new study suggests some people grossly overestimate their political knowledge.

Where are the days where moderate, level headed, sensible Democrats and Republicans made compromises and Americans ALL flourished!----L. Cranston

I believe that even The Shadow knows that sometimes when Republicans compromise all they get are broken promises and knives in the back. Right now, Trump shouldn't even be worrying about building a wall. Dems promised in 1986 they would fund border security if only Reagan would sign an amnesty bill; they lied.

Again, Dems promised three times more budget cuts for each dollar of taxes if Reagan would sign off on tax increases; they lied. The first Bush compromised with Dems for 2X cuts for each dollar of taxes; Dems lied again!

I might also point out that that sometimes when both parties compromise, the public really gets reamed. The reason Trump is president is the fact that in the 90s both parties decided that it was a good thing to send most of the smokestack industries overseas and that everyone could get rich by manipulating the value of paper assets and real estate. That really worked out in 2008 didn't it. Former blue collar Dems went into the Republican primaries and now we have Trump as president.

Thanks, guys. The article didn't need that much proof to back it up.

Dire isn't telling all the facts. I'll bet each and every one of those tax cuts was followed by a raise in taxes after the cuts didn't work. I know for a FACT Reagan had to raise taxes, after his cuts, because the revenue didn't show up. Again, that's FACT. Seems like Bush1 got a lot of bad press, from his base, after promising 'no new taxes', then raising taxes.

L. Cranston posted:

Thanks, guys. The article didn't need that much proof to back it up.

Dire isn't telling all the facts. I'll bet each and every one of those tax cuts was followed by a raise in taxes after the cuts didn't work. I know for a FACT Reagan had to raise taxes, after his cuts, because the revenue didn't show up. Again, that's FACT. Seems like Bush1 got a lot of bad press, from his base, after promising 'no new taxes', then raising taxes.

Lamont,  I suggest you research before commenting.  It would reduce your embarrassment.

When inaugurated, Reagan inherited a nation with 16 tax brackets — ranging from marginal rates of 14 percent to 70 percent. By 1989, that was down to two brackets — with marginal rates of 15 percent and 28 percent.  Plus, the inflation indexing that pushed taxpayers into a higher bracket was removed.

The increased revenue I posted was income tax revenue, only.

The taxes Reagan increased the Highway Revenue Act of 1982 was a temporary increase in the federal gas tax from 4 to 9 cents. This is a user fee tax, which most conservatives agree with as the revenue generally went to roads and infrastructure. Another was a cigarette tax (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985.) Tax increases, but should not be confused with the income tax.

 The one income tax change did not come until the Tax Reform Act of 1986 also provided for the elimination of the distinction between long-term capital gains and ordinary income. The Act mandated that capital gains be taxed at the same rate as ordinary income, raising the maximum tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% from 20%. Prior to the ruling, capital gains were either taxed at lower rates than ordinary income under an alternative tax or received a partial exclusion from tax under the regular rate schedule. 60% of capital gains on assets held for at least six months were excluded from taxable income. Thus, the marginal tax rate on net long-term capital gains was only 40% of the marginal tax rate on other forms of income under the previous tax laws.

https://www.investopedia.com/t...taxreformact1986.asp

This income tax increased revenue for 1987 to 1988 during the Reagan presidency.

L. Cranston just might be as dumb as Crash.......un huh--

Kraven posted:

L. Cranston just might be as dumb as Crash.......un huh--

The Shadow knows.

L. Cranston posted:

Thanks, guys. The article didn't need that much proof to back it up.

Dire isn't telling all the facts. I'll bet each and every one of those tax cuts was followed by a raise in taxes after the cuts didn't work. I know for a FACT Reagan had to raise taxes, after his cuts, because the revenue didn't show up. Again, that's FACT. Seems like Bush1 got a lot of bad press, from his base, after promising 'no new taxes', then raising taxes.

Yes, Reagan raised taxes after the 1981 tax cuts and before the 1986 tax bill. I might point out that the increase in payroll taxes were the "Clinton surplus" which was borrowed money (Paying the VISA bill with the MasterCard!) and that even with both the Bush and Clinton tax increases that everyone's tax bills were still lower than before 1986. I might also point out that the surplus for Medicare will soon disappear and Social Security's about 2034 and then benefits will drop.

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Republican, oh hell no! My beliefs are more libertarian and both parties are nothing but a collection of semi-socialist corporatists arguing over how much control goobermint should have over the means of production and property. I might also note that while the first Bush, Clinton, and Ol'bama tinkered on the edges of the 1986 tax law, they never tried to completely abolish it and go back to the more punitive tax structure that preceded the Reagan era. I also should point out the problem with the budget isn't taxation, it's spending. There just isn't anyway that we can to keep the "Great Society" programs going with more taxation without tanking the economy and even the less stoopid republicans haven't figured that out. Then there are the really retarded democrats who now think that the magic wand of Democratic Socialists (Mutually exclusive terms!) can give them free healthcare. I suspect that the best thing that can happen now is that divided goobermint continues and we can hope that no one kills the golden goose (private sector) with more regulations and taxes. If the spending doesn't stop or at least slow down enough for the private sector to grow enough to pay for all the "free stuff", then "stuff" will really impact on the rotary air mover.

