VA hospitals. They receive federal money, they do not rely on profits to operate like a private hospital.

So once again, yes Walter Reed is a government run facility and is an example of what will happen with socialized health care. Vanderbilt is a private facility and is an example of keeping the power of health care in the private sector. Socialising health care is not the solution.
Walter Reed management is the Army Medical corps. They used to hire and manage all the maintenance workers. Now they hire contractors, and "inspect" the work. THAT IS PRIVATIZATION. Where the janitors and cooks and so on were government workers before, they are now employed by a contractor.
It is also privatization when the government sells a business, lock stock and barrel. But that is NOT what was changed at Walter Reed. Everyone at a VA hospital works for the Veterans Administration. They get a paycheck from the government, they are on the government payroll, or they are unpaid volunteers. At Army Hospitals a company, like Halliburton or Kellog Brown and Root gets the government check, and they hire and pay the people who do the work. That is Privatization. IT IS NOT NECESSARY to sell the whole operation to the highest bidder and then contract for the services.
As is common with extremists, you have taken a "partial Privatization" and denied that it is privatization because the overall management of the facility is still in Army hands.
http://www.aolelectionsblog.com/2007/03/18/plan-to-priv...eed-stopped-for-now/[/QUOTE]

NASHBAMA:
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For EdKit, you can try to justify yourself as much as you want, the fact of the matter is Walter Reed is run and operated by the federal government. Hiring civilian labor does not mean that Walter Reed is suddenly privately owned. I know it's hard to admit when your wrong, but you're wasting your time here. You're wrong and completely off topic.

For Kindred, please re-post this. I don't understand what Comcast has to do with any of this and really didn't understand the post in general. Thanks.

NashBama. YOU DON'T GET IT DO YOU. The Walter Reed system changed from GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES) DOING THE MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE WORK TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS, WHO HIRE THE EMPLOYEES. There was a Single Bidder for the Contracts, IAP Worldwide Is owned by a hedge fund. The Chairman of the Board of the Hedge Fund is former Treasury Secretary John Snow. The board of directors includes former Kellogg Brown and Root Executives. The outsourcing of "non military support jobs" is part of Donald Rumsfeld's planning.

You have my permission to keep kicking, but I am at least as obstinate as you, and I am better informed, and more experienced, In a fist fight you would win. This IS NOT A FIST FIGHT.
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
Original Post
Now, we can go from here, Or you can start hunting for quarters on the floor.

I am not going to sit idle while you distort the positions of Liberals AND Conservatives by ONLY considering the Extremes.

The Walter Reed system changed from GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES) DOING THE MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE WORK TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS, WHO HIRE THE EMPLOYEES. There was a Single Bidder for the Contracts, IAP Worldwide Is owned by a hedge fund. The Chairman of the Board of the Hedge Fund is former Treasury Secretary John Snow. The board of directors includes former Kellogg Brown and Root Executives. The outsourcing of "non military support jobs" is part of Donald Rumsfeld's planning.
Who took the blame for the problems at Walter Reed when they surfaced? Was it a private business owner or someone who was paid by the Federal Government? Hiring civilians does NOT make the hospital private, why are you having trouble understanding such a simple concept?

You could not argue with the original example, therefore you are changing the discussion. I'm done with this and will not read this discussion any further.
quote:
Originally posted by NashBama:
Who took the blame for the problems at Walter Reed when they surfaced? Was it a private business owner or someone who was paid by the Federal Government? Hiring civilians does NOT make the hospital private, why are you having trouble understanding such a simple concept?

You could not argue with the original example, therefore you are changing the discussion. I'm done with this and will not read this discussion any further.
Who Fell on their swords was the Officers in charge of management at Walter Reed. They are ultimately responsible. The people who did not do the work were employees of IAP Worldwide.

The decision to change from civilian DoD employees to IAP was made by THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, Acting on instructions from GW Bush.
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Now, we can go from here, Or you can start hunting for quarters on the floor.

I am not going to sit idle while you distort the positions of Liberals AND Conservatives by ONLY considering the Extremes.

The Walter Reed system changed from GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES) DOING THE MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE WORK TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS, WHO HIRE THE EMPLOYEES. There was a Single Bidder for the Contracts, IAP Worldwide Is owned by a hedge fund. The Chairman of the Board of the Hedge Fund is former Treasury Secretary John Snow. The board of directors includes former Kellogg Brown and Root Executives. The outsourcing of "non military support jobs" is part of Donald Rumsfeld's planning.


Who is doing the Medical? is it military or private? Maintenance and service work is the cleaning, repair work to the facilities...Although that is important...if the doctors and Nurses are military then it isn't private. And when I was there in Jan most all doctors and nurses I seen had insignia on their uniforms.
Military are doing most medical with some US civil service. Contractors are doing the maintenace work. After the BRAC announcement, it became increasingly hard to hire civil service for maintenance.

Military commanders are responsible for insuring a barracks inspection system is in place. If not, their IG or internal review activities should be in place to report system failure. Both systems failed, that's why the military commnders got replaced, and rightfully so. Most of the problems were for the over flow housing outside the wire, no excuse, but military usually place emphasis on the installation within its borders.
quote:
Originally posted by Schnauzer:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Now, we can go from here, Or you can start hunting for quarters on the floor.

I am not going to sit idle while you distort the positions of Liberals AND Conservatives by ONLY considering the Extremes.

The Walter Reed system changed from GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES (CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES) DOING THE MAINTENANCE AND SERVICE WORK TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS, WHO HIRE THE EMPLOYEES. There was a Single Bidder for the Contracts, IAP Worldwide Is owned by a hedge fund. The Chairman of the Board of the Hedge Fund is former Treasury Secretary John Snow. The board of directors includes former Kellogg Brown and Root Executives. The outsourcing of "non military support jobs" is part of Donald Rumsfeld's planning.


Who is doing the Medical? is it military or private? Maintenance and service work is the cleaning, repair work to the facilities...Although that is important...if the doctors and Nurses are military then it isn't private. And when I was there in Jan most all doctors and nurses I seen had insignia on their uniforms.
I DON'T KNOW, At least not of a certainty, but If it is like most Military hospitals, some of the Doctors are brought in for special cases. Otherwise the Medical staff is most likely Active duty Military. I don't know how far the privatization went. It did, for a certainty go to the support staff. Kitchen, grounds and buildings. And the contract went to the ONLY bidder. It is not necessarily all bad, Keep in mind that we went to the moon on equipment from the Lowest QUALIFIED bidder.
The problem here is the insistence that partial privatization is not privatization.

The Problem of the conditions IS a result of cutting the military support staff by about 90%. If I recall the figures correctly 200 plus military personnel out of a staff were replaced by contractors, leaving something like 12 supervisors and inspectors.

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