This is the Y2K of medical billing and it is a for real crisis.  If the ICD-10 program is not delayed the costs will be enormous and the billing reciepts further delayed.  The program to do this billing can cost up to $50K depending on how many license you need.

It is ridiculous and uses obscure coding that is not necessary.

The current ICD-9 book is almost three inches thick.  The ICD-10 book has yet to be released but we are told it contains volumes of codes. Nightmares are real.

 

Yes, one can never tell when they might need a code such as:

E018 - injury involving playing a musical instrument

E805 - hit by a rolling stock, railway train or part

E840.0 - accident in a spacecraft

E845.9-Accident involving spacecraft - launching accident

E847 - Accidents involving cable cars - not running on rails

 

It goes on and on and on with pages of detail that mean little to nothing to the actual care of the patient, but is used for determining whether the insuarnce will pay, and how the government collects their statistics.

But before anyone blames the current administration, this monstrosity began in 1983 with the World Health Organization.  the US version has over 68,000 codes.  There is no reason the current ICD-9 coding regimen cannot be used, but like all things the government can't leave well enough alone.

So it is bad that it falls right at the same time as the Obamacare fiasco, BUT it does not have anything to really do with it, so I can't blame him for it.

Originally Posted by teyates:

But before anyone blames the current administration, this monstrosity began in 1983 with the World Health Organization.  the US version has over 68,000 codes.  There is no reason the current ICD-9 coding regimen cannot be used, but like all things the government can't leave well enough alone.

So it is bad that it falls right at the same time as the Obamacare fiasco, BUT it does not have anything to really do with it, so I can't blame him for it.

 

From Wikipedia:

The deadline for the United States to begin using Clinical Modification ICD-10-CM for diagnosis coding and Procedure Coding System ICD-10-PCS for inpatient hospital procedure coding is currently October 1, 2014.[11] The deadline was previously October 1, 2013.[12][13] All HIPAA "covered entities" must make the change; a pre-requisite to ICD-10 is the adoption of EDI Version 5010 by January 1, 2012.[14] Enforcement of 5010 transition by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), however, was postponed by CMS until March 31, 2012, with the federal agency citing numerous factors, including slow software upgrades.[15] The implementation of ICD-10 has been subject to previous delays. In January 2009, the date was pushed back by two years, to October 1, 2013 rather than a prior proposal of October 1, 2011.[16]

Even though the deadline for ICD-10 has been pushed back repeatedly, CMS recommends that medical practices take several years to prepare for implementation of the new code set.[17] The basic structure of the ICD-10 code is the following: Characters 1-3 (the category of disease); 4 (etiology of disease); 5 (body part affected), 6 (severity of illness) and 7 (placeholder for extension of the code to increase specificity) .[18] Not only must new software be installed and tested, but medical practices must provide training for physicians, staff members, and administrators. They will also need to develop new practice policies and guidelines, and update paperwork and forms. For convenience, practices may also create "crosswalks" that will convert their most frequently used ICD-9 codes to the ICD-10 equivalents.

 

dire and teyates are telling us all how horrible this program is.. what they're not telling you.. is the REST OF THE WORLD uses this code.. and  has for almost 20 years. since about 1993. now, since the doctors are being forced to update, it's all obama's fault and they need more time to implement the program. as if 20 years wasn't enough.

Crash and Logical have problems with research and reading comprehension.

 

Nowhere, did I blame Obama directly.  I placed the blame on government bureaucracy and its inherent ability to configure a thing until it is almost incomprehensible, even to those in charge of application.  For example, the IRS can easily give multiple opinions about the same tax questions.

 

Yes, the ICD-10 codes are used worldwide and have been for decades.  Per Wiki, "The code set allows more than 14,400 different codes and permits the tracking of many new diagnoses. The codes can be expanded to over 16,000 codes by using optional sub-classifications."

 

Its our federal government that expanded the subsets to 155,000 from about 70,000.  Thus, ensuring a complete muck of the mess.  Teyates deals with the system regularly.  I'd refrain from insulting one who has first hand knowledge and is paid per this system. 