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

direstraits posted:

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

Dire, I suggest you research before commenting.  It would reduce your embarrassment. I used google and read the first couple of articles.

direstraits posted:

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

As is always the case, there usually is a big lie hidden in the "real truth". Most of that 1982 "biggest tax hike ever" was the rescission of future lower tax brackets and not the actual raising of taxes. That is exactly like calling a smaller budget increase than originally planned a budget cut. There were increases of business fees and the reduction of business loophole though along with a gas tax increase. Where the real tax increase was in the increase of payroll taxes that all sides agreed upon to push the inevitable Social Security and Medicare crunch into the future.

Stanky posted:

direstraits posted:

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

As is always the case, there usually is a big lie hidden in the "real truth". Most of that 1982 "biggest tax hike ever" was the rescission of future lower tax brackets and not the actual raising of taxes. That is exactly like calling a smaller budget increase than originally planned a budget cut. There were increases of business fees and the reduction of business loophole though along with a gas tax increase. Where the real tax increase was in the increase of payroll taxes that all sides agreed upon to push the inevitable Social Security and Medicare crunch into the future.

Facts don't contain lies. Facts don't pick sides.  Screaming Republicans cut taxes without giving ALL the FACTS is being very deceitful.

LC said, Facts don't contain lies. Facts don't pick sides.

Kraven posted:

LC said, Facts don't contain lies. Facts don't pick sides.

So you're saying the FBI, CIA, most of the Dems in congress,

Rinos, the Clintons, spies, FISA judges, the MSM, CNN, NBC, CBS

MSNBC, ABC and plenty more where these came from,,,,

Don't lie..?? and their facts have been all lies..

You need to calm down, stop screaming, eat another sandwich---

 

Lets get your answer straight. You're saying the FBI, CIA, most Democrats, some Republicans, the Clintons, spies (foreign? domestic? ) FISA judges, the Media, and all the other outlets are lying and only a handful of Republicans and Trump tell the truth? Is that truly your stance?

Kraven posted:

I don't recall the part about only a handful of Republicans and

Trump tell the truth? So now I include you as a liar as well---

But you already knew the fact, if you're liberal you're lying ---- 

Ok, so who's telling the truth to you? No Republicans? All other Republicans? Trump? Is Trump telling you the truth? Please, be clear, who exactly is telling you the truth?

L. Cranston posted:

Stanky posted:

direstraits posted:

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

As is always the case, there usually is a big lie hidden in the "real truth". Most of that 1982 "biggest tax hike ever" was the rescission of future lower tax brackets and not the actual raising of taxes. That is exactly like calling a smaller budget increase than originally planned a budget cut. There were increases of business fees and the reduction of business loophole though along with a gas tax increase. Where the real tax increase was in the increase of payroll taxes that all sides agreed upon to push the inevitable Social Security and Medicare crunch into the future.

Facts don't contain lies. Facts don't pick sides.  Screaming Republicans cut taxes without giving ALL the FACTS is being very deceitful.

 

Yes, facts are facts, except when from politicians and their camp followers. If I might cite an article from the liberal magazine Slate about the 1982 Tax bill: 

"On the other hand, most of Dole’s tax increase was actually the partial repeal of future tax cuts that had been enacted in 1981 but had not yet taken place. Despite Dole’s bill, taxpayers received more than $375 billion in tax cuts over the following three years. (This did not deter Dole’s supply-side critics, led by Jack Kemp, from characterizing his bill as a record-setting tax boost.) Whether repeal of a future tax cut counts as a tax increase is a metaphysical question. If the answer is “no,” Clinton’s tax increase is larger."

https://slate.com/news-and-pol...ease-in-history.html

Perhaps you should tell the Treasury Department. Facts don't have a side, they're just facts.

Revenue effects of major tax bills since 1968. Table 2. Page 3.

https://www.treasury.gov/resou...s/WP81-Table2013.pdf

L. Cranston posted:

direstraits posted:

L. Cranston posted:

It's funny to see the Republicans scramble to cover for the posts they made earlier. The tax bills passed in 82 and 84, together, constituted the largest tax increase in peacetime, in US history. At no point in the history of America  have Republican tax breaks done what Republicans said they'd do and today is no different.

 

Provenance for this claim, please!

Dire, I suggest you research before commenting.  It would reduce your embarrassment. I used google and read the first couple of articles.

IOW, can't produce the evidence. 

L. Cranston posted:

Perhaps you should tell the Treasury Department. Facts don't have a side, they're just facts.

Revenue effects of major tax bills since 1968. Table 2. Page 3.

https://www.treasury.gov/resou...s/WP81-Table2013.pdf

Not sure about their methodology, but looking at the goobermint's revenue figures:

or

https://www.usgovernmentrevenu...USb_20s1li011lcn_F0f

Except for the recession caused by the Fed wringing out inflation, I would say that revenue grew over the Reagan era. But I guess with enough political "what if" assumptions from the politicians who asked for the Treasury report, anything can happen.