Another Bailout
Wow. At some point you have to stop and wonder if Colbert County will be the demise of all state employees pension funds.
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Wise has received a string of good news in the past 14 months, first landing a multi-year contract with Anheuser-Busch InBev, and earning a contract with Coca-Cola."
The railcar plant this is not. These contracts decrease the risk in this investment. Wise is also the third largest producer of can stock in North America.
The railcar plant was built and there is not enough demand in North America to support this plant. Looks as if there are lower cost railcar providers located in Mexico. Thats the reason NSC was coming to Alabama, non union workers to lower cost. Maybe they didn't go south enough to compete. Maybe the owner of National Industries hoodwinked the people that built the National Alabama Corp railcar plant. Definitely though the people that built the railcar plant didn't do very good due diligence.
But Wise the railcar plant is not. This is a much less risky investment than the railcar plant.
The railcar plant this is not. These contracts decrease the risk in this investment. Wise is also the third largest producer of can stock in North America.
The railcar plant was built and there is not enough demand in North America to support this plant. Looks as if there are lower cost railcar providers located in Mexico. Thats the reason NSC was coming to Alabama, non union workers to lower cost. Maybe they didn't go south enough to compete. Maybe the owner of National Industries hoodwinked the people that built the National Alabama Corp railcar plant. Definitely though the people that built the railcar plant didn't do very good due diligence.
But Wise the railcar plant is not. This is a much less risky investment than the railcar plant.
Shoals: When the railcar plant was planned and built, there was plenty of demand world wide. Unfortunately, the economy tanked. (newsflash) The same situation occured at Wise Alloys which had added extra people to supply a contract for a trailer car producer in Brazil. Afer the economy went South, so did that contract. The fact is, orders for any type of transportation vehicle are way down as companies "make do" with what they have in these uncertain times. It has nothing to do with due dilegence. Let's all be positive, and hope demand will grow very soon instead of trying to blame people who have tried very hard to grow the economy in the Shoals
Smooth Operator, you are so right! Let's pray for a turn around for the economy, amen?
Amen, indeed. My personal prediction is that both companies will thrive with the infusion of cash and management knowledge that RSA provides.
First off Smoothie if you look at the timeline below in 2006 National Steel Car (NSC) was already laying off workers because of dropping demand. The world didn’t produce as many railcars in 2006 as they did in 2005. It turns out 2005 was the peak year of railcar production. Second the NSC CEO knew he needed to decrease costs if his company was going to be competitive. The union wages the Canadian plant was paying workers would not allow the company to compete with producers that had moved to Mexico. Essentially this National Alabama (NA) plant was a union buster because NA was going to use non-union workers in the plant. So in 2007 NA was announced even after worldwide production of railcars was already falling. With a reported 500,000 idle railcars around the North American continent (NA was to produce between 8,000 and 10,000 a year) and the planned shutting of several coal fire power plants around the US due to environmental concerns and the still sputtering economy the railcar industry may not need new railcars for the considerable future.
Timeline
July 2007 National Steel Car announces 350 million dollar loan from RSA to build railcar plant National Alabama in Barton.
March 2009 an additional 275 million dollars loaned to National Steel Car to purchase equipment for National Alabama.
August 2009 National Steel Car CEO resigns as CEO of National Alabama.
September 2010 RSA obtains full control of National Alabama.
There has not been much transparency pertaining to this NA deal. Including the 625 million from RSA there have been reports of this company was given 640 acres of land, 40 million dollars of incentives from the state government, and 18 million dollars from a half-cent sales tax increase that went to SIDC. Of course they got the land and the 625 from RSA, I don’t know about the other incentives because like I said there is no transparency and they are using taxpayer dollars and state employee retirement pension money. I would like to know how much of the 625 million went into actually building the NA Barton plant and how much National Steel Car lined their pockets with? Also would like to know the status about the other incentives? Also would like to know about the loans and ownership agreements during the time span? Posted below are the comments from some of the so-called leaders responsible for this.
July 2009
"The whole world has stopped, and if you are producing a commodity, which I consider a
hard good that can last 60 to 70 years, it's tough right now," Bronner said.