 

An elephant is a mouse designed to government specifications -- old WWII joke.

Crash,

If you read the material I posted, and will look into it, it has been in use but NOT this version of it.  ICD-10 has been used in the other parts of the world but it is the smaller version without the additonal codes AND it is not used for reimbursement in other parts of the world, only for gathering statistics.

The only problem with change is that the current system works fine for the most part.  The coding issues will added just another delay in reimbursement to an already bloated beauracratic system.  Imagine if you had to keep up wioth every drink you served at the bar in order to get paid for it.  You will need to document with a 6 digit number the type of alcohol used, then specify what type of glass it was served in, tell them whther it was dark or light colored, add an additonal code if ice was used, then add two more digits to specify if a soft drink was added and wther it was light or dark colored.  On top of this use a system that makes little sense.  For instance if the rum dark you add a 1, but if it was whiskey you add a 3.

I don't mind coding, but when the coding manuals and programs cost $1000 and the pcomputer program up to $25K, it gets a little ridiculous.

QD,

I did not blame this on any party.  If you read what I said, I did not blame the curreent administration.  I just said it was making the situation worse.  This a beauracratic faux pas that is adding increased demands on an already burdened system and is doing nothing to provide better care for patients.  I apologize for clouding the waters, but for the medical community this is a looming issue that will be a PITA.  And as to the number of codes??...Non one knows for absolutely sure, since as of last week we were told the manaul and or software is not even available yet, and it is supposed to be fully in use by October.

QD,

For instance.

In the ICD-10,

W61.01XA- bitten by parrot, first encounter

I don't know if this means it is the first encounter with the doctor or with the parrot !

P.S. there are 26 codes related to parrot injury!!!

 

In addition there is  acode for injury during water skiing, with a specific code for water skis being on fire....how often have you seen that?

It is too funny.  We are waiting on the code books just so we can go thru to see how much we have been missing.  They should be available soon, and will make good reading at bedtime.

"blindly cheer for bigger gov't and more gov't interference no matter the case or situation"??? LOL You're completely offbase. Also, teyates is not the only person who knows about ICD10.
 
Originally Posted by Kenny Powers:

I think I will take the word of the guy who actually works in the medical profession and deals with this system regularly as opposed to a bunch of guys that blindly cheer for bigger gov't and more gov't interference no matter the case or situation.

 

Logical,

 

I posted about the codes. In knee jerk repetition, the lefties jumped in to defend the program.  A few to support Obama, even though I didn't mention him.  Even, when a doctor, familiar with the program stated even more facts, the progressives still took the bureaucracy's side, supporting my statement about power tripping progressives. 

Originally Posted by direstraits:

Logical,

 

I posted about the codes. In knee jerk repetition, the lefties jumped in to defend the program.  A few to support Obama, even though I didn't mention him.  Even, when a doctor, familiar with the program stated even more facts, the progressives still took the bureaucracy's side, supporting my statement about power tripping progressives. 

_______________

i posted the correct information about the codes, contradicting the rt. wingnut lies. i even linked to the website with the correct information. the doctor even admitted he's not seen the code, yet.. and the resident 'accountant' has access.. hell, he probably wrote it.. he's the most important man in the world.  and now, he's going to tell you what the democrats think. yep, that's about it.

You posted about a subject you knew nothing about just so you could rant about "lefties". That seems to be your favorite pastime on these forums. It's tiresome and silly.
 
The ICD9 coding system is old and has become increasingly difficult to update.over the years. It was never static. It had some major updates several years ago when the codes were greatly expanded. That change caused issues too, just like this one will. But, just like that one, things will settle down again as people get used to the new codes.
 
The new codes are much better designed than the previous ones and should be able to last for quite while. They can be updated far more easily and more logically than ICD9.
 
ICD10 is not government gone crazy. There are valid, rational reasons for making the change  and the benefits outweigh the temporary problems that will arise.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Logical,

 

I posted about the codes. In knee jerk repetition, the lefties jumped in to defend the program.  A few to support Obama, even though I didn't mention him.  Even, when a doctor, familiar with the program stated even more facts, the progressives still took the bureaucracy's side, supporting my statement about power tripping progressives. 