If he doesn’t even know the definition of a commodity then I wonder about his guy. A commodity is a product that doesn’t have a quality differentiation. That is they are all the same with respect for quality. It has nothing to do with how long it lasts. Commodities are usually priced the same across the market, as there is nothing to differentiate one from the other to justify a difference in prices. Any good, product, or service can become a commodity.
July 2009
"There has been too much money invested in this for it not to succeed," said Muscle Shoals Mayor David Bradford.
Could be read as we are chasing bad money. No there is no such thing as too big to fail, but this is coming from the one of the guys who thinks economic development is spending $800,000 of tax money to put in a chicken restaurant. Which in my opinion the chicken deal is in place to bail out a city attorney’s partner from a bad property investment. There is a lack of transparency in the chicken deal for anyone to know the facts though.
July 2009
"I'm disappointed there are not 1,800 jobs today, but I do know we have 100 jobs we would not have had, and we will see substantial employment at that plant in the next 24 months." Macke Mauldin
All I can say here is you got 7 months.
July 2009
Bradford points out National Alabama is in better position than other mega-industrial projects in the Southeast that were announced in 2007. "Look at Toyota in Mississippi and the steel mill in south Alabama," Bradford said. "One is on hold and one is in mothballs."
Really now let’s compare. The steel mill’s grand opening is today I believe. Toyota is finishing their plant and plan on producing the more fuel efficient Corolla instead of the SUV Highlander (smart business plan). Both of these seem to me to better investments than railcars at this point. “Although production of new railcars should pick up starting in 2011 — more because shippers need certain car types rather than from overall demand rising enough to soak up idled equipment — FTR looks for a surplus overhang in 2013, at the end of its five-year forecast range, to still be 341,000 units”. I suspect the railcars that are built will not be built in NA. NA have yet to get a contract and companies that contract for railcars to be built will do so with companies they already have a relationship with. The problem is nobody wants to be held accountable. Just smile say we messed this one up but we will try and do better next time. Don’t lie to us like we are stupid, everything’s fines here folks keep on moving. The railcar plant hopefully can find another industry to come in and use the building and maybe some of the equipment. I would like to see some kind of sustainable energy or electric car product produced because that is the wave of the future. I doubt mass production of railcars will ever happen in Barton though. Falcon1234 you need to be teaching at 8:21 on a Friday morning not on the TD forums. You picked the right job though because economics is not for you if you think that both of the companies will thrive. It is probably hard for you to admit that 625 million that’s part of your retirement fund may be what we call a sunk cost. Wise will do well they have established contracts with 2 of the biggest can producing companies in the world. National Alabama though like I said before Wise it is not.
Timeline
July 2007 National Steel Car announces 350 million dollar loan from RSA to build railcar plant National Alabama in Barton.
March 2009 an additional 275 million dollars loaned to National Steel Car to purchase equipment for National Alabama.
August 2009 National Steel Car CEO resigns as CEO of National Alabama.
September 2010 RSA obtains full control of National Alabama.
There has not been much transparency pertaining to this NA deal. Including the 625 million from RSA there have been reports of this company was given 640 acres of land, 40 million dollars of incentives from the state government, and 18 million dollars from a half-cent sales tax increase that went to SIDC. Of course they got the land and the 625 from RSA, I don’t know about the other incentives because like I said there is no transparency and they are using taxpayer dollars and state employee retirement pension money. I would like to know how much of the 625 million went into actually building the NA Barton plant and how much National Steel Car lined their pockets with? Also would like to know the status about the other incentives? Also would like to know about the loans and ownership agreements during the time span? Posted below are the comments from some of the so-called leaders responsible for this.
July 2009
"The whole world has stopped, and if you are producing a commodity, which I consider a
hard good that can last 60 to 70 years, it's tough right now," Bronner said.
If he doesn’t even know the definition of a commodity then I wonder about his guy. A commodity is a product that doesn’t have a quality differentiation. That is they are all the same with respect for quality. It has nothing to do with how long it lasts. Commodities are usually priced the same across the market, as there is nothing to differentiate one from the other to justify a difference in prices. Any good, product, or service can become a commodity.
July 2009
"There has been too much money invested in this for it not to succeed," said Muscle Shoals Mayor David Bradford.
Could be read as we are chasing bad money. No there is no such thing as too big to fail, but this is coming from the one of the guys who thinks economic development is spending $800,000 of tax money to put in a chicken restaurant. Which in my opinion the chicken deal is in place to bail out a city attorney’s partner from a bad property investment. There is a lack of transparency in the chicken deal for anyone to know the facts though.
July 2009
"I'm disappointed there are not 1,800 jobs today, but I do know we have 100 jobs we would not have had, and we will see substantial employment at that plant in the next 24 months." Macke Mauldin
All I can say here is you got 7 months.
July 2009
Bradford points out National Alabama is in better position than other mega-industrial projects in the Southeast that were announced in 2007. "Look at Toyota in Mississippi and the steel mill in south Alabama," Bradford said. "One is on hold and one is in mothballs."
Really now let’s compare. The steel mill’s grand opening is today I believe. Toyota is finishing their plant and plan on producing the more fuel efficient Corolla instead of the SUV Highlander (smart business plan). Both of these seem to me to better investments than railcars at this point. “Although production of new railcars should pick up starting in 2011 — more because shippers need certain car types rather than from overall demand rising enough to soak up idled equipment — FTR looks for a surplus overhang in 2013, at the end of its five-year forecast range, to still be 341,000 units”. I suspect the railcars that are built will not be built in NA. NA have yet to get a contract and companies that contract for railcars to be built will do so with companies they already have a relationship with. The problem is nobody wants to be held accountable. Just smile say we messed this one up but we will try and do better next time. Don’t lie to us like we are stupid, everything’s fines here folks keep on moving. The railcar plant hopefully can find another industry to come in and use the building and maybe some of the equipment. I would like to see some kind of sustainable energy or electric car product produced because that is the wave of the future. I doubt mass production of railcars will ever happen in Barton though. Falcon1234 you need to be teaching at 8:21 on a Friday morning not on the TD forums. You picked the right job though because economics is not for you if you think that both of the companies will thrive. It is probably hard for you to admit that 625 million that’s part of your retirement fund may be what we call a sunk cost. Wise will do well they have established contracts with 2 of the biggest can producing companies in the world. National Alabama though like I said before Wise it is not.
Not that it's any of your business, but I've been off sick for several days for surgery that could not be postponed again. Guess what? You'll find this hard to believe, but teachers get breaks just like real people. Again, have not been able to work for several days. Hope to be back on Monday, if that's okay with you.
quote:Originally posted by ShoalsNeeds2Know:
First off Smoothie if you look at the timeline below in 2006 National Steel Car (NSC) was already laying off workers because of dropping demand. The world didn’t produce as many railcars in 2006 as they did in 2005. It turns out 2005 was the peak year of railcar production. Second the NSC CEO knew he needed to decrease costs if his company was going to be competitive. The union wages the Canadian plant was paying workers would not allow the company to compete with producers that had moved to Mexico. Essentially this National Alabama (NA) plant was a union buster because NA was going to use non-union workers in the plant. So in 2007 NA was announced even after worldwide production of railcars was already falling. With a reported 500,000 idle railcars around the North American continent (NA was to produce between 8,000 and 10,000 a year) and the planned shutting of several coal fire power plants around the US due to environmental concerns and the still sputtering economy the railcar industry may not need new railcars for the considerable future.
Timeline
July 2007 National Steel Car announces 350 million dollar loan from RSA to build railcar plant National Alabama in Barton.
March 2009 an additional 275 million dollars loaned to National Steel Car to purchase equipment for National Alabama.
August 2009 National Steel Car CEO resigns as CEO of National Alabama.
September 2010 RSA obtains full control of National Alabama.