 

 

LΦΦK, I hate to keep pointing out things you right-wingers apparently are never going to grasp.

   When tasks providing for the health and welfare to the citizenry is entrusted to the good sense of professionals, such as  doctors and healthcare facilities fails miserably, the government will step in and provide health coverage for the people and a list of codes for this greedy affected group to support arguments that they should be reimbursed.

   If doctors and healthcare facilities don’t like the codes; it is your own invention. Blame yourselves and deal with it.

   Maybe after some period of probation a remedy will be found for your suffering.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

 

LΦΦK, I hate to keep pointing out things you right-wingers apparently are never going to grasp.

   When tasks providing for the health and welfare to the citizenry is entrusted to the good sense of professionals, such as  doctors and healthcare facilities fails miserably, the government will step in and provide health coverage for the people and a list of codes for this greedy affected group to support arguments that they should be reimbursed.

   If doctors and healthcare facilities don’t like the codes; it is your own invention. Blame yourselves and deal with it.

   Maybe after some period of probation a remedy will be found for your suffering.

Maybe we can get these doctors to step in and PROTECT THE BORDERS OR PASS A BUDGET!!!

lΦΦy here now Charles, Obama has presented a budget but you repubs are too busy playing with fire because you are dedicated to the proposition that ignorance is a virtue and won't vote to pass it.

 

The border you say...you better hug a Mexican today.

I used the codes as an example of how government vastly complicates medical services, which results in much more costly service.  Teyates, in other threads, noted that admin costs filing for compensation from both government and insurance companies were a major cost factor,  From past audit experience at hospitals, I found this to be true, as well. 

 

I expected Squirrelly Dawg and Crash to support government, no matter what.  Didn't expect the other lefties to be so knee jerk protective. 

Originally Posted by logical:
You posted about a subject you knew nothing about just so you could rant about "lefties". That seems to be your favorite pastime on these forums. It's tiresome and silly.
 
The ICD9 coding system is old and has become increasingly difficult to update.over the years. It was never static. It had some major updates several years ago when the codes were greatly expanded. That change caused issues too, just like this one will. But, just like that one, things will settle down again as people get used to the new codes.
 
The new codes are much better designed than the previous ones and should be able to last for quite while. They can be updated far more easily and more logically than ICD9.
 
ICD10 is not government gone crazy. There are valid, rational reasons for making the change  and the benefits outweigh the temporary problems that will arise.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Logical,

 

I posted about the codes. In knee jerk repetition, the lefties jumped in to defend the program.  A few to support Obama, even though I didn't mention him.  Even, when a doctor, familiar with the program stated even more facts, the progressives still took the bureaucracy's side, supporting my statement about power tripping progressives. 

 

_______________________________________________
Remember, as Teyates pointed out, no other government uses this system for anything but statistics gathering.  And, as I pointed out, the worldwide one used about 16,000, not 155,000 codes.

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

lΦΦy here now Charles, Obama has presented a budget but you repubs are too busy playing with fire because you are dedicated to the proposition that ignorance is a virtue and won't vote to pass it.

 

The border you say...you better hug a Mexican today.

______________________________
Every Obama budget died in the Senate with over 90 senators voting No!

Originally Posted by Quaildog:

 

LΦΦK, I hate to keep pointing out things you right-wingers apparently are never going to grasp.

   When tasks providing for the health and welfare to the citizenry is entrusted to the good sense of professionals, such as  doctors and healthcare facilities fails miserably, the government will step in and provide health coverage for the people and a list of codes for this greedy affected group to support arguments that they should be reimbursed.

   If doctors and healthcare facilities don’t like the codes; it is your own invention. Blame yourselves and deal with it.

   Maybe after some period of probation a remedy will be found for your suffering.

_____________________________________________________
Squirrelly dawg, so do you want a TSA agent to check your prostate and the mailman to remove you appendix!  Good luck with that!

 

The codes were government imposed!  Surely, even you can comprehend that!

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