There has not been much transparency pertaining to this NA deal. Including the 625 million from RSA there have been reports of this company was given 640 acres of land, 40 million dollars of incentives from the state government, and 18 million dollars from a half-cent sales tax increase that went to SIDC. Of course they got the land and the 625 from RSA, I don’t know about the other incentives because like I said there is no transparency and they are using taxpayer dollars and state employee retirement pension money. I would like to know how much of the 625 million went into actually building the NA Barton plant and how much National Steel Car lined their pockets with? Also would like to know the status about the other incentives? Also would like to know about the loans and ownership agreements during the time span? Posted below are the comments from some of the so-called leaders responsible for this.
July 2009
"The whole world has stopped, and if you are producing a commodity, which I consider a
hard good that can last 60 to 70 years, it's tough right now," Bronner said.
If he doesn’t even know the definition of a commodity then I wonder about his guy. A commodity is a product that doesn’t have a quality differentiation. That is they are all the same with respect for quality. It has nothing to do with how long it lasts. Commodities are usually priced the same across the market, as there is nothing to differentiate one from the other to justify a difference in prices. Any good, product, or service can become a commodity.
July 2009
"There has been too much money invested in this for it not to succeed," said Muscle Shoals Mayor David Bradford.
Could be read as we are chasing bad money. No there is no such thing as too big to fail, but this is coming from the one of the guys who thinks economic development is spending $800,000 of tax money to put in a chicken restaurant. Which in my opinion the chicken deal is in place to bail out a city attorney’s partner from a bad property investment. There is a lack of transparency in the chicken deal for anyone to know the facts though.
July 2009
"I'm disappointed there are not 1,800 jobs today, but I do know we have 100 jobs we would not have had, and we will see substantial employment at that plant in the next 24 months." Macke Mauldin
All I can say here is you got 7 months.
July 2009
Bradford points out National Alabama is in better position than other mega-industrial projects in the Southeast that were announced in 2007. "Look at Toyota in Mississippi and the steel mill in south Alabama," Bradford said. "One is on hold and one is in mothballs."
Really now let’s compare. The steel mill’s grand opening is today I believe. Toyota is finishing their plant and plan on producing the more fuel efficient Corolla instead of the SUV Highlander (smart business plan). Both of these seem to me to better investments than railcars at this point. “Although production of new railcars should pick up starting in 2011 — more because shippers need certain car types rather than from overall demand rising enough to soak up idled equipment — FTR looks for a surplus overhang in 2013, at the end of its five-year forecast range, to still be 341,000 units”. I suspect the railcars that are built will not be built in NA. NA have yet to get a contract and companies that contract for railcars to be built will do so with companies they already have a relationship with. The problem is nobody wants to be held accountable. Just smile say we messed this one up but we will try and do better next time. Don’t lie to us like we are stupid, everything’s fines here folks keep on moving. The railcar plant hopefully can find another industry to come in and use the building and maybe some of the equipment. I would like to see some kind of sustainable energy or electric car product produced because that is the wave of the future. I doubt mass production of railcars will ever happen in Barton though. Falcon1234 you need to be teaching at 8:21 on a Friday morning not on the TD forums. You picked the right job though because economics is not for you if you think that both of the companies will thrive. It is probably hard for you to admit that 625 million that’s part of your retirement fund may be what we call a sunk cost. Wise will do well they have established contracts with 2 of the biggest can producing companies in the world. National Alabama though like I said before Wise it is not.
I was just messing with you falcon. Sorry to hear that you are sick get well soon. I do think Florence has the best high school around the area. Keep up the good work.
quote:Originally posted by ShoalsNeeds2Know:
First off Smoothie if you look at the timeline below in 2006 National Steel Car (NSC) was already laying off workers because of dropping demand. The world didn’t produce as many railcars in 2006 as they did in 2005. It turns out 2005 was the peak year of railcar production. Second the NSC CEO knew he needed to decrease costs if his company was going to be competitive. The union wages the Canadian plant was paying workers would not allow the company to compete with producers that had moved to Mexico. Essentially this National Alabama (NA) plant was a union buster because NA was going to use non-union workers in the plant. So in 2007 NA was announced even after worldwide production of railcars was already falling. With a reported 500,000 idle railcars around the North American continent (NA was to produce between 8,000 and 10,000 a year) and the planned shutting of several coal fire power plants around the US due to environmental concerns and the still sputtering economy the railcar industry may not need new railcars for the considerable future.
Timeline
July 2007 National Steel Car announces 350 million dollar loan from RSA to build railcar plant National Alabama in Barton.
March 2009 an additional 275 million dollars loaned to National Steel Car to purchase equipment for National Alabama.
August 2009 National Steel Car CEO resigns as CEO of National Alabama.
September 2010 RSA obtains full control of National Alabama.
There has not been much transparency pertaining to this NA deal. Including the 625 million from RSA there have been reports of this company was given 640 acres of land, 40 million dollars of incentives from the state government, and 18 million dollars from a half-cent sales tax increase that went to SIDC. Of course they got the land and the 625 from RSA, I don’t know about the other incentives because like I said there is no transparency and they are using taxpayer dollars and state employee retirement pension money. I would like to know how much of the 625 million went into actually building the NA Barton plant and how much National Steel Car lined their pockets with? Also would like to know the status about the other incentives? Also would like to know about the loans and ownership agreements during the time span? Posted below are the comments from some of the so-called leaders responsible for this.
July 2009
"The whole world has stopped, and if you are producing a commodity, which I consider a
hard good that can last 60 to 70 years, it's tough right now," Bronner said.
If he doesn’t even know the definition of a commodity then I wonder about his guy. A commodity is a product that doesn’t have a quality differentiation. That is they are all the same with respect for quality. It has nothing to do with how long it lasts. Commodities are usually priced the same across the market, as there is nothing to differentiate one from the other to justify a difference in prices. Any good, product, or service can become a commodity.
July 2009
"There has been too much money invested in this for it not to succeed," said Muscle Shoals Mayor David Bradford.
Could be read as we are chasing bad money. No there is no such thing as too big to fail, but this is coming from the one of the guys who thinks economic development is spending $800,000 of tax money to put in a chicken restaurant. Which in my opinion the chicken deal is in place to bail out a city attorney’s partner from a bad property investment. There is a lack of transparency in the chicken deal for anyone to know the facts though.
July 2009
"I'm disappointed there are not 1,800 jobs today, but I do know we have 100 jobs we would not have had, and we will see substantial employment at that plant in the next 24 months." Macke Mauldin
All I can say here is you got 7 months.
July 2009
Bradford points out National Alabama is in better position than other mega-industrial projects in the Southeast that were announced in 2007. "Look at Toyota in Mississippi and the steel mill in south Alabama," Bradford said. "One is on hold and one is in mothballs."
Really now let’s compare. The steel mill’s grand opening is today I believe. Toyota is finishing their plant and plan on producing the more fuel efficient Corolla instead of the SUV Highlander (smart business plan). Both of these seem to me to better investments than railcars at this point. “Although production of new railcars should pick up starting in 2011 — more because shippers need certain car types rather than from overall demand rising enough to soak up idled equipment — FTR looks for a surplus overhang in 2013, at the end of its five-year forecast range, to still be 341,000 units”. I suspect the railcars that are built will not be built in NA. NA have yet to get a contract and companies that contract for railcars to be built will do so with companies they already have a relationship with. The problem is nobody wants to be held accountable. Just smile say we messed this one up but we will try and do better next time. Don’t lie to us like we are stupid, everything’s fines here folks keep on moving. The railcar plant hopefully can find another industry to come in and use the building and maybe some of the equipment. I would like to see some kind of sustainable energy or electric car product produced because that is the wave of the future. I doubt mass production of railcars will ever happen in Barton though. Falcon1234 you need to be teaching at 8:21 on a Friday morning not on the TD forums. You picked the right job though because economics is not for you if you think that both of the companies will thrive. It is probably hard for you to admit that 625 million that’s part of your retirement fund may be what we call a sunk cost. Wise will do well they have established contracts with 2 of the biggest can producing companies in the world. National Alabama though like I said before Wise it is not.
You make a really good argument that is difficult to disagree with. I'm still hoping you are wrong. I do know Wise alloys has seen a marked increase in building transportation products orders in the past month or so. I hope this will be the same in the railcar industry.